America's Gun Violence

unsung

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Unsung, you are missing the point.

The AR-15 is a deadlier weapon than hunting rifles for killing lots of people at close quarters- quickly and efficiently.

The AR-15 is not as strong a weapon for hunting- it's not a strong performer killing things long distance.

Point being: why have guns like the AR-15 available to the general public when their design is for killing humans and... it's very effective at doing so?

I've never denied that, so I really don't understand why this point has been drug on so long.

I'll also maintain, because the facts do back my statement up, that targeting the AR15 is pretty pointless. It is used in less than 1% of shootings, in fact two years ago in Chicago out of 500+ murders only one was attributed to any type of rifle.

See if you guys really wanted less shootings you'd go after things like poverty, the war on drugs, education, etc. the fact that you focus on shutting down legal gun shops, pistol grips, legal open carry, and drum magazines tell me you are arguing with emotions and not logic. You can't stop me from buying these items so it enrages you, even though my acts are perfectly legal. You focus your attention on items that are so minor that your case is really humorous.

Let's focus on the real issue, let's help people find meaning in their lives.

JonnyPistachio

Ok, ok, just hold on here. No need to insult Rambo. He da man.

unsung

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRkvg_LuZvk

Hmmm, catchy. I am beyond done taking this forum seriously. Carry on, brotha, I've got dove to shoot and hunting reports to pay attention to! "Ye haw, hyuk, hyuk, hyuk"

Gee. Really?

And here I thought you might have something to say about my counter to your 'deadbolt rifle is just as... no, in fact, it's more dangerous than the AR-15'.

And I also thought that you might have wanted to say something about rgambs' counter to your 'only Rambo shoots from the hip ya dumbass' quip (not to mention you might have had to address the youtube contribution showing the AR-15 kickin' a little ass on some pond being fired from the hip and, if we're being honest, proving it's effectiveness over the 'typical' hunting rifle).

But, as I've alluded to a couple of times now... the tougher items tend to get ignored by you.

If I could take a few steps backwards, I recognized an attempt at introducing levity with one of your responses (a poke at east Texas I think?)... so I recognize there's a decent guy I am corresponding too. This discussion would be a lot more beneficial if you wouldn't, as rgambs put it... "claim to have exclusive knowledge over liberals." It's disrespectful and this is why you might be facing some 'subtle' hostilities in the last page or two.

I have shot thousands of rounds through my AR's, never once have I "shot from the hip", but I can certainly say it is not more accurate.

I also follow many elite training institutes from around the country, I can't say I've seen "shooting from the hip" as part of their curriculum.

On edit: I truly have come to despise this forum format.

Dance, dance! Shooting from the hip occupies a smaller personal space and requires less time to level the barrel. Tactical advantages. You know this, just like you know that for the average psychopath a high capacity magazine provides an opportunity for more shots fired in less time. Yet I always see lame ass arguments that they jam frequently, and a practiced psycho could fire more shots with standard magazines and smooth reload technique, Fred Astair would be proud of that argument. Elite training institutions hardly cater their curriculum to mass murderers so I don't see how that is relevant.

Can you honestly look in the mirror and tell yourself that a 22 long rifle with tube mag has the same mass murder capacity as an ar-15 with drum mag?

I'm going to stop responding to stupid statements that are in your last paragraph. Those words haven't exited my mouth or my fingers.

And again, to you and Thirty, no legitimate training institute teaches shooting from the hip. You know why? Because like you see the gangbangers shooting their pistols sideways it is less accurate. Seriously your evidence is a guy that is shooting into a pond! I guess you two must know everything.

You know what our soldiers do when the bad guys come at them? Do they shoot from the hip? No, because the untrained bad guys do crap like that. They have time to properly level off and use their sights to end their threat.

Come around to the real world and stop believing what you see on Rambo as the proper way to shoot a firearm.

Those words maybe haven't exited you verbatim but you have continually stated your opposition to limiting high capacity magazines and other tactical improvements like shortened stocks and pistol grips.
Trained soldiers working as a team is comparable to a psycho civilian shooting up a crowded mall? The reason thirty and I pursue this idiotic line of debate is because you gunners REFUSE to budge a fucking inch. If you can't be forced to admit reality we will have to expose you to everyone else so they can judge your statements for themselves. If you could simply admit that pistol grips, short stocks, and drum magazines provide a possible tactical advantage we could move to something less moronic, but there is no way you will admit to something obvious if it will weaken your position even slightly.
The QuickDraw comment was idiotic, yes, but no more so than you two and your staunch defense of all forms of weapon upgrades.

How many shootings have used high capacity magazines? I can think of one and that's alleged use.

unsung

JonnyPistachio said:

Ok, ok, just hold on here. No need to insult Rambo. He da man.

He doubled in size!

unsung

Another viewpoint. Not entirely outside the realm of being a possibility, there were photos posted in Chicago that ISIS (supporters) is there.

From the Illinois State Rifle Association:

THE IMMORALITY OF GUN CONTROL IN THE AGE OF ISIS

The beheading of a second U.S. journalist this week by the ISIS terrorist network serves as a stark reminder that these guys mean business. What their business is exactly and how they'll carry it out remains to be seen. Nevertheless, these guys have threatened to attack us here at home and, judging by the brutality they've dished out in Syria and Iraq, any attack here in the U.S. will unleash unspeakable horror.

To date, we've seen ISIS bury innocent citizens alive, crucify elderly men, sell women into sexual slavery, and even behead little children. These barbarians will stop at nothing to incite fear and force submission among those they target for attack. Americans should be prepared to witness multiple ISIS assaults on very soft targets full of vulnerable citizens. ISIS would like nothing more than to be able to stream live video across social media of the ritualistic beheading of American school children or the stoning of American women - much like we've seen come out of the country that was once known as Iraq.

Even more frightening is the realization that authorities would be unable to head off an ISIS attack on American soil. Our porous southern border combined with the decimated state of our intelligence services leaves the nation a sitting duck for ISIS. Keep in mind that hostages have no value to ISIS whereas heaps of American corpses would. Rest assured that an ISIS attack would have a horrifying impact on our nation's psyche. This is indeed the new American reality, folks.

To the gun control movement, all the concern voiced over the ISIS threat is nothing but background noise. Despite widespread security worries held by law enforcement and citizens alike, the leaders of the gun control movement are relentlessly pushing forward with their campaign of domestic disarmament. From the President of the United States on down, leftist politicians continue to promise enactment of deep restrictions on private firearm ownership.

Imagine that. Although it's abundantly clear that the armed citizen is our last line of defense against an ISIS attack, agenda-driven politicians and social activists are working harder than ever to disarm law-abiding American citizens. It almost seems that the gun control movement is stepping up its pace to take your guns away in advance of an ISIS assault.

One of the primary purposes of a federal government is to defend its citizens against enemies - both foreign and domestic. When circumstances lessen the government's ability to meet that obligation, citizens must be free to step up and provide for their own defense. For the government to actively thwart the citizen's capacity for self defense - especially through political schemes like gun control - is not only unconstitutional, but immoral as well.

fife

unsung said:

Another viewpoint. Not entirely outside the realm of being a possibility, there were photos posted in Chicago that ISIS (supporters) is there.

From the Illinois State Rifle Association:

THE IMMORALITY OF GUN CONTROL IN THE AGE OF ISIS

The beheading of a second U.S. journalist this week by the ISIS terrorist network serves as a stark reminder that these guys mean business. What their business is exactly and how they'll carry it out remains to be seen. Nevertheless, these guys have threatened to attack us here at home and, judging by the brutality they've dished out in Syria and Iraq, any attack here in the U.S. will unleash unspeakable horror.

To date, we've seen ISIS bury innocent citizens alive, crucify elderly men, sell women into sexual slavery, and even behead little children. These barbarians will stop at nothing to incite fear and force submission among those they target for attack. Americans should be prepared to witness multiple ISIS assaults on very soft targets full of vulnerable citizens. ISIS would like nothing more than to be able to stream live video across social media of the ritualistic beheading of American school children or the stoning of American women - much like we've seen come out of the country that was once known as Iraq.

Even more frightening is the realization that authorities would be unable to head off an ISIS attack on American soil. Our porous southern border combined with the decimated state of our intelligence services leaves the nation a sitting duck for ISIS. Keep in mind that hostages have no value to ISIS whereas heaps of American corpses would. Rest assured that an ISIS attack would have a horrifying impact on our nation's psyche. This is indeed the new American reality, folks.

To the gun control movement, all the concern voiced over the ISIS threat is nothing but background noise. Despite widespread security worries held by law enforcement and citizens alike, the leaders of the gun control movement are relentlessly pushing forward with their campaign of domestic disarmament. From the President of the United States on down, leftist politicians continue to promise enactment of deep restrictions on private firearm ownership.

Imagine that. Although it's abundantly clear that the armed citizen is our last line of defense against an ISIS attack, agenda-driven politicians and social activists are working harder than ever to disarm law-abiding American citizens. It almost seems that the gun control movement is stepping up its pace to take your guns away in advance of an ISIS assault.

One of the primary purposes of a federal government is to defend its citizens against enemies - both foreign and domestic. When circumstances lessen the government's ability to meet that obligation, citizens must be free to step up and provide for their own defense. For the government to actively thwart the citizen's capacity for self defense - especially through political schemes like gun control - is not only unconstitutional, but immoral as well.

to be honest, this is some paranoid writing. first off, we all agree that the US military has weapon that the American people would never be able to get. if the US military can't stop ISIS with all the weapons at their disposal than no American citizen is going to stop ISIS.

this article for me is just scare mongering

unsung

Our government can't control the border, or they refuse to, either way anything is possible. There was a guy in Houston wearing an ISIS flag on his clothing yesterday. They are here, at what capacity we don't know.

Gern Blansten

When examining global political issues I often turn to the Illinois State Rifle Association.

No wait....I never do that

unsung

It isn't a global issue. Another valuable post.

Gern Blansten

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20141003/news/141009335/

No one killed....this time

Gern Blansten

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/07/indiana-doctor-married-less-day-kills-wife-self/16845393/

Another gun nut....

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/07/indiana-doctor-married-less-day-kills-wife-self/16845393/

Another gun nut....

Maybe those were just sound bites, but geezuz that 9-11 operator wasn't at her best to put it nicely.

And how many times did this responsible gun owner argue against gun reform until making the transition to (as you put it) gun nut?

Gern Blansten

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/07/indiana-doctor-married-less-day-kills-wife-self/16845393/

Another gun nut....

Maybe those were just sound bites, but geezuz that 9-11 operator wasn't at her best to put it nicely.

And how many times did this responsible gun owner argue against gun reform until making the transition to (as you put it) gun nut?

He's an anesthesiologist with a gun dealers permit....he killed his brand new wife and then himself with a gun rather than using rational methods.

That's a gun nut

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I agree with your assessment- it's accurate.

My point was: kooks such as these form a portion of the pro-gun argument. And when they do things such as these, the pro-gun side quickly disassociates from them.

Every gun is an accident or incident waiting to happen. Every responsible gun owner is law-abiding until they commit an offence.

Gern Blansten

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I agree with your assessment- it's accurate.

My point was: kooks such as these form a portion of the pro-gun argument. And when they do things such as these, the pro-gun side quickly disassociates from them.

Every gun is an accident or incident waiting to happen. Every responsible gun owner is law-abiding until they commit an offence.

agreed....I'm guessing he got his dealer's permit in order to meet some kind of ordinance/law for the number or type of weapons that he was purchasing and/or maintaining.

hedonist

Gern Blansten said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/07/indiana-doctor-married-less-day-kills-wife-self/16845393/

Another gun nut....

Maybe those were just sound bites, but geezuz that 9-11 operator wasn't at her best to put it nicely.

And how many times did this responsible gun owner argue against gun reform until making the transition to (as you put it) gun nut?

He's an anesthesiologist with a gun dealers permit....he killed his brand new wife and then himself with a gun rather than using rational methods.

That's a gun nut

"Using rational methods"? To kill himself and his wife? How, no matter the means, would that be considered rational?

Maybe he was just a fucking nut.

Gern Blansten

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/open-carry-enthusiast-robbed-at-gunpoint-i-like-your-gun-give-it-to-me/#.VDVNFQag1nU.facebook

Hilarious...

Gern Blansten

hedonist said:

Gern Blansten said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/07/indiana-doctor-married-less-day-kills-wife-self/16845393/

Another gun nut....

Maybe those were just sound bites, but geezuz that 9-11 operator wasn't at her best to put it nicely.

And how many times did this responsible gun owner argue against gun reform until making the transition to (as you put it) gun nut?

He's an anesthesiologist with a gun dealers permit....he killed his brand new wife and then himself with a gun rather than using rational methods.

That's a gun nut

"Using rational methods"? To kill himself and his wife? How, no matter the means, would that be considered rational?

Maybe he was just a fucking nut.

I guess I meant "rather than solve the problem using rational methods"

bad verbiage

unsung

So if he would have used a hammer you'd have been ok with it?

Gern Blansten

unsung said:

So if he would have used a hammer you'd have been ok with it?

no...but that doesn't change the fact that he was a gun nut and that he used a gun to murder

unsung

So you would have posted on the subject all the same, right?

I mean, if he had used a hammer. You'd have definitely let us know? Or would it not be sensationalist enough and not fit the agenda?

Gern Blansten

Well this thread is about "Gun violence" and I don't like to hijack threads (even my own.)

This one hit pretty close to home so it's very possible that I would have posted it...it's interesting because they had just been married that day. As soon as the guests left some major argument started (rumour has it that it was over a pre-nup) and the murder-suicide occurred.

Hammer, gun or knife it's a story that would have gotten headlines.

unsung

Gern Blansten said:

Well this thread is about "Gun violence" and I don't like to hijack threads (even my own.)

This one hit pretty close to home so it's very possible that I would have posted it...it's interesting because they had just been married that day. As soon as the guests left some major argument started (rumour has it that it was over a pre-nup) and the murder-suicide occurred.

Hammer, gun or knife it's a story that would have gotten headlines.

So then it really isn't about a gun, thanks for clearing that up.

Gern Blansten

unsung said:

Gern Blansten said:

Well this thread is about "Gun violence" and I don't like to hijack threads (even my own.)

This one hit pretty close to home so it's very possible that I would have posted it...it's interesting because they had just been married that day. As soon as the guests left some major argument started (rumour has it that it was over a pre-nup) and the murder-suicide occurred.

Hammer, gun or knife it's a story that would have gotten headlines.

So then it really isn't about a gun, thanks for clearing that up.

maybe....except he was still an anesthesiologist with a gun dealer license

That kind of sets the personality in my opinion

fife

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/open-carry-enthusiast-robbed-at-gunpoint-i-like-your-gun-give-it-to-me/#.VDVNFQag1nU.facebook

Hilarious...

wait up, i have been told that open carry is good and will protect people.

all i have to say is that, that responsible gun owner has now let someone who seems to not be a good guy have another gun.

Gern Blansten

fife said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/open-carry-enthusiast-robbed-at-gunpoint-i-like-your-gun-give-it-to-me/#.VDVNFQag1nU.facebook

Hilarious...

wait up, i have been told that open carry is good and will protect people.

all i have to say is that, that responsible gun owner has now let someone who seems to not be a good guy have another gun.

yep....if he was a conceal carry douche rather than a open carry douche he would still have his douchey gun

edit: for the record I am a conceal carry douche. I don't like to advertise my goods...mainly because I believe open carry could get you killed first

fife

Gern Blansten said:

fife said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/open-carry-enthusiast-robbed-at-gunpoint-i-like-your-gun-give-it-to-me/#.VDVNFQag1nU.facebook

Hilarious...

wait up, i have been told that open carry is good and will protect people.

all i have to say is that, that responsible gun owner has now let someone who seems to not be a good guy have another gun.

yep....if he was a conceal carry douche rather than a open carry douche he would still have his douchey gun

i wonder if this guy already got another gun. i am just waiting for someone to say that if only the cousin had a gun too then the robber who have been shot and killed.

Gern Blansten

fife said:

Gern Blansten said:

fife said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/open-carry-enthusiast-robbed-at-gunpoint-i-like-your-gun-give-it-to-me/#.VDVNFQag1nU.facebook

Hilarious...

wait up, i have been told that open carry is good and will protect people.

all i have to say is that, that responsible gun owner has now let someone who seems to not be a good guy have another gun.

yep....if he was a conceal carry douche rather than a open carry douche he would still have his douchey gun

i wonder if this guy already got another gun. i am just waiting for someone to say that if only the cousin had a gun too then the robber who have been shot and killed.

yep...if only a well regulated militia had been following then justice would have prevailed

CM189191

unsung said:

So if he would have used a hammer you'd have been ok with it?

The only thing that stops a bad guy with a hammer is good guy with a screwdriver...
http://time.com/3436848/uber-hammer-attack/
...I don't think I'm doing that right.

At any rate, if this were a gun, he would have lost a lot more than an eye!

goingtoverona

yeah guys, anyone that wants to be able to defend themselves is a douche and a nut. and why is that? well duh, obviously if you have a gun and are the victim of a crime, you're just gonna have a panic attack and kill all the innocent people around you while letting the bad guy get away. not only that, but in my hypothetical situations that I make up in my head, the criminal who accosts people never wants to hurt them. he always pats them on their butt and tells them to have a nice day after he accosts them. he only wants to hurt you if you try to defend yourself. duh guys
and I should really be taken seriously calling people nuts and douches because it shows a level of sophistication, maturity and professionalism that you just don't see nowadays.

just for the record, I think it's absolutely appalling that people think it's "hilarious" when other people are victims of crimes, just because they don't agree with you. that is so disturbing.