America's Gun Violence

fife

Gern Blansten said:

I can't believe how stupid people are. Tragic but how in the hell does a 9 year old with an Uzi benefit anything/anyone?

well she might have to defend herself from the cookie monster. you know he is packing heat.

the better question is how does a 9 year benefit anything from a gun?

rgambs

gotta defend that border! how they gonna take her to the bundy ranch if she can only handle a semi-auto, she would just get laughed out of town!
so sad...

unsung

Pretty stupid thing to do.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Pretty stupid thing to do.

Why? They're just enjoying their freedom and the rights afforded to them by the constitution. This is par for the course in Gunsville- home of the champions.

This forum has a dozen or more gun threads with countless scenarios that, to me, fall into the pretty stupid thing to do category.

unsung

I wouldn't let a 9 year old operate a chainsaw either.

I can't remember anyone anywhere saying that a 9 year old should be able to have a full auto Uzi.

But go ahead and keep making things up that make no sense, it's par for the course for the anti-gun crowd.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

I wouldn't let a 9 year old operate a chainsaw either.

I can't remember anyone anywhere saying that a 9 year old should be able to have a full auto Uzi.

But go ahead and keep making things up that make no sense, it's par for the course for the anti-gun crowd.

Do you want the sense? Do you want sense? You can't handle the sense! (A Few Good Men reference)

The USA is the most armed country in the world. The USA features 97 guns per 100 people. This is the highest ownership rate in the world- by far. The second most armed country is Serbia at 58.2 guns per 100 people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

In 2013, the USA lost 30 people a day to gun violence.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/31/president-obama-gun-control-push

But that doesn't include all the accidents and suicides. That rate, per capita, is 10.3 per 100,000. For comparison's sakes, Germany has 1.24 per 100,000 and Canada has 2.38 per 100,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

What's my point? My point is that if there was an epidemic of chainsaw murders in your country, you can safely bet that there would be laws implemented to curb the trend. Sure, chainsaw enthusiasts would be upset ("I wanna cut shit down! Why is my freedom compromised because some idiots are chopping people? I'm a good chainsaw owner. My chainsaw has never cut anybody"); however, the chainsaw industry is not entrenched within government and society enough to combat the most basic, logical, common sense approach to dealing with the problem as it manifests itself.

You can defend guns all you want, but the bottom line is it would be asinine to argue against the most simple and revealing correlation between your gun ownership rates and the corresponding gun death rates.

So, assuming you are not asinine, it would appear you want your guns and you are prepared to accept the deaths that come with them.

fife

unsung said:

I wouldn't let a 9 year old operate a chainsaw either.

I can't remember anyone anywhere saying that a 9 year old should be able to have a full auto Uzi.

But go ahead and keep making things up that make no sense, it's par for the course for the anti-gun crowd.

I think what this story means to me is that there are stupid people like this girls parents. people who believe that gun ownership is just a right but not a responsibility.

PJ_Soul

Take the 9 year old to the firing range and let her play with automatic weapons (because guns RAWK!) and traumatize her and end a life. Yeeeehaw!!

unsung

That why I said it was a stupid thing to do.

I trained my girlfriend for two hours straight with the proper handling of a firearm before I'd let her load it.

JonnyPistachio

unsung said:

I wouldn't let a 9 year old operate a chainsaw either.

I can't remember anyone anywhere saying that a 9 year old should be able to have a full auto Uzi.

But go ahead and keep making things up that make no sense, it's par for the course for the anti-gun crowd.

I agree with you on this one-- that this 9 year old story doesnt not help with anti-gun crowd, because its just stupid and irresponsible on too many accounts. It shouldve never happened of course.
However, it does certainly add to the oh shit we have too many guns and too many stupid people argument, which simply equates to more people killing people on accident with guns. I'm not arguing anything other than (my usual) that we've gone too far-- the gun culture-- and there's no turning back. Bleak outlook for both sides in my opinion.

PJ_Soul

But wait. The NRA is fully in support of 9 year olds or children of any age being trained with any kind of firearm. It may sound stupid to us, but from what I know, the gun advocates stand behind what those parents and little girl were doing there that day.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

But wait. The NRA is fully in support of 9 year olds or children of any age being trained with any kind of firearm. It may sound stupid to us, but from what I know, the gun advocates stand behind what those parents and little girl were doing there that day.

Firmly behind.

goingtoverona

yuppers, I want my guns and I accept the deaths that come with them. just like I accept the deaths that come with cars, alcohol, tobacco, steak knives, etc.
as far as the little girl is concerned, I point my finger at the instructor. should have known the recoil power of the gun and never put it in her hands in the first place. parents are probably gun ignorant and left it to the instructor to make all the decisions.

unsung

PJ_Soul said:

But wait. The NRA is fully in support of 9 year olds or children of any age being trained with any kind of firearm. It may sound stupid to us, but from what I know, the gun advocates stand behind what those parents and little girl were doing there that day.

Please provide a link.

oceaninmyeyes

According to the video with the first post on this shooting, the range owner will allow five year olds to fire 22's. As a Mom, not on my watch. And this whole tragedy makes me want to throw up. That little girl will never, ever get over this.

PJ_Soul

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

But wait. The NRA is fully in support of 9 year olds or children of any age being trained with any kind of firearm. It may sound stupid to us, but from what I know, the gun advocates stand behind what those parents and little girl were doing there that day.

Please provide a link.

Hmm. What to post, what to post? So many options.... how about this one? http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/03/1961871/after-child-shooting-nra-conference-peddles-guns-for-kids/

unsung

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

But wait. The NRA is fully in support of 9 year olds or children of any age being trained with any kind of firearm. It may sound stupid to us, but from what I know, the gun advocates stand behind what those parents and little girl were doing there that day.

Please provide a link.

Hmm. What to post, what to post? So many options.... how about this one? http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/03/1961871/after-child-shooting-nra-conference-peddles-guns-for-kids/

Your statement said any age, any firearm. That link doesn't back up your statement.

fife

unsung said:

That why I said it was a stupid thing to do.

I trained my girlfriend for two hours straight with the proper handling of a firearm before I'd let her load it.

the problem i have is that story tends to make me believe that there are some people who don't train people well and that this can lead to bigger issues.

Just a simple question as I don't know. are there strict guild lines for training people on guns or is it different depending on the trainer?

PJ_Soul

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

But wait. The NRA is fully in support of 9 year olds or children of any age being trained with any kind of firearm. It may sound stupid to us, but from what I know, the gun advocates stand behind what those parents and little girl were doing there that day.

Please provide a link.

Hmm. What to post, what to post? So many options.... how about this one? http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/03/1961871/after-child-shooting-nra-conference-peddles-guns-for-kids/

Your statement said any age, any firearm. That link doesn't back up your statement.

Well this is pleasant: http://skydamon.com/gt.html

And here it seems that they don't mind a 9 year old playing with an Uzi... they just don't want any wimpy instructors helping them do it. http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/08/27/nra-calls-for-tougher-gun-instructors/

Stickman12

goingtoverona said:

yuppers, I want my guns and I accept the deaths that come with them. just like I accept the deaths that come with cars, alcohol, tobacco, steak knives, etc.
as far as the little girl is concerned, I point my finger at the instructor. should have known the recoil power of the gun and never put it in her hands in the first place. parents are probably gun ignorant and left it to the instructor to make all the decisions.

I would have to say I agree with this statement the most. In the professional world, there are inherent risks that are risk assessed and control measures are put in place to mitigate the risks. Examples are ear plugs, safety glasses, a defined shooting position, etc..
Being a professional business and having professional instructors, it should have been known the recoil of that firearm and the force necessary to control it. It looks like the instructor used a technique to help the child by putting his left hand underneath the firearm and his right hand behind the child. I would have imagined if given a hypothetical situation, that there would have been additional safegaurds in place. Im not here to give answers as to what those safegaurds should be as I am not a professional in that field, but even I know that more could have been in place to prevent this tragedy. Condolences to this mans family, may he rest in peace, and pray that this young girl can overcome this.