Lottery or No Lottery

Zod

Father Hubbard said:

3. If there is GA, and it is a lottery to get tix, it should also be a lottery for entry, as someone mentioned, like Bruce does. If we are going to be fair, lets be fair.

Except it's done for a different reason for Bruce shows. With Bruce shows the whole floor is GA. The lineup procedure is technically to determine who gets into the pit section up front.

It feels kind of silly for PJ because everyone who has a pass is already in the GA pit section. Bruce's system is more geared towards deciding who goes in the pit. If PJ did it would be to determine who gets rail. It seems rather silly to need such a system for PJ shows as everyone with a ticket already has access to the GA pit section. The positive side effect of the Bruce system is that they handle the numbering and random draw for the starting number on their own (no crazy fan made lists). So there's that fairness aspect to it, but I think that's a positive side effect, it's still meant to decide who gets in the pit section.

U2 also does a pit type section up front. I've seen them use two methods. One was first come first serve which I've seen work and fail. It failed in Vancouver '02 because the line got so long it wrapped around itself, so the end was parallel with the front. As soon as the opened the doors the people at the back just went in. The Vertigo tour was random draw. They scanned your ticket when you went it and if your ticket won you and a guest got pit passes. The last tour was back to first come first serve, but I was in Edmonton instead of Vancouver and the lineup was pretty rational and sane.

If PJ made it one drawing per show and did a random draw (behind the scenes) for the GA tickets, you wouldn't know you were GA until you picked up your tickets (thus also making life difficult for scalpers). That could deal with the lineup issues a bit. Would people lineup before they knew what their tickets were?

PJinIL

I did vote yes for the lottery, though not a fan of the way seniority seating is handled. My tix in Dallas were on the floor, but at 5'6" it was a tough view. In Seattle, I was lower bowl behind the floor seats, which I assume are "lower 10c seats", but I had a much better time being able to see even though wasn't nearly as close. In my perfect world, they would lottery the shows and then you could log in and reserve your seats (or at least section) on a 1st come first served basis given a start time. Too complicated for reality, but would be really great.

All 10c should get the chance to get front row, no matter the seniority. There's something to be said for long-time 10c members, but there also needs to be some consideration given to retaining NEW 10c members. There are probably new 10c members who are just as hardcore, long-time Pearl Jam fans that deserve a shot at a close-up show.

I got 2/2 of the shows in 2013. (Dallas, Seattle) and it is unfortunate that some got totally shut out. It would be great to check the shows you would be willing to travel to and a box saying the number of shows you want to attend. Then more tix would be available instead of people 'wasting' tickets. I still can't wrap my head around that one, but i know it happens. Must be nice to have $200 to flush down the toilet just to up the chances that you'll get to go to a show.

RedMosquito02

red mos said:

F5 is so stressful.

Yeah, but what a fuckin RUSH!!

josevolution

I voted yes to lottery , i'd rather just put in for the shows i wan't to see if i don't win that's ok i'm done caring about not getting tickets to a concert .....I've seen 37 shows that's plenty for a lifetime i just don't get amped up as i did in the past ....

jfconnorjr

I got an idea.... We should have to rank the shows in order of priority we can attend. Have a show maximum of two per tour or block of shows, whatever. Based on seniority, you are put in a cue and see how it sorts out. You can only go to two shows and they try to accommodate everyone. If there are multiple nights (NYC) then they can give you only one night and shake it up so it is not all old members or new.

Or even better, don't tell us the rules just have us put in for what we want and we get what we get.

tempo_n_groove

PJ_Soul said:

jmuscatello said:

Question about the seniority seating...
I'm high 400K number too... just the way it is, not complaining. I tried for only one show last tour (Portland) and got it, which was great. Our seats were back of floor. Loved the show, sound was great, and was just glad to be anywhere in there, but I'm 5'2" and really couldn't see much of the stage/band at all. GA might have been worse, don't know. So for next time, wouldn't I really be better off skipping the 10c lottery and try to do better through TM or secondary market? At least in that case I'd know where I'd end up, and I could avoid the 5'2" on the floor problem even if I have to pay more....?

I just think that 10C should not make any 10C tix floor seats. I don't think I've read that anyone was particularly stoked to get those. 10C tix are supposed to make the best seats available to members. Seats on the floor behind the pit are the worst seats after higher up behind the stage.

Loved my Philly 2 floor seats. I'm 6' and could see just fine and it was the closest I've been to them.

I'll take a floor seat any day!

Zod

jfconnorjr said:

I got an idea.... We should have to rank the shows in order of priority we can attend. Have a show maximum of two per tour or block of shows, whatever. Based on seniority, you are put in a cue and see how it sorts out. You can only go to two shows and they try to accommodate everyone. If there are multiple nights (NYC) then they can give you only one night and shake it up so it is not all old members or new.

They are never going to allocate based on seniority. They never have and they never will. Due to the demand for tickets and the amount of fan club members, it's basically a big FU to anyone who's joined 10c since 2000. Ever since they used seniority to determine seating the amount of older fans dropping memberships is very small. Thus no one ever really gains seniority. If it was a queue based on seniority then members who have joined in the past 10 years would never get tickets in a lot of the busier markets.

As for priority they already do priority. The only people going to 5 or 6 shows are the ones who selected shows other people did want (or weren't willing) to travel to. They already max you at 1 show per city (if there are mulitple nights). If you're choosing high demand cities, then you're not going to get choices 3 or 4 etc. because other people chose it as their first pick.

I think the current system is pretty fair. Like I've mentioned before consolidating it to one lottery per show would prevent people from missing out on their first pick (when chosing one show as both 1 and 2 pick) and getting trumped by someone who split their first two picks between different shows.

They can't accomodate everyone. There aren't enough tickets. It's why everyone argues about how to allocate them because they want to increase the odds they get em. Changing the system doesn't help the issue of insufficient tickets. If you live in one of this big cities in the Northeast (or Seattle) it's going to be hard to get tickets no matter how they get doled out.

2-feign-reluctance

I've paid my dues, reward me! Hahaha!!! )

rival9500

I used to get to the mall at 4 am to get in line for tickets. I got great seats this way. I feel like extra effort should be rewarded, like making time to be there for on sale and f5. Again, I got burned completely last year while others got multiple shows. Oh yeah, before anyone blames me for picking shows wrong...my 1st 2 picks out of 8were Pittsburgh reserved and Pittsburgh GA as my 2nd.

Zod

rival9500 said:

I used to get to the mall at 4 am to get in line for tickets. I got great seats this way. I feel like extra effort should be rewarded, like making time to be there for on sale and f5. Again, I got burned completely last year while others got multiple shows. Oh yeah, before anyone blames me for picking shows wrong...my 1st 2 picks out of 8were Pittsburgh reserved and Pittsburgh GA as my 2nd.

There's nothing wrong with the pick, it just meant more people wanted Pittsburgh tickets than tickets were available. No allocation system is going to solve the problem when demand exceeds supply. The only way to guarantee tickets is to go to a smaller market show where supply exceeds demand like Spokane, Portland, Calgary, Charlottesville etc...

I'd struggle with F5 now. I don't think I could getaway with f5'ing all day at work. I'd have to burn a vacation day to pull it off now. It's less appealing to me, allthough I never missed out on tickets using it. I think people forget why f5 ended. The first number of years it meant trying untl the server load lightened up enough to get some orders though, it would take hours. For 2011 Canada Tour the website failed to the point it crashed. No orders were getting through. It imploded. They used TM to do the 10c sales to recover, and then I guess it's been lotto now.

For a small operation like the ten club that only needs the resources to handle high server loads once a year, it's most likely not financially feasible to create a service that could handle to load. TM probably pushes millions into their equipment to keep that thing from crashing during ticket sales.

PJfanwillneverleave1

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

Sitting on a computer for 5 hours, hitting the F5 key, is just FUCKING ridiculous.

Good times those days of F5.

Fuck all those scalpers that now beat the system to get our tix.

jdopj

It is a fact that the GA option has increased membership and increased demand. My friend and I have really good numbers, we would use our tickets to take friends, wives, girlfriends. With the GA, some of those people have gotten their own memberships. If we are doing it many others are. There are the core people in "the jamily" that find ways to manipulate the system, ie transferring their awesome number tix to others in the "jamily". So it's happening and that door should be closed. One lottery to get tickets, another one after the fact to see who gets GA

MayDay10

jdopj said:

It is a fact that the GA option has increased membership and increased demand. My friend and I have really good numbers, we would use our tickets to take friends, wives, girlfriends. With the GA, some of those people have gotten their own memberships. If we are doing it many others are. There are the core people in "the jamily" that find ways to manipulate the system, ie transferring their awesome number tix to others in the "jamily". So it's happening and that door should be closed. One lottery to get tickets, another one after the fact to see who gets GA

Exactly. my wife has an account with a poor number as do 2 of my friends who I go with. Typically we would use my "better than terrible" number only and I would score some shows for us. Now we are all planning on entering the lottery that we only need a pair or 2 for.

Your last sentence IMO sums up the fairest and most equal way to do this. GA as a separate stand-alone option/lottery just opens the floodgates and anyone who has an extra $20 or so laying around and any desire to increase their chances of scoring GA for a show or shows (and face it, many have a huge desire) can just plop down another membership and have a few more cracks at it. It lowers the odds for everyone if many people do this, but makes in nearly impossible for a straight up person with 1 membership.
If people stood a good chance of scoring back of the floor or back corner or less than stellar seats with extra entries, then it wouldn't be desirable (as any extra tickets would be much harder to get rid of)

Its a fantasy to think people wont manipulate the system. We saw how monstrous and self-serving people were in lines in the fall. IMO GA for these shows is not a good idea for the USA anyways. We are way too self absorbed and entitled here. In Europe, Canada, and SA there is more of a community aspect.

rival9500

Zod said:

rival9500 said:

I used to get to the mall at 4 am to get in line for tickets. I got great seats this way. I feel like extra effort should be rewarded, like making time to be there for on sale and f5. Again, I got burned completely last year while others got multiple shows. Oh yeah, before anyone blames me for picking shows wrong...my 1st 2 picks out of 8were Pittsburgh reserved and Pittsburgh GA as my 2nd.

There's nothing wrong with the pick, it just meant more people wanted Pittsburgh tickets than tickets were available. No allocation system is going to solve the problem when demand exceeds supply. The only way to guarantee tickets is to go to a smaller market show where supply exceeds demand like Spokane, Portland, Calgary, Charlottesville etc...

I'd struggle with F5 now. I don't think I could getaway with f5'ing all day at work. I'd have to burn a vacation day to pull it off now. It's less appealing to me, allthough I never missed out on tickets using it. I think people forget why f5 ended. The first number of years it meant trying untl the server load lightened up enough to get some orders though, it would take hours. For 2011 Canada Tour the website failed to the point it crashed. No orders were getting through. It imploded. They used TM to do the 10c sales to recover, and then I guess it's been lotto now.

For a small operation like the ten club that only needs the resources to handle high server loads once a year, it's most likely not financially feasible to create a service that could handle to load. TM probably pushes millions into their equipment to keep that thing from crashing during ticket sales.

I understand how this new system works. I just think it sucks that so many people got multiple shows and I get 0. If it is that important, people can make arrangements to take off work or take a half a day.

pjsteelerfan

rival9500 said:

Zod said:

rival9500 said:

I used to get to the mall at 4 am to get in line for tickets. I got great seats this way. I feel like extra effort should be rewarded, like making time to be there for on sale and f5. Again, I got burned completely last year while others got multiple shows. Oh yeah, before anyone blames me for picking shows wrong...my 1st 2 picks out of 8were Pittsburgh reserved and Pittsburgh GA as my 2nd.

There's nothing wrong with the pick, it just meant more people wanted Pittsburgh tickets than tickets were available. No allocation system is going to solve the problem when demand exceeds supply. The only way to guarantee tickets is to go to a smaller market show where supply exceeds demand like Spokane, Portland, Calgary, Charlottesville etc...

I'd struggle with F5 now. I don't think I could getaway with f5'ing all day at work. I'd have to burn a vacation day to pull it off now. It's less appealing to me, allthough I never missed out on tickets using it. I think people forget why f5 ended. The first number of years it meant trying untl the server load lightened up enough to get some orders though, it would take hours. For 2011 Canada Tour the website failed to the point it crashed. No orders were getting through. It imploded. They used TM to do the 10c sales to recover, and then I guess it's been lotto now.

For a small operation like the ten club that only needs the resources to handle high server loads once a year, it's most likely not financially feasible to create a service that could handle to load. TM probably pushes millions into their equipment to keep that thing from crashing during ticket sales.

I understand how this new system works. I just think it sucks that so many people got multiple shows and I get 0. If it is that important, people can make arrangements to take off work or take a half a day.

Just to play devils advocate, under the old system, people would miss out on a high demand show while other went to multiple less demand shows. It does suck to miss out on tickets, but supply does not meet demand in certain areas. Nothing will fix that.

shortstack

jdopj said:

There are the core people in "the jamily" that find ways to manipulate the system, ie transferring their awesome number tix to others in the "jamily". GA

10c does not allow that any longer. i believe that only happened for a short time anyway.

do you consider yourself part of "the jamily"?

rival9500

Still got shut out completely with big and small markets. My opinion will not change on this. I don't care what number you have. If you get 5 shows and I get 0 shows, that is not fair.

backseatLover12

rival9500 said:

Still got shut out completely with big and small markets. My opinion will not change on this. I don't care what number you have. If you get 5 shows and I get 0 shows, that is not fair.

And that's what it comes down to.

Zod

rival9500 said:

Still got shut out completely with big and small markets. My opinion will not change on this. I don't care what number you have. If you get 5 shows and I get 0 shows, that is not fair.

I still disagree. Most people use their 10c membership to get tickets to the shows most easily accessible to them (ie closest to them). Those would generally be their first/second priority, and then shows they would have to travel too (smaller markets) would be their other priorities. If the 10c restricted access to 1 show, what show do you think they're going to choose? Are they going to travel 1000km to go to Charlottesville or are they going to try and get tickets closer to home? (like Brooklyn, Philly, etc..?).

I don't think restricting it to one or two pairs makes a difference with the preference system. For you to get tickets for a show way down on your preference list, there's a serious lack of 10c members wanting to attend that show. Restricting the amount of shows would have negligible impact on shows in the Northeast USA, but would probably hurt sales in other markets (by not giving 10c members an incentive to travel).

The issue is still the same. There aren't enough tickets for most of the shows in the Northeast. There were only 2 or 3 I might of considered smaller market. It's definitely not like the NorthWest where demand was so low the 10c actually sent out a second offer email trying to get fan club members to buy tickets... lol. I think that was for Spokane, Portland, and Calgary (even Vancouver never ran out of 10c tickets). Those are what I consider small market.

jdopj

shortstack said:

jdopj said:

There are the core people in "the jamily" that find ways to manipulate the system, ie transferring their awesome number tix to others in the "jamily". GA

10c does not allow that any longer. i believe that only happened for a short time anyway.

do you consider yourself part of "the jamily"?

No I don't consider myself part of that group. The line police, etc.
I know they don't allow that anymore, it's because it was being taken advantage of.