Lottery or No Lottery

backseatLover12

prism said:

how does manipulating the lottery system = fair?

no one was buying bogus memberships with F5. with the lottery fans wanting a pair of tix to a show often score multiple pairs for their household, and scalp the extras. while many other longtime fans get completely shut-out

wonder how many pro-lottery 10clubber's spouse, cousins, kids, favorite barista, or dogs they purchased bogus memberships for have signed in on those accounts just to skew the poll numbers in this very thread?

And this is what I'm talking about when I said a lot of the tickets went to new members... Not actual new members but existing members upping their chance of winning by making bogus accounts for their family and pets. It's not speculation, I know many people who did it then gave extra 10c tix to their extended friends.

PJ_Soul

backseatLover12 said:

prism said:

how does manipulating the lottery system = fair?

no one was buying bogus memberships with F5. with the lottery fans wanting a pair of tix to a show often score multiple pairs for their household, and scalp the extras. while many other longtime fans get completely shut-out

wonder how many pro-lottery 10clubber's spouse, cousins, kids, favorite barista, or dogs they purchased bogus memberships for have signed in on those accounts just to skew the poll numbers in this very thread?

And this is what I'm talking about when I said a lot of the tickets went to new members... Not actual new members but existing members upping their chance of winning by making bogus accounts for their family and pets. It's not speculation, I know many people who did it then gave extra 10c tix to their extended friends.

If you know people who got memberships for their dogs you should report them to 10C.

backseatLover12

PJ_Soul said:

backseatLover12 said:

Get_Right said:

If you choose wisely, you should get your first choice show in the lottery, unless its LA, NYC or Boston.

And yeah I agree you cant base it on geography since PJ does not tour the entire country, its just not fair.

I think the lottery did exactly what it was supposed to do. Get 10c tix in the hands of more members. Id like to see those numbers. No system is perfect, the grass is always greener!

So, you're saying that there's some some kind of control in the lottery process, if I choose wisely. This is bullshit, the lottery is supposedly left up to complete chance. There is no ounce of control involved. I agree though, there's even less chance with those 3 cities. Why not give locals a chance to see the band in their area though? How is this wrong? And they did get tix into the hands of more members, but they are NEW members, often family members.

What is wrong with new members getting tickets?
Anyway, that WAS 10C's goal. To get as many different members to at least one show. Mission accomplished.

Read my last post. New members = bogus accounts meant to up the chances of getting tix for existing members. You're not really this gullible are you?

Mike D88

Yes to the lottery. I'm not a "touring fan," if I can make it to that one show I want, then I'm more than grateful.

PJ_Soul

backseatLover12 said:

PJ_Soul said:

backseatLover12 said:

Get_Right said:

If you choose wisely, you should get your first choice show in the lottery, unless its LA, NYC or Boston.

And yeah I agree you cant base it on geography since PJ does not tour the entire country, its just not fair.

I think the lottery did exactly what it was supposed to do. Get 10c tix in the hands of more members. Id like to see those numbers. No system is perfect, the grass is always greener!

So, you're saying that there's some some kind of control in the lottery process, if I choose wisely. This is bullshit, the lottery is supposedly left up to complete chance. There is no ounce of control involved. I agree though, there's even less chance with those 3 cities. Why not give locals a chance to see the band in their area though? How is this wrong? And they did get tix into the hands of more members, but they are NEW members, often family members.

What is wrong with new members getting tickets?
Anyway, that WAS 10C's goal. To get as many different members to at least one show. Mission accomplished.

Read my last post. New members = bogus accounts meant to up the chances of getting tix for existing members. You're not really this gullible are you?

Gullible? No. Naive? I don't think so. When I see some stats on how many people are doing this, I will then decide if it's enough people to bother caring about. Until then, I'm going to assume that it's not enough people that it should impact a ticketing system. Also, 10C does keep a close eye on multiple memberships in one household and other things. They actively do watch for warning signs of this kind of thing and act when they find it (and act when people report it).

MayDay10

So we are going to believe that everyone here will not do all they can to get a leg up?

I have seen quite a few pj merchandise "stores" on ebay from 10c members.

Do the math with a scalper. What would a pair of tickets go for? $800? $1000. These people work in networks in all cities and manipulate systems like this.

If I was a scumbag I could get 3 of my friends together in the 10c. Get multiple accounts, literally multiply our collective chances by 10 as well as diversify, attend numerous shows while selling excess pairs to pay for the tickets and extra memberships. Then cancel until next tour. I am certain there are people who will do this.

Having ga as a stand alone choice makes the climate ripe for this. I am all for lottery as long as ga is drawn as a lottery after the lottery. People shouldn't be able to get a few different 600xxx accounts specifically for ga. Just tickets.

PJ_Soul

Of course that's all possible, and few people even do it. But honestly I don't think most people bother. A close friend of mine owns a successful ticker brokerage (I'm afraid), and he says that fan club tix aren't very desirable at all to scalpers. Too much of a pain in the ass and too regulated by the fan clubs. According to him it's way easier to make money from public sale tix, so that's what scalpers focus on. Yeah sure, there are a handful of ill-gotten 10C tix for each show I'm sure. But they are absolutely not a focus in the scalping business, according to what could only be called an expert in the biz/racket.

backseatLover12

MayDay10 said:

So we are going to believe that everyone here will not do all they can to get a leg up?

I have seen quite a few pj merchandise "stores" on ebay from 10c members.

Do the math with a scalper. What would a pair of tickets go for? $800? $1000. These people work in networks in all cities and manipulate systems like this.

If I was a scumbag I could get 3 of my friends together in the 10c. Get multiple accounts, literally multiply our collective chances by 10 as well as diversify, attend numerous shows while selling excess pairs to pay for the tickets and extra memberships. Then cancel until next tour. I am certain there are people who will do this.

Having ga as a stand alone choice makes the climate ripe for this. I am all for lottery as long as ga is drawn as a lottery after the lottery. People shouldn't be able to get a few different 600xxx accounts specifically for ga. Just tickets.

Good point.

PJ_Soul

I do think a second lottery for GA would be alright. Could actually increase the chances for those who want GA a bit, since I think more people would abstain if they already knew they had seats and a decent number.

MayDay10

The scalpers among us are more of a problem. People want a leg up. The system provided in the last tour had an imbalance and opportunity for people to gain an advantage.

One ticket pool for each show followed by a random and evenly distributed by seniority drawing closes up every issue I have. There is no risk in maxing out your ping pong balls in a lottery for solely ga.... but if winning meant an 85% chance of getting "saddled" with 600xxx level reserved seats, it would be much less appealing.

PJ_Soul

Obviously I think seniority seating is bullshit, since I have a number in the high 400Ks and don't think anyone has more of a right than I do to get a shot at a good seat. Clearly, anyone with a lower number is likely to disagree.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

Obviously I think seniority seating is bullshit, since I have a number in the high 400Ks and don't think anyone has more of a right than I do to get a shot at a good seat. Clearly, anyone with a lower number is likely to disagree.

I have a low number and I realize things need to be switched up. I think what they should do is have some shows based on seniority dand other shows just totally random. Dmb used to do this and it was great.

jonsey30

Funny how more people voted Yes to the lottery, but most of the posts are people saying No, with a lot of PJSoul defending it.

I like the lottery. It worked out for Pittsburgh last year, and then I didn't get anything for Buffalo. But I still was able to buy through the public sale. 10C aren't the only tickets to these shows.

i_lov_it

My First two *10C* Shows I had Front Row seats...However in 2009 I was probably about Three Rows back due to being --->GA<--- and not getting there Quick enough.

northerndragon

The lottery is the way to go and GA IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't want it any other way. If your life revolves around being at the front and how 'senior' you are compared to others that is to bad, just relax and enjoy the show. I got there just before the show started and ended up 7 back from the rail on Stones side. My sister and I danced all show long and no one around us got agro, if we bumped someone we simply said sorry and they were cool.
It is a show you are supposed to enjoy the music not focus on where you 'deserve' to be. Some of you seriously sound like 5 year olds stomping your feet and yelling you didn't want the blue popsicle you wanted the red one, you still get a freakin popsicle chill out.

prism

what Drowned Out said.

with F5 there was no advantage to buy multiple memberships. because you knew within minutes (okay sometimes hours when the site crashed) if you scored 10c tix or they were sold out. it was first come/first serve....which is fair with everything else 10c sells.

on the other hand the lottery is bs... waiting around for a week to find out if you scored 10c tixs or if those tix went to member # 600somethings cousin's dog.

while i don't have numbers on those that bought extra memberships to get a leg up in the lottery. however, it does explain the GA tix that showed up on Stubhub last tour. there was also waaaay more tambourine bait (lil kids) that attended shows last tour...especially in GA.

the best ticketing system there's been was for the 2011 canadian tour. ticketmaster handled the 10c pre-sale...it took less than a minute to get tix and it was easy peasy...stress free.

Drowned Out said:

I voted no lottery. I found the whole process a hassle compared to the previous system…and this is coming from someone who spent his entire May long weekend F5’ing for Alpine Go back to the old system, and give in and use Ticketmaster for the damn sale so we don’t have to F5 for an hour (or weekend). I don’t see how the old system was any less fair. The people who complained they couldn’t buy them while working could take a half day off or have someone else log into their account for them. What do they do for other tickets that go on sale at 10AM?

I also had much better seats under the old system. People with high member numbers who want to get close still had 4 of the front rows for lottery. And if they wanted to get close without the lottery, they can go to smaller markets, like I did with Saskatoon in 05. My member number got me row 5 in Calgary in ’11…last year, I was seated, probably row 6 or 7 (can’t remember), but back about 12 floor rows worth of distance on the side. That’s a pretty big downgrade.

I prefer a seated floor (for PJ, anyway). Having to deal with the lineup people, and those who feel that no one sjhould move around on the floor is a joke. If there was still some semblance of a moshpit, I would be down with GA. But no….at LA2, during the final encore, I had a big group of tall-ass mofo’s move up, directly in front of me, with their two girlfriends holding up their Samsung notes in my site line. Rather than cause a confrontation, I moved to the side a bit, then up about 3-4 rows of people and nearly got lynched by a couple guys up there….no thanks (if the guy close-ish to the front, Mike’s side at LA night 2, who called me a douchebag about 37 times is reading this…. you were taller than me, and I offered to let the girls with you stand in front of me…like I told you then: you’re not going to get me to move by calling me a douche, douche). I don’t want to spend my whole show being annoyed at the people around me, confined to my tiny shoulder-to-shoulder footprint because everyone feels entitled to the spot they got when they first entered the building. I’d much rather have a designated spot and lose myself in the show. Or a proper pit where I can move up or go take a leak and get back close to the front without worrying about being punched in the back of the head.

Zod

prism said:

the best ticketing system there's been was for the 2011 canadian tour. ticketmaster handled the 10c pre-sale...it took less than a minute to get tix and it was easy peasy...stress free.

Yah the Canadian tour was the nail in the coffin for the F5 method. It completely destroy the 10c website. Previous F5's you'd eventually get through and get tickets, but that Canadian tour brought everything to a halt. The ticketmaster solution seemed like a last minute solution but it worked really really well.

As for people complaining about people buying fake memberships, I can't vouch for that, but I did talk my wife into becoming a 10c member So thats two memberships in the household.

i_lov_it

backseatLover12 said:

The lottery absolutely SUCKS when you request 2 shows and get shut out of both of them, while you have other people winning multiple shows. Either make it so everyone "wins" at least one show, or drop lottery altogether. That, is unfair. I got shut out last year while only requesting 2 shows.

Good Point!

my2hands

Never got shut out under the old system... and I still think the old F5 system was HORRIBLE!

lottery all day everyday

tempo_n_groove

Please don't change a thing. I LOVE this system. I haven't scored a GA yet but I'm cool with the lower bowl seating.

Other bands charge premiums for seating up front. Glad that PJ does not.

Loved that they split the North Americas too.