Lottery or No Lottery

MayDay10

My

northerndragon said:

The lottery is the way to go and GA IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't want it any other way. If your life revolves around being at the front and how 'senior' you are compared to others that is to bad, just relax and enjoy the show. I got there just before the show started and ended up 7 back from the rail on Stones side. My sister and I danced all show long and no one around us got agro, if we bumped someone we simply said sorry and they were cool.
It is a show you are supposed to enjoy the music not focus on where you 'deserve' to be. Some of you seriously sound like 5 year olds stomping your feet and yelling you didn't want the blue popsicle you wanted the red one, you still get a freakin popsicle chill out.

This has nothing to do with my issues with the lottery at all. In fact, my seniority really isnt great.

Mr. Zod above even corroborated my main issue. Their wife now is a vessel of a membership, so essentially they can now use the better 10c seniority # to go for reserved seats and the new membership number to go for GA, or both GA... that doubles their chances over me... unless I decide to make my wife a membership vessel to even it up and do the same. My sister would be willing to be a vessel as well, giving me a 50% edge over Mr. Zod and a 200% edge over some idiot who only chooses to have 1 membership

(not judging or making judgements, Zod, just using the example/hypothetical... wife could be a big fan)

derbydave

2 words...
TICKET BUDDY!!!

pjsteelerfan

Just to play devils advocate, I knew at least two people on the old system, when it was time to buy tickets, had multiple friends log in under the ID and try and buy tickets. So while it was not the same as buying multiple memberships, it still theoretically increased their chances for high demand shows.And I am positive they were not the only people to do that. And no matter how 10c would tweak the system, people are still going to try and find an advantage.

In the end, all this talk of "fairness" for most people is they really want what is best for themselves to get tickets, and could care less about anyone else. And it is only in places for high demand shows like New York that is really affected and what people are worried about.

MayDay10

pjsteelerfan said:

Just to play devils advocate, I knew at least two people on the old system, when it was time to buy tickets, had multiple friends log in under the ID and try and buy tickets. So while it was not the same as buying multiple memberships, it still theoretically increased their chances for high demand shows.And I am positive they were not the only people to do that. And no matter how 10c would tweak the system, people are still going to try and find an advantage.

In the end, all this talk of "fairness" for most people is they really want what is best for themselves to get tickets, and could care less about anyone else. And it is only in places for high demand shows like New York that is really affected and what people are worried about.

I have tried to get people to f5 tickets for me for various things. They always fail. They just didnt know how to do it, know the urgency, or how to start 2 minutes early, try to get ahold of the product screen and begin to f5 that, etc....

Anyways, like I said, Im cool with lottery if it is detached from GA. Therefore people will not want extra 600XXX numbers if they are going to have a very good chance of getting 600XXX level reserved seats.

Say there are 4,000 10c Pairs and 1,000 of them are GA... after the lottery they can choose 25% of the people who won tickets 0-50000, 25% from 50001-100000 and so on. When you originally put in for tickets you can be provided a drop down box to opt out of the lottery.

Noload

Ive won and lost in the lottery so I voted no but no strong opinion on that. The general admission thing is a different story. Im out numbered but I would like to see a mix of both types of shows...some old school seated floor and some GA for those who are joining the club today but still want to be front row next tour

pjsteelerfan

MayDay10 said:

pjsteelerfan said:

Just to play devils advocate, I knew at least two people on the old system, when it was time to buy tickets, had multiple friends log in under the ID and try and buy tickets. So while it was not the same as buying multiple memberships, it still theoretically increased their chances for high demand shows.And I am positive they were not the only people to do that. And no matter how 10c would tweak the system, people are still going to try and find an advantage.

In the end, all this talk of "fairness" for most people is they really want what is best for themselves to get tickets, and could care less about anyone else. And it is only in places for high demand shows like New York that is really affected and what people are worried about.

I have tried to get people to f5 tickets for me for various things. They always fail. They just didnt know how to do it, know the urgency, or how to start 2 minutes early, try to get ahold of the product screen and begin to f5 that, etc....

Anyways, like I said, Im cool with lottery if it is detached from GA. Therefore people will not want extra 600XXX numbers if they are going to have a very good chance of getting 600XXX level reserved seats.

Say there are 4,000 10c Pairs and 1,000 of them are GA... after the lottery they can choose 25% of the people who won tickets 0-50000, 25% from 50001-100000 and so on. When you originally put in for tickets you can be provided a drop down box to opt out of the lottery.

Trust me, I get what you are saying. The same argument was made back when sales were done on the sight, and right after the lottery last tour. I was just pointing out that people are always going to try and find a way to work the system. They did with the old way, and they do with the current. There have been many different ideas proposed to work the lottery. And in the end, I think most people just want what is best for themselves to win tickets and on top of that what is best for them to get them for high demand shows.

I think they could also look to limit the memberships to one per address, or one per family. But again, people will find a way around it.I think one thing they could do, is for the upcoming tour, say you had to be a member at least a year prior to the sale. Or 6 months. That could weed out people with multiple ticket memberships.

MayDay10

Those ideas are fine too. People will find ways to work the system, and IMO the way it has never been so ripe to manipulate as it was administered last tour.

I was one person, never cheated... and I never failed in getting tickets with F5.

But I am cool with the lottery, as long as they are looking to close these breaches/gaps. Maybe in order to put in for GA, you have had to be a member for at least a year, while reserved has no limit.

pjsteelerfan

MayDay10 said:

Those ideas are fine too. People will find ways to work the system, and IMO the way it has never been so ripe to manipulate as it was administered last tour.

I was one person, never cheated... and I never failed in getting tickets with F5.

But I am cool with the lottery, as long as they are looking to close these breaches/gaps. Maybe in order to put in for GA, you have had to be a member for at least a year, while reserved has no limit.

Same here, never had multiples try for me as well, and only lost one time with the F5 method. But I am not against the lottery either.

I do really like the idea that you had to be in the club for at least a year to try for GA. Maybe even make it 2, that would cut down on people buying them just to scalp. And I think you should have been in at least 6 months before you can try for any tickets.And they can always go ticket less like a lot of other acts so you have to enter with your credit card.

100 Pacer

PJ_Soul said:

Obviously I think seniority seating is bullshit, since I have a number in the high 400Ks and don't think anyone has more of a right than I do to get a shot at a good seat. Clearly, anyone with a lower number is likely to disagree.

Seniority is not a right, it's a privilege. The band chose to reward the membership base with seniority, and that seniority hasn't disappeared because of the ~200,000 active memberships a vast majority is in for the seniority and membership dues are a significant revenue stream for this organization. It's a win-win for all involved.

You're not being punished because you joined the fan club later, and you're also not being forced to pay membership dues. You've chosen to participate, you've chosen to take your place in line. The band decided long before you joined that keeping the older fans on board meant keeping them happy.

I have a significantly lower number than you, I am perfectly fine with the random row seating and perfectly fine with the lottery system. There should be more pressing issues than whether one scores tickets to see the band or not, or whether seniority affords you 5th row or 15th row or 25th row seating.

Father Hubbard

Make the whole floor GA, sell half the tix for something inflated, like $250-$300 with the markup going to charity. That'll spice things up.

link93

Correct me if I'm wrong but for people like me who live in places like Idaho that never get shows how could you manipulate the system with multiple memberships as you have to be there to pick up the tickets. So if I make 2 or 3 different memberships that person has to pick up the tickets and travel to the shows. Not very realistic unless a husband and wife have memberships and travel together to shows.

I guess in big cities that PJ always hit like NY people could take advantage and have a random family member or friend pick up the tix. This is not an option for me as I always have to travel for shows.

mcgruff10

Father Hubbard said:

Make the whole floor GA, sell half the tix for something inflated, like $250-$300 with the markup going to charity. That'll spice things up.

um no. I can gladly donate to the charity of my choosing if I want to. Why do you want to squeeze the fan out that has limited funds?

Walking the miles

Love both the Lottery and the GA. I'm with you on the ticket buddies system also PJ_Soul. I've never been let down by a 10c member, and have met many great people that way. A shout out to IM306245, hell_man_made, BH10628, and Drowned Out. Hope to see everyone in the Toronto area soon.

High Fidelity 2000

My wife and I both have accounts, #s in the 100,000s, and both had them long before we ever met. If we are actually both able to go to a show together again in the future (probably a rare thing if it ever happens) you can bet we are both going to put in for the lotto and hope for the best. If we both get drawn then someone else lucky will get a pair of our tickets. She's 4'11" so GA is not her friend anyway.

And...

PJ_Soul said:

Obviously I think seniority seating is bullshit, since I have a number in the high 400Ks and don't think anyone has more of a right than I do to get a shot at a good seat. Clearly, anyone with a lower number is likely to disagree.

I disagree. High numbers had their "right" to get a good seat for years when they offered up row1-2, 9-10 as random. That was your right. It was a small right, but it was a right.

Zod

Ticket buddies aren't bad. Before you were allowed multiple shows a lot of us did it all the time. The 98/00 tours were 1 show only. So you'd buy your pair, get your friend to be a 10c member and buy a pair to a different show.

It sort of feels like that with the current lottery again as the new system really prevents one person from seeing multiple popular shows. If you want to see multiple shows you have to pick a popular one and then some out of the way shows to go see.

I really liked the GA thing. I think it was the closest I've ever been at a PJ show. I figure I was about 3 people back from the stage in Vancouver. The not getting fan tickets for Seattle was pretty depressing. The tickets I got from TM were the worst tickets I've ever had to any show ever. So now some of us have come full circle and have once again talked the people into whom we frequent pj shows with to sign up for memberships.

jmuscatello

Question about the seniority seating...
I'm high 400K number too... just the way it is, not complaining. I tried for only one show last tour (Portland) and got it, which was great. Our seats were back of floor. Loved the show, sound was great, and was just glad to be anywhere in there, but I'm 5'2" and really couldn't see much of the stage/band at all. GA might have been worse, don't know. So for next time, wouldn't I really be better off skipping the 10c lottery and try to do better through TM or secondary market? At least in that case I'd know where I'd end up, and I could avoid the 5'2" on the floor problem even if I have to pay more....?

Father Hubbard

mcgruff10 said:

Father Hubbard said:

Make the whole floor GA, sell half the tix for something inflated, like $250-$300 with the markup going to charity. That'll spice things up.

um no. I can gladly donate to the charity of my choosing if I want to. Why do you want to squeeze the fan out that has limited funds?

Making the entire floor GA would, in theory, open up more tickets for the club members. While they would most likely never gouge their fan club members on tickets, its a more "honorable" way of marking a portion of the tickets up to market value, which I think is part of the problem. The supply is not high enough to meet demand at $80/ticket for the best seats in the heavily populated areas, even within our fan club. It would help a hometown person who REALLY wants to go fork out the cash, instead of going to a scalper or dropping the money on a trip to Charlottesville (although I hear its very lovely). If you dont want or cant afford to pay the premium, you can try your luck with the lottery on the inexpensive block.

They could also just do what most bands do and charge a premium for the best seats on the floor and wings and keep the money themselves, and start offering VIP packages through American Express or something silly like that. I dont see it happening or necessarily like it, but better they get the money than some scalper who joined the club only to resell (which I wonder how often that really happens).

As for the lottery itself (which I have gone off on some random tangent, my apologies), many, myself included, grew accustomed to being able to get tix to any and every show we wanted to prior to 2012. Not only that, but seniority assured the best spot in the venue. While this lottery system is definitely more fair and was probably a necessary change, it has been a difficult transition not getting tickets to most every show you want and also not being within the first ten rows for the shows you do get tickets for. I am not saying anyone should have more of a right to entry than anyone else because of seniority or anything like that, just that it is difficult when you are used to a certain way and that is "taken away" from you. Were we spoiled before? Probably. When you are used to going to 5 to 10 shows a tour, and then you get shut out of Pittsburgh and Buffalo as your first and second choices on the new system, its tough to swallow, which I think why people get emotional about it. Its easy to think "I have seen them XXX number of times and been in the club for 20 years and now someone who just joined last week won tickets while I got shut out." It is also easy for the other side to think "its just a concert, get over it."

Other random opinions:

1. I liked the method of purchasing tix for the Canadian 2011 tour that was done through ticketmaster after the initial 10C site crash. That was very quick and easy.

2. Once tickets are obtained, seniority should still be in effect somehow, like season ticket holders with sports teams, it makes sense to me, even though I am biased here.

3. If there is GA, and it is a lottery to get tix, it should also be a lottery for entry, as someone mentioned, like Bruce does. If we are going to be fair, lets be fair.

I think that's all, sorry for the rambling, alot to put out there.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Sitting on a computer for 5 hours, hitting the F5 key, is just FUCKING ridiculous.


Have no problem with the lottery.
Have no problem with GA.

Carry on

PJ_Soul

pjsteelerfan said:

Just to play devils advocate, I knew at least two people on the old system, when it was time to buy tickets, had multiple friends log in under the ID and try and buy tickets. So while it was not the same as buying multiple memberships, it still theoretically increased their chances for high demand shows.And I am positive they were not the only people to do that. And no matter how 10c would tweak the system, people are still going to try and find an advantage.

In the end, all this talk of "fairness" for most people is they really want what is best for themselves to get tickets, and could care less about anyone else. And it is only in places for high demand shows like New York that is really affected and what people are worried about.

I have heard from people who used to get several of their family members to F5 from different computers, and people who would have 3 computers going at one time to F5 from. It's easy for some with more people are resources working on it to get a leg up with the F5 system.

PJ_Soul

jmuscatello said:

Question about the seniority seating...
I'm high 400K number too... just the way it is, not complaining. I tried for only one show last tour (Portland) and got it, which was great. Our seats were back of floor. Loved the show, sound was great, and was just glad to be anywhere in there, but I'm 5'2" and really couldn't see much of the stage/band at all. GA might have been worse, don't know. So for next time, wouldn't I really be better off skipping the 10c lottery and try to do better through TM or secondary market? At least in that case I'd know where I'd end up, and I could avoid the 5'2" on the floor problem even if I have to pay more....?

I just think that 10C should not make any 10C tix floor seats. I don't think I've read that anyone was particularly stoked to get those. 10C tix are supposed to make the best seats available to members. Seats on the floor behind the pit are the worst seats after higher up behind the stage.