Lottery or No Lottery

backseatLover12

PJ_Soul said:

backseatLover12 said:

jfconnorjr said:

MayDay10 said:

I think its worse. I do feel people can and will manipulate the system. Now that I know there is a tour, I can start a digital account for my wife, one for my son, and one for each of my dogs.... and my buddy in CT can do the same thing. We would use our well-senioritied accounts for Reserved tickets, and our 589XXX accounts for GA attempts across the board and strategize our decisions/preference. Get just a few doubled up shows and some GA tickets and our tour is paid for.

That compared to the real me: one schmo trying to make 1 list is a pretty big mismatch.

one thing about 10c is we are very adaptive. This GA/Reserved lotto system was ripe to manipulate.

This is the gaming I am talking about.
I don't hate the "player" I dislike the game.

There is no perfect system but I am not sure the GA/Reserved lotto is good enough, that is why I started this poll. Looks like others feel like it is good.

The people who've actually won feel it's a good system. Ask the same people when they lose how they feel about it being a decent system.

It's not a good system when it's easily manipulated. It's not a good system if buying multiple memberships is the only way to getting tickets (like above). And it's not a good system when member numbers, accumulated over the years, suddenly mean nothing. And it's not a good system when an honest fan can't get a single show while other fans win multiple shows.

I really like the lottery for its fairness. Whether I win it or not is irrelevant. As I mentioned, I only won 1 show in the past 3 lotteries. But I still got to all of the shows.
Member numbers do not mean nothing. They still get you prioritized seating. And buying multiple memberships helps all ticketing systems. Lottery doesn't increase the usefulness of doing that.

Multiple memberships definitely did not help F5 method like it does lottery. There is no fairness in a system that rewards those willing to pay for lots of shows over 1 or 2 shows. Do not assume people are looking for a ticket buddy, do not assume anything.

backseatLover12

Jason P said:

PJ_Soul said:

Jason P said:

Pre-Lotto ... I got Vic tix

Post-Lotto ... Couldn't score Wrigley tix

Hmmmm, which do I prefer .....

But there was so other member who DIDN'T get Vic tix because you did. And some member who DID get Wrigley tix because you didn't. Seems fair to me....

I never got shut out before the lotto for a show I wanted to go to. It sometimes required hitting F5 for hours on end, but no luck was involved.

This. It should not be a matter of how 10c draws lucky names, it should not be left up to chance. We're buying tickets for gods sake! Bring f5 back, at least we feel like we have a sense of control!

Get_Right

If you choose wisely, you should get your first choice show in the lottery, unless its LA, NYC or Boston.

And yeah I agree you cant base it on geography since PJ does not tour the entire country, its just not fair.

I think the lottery did exactly what it was supposed to do. Get 10c tix in the hands of more members. Id like to see those numbers. No system is perfect, the grass is always greener!

MayDay10

Get a better server. Release all the tickets at once. F5 frenzy and people are forced to go for their priority show. Lottery for those with tickets for ga with a window of refusal... rest seated by seniority.

I can guarantee that if I enlisted anyone in my life other than me to join an f5 derby, I ain't getting those tickets

backseatLover12

Get_Right said:

If you choose wisely, you should get your first choice show in the lottery, unless its LA, NYC or Boston.

And yeah I agree you cant base it on geography since PJ does not tour the entire country, its just not fair.

I think the lottery did exactly what it was supposed to do. Get 10c tix in the hands of more members. Id like to see those numbers. No system is perfect, the grass is always greener!

So, you're saying that there's some some kind of control in the lottery process, if I choose wisely. This is bullshit, the lottery is supposedly left up to complete chance. There is no ounce of control involved. I agree though, there's even less chance with those 3 cities. Why not give locals a chance to see the band in their area though? How is this wrong? And they did get tix into the hands of more members, but they are NEW members, often family members.

MayDay10

The whole ga/lottery thing plays out wonderfully for scalpers too... as opposed to little appeal in getting a shitty number and having mystery seats only to be revealed at the show, usually being marginally ok.

pjsteelerfan

backseatLover12 said:

Get_Right said:

If you choose wisely, you should get your first choice show in the lottery, unless its LA, NYC or Boston.

And yeah I agree you cant base it on geography since PJ does not tour the entire country, its just not fair.

I think the lottery did exactly what it was supposed to do. Get 10c tix in the hands of more members. Id like to see those numbers. No system is perfect, the grass is always greener!

So, you're saying that there's some some kind of control in the lottery process, if I choose wisely. This is bullshit, the lottery is supposedly left up to complete chance. There is no ounce of control involved. I agree though, there's even less chance with those 3 cities. Why not give locals a chance to see the band in their area though? How is this wrong? And they did get tix into the hands of more members, but they are NEW members, often family members.

I don't think you get it, there are more "locals" just in Boston than there are for Boston tickets. Same with New York, or Philly. the lottery is chance. So someone in say , Miami, that does not get a show, should not be allowed to a chance for Boston because the locals get more of one?

And all this bull about new members is complete speculation. Sure it happens sometimes, but like everything else on here is getting blown way out of proportion.

Again, in cities where there are way more fans than tickets, no system will work, not sure why that is so hard to understand. If you had lost out in the regular sale, would you still be making the same argument that it is unfair?

Jason P

PJ_Soul said:

Jason P said:

PJ_Soul said:

Jason P said:

PJ_Soul said:

Jason P said:

Pre-Lotto ... I got Vic tix

Post-Lotto ... Couldn't score Wrigley tix

Hmmmm, which do I prefer .....

But there was so other member who DIDN'T get Vic tix because you did. And some member who DID get Wrigley tix because you didn't. Seems fair to me....

I never got shut out before the lotto for a show I wanted to go to. It sometimes required hitting F5 for hours on end, but no luck was involved.

That's nice for you that you never got shut out before, but every time you didn't someone else did. Sounds like things have equalized with the lottery..... fair doesn't = you always getting tix.

The poll is not about what is fair but what you prefer. I could care less about fairness and more about getting my face melted by McCready solo.

Oh, okay. I care very much if the system that 10C gives us for getting tix is as fair as possible to all members.
I guess it's pretty obvious that the attitude of "whatever gets me more and fuck everyone else" really rubs me the wrong way.

It's not "fuck everyone else" attitude, it's about "who wants it more" attitude. Back in the day I would camp outside a ticketmaster outlet for a show I wanted to see. Fairness should not be a factor correlated in the equation as long as it's a level playing field.

Fairness does not equal luck otherwise Powerball would not be profitable for the government.

Get_Right

backseatLover12 said:

Get_Right said:

If you choose wisely, you should get your first choice show in the lottery, unless its LA, NYC or Boston.

And yeah I agree you cant base it on geography since PJ does not tour the entire country, its just not fair.

I think the lottery did exactly what it was supposed to do. Get 10c tix in the hands of more members. Id like to see those numbers. No system is perfect, the grass is always greener!

So, you're saying that there's some some kind of control in the lottery process, if I choose wisely. This is bullshit, the lottery is supposedly left up to complete chance. There is no ounce of control involved. I agree though, there's even less chance with those 3 cities. Why not give locals a chance to see the band in their area though? How is this wrong? And they did get tix into the hands of more members, but they are NEW members, often family members.

Not control, but put some thought into it. Choose Hartford instead of MSG. Choose reserved instead of GA. Choose less popular cities for second and third choices. Better chance you will win, not only that, less popular shows mean you will be closer. A two hour or three hour drive to see PJ in 10c seats is SO worth it.

I get the home town show Idea. Im in NYC, so that would be great for me.
But its not fair to the fan in south dakota that wants to get 10c tix. Every member has an equal shot at getting tix regardless of location or seniority. At least in theory.

I really cant say if the family member thing is a big deal. I have no idea what the true impact of that is. I could see scalpers doing it too.

I am not thrilled about the lottery. But it is better than the utter failure that was F5.

rival9500

As someone who got completely fucked over last year 0 out of 8 shows and so many people getting multiple shows. I am against the lottery. Obviously.

MayDay10

I believe the best progression would be to detach the ga as on option. You put in for a show and have the option of a ga drawing from a Dropbox when you put in for tix. Then out of all those that win, they lottery off the ga tix... say they are 10% of the allocation. They would go to 10% of members 0 through 100xxx with tix, 10% of members 100001 through 200000 with tix and so forth.

This would make it much less appealing for scalpers (including those among us) to load up on extra 600xxx memberships to go for ga tix only

Jason P

Fairness = PJ announcing a complete tour instead of piece-mailing out dates so everyone doesn't just bid on a concert because they have no idea if there will be an additional show in their area.

If your city is the first and only date announced a much bigger and giant pool of people will try to score tix especially with PJ's limited and sporadic touring schedule.

Let's face it. The real issue is that a saboteur outwitted 10C. Fairness was never a consideration in the new lotto system.

PJ_Soul

backseatLover12 said:

Get_Right said:

If you choose wisely, you should get your first choice show in the lottery, unless its LA, NYC or Boston.

And yeah I agree you cant base it on geography since PJ does not tour the entire country, its just not fair.

I think the lottery did exactly what it was supposed to do. Get 10c tix in the hands of more members. Id like to see those numbers. No system is perfect, the grass is always greener!

So, you're saying that there's some some kind of control in the lottery process, if I choose wisely. This is bullshit, the lottery is supposedly left up to complete chance. There is no ounce of control involved. I agree though, there's even less chance with those 3 cities. Why not give locals a chance to see the band in their area though? How is this wrong? And they did get tix into the hands of more members, but they are NEW members, often family members.

What is wrong with new members getting tickets?
Anyway, that WAS 10C's goal. To get as many different members to at least one show. Mission accomplished.

prism

how does manipulating the lottery system = fair?

no one was buying bogus memberships with F5. with the lottery fans wanting a pair of tix to a show often score multiple pairs for their household, and scalp the extras. while many other longtime fans get completely shut-out

wonder how many pro-lottery 10clubber's spouse, cousins, kids, favorite barista, or dogs they purchased bogus memberships for have signed in on those accounts just to skew the poll numbers in this very thread?

Drowned Out

I voted no lottery. I found the whole process a hassle compared to the previous system…and this is coming from someone who spent his entire May long weekend F5’ing for Alpine Go back to the old system, and give in and use Ticketmaster for the damn sale so we don’t have to F5 for an hour (or weekend). I don’t see how the old system was any less fair. The people who complained they couldn’t buy them while working could take a half day off or have someone else log into their account for them. What do they do for other tickets that go on sale at 10AM?

I also had much better seats under the old system. People with high member numbers who want to get close still had 4 of the front rows for lottery. And if they wanted to get close without the lottery, they can go to smaller markets, like I did with Saskatoon in 05. My member number got me row 5 in Calgary in ’11…last year, I was seated, probably row 6 or 7 (can’t remember), but back about 12 floor rows worth of distance on the side. That’s a pretty big downgrade.

I prefer a seated floor (for PJ, anyway). Having to deal with the lineup people, and those who feel that no one sjhould move around on the floor is a joke. If there was still some semblance of a moshpit, I would be down with GA. But no….at LA2, during the final encore, I had a big group of tall-ass mofo’s move up, directly in front of me, with their two girlfriends holding up their Samsung notes in my site line. Rather than cause a confrontation, I moved to the side a bit, then up about 3-4 rows of people and nearly got lynched by a couple guys up there….no thanks (if the guy close-ish to the front, Mike’s side at LA night 2, who called me a douchebag about 37 times is reading this…. you were taller than me, and I offered to let the girls with you stand in front of me…like I told you then: you’re not going to get me to move by calling me a douche, douche). I don’t want to spend my whole show being annoyed at the people around me, confined to my tiny shoulder-to-shoulder footprint because everyone feels entitled to the spot they got when they first entered the building. I’d much rather have a designated spot and lose myself in the show. Or a proper pit where I can move up or go take a leak and get back close to the front without worrying about being punched in the back of the head.

KingJeremyD

It's all about marketing..After the riot act tour....I think band management figured out that pearl jam couldn't sale a lot of tickets on a big tour...That is announced all at once.....Its all about trying to make the ticket in huge demand...By not announcing the whole tour at once...

derbydave

I liked the GA option...but would like to see the WHOLE FLOOR GA!!
It doesn't make any sense to me to stick people in seats behind the GA sections.
I'd love to hear some thoughts from those that were seated in these sections on this past tour...
Were you able to see the stage okay?

PJ_Soul

prism said:

how does manipulating the lottery system = fair?

no one was buying bogus memberships with F5. with the lottery fans wanting a pair of tix to a show often score multiple pairs for their household, and scalp the extras. while many other longtime fans get completely shut-out

wonder how many pro-lottery 10clubber's spouse, cousins, kids, favorite barista, or dogs they purchased bogus memberships for have signed in on those accounts just to skew the poll numbers in this very thread?

How does anyone know anything about "bogus" memberships either way?? How do you know if anyone was or wasn't buying them with F5, or that anyone is or isn't buying them now? Just how many fans are "often scoring multiple pairs and scalping now with the lottery? Can I see your figures please?

I personally think applying the "bogus membership and scalping 10C tix" factor here is meaningless. None of us have a clue as to how many people are doing this (but if I were forced to guess, I'd say not very many at all.

PJ_Soul

Drowned Out said:

I voted no lottery. I found the whole process a hassle compared to the previous system…and this is coming from someone who spent his entire May long weekend F5’ing for Alpine Go back to the old system, and give in and use Ticketmaster for the damn sale so we don’t have to F5 for an hour (or weekend). I don’t see how the old system was any less fair. The people who complained they couldn’t buy them while working could take a half day off or have someone else log into their account for them. What do they do for other tickets that go on sale at 10AM?

I also had much better seats under the old system. People with high member numbers who want to get close still had 4 of the front rows for lottery. And if they wanted to get close without the lottery, they can go to smaller markets, like I did with Saskatoon in 05. My member number got me row 5 in Calgary in ’11…last year, I was seated, probably row 6 or 7 (can’t remember), but back about 12 floor rows worth of distance on the side. That’s a pretty big downgrade.

I prefer a seated floor (for PJ, anyway). Having to deal with the lineup people, and those who feel that no one sjhould move around on the floor is a joke. If there was still some semblance of a moshpit, I would be down with GA. But no….at LA2, during the final encore, I had a big group of tall-ass mofo’s move up, directly in front of me, with their two girlfriends holding up their Samsung notes in my site line. Rather than cause a confrontation, I moved to the side a bit, then up about 3-4 rows of people and nearly got lynched by a couple guys up there….no thanks (if the guy close-ish to the front, Mike’s side at LA night 2, who called me a douchebag about 37 times is reading this…. you were taller than me, and I offered to let the girls with you stand in front of me…like I told you then: you’re not going to get me to move by calling me a douche, douche). I don’t want to spend my whole show being annoyed at the people around me, confined to my tiny shoulder-to-shoulder footprint because everyone feels entitled to the spot they got when they first entered the building. I’d much rather have a designated spot and lose myself in the show. Or a proper pit where I can move up or go take a leak and get back close to the front without worrying about being punched in the back of the head.

People in LA are crazy. I keep seeing people holding up LA shows as examples, but that doesn't really work - LA seems to always have a ton of crazies, and seems to be the exception not the rule, lol.
I have had nothing but great experiences in GA.

Anyway, GA floor = maybe $100,000 more for the band. I doubt they're going back now that their fans have calmed down enough for them to feel like it's safe.

PJ_Soul

derbydave said:

I liked the GA option...but would like to see the WHOLE FLOOR GA!!
It doesn't make any sense to me to stick people in seats behind the GA sections.

I agree! Any why were any 10C tix floor seats? Those were the worst seats in the whole place.