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Just one more firearms thread

goingtoveronagoingtoverona Posts: 616
in A Moving Train
http://news.yahoo.com/gun-control-advocates-lawmaker-arrest-setback-220631790.html
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
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Comments

  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,171
    Shameful if the allegations are true. Hypocrisy at its worst.

    Not really about firearms so much as it is about a crooked politician, though.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Well I said it in another thread, a gun banning politician that illegally sells guns.

    And I'm supposed to follow the laws that he creates???
  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    corruption, lies, the list goes on. this fuckin guy is a well off political leader who is a bullshit artist. then some wonder why it is difficult for some to trust their government, which ever one that may be. good job
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Yeah, one hypocritical politician nullifies the whole deal. That's why the global warming issue has been nullified- because AL Gore has a big ecological footprint. That's why Planned Parenthood is nullified- because somebody in the organization got pregnant and refused an abortion for religious reasons. That's why banning the killing of dolphins is nullified- because some activist shot a dolphin. That's why banning the use of rare woods in guitars is nullified- because guys like me have once owned a Les Paul.

    So now because of this... we can all have GUNS!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • goingtoveronagoingtoverona Posts: 616
    blux, aren't you kinda doing the same thing just on the other end of the spectrum? I mean aren't you anti-gunners letting adam lanza, the Colorado movie dude, and the giffords guy ruin it for everyone else? i'm not getting what point you're trying to get across.
    and we can all have guns not because of this, but because they exist.
    if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    goingtoverona said:

    blux, aren't you kinda doing the same thing just on the other end of the spectrum? I mean aren't you anti-gunners letting adam lanza, the Colorado movie dude, and the giffords guy ruin it for everyone else? i'm not getting what point you're trying to get across.
    and we can all have guns not because of this, but because they exist.

    My point is more generic than about the gun issue. What I'm trying to say is that one asshole who does something stupid should not reflect what one side of an issue is about.

    And why do you refer to me as an "anti-gunner"? First of all I hate labels and secondly I have said elsewhere that I personally know responsible gun owners and that these people do not go broadcasting about on public forums that they own guns. I have consistently said that we should have more strict laws about gun ownership, that we should have better screening and gun registration. It is true that my beliefs about gun ownership are not at all well received by gun enthusiasts because if my ideas were put in place it would be at least somewhat if not rather difficult for people to obtain and own firearms and they would not be able to casually walk around with them as freely as they would like. If "ruining it for everyone else" means fewer guns and fewer guns deaths then I don't see any reason for me to apologize.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PingfahPingfah Posts: 350
    He's trying to say that a cause doesn't become unjust simply because a dishonest person supports it.

    It's not the same thing on the other end of the spectrum, it's not even on the same spectrum, you're talking about 2 different concepts. Gun control advocates don't claim that the actions of irresponsible gun owners reflect badly on the responsible ones, they just believe that responsible gun owners must make sacrifices for the greater good..
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Pingfah said:

    He's trying to say that a cause doesn't become unjust simply because a dishonest person supports it.

    It's not the same thing on the other end of the spectrum, it's not even on the same spectrum, you're talking about 2 different concepts. Gun control advocates don't claim that the actions of irresponsible gun owners reflect badly on the responsible ones, they just believe that responsible gun owners must make sacrifices for the greater good..

    Yes- thank you! (And much better said than my rambling. :-) )

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • goingtoveronagoingtoverona Posts: 616
    yeah I understand that, I guess I was trying to figure out where and who said your cause became unjust. I don't see this event and think oh yeah validation baby, which i guess is how i came off by posting the link. it's just another asshole making himself look bad.
    I do wish the "make sacrifices for the greater good" attitude was for more than just guns.
    and blux i'm not asking you to apologize yo, i think it's great you voice your opinion(despite the fact your favorite people on "my side of the fence" are the ones that keep their mouths shut).
    and i feel exactly the same about cars that you do about guns. i picked a group of people and made them priority over everyone else. fewer cars and fewer car deaths?? i'll take it.
    if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    It makes sense, we need to punish people just in case they decide they might do something bad. You know, for the greater good.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    unsung said:

    It makes sense, we need to punish people just in case they decide they might do something bad. You know, for the greater good.

    Sorry you see greater gun control as punishment. I don't think most of us in favor of more strict gun control have any intention of "punishing" anyone. If you are a responsible gun owner and are not a violent person you should have little to worry about.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • GanjapleaseGanjaplease Posts: 65
    edited March 2014
    Why would anyone be FOR gun control?



    Who would be in charge of taking all the guns away? the gov't?


    might as fire up the ovens man, that's fucking holocaust shit right there.

    If you take guns away from everyone, only the centralized authority will be carrying, and the private security forces they rely so heavily on. on which they rely so heavily. whatever,


    the problem isn't guns themselves, its the culture that capitalism creates...we have 3rd world cities inside the richest nation in the world. they've created a culture of violence in these inner cities, a police state, and they wonder why kids turn to gangs and violence.

    Post edited by Ganjaplease on
  • GanjapleaseGanjaplease Posts: 65
    and why are there like 10 gun threads on the first page, does this board have no mods?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Ganjaplease said:

    and why are there like 10 gun threads on the first page, does this board have no mods?

    Don't you know- it's AMT. A Machinegun Train.

    But seriously, we might consider have just one general gun thread. Also, some guy keeps posting about global warming so maybe just one global warming thread would do as well.

    What see ye, train riders?

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • GanjapleaseGanjaplease Posts: 65
    edited March 2014

    that's the thing...if you are agaisnt guns you've probably never went out and just shot shit up with a shotgun. old buildings. loading slugs into 12 gauges trying drop supports for carports on run down buildings. my brothers and me lining up llike we're a firing squad. shooting clay pidgeons 2 at a time. that kinda stuff is fun as shit. and it hurts nobody, and it bother nobody, the nearest neighbor is 20 acres away and he's probably doing the same thing anyway.


    its a blast...unless Dick Cheney comes along, then you gotta watch your face.
  • goingtoveronagoingtoverona Posts: 616
    @ganja, yeah that's all fine and dandy, you're not hurting anyone yourself, but people use guns to kill people. guns are designed to kill and we don't need them. wouldn't you be willing to give up shooting shit to save lives? check it....
    you don't need a gun for self defense because the odds of being the victim of a crime are so tiny, that you can pretty much bet it will never happen to you. and in the event you were a victim of a crime and you had a gun, you would completely freak out and start killing all the innocent people around you while letting the bad guy get away. that's not cool.
    you also don't need to shoot a gun for fun when knitting is very fun and doesn't get people killed.
    and so what if banning guns doesn't work. so what if it would create a black market where criminals could still get their guns and only cops and criminals would have them. at least there would be less guns. we gotta do whatever it takes, even if it doesn't work. if it saves even one life....it's worth it.
    if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
  • GanjapleaseGanjaplease Posts: 65
    who's gonna take the guns? the gov't? because you're not really taking guns away from everybody,somebody has to enforce the rule. so you're not getting rid of guns, you're taking them away from the majority and centralizing them into the hands of the gov't and the private security forces,which as it turns out are the biggest scumbags on the planet/ if they were the only ones with guns..we're pretty much fucked.



    now if it came down to all out revolution, firearms will be no match for the US military....but agasint the police its making em think twice. and fuck the police, especially white cops fucking with minorities. You send a black man and a white guy to court for the same crimes and the black guy is guarantees jail time while the white guy gets probation.

    personally...Iif some guy was about to take me to a place i couldn't escape, where gang rape was a real possibility, i sure as shit wouldn't back down to him. and that's another problem with this scenario.,


    maximum security prisons in the US constitute cruel and unusual punishment. somebody ought to file that lawsuit;.


    goingtoverona said:

    @ganja, yeah that's all fine and dandy, you're not hurting anyone yourself, but people use guns to kill people. guns are designed to kill and we don't need them. wouldn't you be willing to give up shooting shit to save lives? check it....
    you don't need a gun for self defense because the odds of being the victim of a crime are so tiny, that you can pretty much bet it will never happen to you. and in the event you were a victim of a crime and you had a gun, you would completely freak out and start killing all the innocent people around you while letting the bad guy get away. that's not cool.
    you also don't need to shoot a gun for fun when knitting is very fun and doesn't get people killed.
    and so what if banning guns doesn't work. so what if it would create a black market where criminals could still get their guns and only cops and criminals would have them. at least there would be less guns. we gotta do whatever it takes, even if it doesn't work. if it saves even one life....it's worth it.

  • GanjapleaseGanjaplease Posts: 65
    edited March 2014
    AND...do you think making guns illegal will keep them off the streets?


    have you ever smoked pot?>
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,593
    well I think in my state IF we knew who bought the guns and which guns that are then transported across state lines to be sold in the black market then we can hold THOSE people accountable. The ones who buy from the MONTHLY GUN SHOW in my city
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • GanjapleaseGanjaplease Posts: 65
    First they put away the dealers,
    keep our kids safe and off the street.
    Then they put away the prostitutes,
    keep married men cloistered at home.
    Then they shooed away the bums,
    then they beat and bashed the queers,
    turned away asylum-seekers,
    fed us suspicions and fears.
    We didn´t raise our voice,
    we didn´t make a fuss.
    It´s funny there was no one left to notice
    when they came for us.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Ganjaplease said:


    that's the thing...if you are agaisnt guns you've probably never went out and just shot shit up with a shotgun. old buildings. loading slugs into 12 gauges trying drop supports for carports on run down buildings. my brothers and me lining up llike we're a firing squad. shooting clay pidgeons 2 at a time. that kinda stuff is fun as shit. and it hurts nobody, and it bother nobody, the nearest neighbor is 20 acres away and he's probably doing the same thing anyway.


    its a blast...unless Dick Cheney comes along, then you gotta watch your face.

    Yee Haw! Git 'er done.

    I used to shoot shit all the time when we weren't hunting. Growing up... our weekends were filled with excuses to take our rifles into the bush to kill something or to the landfill or logging roads to shoot shit.

    Nobody is talking about confiscating all guns. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason- you should listen twice as much as you speak.

    Rifles and shotguns are fine. They are tools necessary for hunting and also offer exceptional self-defence as piece of mind for the scaredy cats.

    People are talking about assault style weaponry and some, including myself, have included much more rigid screening for the issuing a handgun license and ammunition for that matter.

    You yourself have said that if the military wanted to get all the people... it wouldn't make a difference anyways. So, given this, and as cool as shooting shit is... how about removing assault rifles from the equation so that the next classroom that is currently destined for a slaughter at the hands of some idiot with such weaponry has a fighting chance?

    You have a major fucking problem. You can stick your head up your ass and go, "Meh. Whatareyagunnado?" Or you can begin to address it. Poverty is clearly the root of the problem, but in the meantime, stop the hemorrhaging until your country begins to address the gross wage discrepancy that leaves massive amounts of people desperate and feeling like they have nothing to lose as they turn to drugs and crime.

    Sadly. the selfishness of some Americans will likely prevent any progress. In Canada, despite any shortcomings you might allude to, we take care of our people. We don't let them starve and we help them when they need medical assistance. What does this look like for every citizen? We pay a lot of taxes at the point of payday and at the point of consumption ($20 for 12 beer). Of course there are cases of neglect that tend to irritate a guy, but oh well- that's human nature for you. The spirit of our social programs is solid and in general, we are all happy to contribute to each other's fortunes. We don't like seeing people suffer- it reflects on all of us.

    If offered cheaper beer and more net pay... at the expense of a chunk of people suffering so I can become a glutton... no thanks. I have enough.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • goingtoveronagoingtoverona Posts: 616
    @ mickeyrat, yeah that is something they need to fix. i agree there should be some kind of paperwork with transfers. i'm sure it's different in every state but the idea of a person being able to buy a gun and then being able to sell it privately with nothing more than an exchange of cash is pretty disturbing. once it leaves the original owner, who the hell knows where it could end up. it could be sold ten more times. is there a record of an original gun purchase? meaning if a gun with an intact serial number is found at a crime scene, can they check the number and find out who bought it? if there already is a "list", i don't see what the big deal with registering is. so long as it doesn't cost money.

    @ganja, i was just busting your balls bro.
    if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,593
    edited March 2014
    goingtoverona said:

    @ mickeyrat, yeah that is something they need to fix. i agree there should be some kind of paperwork with transfers. i'm sure it's different in every state but the idea of a person being able to buy a gun and then being able to sell it privately with nothing more than an exchange of cash is pretty disturbing. once it leaves the original owner, who the hell knows where it could end up. it could be sold ten more times. is there a record of an original gun purchase? meaning if a gun with an intact serial number is found at a crime scene, can they check the number and find out who bought it? if there already is a "list", i don't see what the big deal with registering is. so long as it doesn't cost money.

    @ganja, i was just busting your balls bro.

    Ohio has some of the least restrictive laws on the books, note the preemptive section. text is too many characters to paste in full
    http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/ohio.aspx
    heres the section on preemeption

    Preemption

    The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition

    OHIO REV. CODE ANN. §9.68 (2008)

    (A) The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.

    (B) In addition to any other relief provided, the court shall award costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person, group, or entity that prevails in a challenge to an ordinance, rule, or regulation as being in conflict with this section.

    (C) As used in this section:

    (1) The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition.

    (2) “Firearm” has the same meaning as in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code.

    (D) This section does not apply to either of the following:

    (1) A zoning ordinance that regulates or prohibits the commercial sale of firearms, firearm components, or ammunition for firearms in areas zoned for residential or agricultural uses;

    (2) A zoning ordinance that specifies the hours of operation or the geographic areas where the commercial sale of firearms, firearm components, or ammunition for firearms may occur, provided that the zoning ordinance is consistent with zoning ordinances for other retail establishments in the same geographic area and does not result in a de facto prohibition of the commercial sale of firearms, firearm components, or ammunition for firearms in areas zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial uses.


    local station reprted this
    http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2013/06/21/columbus-ohio-top-supplier-of-guns-to-other-state.html
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • GanjapleaseGanjaplease Posts: 65
    edited March 2014
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Ganjaplease said:


    that's the thing...if you are agaisnt guns you've probably never went out and just shot shit up with a shotgun. old buildings. loading slugs into 12 gauges trying drop supports for carports on run down buildings. my brothers and me lining up llike we're a firing squad. shooting clay pidgeons 2 at a time. that kinda stuff is fun as shit. and it hurts nobody, and it bother nobody, the nearest neighbor is 20 acres away and he's probably doing the same thing anyway.


    its a blast...unless Dick Cheney comes along, then you gotta watch your face.

    Yee Haw! Git 'er done.

    I used to shoot shit all the time when we weren't hunting. Growing up... our weekends were filled with excuses to take our rifles into the bush to kill something or to the landfill or logging roads to shoot shit.

    Nobody is talking about confiscating all guns. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason- you should listen twice as much as you speak.

    Rifles and shotguns are fine. They are tools necessary for hunting and also offer exceptional self-defence as piece of mind for the scaredy cats.

    People are talking about assault style weaponry and some, including myself, have included much more rigid screening for the issuing a handgun license and ammunition for that matter.

    You yourself have said that if the military wanted to get all the people... it wouldn't make a difference anyways. So, given this, and as cool as shooting shit is... how about removing assault rifles from the equation so that the next classroom that is currently destined for a slaughter at the hands of some idiot with such weaponry has a fighting chance?

    You have a major fucking problem. You can stick your head up your ass and go, "Meh. Whatareyagunnado?" Or you can begin to address it. Poverty is clearly the root of the problem, but in the meantime, stop the hemorrhaging until your country begins to address the gross wage discrepancy that leaves massive amounts of people desperate and feeling like they have nothing to lose as they turn to drugs and crime.

    Sadly. the selfishness of some Americans will likely prevent any progress. In Canada, despite any shortcomings you might allude to, we take care of our people. We don't let them starve and we help them when they need medical assistance. What does this look like for every citizen? We pay a lot of taxes at the point of payday and at the point of consumption ($20 for 12 beer). Of course there are cases of neglect that tend to irritate a guy, but oh well- that's human nature for you. The spirit of our social programs is solid and in general, we are all happy to contribute to each other's fortunes. We don't like seeing people suffer- it reflects on all of us.

    If offered cheaper beer and more net pay... at the expense of a chunk of people suffering so I can become a glutton... no thanks. I have enough.
    Wheres this 'alluding to Canada's shortcomings' you are laying at my feet? don't judge me man, and btw, you have completely misread me. continue with your misconceptions, your misunderstandings, its humerous. guess i dont' "hear" to well.


    as to the wage discrepancy, in the US, minimum wage has actually decreased since 1960, stagnated since 78 or so (relative to inflation), while profits have skyrocketed and managers and CEO's have seen exponential growth in salaries. I'm well aware of the poverty in the united states. I'm not gonna sit here and complain about it all day, in fact i'm quite happy. the things you own end up owning you. a goddamn hobbit taught me that.

    the reason wages are stagnating is that a very real class war is being waged, by the elite, and they are the best in the world at it. so good in fact, that most Americans don't even know there is such a thing as class war. lobbyist, corporations, they all inflcuence capitol hill and the bills that get passed benefit those who have more, and still they want more. quite literally the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer....and getting more desperate/.

    for the most part I agree with what you've typed...but capitalism nourishes that selfishness you find so damaging....and I agree, it is a problem. the key, and the fundamental fricking ethos, the very core of our system , of ANY system,- is the motivation behind labor.

    under capitalism.....its me me me. there is no thought for others or the community. that's why a socialist,/syndicalist/ anarcho/ type system is so much more beneficial. you go to work, not to better your self, but to better yourself AND everyone around you. your all work as a team, towards one goal, to better the community, which in turn benefits the individual.

    you'd be surprised at how difficult it is to resist the impulse in this country. every stimuli reinforces this selfish behavior...all you hear or see on tv is a product begging for your dollar. you are constantly reminded of what "success" has come to mean. and peopal judge the fuck out of you, and misunderstand you all the time, and pig fuckers like that (not you) i feel sorry for.;


    Post edited by Ganjaplease on
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    unsung said:

    It makes sense, we need to punish people just in case they decide they might do something bad. You know, for the greater good.


    GET REAL! Registration and licensing isn't punishment it is COMMON SENSE!! Was the government punishing you when they gave you a social security number and registered you on the "lists" of society? Was it a punishment when you had to prove you were capable of driving before they allowed you on the roads? Is it punishment that we have to carry insurance in case we destroy one another's cars or lives? Nope just common fucking sense. The persecuted attitude (right next to your lax safety rules) work against your gun advocacy, not for it. It makes normal gun owners (22rifle, p380 pistol: both inherited from father) who aren't head in the sand fanatics ashamed to even admit they own guns!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Ganjaplease said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Ganjaplease said:


    that's the thing...if you are agaisnt guns you've probably never went out and just shot shit up with a shotgun. old buildings. loading slugs into 12 gauges trying drop supports for carports on run down buildings. my brothers and me lining up llike we're a firing squad. shooting clay pidgeons 2 at a time. that kinda stuff is fun as shit. and it hurts nobody, and it bother nobody, the nearest neighbor is 20 acres away and he's probably doing the same thing anyway.


    its a blast...unless Dick Cheney comes along, then you gotta watch your face.

    Yee Haw! Git 'er done.

    I used to shoot shit all the time when we weren't hunting. Growing up... our weekends were filled with excuses to take our rifles into the bush to kill something or to the landfill or logging roads to shoot shit.

    Nobody is talking about confiscating all guns. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason- you should listen twice as much as you speak.

    Rifles and shotguns are fine. They are tools necessary for hunting and also offer exceptional self-defence as piece of mind for the scaredy cats.

    People are talking about assault style weaponry and some, including myself, have included much more rigid screening for the issuing a handgun license and ammunition for that matter.

    You yourself have said that if the military wanted to get all the people... it wouldn't make a difference anyways. So, given this, and as cool as shooting shit is... how about removing assault rifles from the equation so that the next classroom that is currently destined for a slaughter at the hands of some idiot with such weaponry has a fighting chance?

    You have a major fucking problem. You can stick your head up your ass and go, "Meh. Whatareyagunnado?" Or you can begin to address it. Poverty is clearly the root of the problem, but in the meantime, stop the hemorrhaging until your country begins to address the gross wage discrepancy that leaves massive amounts of people desperate and feeling like they have nothing to lose as they turn to drugs and crime.

    Sadly. the selfishness of some Americans will likely prevent any progress. In Canada, despite any shortcomings you might allude to, we take care of our people. We don't let them starve and we help them when they need medical assistance. What does this look like for every citizen? We pay a lot of taxes at the point of payday and at the point of consumption ($20 for 12 beer). Of course there are cases of neglect that tend to irritate a guy, but oh well- that's human nature for you. The spirit of our social programs is solid and in general, we are all happy to contribute to each other's fortunes. We don't like seeing people suffer- it reflects on all of us.

    If offered cheaper beer and more net pay... at the expense of a chunk of people suffering so I can become a glutton... no thanks. I have enough.
    Wheres this 'alluding to Canada's shortcomings' you are laying at my feet? don't judge me man, and btw, you have completely misread me. continue with your misconceptions, your misunderstandings, its humerous. guess i dont' "hear" to well.


    as to the wage discrepancy, in the US, minimum wage has actually decreased since 1960, stagnated since 78 or so (relative to inflation), while profits have skyrocketed and managers and CEO's have seen exponential growth in salaries. I'm well aware of the poverty in the united states. I'm not gonna sit here and complain about it all day, in fact i'm quite happy. the things you own end up owning you. a goddamn hobbit taught me that.

    the reason wages are stagnating is that a very real class war is being waged, by the elite, and they are the best in the world at it. so good in fact, that most Americans don't even know there is such a thing as class war. lobbyist, corporations, they all inflcuence capitol hill and the bills that get passed benefit those who have more, and still they want more. quite literally the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer....and getting more desperate/.

    for the most part I agree with what you've typed...but capitalism nourishes that selfishness you find so damaging....and I agree, it is a problem. the key, and the fundamental fricking ethos, the very core of our system , of ANY system,- is the motivation behind labor.

    under capitalism.....its me me me. there is no thought for others or the community. that's why a socialist,/syndicalist/ anarcho/ type system is so much more beneficial. you go to work, not to better your self, but to better yourself AND everyone around you. your all work as a team, towards one goal, to better the community, which in turn benefits the individual.

    you'd be surprised at how difficult it is to resist the impulse in this country. every stimuli reinforces this selfish behavior...all you hear or see on tv is a product begging for your dollar. you are constantly reminded of what "success" has come to mean. and peopal judge the fuck out of you, and misunderstand you all the time, and pig fuckers like that (not you) i feel sorry for.;


    I said might allude to in the event you 'might' allude to something. Sorry this wasn't clear.

    I may have misread what you intended with what you have written regarding guns, but at its point it's really no bi deal.

    Gun issue aside, It sounds, if I interpreted your passage correctly, like we're not too far apart in our beliefs regarding class struggle.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    It makes sense, we need to punish people just in case they decide they might do something bad. You know, for the greater good.


    GET REAL! Registration and licensing isn't punishment it is COMMON SENSE!! Was the government punishing you when they gave you a social security number and registered you on the "lists" of society? Was it a punishment when you had to prove you were capable of driving before they allowed you on the roads? Is it punishment that we have to carry insurance in case we destroy one another's cars or lives? Nope just common fucking sense. The persecuted attitude (right next to your lax safety rules) work against your gun advocacy, not for it. It makes normal gun owners (22rifle, p380 pistol: both inherited from father) who aren't head in the sand fanatics ashamed to even admit they own guns!
    Funny, absolutely zero of what you said is protected by the Bill of Rights, except those evil firearms.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    yes and the bill of rights is our absolute ideal that must not be deviated from. Ever. So if i wreck your car it is up to you to fix it and I am not responsible cuz the Bill of Rights didn't say so. You live in a fantasy... For instance, without the FDA there would be no uncontaminated food to buy, and snake oil would be the norm again, read The Jungle and tell me that would be ok, we can trust the market.

    Your fervor for the Constitution leads me to believe you know nothing of the situation in which it was formed, and by whom.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    rgambs said:

    yes and the bill of rights is our absolute ideal that must not be deviated from. Ever. So if i wreck your car it is up to you to fix it and I am not responsible cuz the Bill of Rights didn't say so. You live in a fantasy... For instance, without the FDA there would be no uncontaminated food to buy, and snake oil would be the norm again, read The Jungle and tell me that would be ok, we can trust the market.

    Your fervor for the Constitution leads me to believe you know nothing of the situation in which it was formed, and by whom.


    I suggest you read it, because what you are saying still doesn't apply.

    Keep trying.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    it doesn't apply? Doesn't apply to what? A good job with benefits? What the hell does that mean? I'll just keep trying.

    Seriously, acting like the Constitution is an authoritative document that covers all of today's issues is just lunacy. Good luck with the persecuted attitude, it won't inspire much confidence in gun owners! Registration equals punishment, damn life must be torture!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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