Without sounding like a complete hater, can I say that i think that with the current baseball economics (not considering the next CBA, so things could change), and not from a pure baseball standpoint (because of course having Trout and Harper on the same team would be an amazing thing) , that signing Trout would be a poor decision for the Phillies at this point? From a pure you need to create a 40 man roster for under $250 mil, which would be the highest payroll by a mile and I don't see that number happening.
No two offensive players are winning anything alone. There is almost a zero percent chance that Trout and Harper have A SINGLE season as good as JDM and Betts had this year and they do not win the World Series without Sale, Price (gross), Evoldi, Kimbrel (I guess...), Bogearts, Pearce (he's trash), etc. Betts, who I love, hit under .220 in the playoffs. Everything in the world would have to come together for them to have a season like those two had this year and they'd both be 30'ish sooo maybe you get the absolute possible chance at 1 or 2 years of JDM and Mookie, but you're also committed for about 20 years and half a billion plus past that. The Phillies would be investing 3X or more what the Red Sox paid for that production. It sounds absolutely amazing, but rationally seems like a terrible idea outside of a potential 2-3 year period, AT MOST. Am I wrong?
Everything I said here applies to the Yankees as well with Judge and is clearly why they didn't have interest in Machado. I want the Yankees to extend Judge at like $180 mil until he's 33.
That said, I am soooo exited for baseball to be back in Philly.
Without sounding like a complete hater, can I say that i think that with the current baseball economics (not considering the next CBA, so things could change), and not from a pure baseball standpoint (because of course having Trout and Harper on the same team would be an amazing thing) , that signing Trout would be a poor decision for the Phillies at this point? From a pure you need to create a 40 man roster for under $250 mil, which would be the highest payroll by a mile and I don't see that number happening.
No two offensive players are winning anything alone. There is almost a zero percent chance that Trout and Harper have A SINGLE season as good as JDM and Betts had this year and they do not win the World Series without Sale, Price (gross), Evoldi, Kimbrel (I guess...), Bogearts, Pearce (he's trash), etc. Betts, who I love, hit under .220 in the playoffs. Everything in the world would have to come together for them to have a season like those two had this year and they'd both be 30'ish sooo maybe you get the absolute possible chance at 1 or 2 years of JDM and Mookie, but you're also committed for about 20 years and half a billion plus past that. The Phillies would be investing 3X or more what the Red Sox paid for that production. It sounds absolutely amazing, but rationally seems like a terrible idea outside of a potential 2-3 year period, AT MOST. Am I wrong?
Everything I said here applies to the Yankees as well with Judge and is clearly why they didn't have interest in Machado. I want the Yankees to extend Judge at like $180 mil until he's 33.
That said, I am soooo exited for baseball to be back in Philly.
Wait wait wait weren’t you ripping Hal for not spending money? And having the best player in the game in trout at any price can never be a bad thing. I would think a Yankees fan would think the same
Without sounding like a complete hater, can I say that i think that with the current baseball economics (not considering the next CBA, so things could change), and not from a pure baseball standpoint (because of course having Trout and Harper on the same team would be an amazing thing) , that signing Trout would be a poor decision for the Phillies at this point? From a pure you need to create a 40 man roster for under $250 mil, which would be the highest payroll by a mile and I don't see that number happening.
No two offensive players are winning anything alone. There is almost a zero percent chance that Trout and Harper have A SINGLE season as good as JDM and Betts had this year and they do not win the World Series without Sale, Price (gross), Evoldi, Kimbrel (I guess...), Bogearts, Pearce (he's trash), etc. Betts, who I love, hit under .220 in the playoffs. Everything in the world would have to come together for them to have a season like those two had this year and they'd both be 30'ish sooo maybe you get the absolute possible chance at 1 or 2 years of JDM and Mookie, but you're also committed for about 20 years and half a billion plus past that. The Phillies would be investing 3X or more what the Red Sox paid for that production. It sounds absolutely amazing, but rationally seems like a terrible idea outside of a potential 2-3 year period, AT MOST. Am I wrong?
Everything I said here applies to the Yankees as well with Judge and is clearly why they didn't have interest in Machado. I want the Yankees to extend Judge at like $180 mil until he's 33.
That said, I am soooo exited for baseball to be back in Philly.
Wait wait wait weren’t you ripping Hal for not spending money? And having the best player in the game in trout at any price can never be a bad thing. I would think a Yankees fan would think the same
I have been, but that is under the assumption that I think the Yankees should have a $300 million or more payroll. That is clearly not the MLB we are living in. I am not saying I agree with it, but that is the state of the game. The Yankees are worth billions (multiple) of dollars, they can afford $300 mil in players. The fact is, the Red Sox paid $230 mil this year and no one is ever going higher than that under the current structure. Even if you add $20 mill to that for an absolutely insane team...
Let me ask you in that case. Do you think that Harper and Trout at basically 30 and 30 will EVER have the season JDM and Betts just had at 25 and 31? And if so, were they personally responsible for ONE world series? And if you do, the Red Sox just had a payroll of $230 mil with those two getting a total of $35 mil, Trout and Harper would at absolute minimum be at $65 mil?
If I am building the Phillies, I think you have a world series core. Harper at $25 mil is amazing, but not amazing for Trout. He is amazing for extending Realmuto at $18 mil or something, Hoskins at $15 mil or something eventually. Getting more bullpen pieces. I love Drob but if you think this pen is a world series pen....come on. Getting more starters. Point is, $70 mil or whatever into 2 players in their 30-40 year old seasons is an absolute recipe for disaster. To tempo's point, name 5 players in baseball over 35 who are good. Could you imagine promising half a bil to 35-40 of two players?
Nola, Hoskins, Realmuto, Harper and Trout are at minimum $105 million in 2022
Here's the point. Boston paid $35 million and had one of the highest payrolls ever for the best offensive production out of two players that you could ever expect. You'd be paying double for that same production.
If you sign Trout and keep hoskins and have harper, I'm not sure they have the production of JDM/mookie thiis year for what is probably $75 million, assuming Hoskins is an absolute stud.
You are not getting two players better than JDM and Mookie in the same season. Find me how many times that has happened. Phillies have a stud core. I'd go for Xander over Segura, bump him to third, and get pitching. I think that's the play.
You will never get a better season than JDM and Mookie had this year for $36 mil on a $230 million payroll (one of the biggest ever), and a max of something like $175 mil promised. These guys were 25 and 30, no one promised money over anything over 35'ish
In an absolute perfect season with Trout and Harper, you will get the same production JD and Mookie had this year, yet paying double and promising about 20 more years and over half a billion more dollars in contracts. Again, in a baseball sense, of course it makes sense having the best players on the team, but i just don’t see it with the current structure.
Post edited by Cliffy6745 on
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,287
I think Cliff sees the writing on the wall and he’s getting upset.
I had a few pops in me and went down a stat rabbit hole. I do see writing on the wall but I’m not upset. I am excited for baseball to be popular here. Trout would make baseball crazy popular, but I don’t think they’d win much of anything.
The Boston comparison is perfect. For $700 million, you hope to get the season they just had out of two players one single time and you’d be severly hampered from doing anything else.
Its the same shit with the Yankees. Under the current structure, I don’t agree wth it, but they’re gonna have to keep Stanton and judge under a combined $40 or so million while the window is open to win. Anything more and you can’t build a $200 million team around it.
look at the World Series teams of the past 5 years compared to the last 20 of Yankees.
Edit: You guys know I fucking love baseball, and the economics of it and playing arm chair GM. I want nothing more than for teams to spend $300 mil on payroll and load the team with stars. Based on this offseason and the fact that all of the good teams in baseball with money did not make a big time signing, just tells me that multiple massive deals is not a way teams see as a way to win. I don’t agree with it but it’s baseball and the Yankees way of working is clearly dead
Also, the wife has been out of town for 36 hours and I have never had more respect for single parents. Good fucking God
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,625
edited March 2019
Ha. My wife had surgery when the 4 year old was a newborn. Another 30 days of bed rest, after 30 days following pregnancy. The night I was "free" I got so blasted it was ridiculous I was exhausted and it didn't take much but I felt like someone who had just been released from prison.
And to prove I’m not upset haha, I tried to buy the baby girl a Harper shirt for this summer, which do not exist in baby sizes yet. Between the yanks, Phillies, tiger, golf in general and the shore, it’s been a long fucking time since I have been this excited about a summer
Ha. My wife had surgery when the 4 year old was a newborn. Another 30 days of bed rest, after 30 days following pregnancy. The night I was "free" I got so blasted it was ridiculous I was exhausted and it didn't take much but I felt like someone who had just been released from prison.
Dude, with everything that happened a week or so ago, then I have been sick for like the past week and after a fucking exhausting day yesterday I hit the bottle pretty good last night and have no fucking relief in sight today. Fuuuuuck
But yeah man. I got 3 more nights of this. I couldn’t imagine a month plus of that for you, let alone a lifetime for single parents.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,625
We are resilient creatures but I absolutely admire single parents. No off buttons/breaks
We are resilient creatures but I absolutely admire single parents. No off buttons/breaks
Good luck this week!
Yeah man. I have a few minutes of help this morning, which thank fucking God. But this is me waiting for her nap, expect for the Jim’s sandwiches part...
You will never get a better season than JDM and Mookie had this year for $36 mil on a $230 million payroll (one of the biggest ever), and a max of something like $175 mil promised. These guys were 25 and 30, no one promised money over anything over 35'ish
In an absolute perfect season with Trout and Harper, you will get the same production JD and Mookie had this year, yet paying double and promising about 20 more years and over half a billion more dollars in contracts. Again, in a baseball sense, of course it makes sense having the best players on the team, but i just don’t see it with the current structure.
I understand the point you are trying to make but you don't need seasons from two guys as good as JDM and Mookie were last year to win a title. You can have less years and still win. the key is owning your division. if you own the division it will give you years of chances to win titles like the Phils did from 2007-2011. You don't have to win 110 games in the regular season to win a title in baseball. and if you win a title or multiple titles no one is going to care what those 2 guys will make from age 35-40.
You will never get a better season than JDM and Mookie had this year for $36 mil on a $230 million payroll (one of the biggest ever), and a max of something like $175 mil promised. These guys were 25 and 30, no one promised money over anything over 35'ish
In an absolute perfect season with Trout and Harper, you will get the same production JD and Mookie had this year, yet paying double and promising about 20 more years and over half a billion more dollars in contracts. Again, in a baseball sense, of course it makes sense having the best players on the team, but i just don’t see it with the current structure.
I understand the point you are trying to make but you don't need seasons from two guys as good as JDM and Mookie were last year to win a title. You can have less years and still win. the key is owning your division. if you own the division it will give you years of chances to win titles like the Phils did from 2007-2011. You don't have to win 110 games in the regular season to win a title in baseball. and if you win a title or multiple titles no one is going to care what those 2 guys will make from age 35-40.
So that is exactly what I’m getting at too. The Red Sox didn’t win it all just because those two had those monster seasons but you’d be paying double to hope you get that production and you won’t. They won 110 or whatever games because of those seasons for sure
Best case scenario you do and you’ll win a ton of games but how much closer does that get to winning the World Series? You have your monster bats in Hoskins and Harper. Add pieces around them. If resources were unlimited, of course.
I’m getting at that I think if you have $40 million a year to spend, for this Phillies team knowing their payroll probably won’t exceed $225 million, that getting degrom and one of didi/Bogaerts/gennett, or something along those lines would be more valuable from a winning the World Series standpoint, especially with the phillies pitching staff and pipeline. And you’re not locked into almost a billion and 20 years. My point also isn’t caring about what they make, I want players to get all the money, it’s just about what those commitments restrict you from doing.
I’m arguing that realmuto, hoskins, Harper, Nola, degrom and someone like Xander and financial flexibility gives you a better shot at the world series than realmuto, Hoskins, Harper, trout, Nola and slop and every dollar forever accounted for This team is gonna score. The final piece is pitching and depth not the best player in the world haha.
89.5 o/u Just threw down on the over. Can't wait for March 28th
I think this number is so spot on. The NL East is going to be tough. I said I could see the Phillies having their win total start with an 8 and still go to the World Series. I could also see them missing the playoffs
in the next 5 years, the Yankees and Phillies are both going to win a World Series
One other thing on trout that has nothing to do with anything. Dude says he is moving back to Millville when he’s done with baseball. What a horrible fucking idea. You make a billion dollars so you don’t have to step foot in Millville again. I’d buy and island and name it Millville.
89.5 o/u Just threw down on the over. Can't wait for March 28th
I think this number is so spot on. The NL East is going to be tough. I said I could see the Phillies having their win total start with an 8 and still go to the World Series. I could also see them missing the playoffs
in the next 5 years, the Yankees and Phillies are both going to win a World Series
so 2009 all over again? (hopefully with different results )
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
One other thing on trout that has nothing to do with anything. Dude says he is moving back to Millville when he’s done with baseball. What a horrible fucking idea. You make a billion dollars so you don’t have to step foot in Millville again. I’d buy and island and name it Millville.
i laughed out loud at this. well done and so freakin true.
89.5 o/u Just threw down on the over. Can't wait for March 28th
I think this number is so spot on. The NL East is going to be tough. I said I could see the Phillies having their win total start with an 8 and still go to the World Series. I could also see them missing the playoffs
in the next 5 years, the Yankees and Phillies are both going to win a World Series
so 2009 all over again? (hopefully with different results )
Let’s go. I’m down. Not a different result in 2019. Maybe down the road but that’d be a clean sweep. Yanks wouldn’t even have to shower after.
Not to mention, this is his haircut. What the fuck is happening here?! Have him. Though do watch the video, he’ll give good insight into his favorite player. About the only good taste he has, it seems
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,287
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No two offensive players are winning anything alone. There is almost a zero percent chance that Trout and Harper have A SINGLE season as good as JDM and Betts had this year and they do not win the World Series without Sale, Price (gross), Evoldi, Kimbrel (I guess...), Bogearts, Pearce (he's trash), etc. Betts, who I love, hit under .220 in the playoffs. Everything in the world would have to come together for them to have a season like those two had this year and they'd both be 30'ish sooo maybe you get the absolute possible chance at 1 or 2 years of JDM and Mookie, but you're also committed for about 20 years and half a billion plus past that. The Phillies would be investing 3X or more what the Red Sox paid for that production. It sounds absolutely amazing, but rationally seems like a terrible idea outside of a potential 2-3 year period, AT MOST. Am I wrong?
Everything I said here applies to the Yankees as well with Judge and is clearly why they didn't have interest in Machado. I want the Yankees to extend Judge at like $180 mil until he's 33.
That said, I am soooo exited for baseball to be back in Philly.
Let me ask you in that case. Do you think that Harper and Trout at basically 30 and 30 will EVER have the season JDM and Betts just had at 25 and 31? And if so, were they personally responsible for ONE world series? And if you do, the Red Sox just had a payroll of $230 mil with those two getting a total of $35 mil, Trout and Harper would at absolute minimum be at $65 mil?
If I am building the Phillies, I think you have a world series core. Harper at $25 mil is amazing, but not amazing for Trout. He is amazing for extending Realmuto at $18 mil or something, Hoskins at $15 mil or something eventually. Getting more bullpen pieces. I love Drob but if you think this pen is a world series pen....come on. Getting more starters. Point is, $70 mil or whatever into 2 players in their 30-40 year old seasons is an absolute recipe for disaster. To tempo's point, name 5 players in baseball over 35 who are good. Could you imagine promising half a bil to 35-40 of two players?
Nola, Hoskins, Realmuto, Harper and Trout are at minimum $105 million in 2022
If you sign Trout and keep hoskins and have harper, I'm not sure they have the production of JDM/mookie thiis year for what is probably $75 million, assuming Hoskins is an absolute stud.
You are not getting two players better than JDM and Mookie in the same season. Find me how many times that has happened. Phillies have a stud core. I'd go for Xander over Segura, bump him to third, and get pitching. I think that's the play.
Names are sexy. World Series are what it's about
You will never get a better season than JDM and Mookie had this year for $36 mil on a $230 million payroll (one of the biggest ever), and a max of something like $175 mil promised. These guys were 25 and 30, no one promised money over anything over 35'ish
In an absolute perfect season with Trout and Harper, you will get the same production JD and Mookie had this year, yet paying double and promising about 20 more years and over half a billion more dollars in contracts. Again, in a baseball sense, of course it makes sense having the best players on the team, but i just don’t see it with the current structure.
Go Phils
The Boston comparison is perfect. For $700 million, you hope to get the season they just had out of two players one single time and you’d be severly hampered from doing anything else.
Its the same shit with the Yankees. Under the current structure, I don’t agree wth it, but they’re gonna have to keep Stanton and judge under a combined $40 or so million while the window is open to win. Anything more and you can’t build a $200 million team around it.
look at the World Series teams of the past 5 years compared to the last 20 of Yankees.
Edit: You guys know I fucking love baseball, and the economics of it and playing arm chair GM. I want nothing more than for teams to spend $300 mil on payroll and load the team with stars. Based on this offseason and the fact that all of the good teams in baseball with money did not make a big time signing, just tells me that multiple massive deals is not a way teams see as a way to win. I don’t agree with it but it’s baseball and the Yankees way of working is clearly dead
The night I was "free" I got so blasted it was ridiculous
I was exhausted and it didn't take much but I felt like someone who had just been released from prison.
But yeah man. I got 3 more nights of this. I couldn’t imagine a month plus of that for you, let alone a lifetime for single parents.
Good luck this week!
https://youtu.be/YUgHDXOdUos
Just threw down on the over. Can't wait for March 28th
Best case scenario you do and you’ll win a ton of games but how much closer does that get to winning the World Series? You have your monster bats in Hoskins and Harper. Add pieces around them. If resources were unlimited, of course.
I’m getting at that I think if you have $40 million a year to spend, for this Phillies team knowing their payroll probably won’t exceed $225 million, that getting degrom and one of didi/Bogaerts/gennett, or something along those lines would be more valuable from a winning the World Series standpoint, especially with the phillies pitching staff and pipeline. And you’re not locked into almost a billion and 20 years. My point also isn’t caring about what they make, I want players to get all the money, it’s just about what those commitments restrict you from doing.
I’m arguing that realmuto, hoskins, Harper, Nola, degrom and someone like Xander and financial flexibility gives you a better shot at the world series than realmuto, Hoskins, Harper, trout, Nola and slop and every dollar forever accounted for This team is gonna score. The final piece is pitching and depth not the best player in the world haha.
in the next 5 years, the Yankees and Phillies are both going to win a World Series
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
Also, I might take back what I said since you’ll probably have to sign trout considering you just gave the 3rd best player on an 82 win team 13 years
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer