Apple doesn't do it because it increases the cost of the device. iPod's have declined in popularity so most people are listing to their music on Iphones (or Ipads). Those devices have a wide variety of functions. Audio is only one of them. If they put a high quality DAC in the phone it would increase the cost of the device. Apple already charges quite a lot for their devices, and have a pretty big profit margin. They would either have to decrease their profit margin or increase the prices of the device. Not everyone is like us. Audiophiles are a small part of the general population. They are going to want to do this when only a percentage of the population would appreciate it. Apple also likes to appeal to the masses so they don't make that many version of their devices. I can't see them making a special audiophile edition or anything like that.
Apple's not the only once. In my previous comments I mentioned most (all?) of the other smartphone manufacturers do the same thing. Putting in high quality DAC's has an impact on the overall cost of the phone. You'll make more money putting in an ok once and leaving your profit margins bigger or keep your prices lower.
It's why I bought my Cowon a few years ago. It's primary function is to be a music player. Not a phone, not an internet capable device, it's designed to play music. I still feel it was worth the 270 I paid for it 4 years ago.
At this point I'm not sure a Pono would be for me. I have no interest in rebuying my albums in a digital format and my cowon already handles regular cd quality FLAC so I'm pretty content with it. The 32gb space is a bit small but I make do.
$300 (promo offer) for a portable, high quality audio player with expandable memory that can play almost all digital formats in tandem with its own online store isn't a bad deal at all. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. It might not be for everyone but it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to dominate all of digital music to be a success or to be a valid device.
From my perspective: What many people seem to be overlooking, likely after succumbing to the impressive marketing/hype machine: at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if it is iTunes AAC or FLAC, Death Magnetic's master is still Death Magnetic's master (to be blunt: a turd in losseless/FLAC is still a turd).
I agree with this. Not only that, but a lot of people have been recording digitally in the studio, so you won't get much of a difference.
On the other hand, groups like Neil Young, Foo Fighters, Nine Inch Nails, and others that have a passion for sound, there could be a huge difference in sound quality.
92 - Orlando
03 - Tampa
08 - Tampa
12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
From my perspective: What many people seem to be overlooking, likely after succumbing to the impressive marketing/hype machine: at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if it is iTunes AAC or FLAC, Death Magnetic's master is still Death Magnetic's master (to be blunt: a turd in losseless/FLAC is still a turd).
I agree with this. Not only that, but a lot of people have been recording digitally in the studio, so you won't get much of a difference.
On the other hand, groups like Neil Young, Foo Fighters, Nine Inch Nails, and others that have a passion for sound, there could be a huge difference in sound quality.
IT's funny because 99.9% of the people in the world can't hear any difference between CD Quality and the 192kHz/24-bit audio. The ones that do most likely "think" they hear a difference...but scientifically...they probably don't...lol.
I Know All The Rules But The Rules Do Not Know Me.
The fact is, if Pono is successful, Apple can just turn around and offer higher quality music files on iTunes, offer a device that can play it, and wipe Pono off the face of the earth.
Steve Jobs might have led the team that created iTunes, but it is widely known he listened to records at his house.
I don't think this will happen. High quality digital music is a niche market and Apple has no interest in niche markets, they want mass product. Also, Ipod/Iphones would have to be much bigger in size to be able to offer good quality sound (like PONO) and I really don't see that happen.
They already have 160GB iPods. They have their own HD audio file (which you can find on places like Nugs). Their iPhones can already play higher quality files. It wouldn't take much for them to make this jump and if it means they can wipe out a competitor, why wouldn't they do it?
I am not talking about the size of the hard drive but the physical size of the device. HiFi Audio Amp are much bigger than lowfi ones for a reason. Yes Iphones can play higher quality files (although they are still low quality compared to PONO) but they cannot deliver the sound. It's like comparing a lowfisystem with a high end audiophile system.
One great solution would be a free Pono download with vinyl purchase. Problem solved for me.
vinyl is a very limited market even if they offer this "deal" everything is itune singles these days. people aren't even buying cds like they use to. pono must compete with itunes and it should be a hellofa battle for them=we might win in the end but i aint' jumping on board right away i believe in the basics of pono but i'm also sick and tired for paying too much for cds(new releases). they should be $9.99 MAX IMO good luck pono but you will find the consumer will set this price. not you!
I think you're forgetting about the value of niche markets. Artists find value in releasing vinyl, which obviously compete with the digital market too... No reason why Pono can't go along the same lines as a profitable format. It isn't beat itunes or die.
Project Update #11: A Note from our CEO Posted by the PonoMusic Team Black heart (cards) Like
Saturday morning – just checked the site, and again, I’m gratified and thrilled to see the support for PonoMusic. Thank you.
We are honored by your interest, your passion for the movement we are leading, and your trust in us to deliver on our promise.
I want to shed some light on a few things that are trending in the comments and question boards -
(1) Many of your have inquired through the campaign about joining our team. We are looking for talented superstars in San Francisco who believe in our cause and want to pour their heart and souls into PonoMusic.
If you are interested please e-mail your resume to jobs@ponomusic.com.
These are some of the positions we’re currently trying to fill:
• Android app developers
• Ruby on Rails developers
• Quality Assurance engineers – both software and hardware
• QA automation engineers – especially for web services
(2) As you probably know, Kickstarter is NOT an online storefront. It's a donation-based crowdfunding platform, which only allows a single reward per donation per account. Many Kickstarter campaigns have their higher-level rewards include items from lower-level pledges. Therefore, there is no confusion regarding backers being limited to one reward. Due to the unique nature of our campaign, our desire to keep PonoPlayer costs down, and the fact that we offer numerous PonoPlayer rewards of different colors and editions, our higher level rewards do not include the lower level pledge items such as T-shirts or posters. Therefore, it is necessary to create a second Kickstarter account (linked to the same Amazon account) to pledge for a second reward of any kind. We will, as noted, offer all of this great PonoMusic “merchandise” on our own website, PonoMusic.com, shortly after the Kickstarter campaign ends.
(3) While we’ve accomplished a lot in the last couple years with a very small team and an amazing group of partners, we chose the Kickstarter platform to reach out to a broad group of like-minded music lovers for the support we need to finish the final details of the PonoPlayer design and take it to volume manufacturing. We will launch a revolutionary company that we all can be proud of and keep improving for years to come. We have a tall order ahead, and the more funds pledged, the more resources we can deploy in the engineering and production of the PonoPlayer and the design and construction of the PonoMusic website and Store – both pretty big jobs. Our goals are ambitious, and we can assure you that every dollar pledged in this campaign will be carefully invested to make the PonoMusic experience the best it can be. This is an effort that can consume a healthy chunk of money, done properly. For more info on this topic, please see "Risks and Challenges" at the bottom of our Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music.
(4) The PonoMusic.com store will be active in US, UK, and Canada at launch. We will be working with the music labels to gain the legal rights to expand internationally as quickly as we can thereafter. The PonoPlayer plays a wide variety of audio formats and makes them all sound great, so if you have your own CD quality (or better) digital music, you can enjoy the PonoPlayer immediately. We will have instructions and videos on our website that will explain how to transfer your existing music into the PonoMusic desktop App and synch it with your PonoPlayer. Please see our FAQ for additional details.
(5) Some donors have had questions about international shipping—specifically, that the shipping fee does not appear properly in their donation. You are free to adjust your pledge to include international shipping as long as our project is still not finalized. To do so, visit the project page and click the blue "Manage your Pledge" button right above the Rewards on the right side of the page. Enter the amount of your pledge (generally the amount of the preferred reward tier) and the cost of shipping in the "Pledge amount" field. We ask for international donors to add on $15 to their donation. As an example, if your desired reward tier is set at $300, you should donate $315 and then click continue. You'll be asked to confirm the new pledge amount, and the credit card you wish to pledge with. Thanks for your patience with this long update to our community today… I felt there were some really important posts about these topics on the site and I wanted to address them directly.
In closing, I want everyone to know that as much as we appreciate the financial support on this campaign. The things we have learned from you guys in the last 2 weeks are equally, if not more valuable, long term. We are learning so much about what you guys want, how to communicate our message better, and what things we should focus on after this Kickstarter campaign ends to better meet your expectations and hopes. We take all of this to heart, and to me, this info is “priceless.” I don’t know how I could ever mobilize a focus group of 14,000+ people to help us refine the PonoMusic offering. Please keep your ideas coming. I am truly grateful for your engagement, your great creativity, and mostly, your passion for what we are in the midst of creating here, with all of you.
Anyone still F5'ing for a Pearl Jam Pono Player? Good luck!
I'm hearing there might be a Bruce Springsteen one coming. If that's true, keep an eye out for drops.
True. Also, some advice for scoring one:
Become a backer first. Even if it's just a dollar, that's fine. Once you're a backer, you can go into the "manage your pledge" area. From there, you can scroll down to the Pearl Jam Pono offer and hover your curser while F5'ing. From there it's just one more click at the bottom of the page and you're done. No need to re-enter any personal info or log into Amazon and the switch happens very fast. This is much more efficient and streamlined than using the regular donation page. Good luck!
Actually, do not pledge a dollar. That will create more unnecessary steps causing you to have to make a donation adjustment should you score a PJ. Just pledge for any other $400 Pono to become a backer. That way you won't have to manually adjust your donation amount should a PJ pop up. You can always cancel your pledge later if you don't get a PJ and don't want the one you pledged for. Hope this all makes sense.
IT's funny because 99.9% of the people in the world can't hear any difference between CD Quality and the 192kHz/24-bit audio. The ones that do most likely "think" they hear a difference...but scientifically...they probably don't...lol.
Yah you'd need really good IEM's or headphones to hear any difference as well. So you'll need a $400 pair of IEM's on top of the PONO.
That being a said the PONO would probably be worth it for the high quality DAC. Something that doesn't come standard on smartphones. Even if you rip your own albums to CD quality flac you're going to notice quite the improvement over listening on a nexus, iphone or galaxy device.
$300 doesn't seem way out there. Cowon's are around 270. If my Cowon dies I could seem myself buying a PONO.
hmm. might be great. but i don't see too many people going out and repurchasing their entire music collections in this format.
I don't plan on purchasing the entire catalog, but a select few albums... you betcha. Not only that but bands are starting to put high def downloads with their Vinyl (Nine Inch Nails, Led Zeppelin, PJ boots)
92 - Orlando
03 - Tampa
08 - Tampa
12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
Or The Who; Page, Plant, and Jones; Rolling Stones; Rogers and Gilmour! There are still some heavy hitters out there that would probably sell out faster than Neil Young himself!
hmm. might be great. but i don't see too many people going out and repurchasing their entire music collections in this format.
The device supports many formats including different quality encodings of FLAC. You can make your CD quality flac's from your cd collection and not pay a dime.
Unlike Apple this device doesn't seem to have issues with using widly accepted drm free open source formats.
I feel bad for the Teegan and Tara group. I've never heard of them, but at this point, only 22 people bought a Pono with their signatures on it.
I still see room for Bruce and Nine Inch Nails as an artist series. I would say U2, but they did the iPod ad not too long ago.
Those three would be great. Some of the suggestions in the kickstarter comments are embarrassingly bad. Everything from an obscure Russian violinist to a pink "My Little Pono" edition.
I feel bad for the Teegan and Tara group. I've never heard of them, but at this point, only 22 people bought a Pono with their signatures on it.
I still see room for Bruce and Nine Inch Nails as an artist series. I would say U2, but they did the iPod ad not too long ago.
I saw Teegan and Sarah open for some show once and they were terrible on several different levels. I'm surprised 22 are gone... Probably all for the band and their family members.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I saw Teegan and Sarah open for some show once and they were terrible on several different levels. I'm surprised 22 are gone... Probably all for the band and their family members.
I feel bad for the Teegan and Tara group. I've never heard of them, but at this point, only 22 people bought a Pono with their signatures on it.
I still see room for Bruce and Nine Inch Nails as an artist series. I would say U2, but they did the iPod ad not too long ago.
I saw Teegan and Sarah open for some show once and they were terrible on several different levels. I'm surprised 22 are gone... Probably all for the band and their family members.
No love for T&S? I just started getting into them. They harmonize nicely together.
As for a PONO? Their fan base isn't that big. Broke hipsters is their marketing...
"There's a $10,000 bill in it for you."
"Oh yeah? Which president's on it?"
"Uh, all of them. They're having a party. Jimmy Carter's passed out on the couch."
ARTIST SIGNATURE SERIES: BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD – Limited Edition Artist PonoPlayer in Chrome. Laser engraved with artist's signature. Comes pre-loaded with artist's top two favorite albums. Handmade leather case with presentation box.
ARTIST SIGNATURE SERIES: BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD – Limited Edition Artist PonoPlayer in Chrome. Laser engraved with artist's signature. Comes pre-loaded with artist's top two favorite albums. Handmade leather case with presentation box.
Man these guys are tempting me...
Just do it! I want to have more people to bullshit about this thing with (and it will make me feel less crazy for dropping $400 on kickstarter...)
Binaural would sound amazing on this. So would Yield, Riot Act, No Code, and Vitalogy. (Just saying)
"There's a $10,000 bill in it for you."
"Oh yeah? Which president's on it?"
"Uh, all of them. They're having a party. Jimmy Carter's passed out on the couch."
Comments
Apple's not the only once. In my previous comments I mentioned most (all?) of the other smartphone manufacturers do the same thing. Putting in high quality DAC's has an impact on the overall cost of the phone. You'll make more money putting in an ok once and leaving your profit margins bigger or keep your prices lower.
It's why I bought my Cowon a few years ago. It's primary function is to be a music player. Not a phone, not an internet capable device, it's designed to play music. I still feel it was worth the 270 I paid for it 4 years ago.
At this point I'm not sure a Pono would be for me. I have no interest in rebuying my albums in a digital format and my cowon already handles regular cd quality FLAC so I'm pretty content with it. The 32gb space is a bit small but I make do.
On the other hand, groups like Neil Young, Foo Fighters, Nine Inch Nails, and others that have a passion for sound, there could be a huge difference in sound quality.
03 - Tampa
08 - Tampa
12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
Posted by the PonoMusic Team Black heart (cards) Like
Saturday morning – just checked the site, and again, I’m gratified and thrilled to see the support for PonoMusic. Thank you.
We are honored by your interest, your passion for the movement we are leading, and your trust in us to deliver on our promise.
I want to shed some light on a few things that are trending in the comments and question boards -
(1) Many of your have inquired through the campaign about joining our team. We are looking for talented superstars in San Francisco who believe in our cause and want to pour their heart and souls into PonoMusic.
If you are interested please e-mail your resume to jobs@ponomusic.com.
These are some of the positions we’re currently trying to fill:
• Android app developers
• Ruby on Rails developers
• Quality Assurance engineers – both software and hardware
• QA automation engineers – especially for web services
(2) As you probably know, Kickstarter is NOT an online storefront. It's a donation-based crowdfunding platform, which only allows a single reward per donation per account. Many Kickstarter campaigns have their higher-level rewards include items from lower-level pledges. Therefore, there is no confusion regarding backers being limited to one reward. Due to the unique nature of our campaign, our desire to keep PonoPlayer costs down, and the fact that we offer numerous PonoPlayer rewards of different colors and editions, our higher level rewards do not include the lower level pledge items such as T-shirts or posters. Therefore, it is necessary to create a second Kickstarter account (linked to the same Amazon account) to pledge for a second reward of any kind. We will, as noted, offer all of this great PonoMusic “merchandise” on our own website, PonoMusic.com, shortly after the Kickstarter campaign ends.
(3) While we’ve accomplished a lot in the last couple years with a very small team and an amazing group of partners, we chose the Kickstarter platform to reach out to a broad group of like-minded music lovers for the support we need to finish the final details of the PonoPlayer design and take it to volume manufacturing. We will launch a revolutionary company that we all can be proud of and keep improving for years to come. We have a tall order ahead, and the more funds pledged, the more resources we can deploy in the engineering and production of the PonoPlayer and the design and construction of the PonoMusic website and Store – both pretty big jobs. Our goals are ambitious, and we can assure you that every dollar pledged in this campaign will be carefully invested to make the PonoMusic experience the best it can be. This is an effort that can consume a healthy chunk of money, done properly. For more info on this topic, please see "Risks and Challenges" at the bottom of our Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music.
(4) The PonoMusic.com store will be active in US, UK, and Canada at launch. We will be working with the music labels to gain the legal rights to expand internationally as quickly as we can thereafter. The PonoPlayer plays a wide variety of audio formats and makes them all sound great, so if you have your own CD quality (or better) digital music, you can enjoy the PonoPlayer immediately. We will have instructions and videos on our website that will explain how to transfer your existing music into the PonoMusic desktop App and synch it with your PonoPlayer. Please see our FAQ for additional details.
(5) Some donors have had questions about international shipping—specifically, that the shipping fee does not appear properly in their donation. You are free to adjust your pledge to include international shipping as long as our project is still not finalized. To do so, visit the project page and click the blue "Manage your Pledge" button right above the Rewards on the right side of the page. Enter the amount of your pledge (generally the amount of the preferred reward tier) and the cost of shipping in the "Pledge amount" field. We ask for international donors to add on $15 to their donation. As an example, if your desired reward tier is set at $300, you should donate $315 and then click continue. You'll be asked to confirm the new pledge amount, and the credit card you wish to pledge with. Thanks for your patience with this long update to our community today… I felt there were some really important posts about these topics on the site and I wanted to address them directly.
In closing, I want everyone to know that as much as we appreciate the financial support on this campaign. The things we have learned from you guys in the last 2 weeks are equally, if not more valuable, long term. We are learning so much about what you guys want, how to communicate our message better, and what things we should focus on after this Kickstarter campaign ends to better meet your expectations and hopes. We take all of this to heart, and to me, this info is “priceless.” I don’t know how I could ever mobilize a focus group of 14,000+ people to help us refine the PonoMusic offering. Please keep your ideas coming. I am truly grateful for your engagement, your great creativity, and mostly, your passion for what we are in the midst of creating here, with all of you.
Thank you.
Have a great weekend… John.
I'm hearing there might be a Bruce Springsteen one coming. If that's true, keep an eye out for drops.
Become a backer first. Even if it's just a dollar, that's fine. Once you're a backer, you can go into the "manage your pledge" area. From there, you can scroll down to the Pearl Jam Pono offer and hover your curser while F5'ing. From there it's just one more click at the bottom of the page and you're done. No need to re-enter any personal info or log into Amazon and the switch happens very fast. This is much more efficient and streamlined than using the regular donation page. Good luck!
That being a said the PONO would probably be worth it for the high quality DAC. Something that doesn't come standard on smartphones. Even if you rip your own albums to CD quality flac you're going to notice quite the improvement over listening on a nexus, iphone or galaxy device.
$300 doesn't seem way out there. Cowon's are around 270. If my Cowon dies I could seem myself buying a PONO.
03 - Tampa
08 - Tampa
12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
I still see room for Bruce and Nine Inch Nails as an artist series. I would say U2, but they did the iPod ad not too long ago.
03 - Tampa
08 - Tampa
12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
Unlike Apple this device doesn't seem to have issues with using widly accepted drm free open source formats.
As for a PONO? Their fan base isn't that big. Broke hipsters is their marketing...
"Oh yeah? Which president's on it?"
"Uh, all of them. They're having a party. Jimmy Carter's passed out on the couch."
Columbus 2000
Columbus 2003
Hershey 2003
Toledo 2004
Cincinnati 2006
Chicago/Lollapalooza 2007
Columbus 2010
Chicago/Wrigley 2013
Pittsburgh 2013
Portland 2013
Cincinnati 2014
Man these guys are tempting me...
Binaural would sound amazing on this. So would Yield, Riot Act, No Code, and Vitalogy. (Just saying)
"Oh yeah? Which president's on it?"
"Uh, all of them. They're having a party. Jimmy Carter's passed out on the couch."
Columbus 2000
Columbus 2003
Hershey 2003
Toledo 2004
Cincinnati 2006
Chicago/Lollapalooza 2007
Columbus 2010
Chicago/Wrigley 2013
Pittsburgh 2013
Portland 2013
Cincinnati 2014