Check this out. Thank G-d and thank the IDF this mission was successful. These weapons could have caused catastrophic damage to people all over Israel, Christians, Arabs, and Jews. I know a little while ago there was a lot of press when Israel intercepted another boat trying to break the blockade, just to prove a point. Unfortunately there were casualties. I don't want to bring that issue up again because I know people have strong opinions on it. But it surprises me that this makes no news. And no one seems to care. But this proves the idea that all vessels must be checked because weapons are being smuggled in.
Israel would never play both sides of the same coin....would they? What a joke.
And let's not forget the doctored videos of the Mavi Mamara incident. Those videos were shown all over the World to try and pretend that the Israeli's came under attack when boarding those ships. They were later proven to be complete fabrications. But I suppose a multi-million dollar public relations industry needs to find something to do with it's time and it's money.
[quote="Byrnzie"][quote="CJMST3K"]To roughly quote Ed from Tibetan Freedom Concert during Rockin' In The Free World:
"Don't buy it from China, could be prison labor... Keep on rockin' in the free world".
Couldn't the same thing be said of the U.S?[/quote]If Ed sung "Don't buy from United States, could be prison labor" then I would agree with you. But he didn't.[/quote]
Unfortunately the way to deal with China and the Chinese government isn't to ignore them and bury your head in the sand. China isn't going anywhere. it can only be a good thing if Pearl Jam play here. If they don't play here then nothing changes. Period.
Newsflash! Nothing will change after this concert either. People just wanna see the bands perform and thats it. Just like tibetan freedom concerts, live aid, farm aid and so on....
I don't subscribe to that negative attitude.
Even if just one person get's inspired by the concert then at least that's something. I doubt that many Chinese are aware of the issues at stake re:the environment. I could be wrong, but I expect that the numbers of people here who are knowledgeable about environmental issues are far fewer than that in the West. So a concert like this can only be a good thing and may help generate some positive action further down the line.
Oh the hypocrisy thats been going on in this thread
Wow, you've got such a hard-on for me. How long did it take you to find that 4 year old thread? Are you stalking me?
What are you gonna do after I've left China next month? Seriously. I'll be passing through six S.E Asian countries over the next year or so, so I suggest you get to work immediately learning all about the history of these countries, and their foreign policies, so that you can try and deflect my criticisms of Israel and the U.S. )
By the way, the Earth Day concert in China was aimed at spreading awareness of environmental issues. A perfectly legitimate reason to perform there. And If Ed, or someone else in the band, had objected to playing here due to the actions of the Chinese in Tibet, then I'd have totally understood it.
But don't let that stop you frothing at the mouth about China. It's getting funnier by the day.
By the way, the Earth Day concert in China was aimed at spreading awareness of environmental issues. A perfectly legitimate reason to perform there. And If Ed, or someone else in the band, had objected to playing here due to the actions of the Chinese in Tibet, then I'd have totally understood it.
So than it wouldn't be a problem for you if Pearl Jam were to play a Earth day concert in Israel?
By the way, the Earth Day concert in China was aimed at spreading awareness of environmental issues. A perfectly legitimate reason to perform there. And If Ed, or someone else in the band, had objected to playing here due to the actions of the Chinese in Tibet, then I'd have totally understood it.
So than it wouldn't be a problem for you if Pearl Jam were to play a Earth day concert in Israel?
It would be a problem, because there's no comparison. China isn't engaged in a 45 year old ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing and land-theft.
And you didn't answer my question. I asked you what you're gonna spout off about after I've left China next month. Considering how you stalk me all over the forums and try to turn every thread topic into being all about me, and all about China - even though I'm not Chinese, I wanna know what you're gonna squawk about when I leave this country next month. Shall I give you a country-by-country breakdown of all the places I'm gonna be traveling through so you can go and Google each one's political situation and human rights records?
By the way, the Earth Day concert in China was aimed at spreading awareness of environmental issues. A perfectly legitimate reason to perform there. And If Ed, or someone else in the band, had objected to playing here due to the actions of the Chinese in Tibet, then I'd have totally understood it.
So than it wouldn't be a problem for you if Pearl Jam were to play a Earth day concert in Israel?
It would be a problem, because there's no comparison. China isn't engaged in a 45 year old ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing and land-theft.
You're kidding right?
Over 1.2 million Tibetans have died as a direct result of the Chinese invasion and occupation of Tibet
And you didn't answer my question. I asked you what you're gonna spout off about after I've left China next month. Considering how you stalk me all over the forums and try to turn every thread topic into being all about me, and all about China
Stalking thats pretty funny you really think too much of yourself
And you didn't answer my question. I asked you what you're gonna spout off about after I've left China next month. Considering how you stalk me all over the forums and try to turn every thread topic into being all about me, and all about China
Stalking thats pretty funny you really think too much of yourself
Tibet isn't recognized at the U.N as an independent country. Not only that, but the Dalai Lama isn't seeking Tibetan independence, but greater Tibetan autonomy within China.
It's interesting that you think China and Israel can be compared, considering completely different. Though in retrospect I actually agree with a boycott of China too, considering the ongoing human-rights abuses in Tibet and Xinjiang, which have gotten worse over the past few years. And I don't think festivals are the way to educate people on environmental issues and to precipitate change. That needs to come from above, not below.
So you see nothing wrong with the Chinese killing and taking from Tibet because they aren't recognized as an independent country? I think that you either didn't think your comment all the way out, or you are just completely blind in your own hypocrisy. Sorry, just had to say it.
So you see nothing wrong with the Chinese killing and taking from Tibet because they aren't recognized as an independent country? I think that you either didn't think your comment all the way out, or you are just completely blind in your own hypocrisy. Sorry, just had to say it.
Is that what I said? Or are you just making shit up?
Following your conversation with Bronx Bombers, when China was brought up (which you had posted support for Pearl Jam to play in) on how they have and continue to treat the Tibetans, your reply was that they are not a UN recognized country. It's called reading comprehension. I do like how when you are not able to post links to support whatever notion you believe to be as the absolute truth, you get flustered and refer to people as stalkers, tell them to keep stroking it, or the good ol' "I didn't say that" routine. You sir are a class act.
But you did go back and edit your post adding the second paragraph. I quoted your unedited first reply, so again I stand by reply, you obviously didn't think your post through (judging by you going back and editing) and using reading comprehension, you are a hypocrite.
Following your conversation with Bronx Bombers, when China was brought up (which you had posted support for Pearl Jam to play in) on how they have and continue to treat the Tibetans, your reply was that they are not a UN recognized country. It's called reading comprehension. I do like how when you are not able to post links to support whatever notion you believe to be as the absolute truth, you get flustered and refer to people as stalkers, tell them to keep stroking it, or the good ol' "I didn't say that" routine. You sir are a class act.
Who's flustered? I posted support for them playing an Earth Day festival in China four years ago, which was aimed at spreading environmental awareness to one of the Worlds biggest polluters, and a country that's in a position to implement wide-ranging environmental solutions and technologies. It had nothing to do with Tibet, which is not recognized as being under foreign occupation. Still, I've since changed my mind about supporting bands performing here, and wouldn't encourage them to in light of the Chinese treatment of Tibetans and Uighurs over the past few years. But that still doesn't change the fact that the situations in Israel and China are completely different.
Funny how you rely on a four year old thread to attempt to discredit me though. Just shows how desperate you are. Oh, and your pathetic reference to my supporting what I say with source material - maybe that counts as criticism in Dumbville? - doesn't make you look clever, it makes you look like a dick.
Keep up the personal attacks. You clearly have nothing else up your sleeve.
I quoted your unedited first reply, so again I stand by reply, you obviously didn't think your post through (judging by you going back and editing) and using reading comprehension, you are a hypocrite.
IMaybe you'll get the opportunity to call me a hypocrite to my face one day, Internet tough guy.
Hahahaha, listen to yourself here. You feel better? You get it all out? You are one highly entertaining guy, and after all that you call me an internet tough guy!? You have actually made me laugh out loud, thanks man.
Hahahaha, listen to yourself here. You feel better? You get it all out? You are one highly entertaining guy, and after all that you call me an internet tough guy!? You have actually made me laugh out loud, thanks man.
Israel was founded on terrorism and ethnic clensing, and the Zionist dream of ethnic Nationalism has continued a-pace ever since, with illegal racist, Jewish-only settlements continuing to be built on land stoeln from the Palestinians as we speak.
Do you people cheering for Pearl Jam to play there really think a band such as this will perform in such a country, thereby giving it their tacit support? The members of Pearl Jam never struck me as the type of people to cheer racial supremacy, apartheid policies, and ethnic cleansing.
'...It should be observed that the Jewish agency in Palestine declared itself a state on May 14, 1948. It was the next day, May 15 that the first of five Arab armies or contingents of armies entered Palestine. Thus, approximately half of the 1948 refugees fled or were extirpated before the first foreign Arab soldier set foot in Palestine. The time line is important: the Deir Yassin Massacre occurred on April 9, the expulsion of Arabs from the cities of Jaffe, Haifa, Tiberias, and Safid occurred at the end of April and in the first days of May. The flight of the Palestinian refugees, thus, was not set in motion by the entrance of the Arab armies as is often claimed.
Nor should we take from Mr Ben Gurion’s statement that the concept of Palestinian evacuation was confined to the years 1947 – 1948. The concept of transfer of the indigenous Arab population to make way for a Jewish state was intrinsic to the thinking of the Zionist leaders from its initial inception.
Thus Theodor Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, said in 1892:
'[We shall] spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.'
And in 1937, Ben Gurion stated:
'The compulsory transfer of Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own feet during the days of the First and Second Temple.'
And in a letter to his son, also in 1937, he stated:
"We must expel the Arabs and take their places and if we have to use force, to guarantee our own right to settle in those places then we have force at our disposal."
And in early 1948 Ben Gurion wrote in his War Diary,
"During the assault we must be ready to strike the decisive blow; that is, either to destroy the towns or expel its inhabitants so our people can replace them."
And in February 1948, Ben Gurion told Yoseph Weitz, director of the settlement of the Jewish National Fund and head of the official Transfer Committee of 1948:
'The war will give us land. The concept of ‘ours’ and ‘not ours’ are peace concepts, only, in war they lose their whole meaning.'
In fact, the concept of transfer, a euphemism for expulsion, was embraced by the entire Jewish leadership from the earliest stages of Zionism until the 1948 extirpation of the indigenous population. Transfer committees were actually set up from 1937 on until 1948 in order to study ways of riding Palestine of as many Arabs as possible.
By the end of the 1948 War, hundreds of Arab villages had been completely depopulated. Their house and buildings were bulldozed of blown up primarily for the purpose of preventing the return of their owners. Benny Morris lists 369 Palestinian villages and towns destroyed, while Professor Walid Khalidi, leading a team of field researchers, in an exhaustive study, describes the destruction of each of 418 villages or hamlets which are listed on an index of Palestinian cities of 1945.
Byrnzie,I watched a show the other night on advancement in Medical Marijauna.Israel is on the leading edge of research.This is a good thing.But while watching I kept looking for signs of a society that is secular to a fault.Im calling bullshit dude.I saw almost equally as many Arab type folks working hand and hand with Jewish folk.All slave labor I guess??Seems to me many people are already living peacefully together.
Byrnzie,I watched a show the other night on advancement in Medical Marijauna.Israel is on the leading edge of research.This is a good thing.But while watching I kept looking for signs of a society that is secular to a fault.Im calling bullshit dude.I saw almost equally as many Arab type folks working hand and hand with Jewish folk.All slave labor I guess??Seems to me many people are already living peacefully together.
Secularism refers to a State in which the government and religion are separated. That's not the case with Israel, which is asking that it be recognized as a Jewish State.
And I already posted a long list of discriminatory policies in place inside Israel, right here in this thread. Maybe you should take a look at them? (Oh, sorry, I forgot; you're not interested in facts backed up by sources. You're just interested in opinions, right?).
One more thing, the show you watched on t.v: did it show you what life is like in the occupied Palestinian territories?
As far as life in the "occupied territories", their own "governments" own that responsibility.
No they don't. The occupying power is responsible for those under occupation.
http://www.btselem.org/publications/201306_area_c Israel [...] violates the essential obligations of international humanitarian law, namely: to safeguard occupied territory on a temporary basis; to refrain from altering the area or exploiting its resources to benefit the occupying power; and, most importantly, to undertake to fulfill the needs of the local residents and respect their rights.
Like a Phoenix this thread reappears from the depths of the interwebs.I thought after SG plays Isreal this summer it would have come back to life .Please Byrnzie entertain us!
Some of these same people are getting all upset cos Macklemore wore a wig and a big fake nose prosthetic at a show. They said he was being anti semetic and it's all over the media. He wasn't. He was just being a rock star. But they're weirdo quiet about innocents being shot on a daily basis. So completely screwed up.
Some of these same people are getting all upset cos Macklemore wore a wig and a big fake nose prosthetic at a show. They said he was being anti semetic and it's all over the media. He wasn't. He was just being a rock star. But they're weirdo quiet about innocents being shot on a daily basis. So completely screwed up.
I find it strange I didn't hear anything about this until recently. Israel's former Prime Minister sentenced to 6 years for bribery & corruption to approve controversial housing settlements? Where's the outrage?!
Comments
But I suppose a multi-million dollar public relations industry needs to find something to do with it's time and it's money.
Unfortunately the way to deal with China and the Chinese government isn't to ignore them and bury your head in the sand. China isn't going anywhere. it can only be a good thing if Pearl Jam play here. If they don't play here then nothing changes. Period. I don't subscribe to that negative attitude.
Even if just one person get's inspired by the concert then at least that's something. I doubt that many Chinese are aware of the issues at stake re:the environment. I could be wrong, but I expect that the numbers of people here who are knowledgeable about environmental issues are far fewer than that in the West. So a concert like this can only be a good thing and may help generate some positive action further down the line.
http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/121471/pearl-jam-to-play-china-in-april
Oh the hypocrisy thats been going on in this thread
What are you gonna do after I've left China next month? Seriously. I'll be passing through six S.E Asian countries over the next year or so, so I suggest you get to work immediately learning all about the history of these countries, and their foreign policies, so that you can try and deflect my criticisms of Israel and the U.S.
By the way, the Earth Day concert in China was aimed at spreading awareness of environmental issues. A perfectly legitimate reason to perform there. And If Ed, or someone else in the band, had objected to playing here due to the actions of the Chinese in Tibet, then I'd have totally understood it.
But don't let that stop you frothing at the mouth about China. It's getting funnier by the day.
And you didn't answer my question. I asked you what you're gonna spout off about after I've left China next month. Considering how you stalk me all over the forums and try to turn every thread topic into being all about me, and all about China - even though I'm not Chinese, I wanna know what you're gonna squawk about when I leave this country next month. Shall I give you a country-by-country breakdown of all the places I'm gonna be traveling through so you can go and Google each one's political situation and human rights records?
You're kidding right?
Over 1.2 million Tibetans have died as a direct result of the Chinese invasion and occupation of Tibet
http://www.friendsoftibet.org/databank/tibethistory/tibeth2.html
http://www.freetibet.org/about/facts-about-tibet Stalking thats pretty funny you really think too much of yourself
Tibet isn't recognized at the U.N as an independent country. Not only that, but the Dalai Lama isn't seeking Tibetan independence, but greater Tibetan autonomy within China.
It's interesting that you think China and Israel can be compared, considering completely different. Though in retrospect I actually agree with a boycott of China too, considering the ongoing human-rights abuses in Tibet and Xinjiang, which have gotten worse over the past few years. And I don't think festivals are the way to educate people on environmental issues and to precipitate change. That needs to come from above, not below.
Anyway, keep stroking that hard-on.
Who's flustered? I posted support for them playing an Earth Day festival in China four years ago, which was aimed at spreading environmental awareness to one of the Worlds biggest polluters, and a country that's in a position to implement wide-ranging environmental solutions and technologies. It had nothing to do with Tibet, which is not recognized as being under foreign occupation. Still, I've since changed my mind about supporting bands performing here, and wouldn't encourage them to in light of the Chinese treatment of Tibetans and Uighurs over the past few years. But that still doesn't change the fact that the situations in Israel and China are completely different.
Funny how you rely on a four year old thread to attempt to discredit me though. Just shows how desperate you are. Oh, and your pathetic reference to my supporting what I say with source material - maybe that counts as criticism in Dumbville? - doesn't make you look clever, it makes you look like a dick.
Keep up the personal attacks. You clearly have nothing else up your sleeve.
IMaybe you'll get the opportunity to call me a hypocrite to my face one day, Internet tough guy.
Carry on.
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
Do you people cheering for Pearl Jam to play there really think a band such as this will perform in such a country, thereby giving it their tacit support? The members of Pearl Jam never struck me as the type of people to cheer racial supremacy, apartheid policies, and ethnic cleansing.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2005/03/11/ben-gurion-quot-we-must-expel-the-arabs-and-take-their-place-quot/
'...It should be observed that the Jewish agency in Palestine declared itself a state on May 14, 1948. It was the next day, May 15 that the first of five Arab armies or contingents of armies entered Palestine. Thus, approximately half of the 1948 refugees fled or were extirpated before the first foreign Arab soldier set foot in Palestine. The time line is important: the Deir Yassin Massacre occurred on April 9, the expulsion of Arabs from the cities of Jaffe, Haifa, Tiberias, and Safid occurred at the end of April and in the first days of May. The flight of the Palestinian refugees, thus, was not set in motion by the entrance of the Arab armies as is often claimed.
Nor should we take from Mr Ben Gurion’s statement that the concept of Palestinian evacuation was confined to the years 1947 – 1948. The concept of transfer of the indigenous Arab population to make way for a Jewish state was intrinsic to the thinking of the Zionist leaders from its initial inception.
Thus Theodor Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, said in 1892:
'[We shall] spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.'
And in 1937, Ben Gurion stated:
'The compulsory transfer of Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own feet during the days of the First and Second Temple.'
And in a letter to his son, also in 1937, he stated:
"We must expel the Arabs and take their places and if we have to use force, to guarantee our own right to settle in those places then we have force at our disposal."
And in early 1948 Ben Gurion wrote in his War Diary,
"During the assault we must be ready to strike the decisive blow; that is, either to destroy the towns or expel its inhabitants so our people can replace them."
And in February 1948, Ben Gurion told Yoseph Weitz, director of the settlement of the Jewish National Fund and head of the official Transfer Committee of 1948:
'The war will give us land. The concept of ‘ours’ and ‘not ours’ are peace concepts, only, in war they lose their whole meaning.'
In fact, the concept of transfer, a euphemism for expulsion, was embraced by the entire Jewish leadership from the earliest stages of Zionism until the 1948 extirpation of the indigenous population. Transfer committees were actually set up from 1937 on until 1948 in order to study ways of riding Palestine of as many Arabs as possible.
By the end of the 1948 War, hundreds of Arab villages had been completely depopulated. Their house and buildings were bulldozed of blown up primarily for the purpose of preventing the return of their owners. Benny Morris lists 369 Palestinian villages and towns destroyed, while Professor Walid Khalidi, leading a team of field researchers, in an exhaustive study, describes the destruction of each of 418 villages or hamlets which are listed on an index of Palestinian cities of 1945.
And I already posted a long list of discriminatory policies in place inside Israel, right here in this thread. Maybe you should take a look at them? (Oh, sorry, I forgot; you're not interested in facts backed up by sources. You're just interested in opinions, right?).
One more thing, the show you watched on t.v: did it show you what life is like in the occupied Palestinian territories?
https://www.facebook.com/SupportNeilYoung
If it's successful we may see Pearl Jam play there after all.
Stones, lady gaga, justin timber lake, and soundgarden all could be playing in 2014.
As far as life in the "occupied territories", their own "governments" own that responsibility.
Peace can be negotiated.
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
http://www.btselem.org/publications/201306_area_c
Israel [...] violates the essential obligations of international humanitarian law, namely: to safeguard occupied territory on a temporary basis; to refrain from altering the area or exploiting its resources to benefit the occupying power; and, most importantly, to undertake to fulfill the needs of the local residents and respect their rights.
For more detail on Israels obligations as an occupying power, and of it's many violations of those same obligations, in blatant violation of international law, you can read this: http://www.eccpalestine.org/israels-obligations-as-an-occupying-power-under-international-law-its-violations-and-implications-for-eu-policy/ It already has been. Unfortunately though, the peace agreement which the whole World supports, gets vetoed by the U.S every year.
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/video-shows-unprovoked-cold-blooded-killing-palestinian-boys-israeli-forces
Let's see them come out and defend this action. I'm waiting for the "it's wrong BUT......."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/13/world/meast/israel-ehud-olmert-sentence/?hpt=hp_t1