Hear the fans - Bring Pearl Jam To Israel

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul said:

Byrnzie said:

Byrnzie said:

I support ethnic cleansing huh?I don't remember saying that.

You don't have a very good memory, do you?


Byrnzie: "You still haven't answered my question. I've asked it twice already. I'll ask it again a third time: Do you support the Israeli occupation and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?"


rr165892: "Yes Byrnzie"

You just destroyed any credibility you may have had with this bullshit post Byrnzie. Holy fuck, you should write speeches for shady politicians or something. Distorting what people say and mean seems like second nature to you.

Thanks for chiming in with an attack on my credibility. Your contribution to this debate is truly needed.

Now go ahead and explain how I distorted what he said.

Here's the post in full. Let me know how I distorted what he said:

rr165892 said:

"

"You still haven't answered my question. I've asked it twice already. I'll ask it again a third time: Do you support the Israeli occupation and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?"


Yes Byrnzie, I support Israel,and for the record Palestinians don't know "ethnic cleansing" so stop that shit.

He didn't say "No, Byrnzie, I don't support the Occupation, but I do support Israel..." He said "Yes Byrnzie..."

Maye you need to get yourself back to school and catch up on all those English classes that you must have missed. And in the meantime, I suggest you check out the meaning of the word 'distortion'.

VivaPalestina

BS44325 said:

VivaPalestina said:

BS44325 said:

Byrnzie said:

The first terror attacks inside Israel proper occurred in 1994. Before that, all the violence took place along the borders, which
the Israeli's kept expanding, and in the areas siezed by the Israeli's during and after the 1948 war.

Byrnzie....be very careful now with some of your facts. My friend's sister, a Canadian tourist visiting Israel, was killed on a Tel Aviv beach in July of 1990. An innocent 17 year old girl.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/30/world/israel-seizes-8-arabs-in-bombing-at-beach-that-killed-a-tourist.html

Be careful with the facts...meaning don't state them. Byrnzie is one of the few people who has made any sense on this thread. Your friend's sister do you really want to go there?

Yes I do want to go there. Byrnzie made a statement that was absolutely false. He claimed that the first terror attacks inside Israel occurred in 1994. I proved this was incorrect. Your suffering notwithstanding he should indeed be careful with his facts.

Well then, your suffering notwithstanding the facts would be that the first terrorist act committed inside israel would be shortly after it was created when members of an israeli terrorist group assassinated Folke Bernadotte. Be careful with the facts.

rr165892

Talk about cherry picking Byrnzie.You are twisting this shit up.Are you doing that with all the facts?

Byrnzie

rr165892 said:

Talk about cherry picking Byrnzie.You are twisting this shit up.Are you doing that with all the facts?

I haven't twisted anything. Although I realize that you need to try and cast doubt on my integrity, and credibity, because you have nothing else up your sleeve. Dragging this debate down to being all about me, and engaging in personal insults, is far easier than addressing any of the points I've made.

In the meantime, regarding PJ Souls pathetic attempt at character assassination and her questioning my credibility, how about you clear the matter up?
I asked you three times whether you support the occupation and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. It was a simple yes, or no question, and you answered 'yes'. You then proceeded to post an obvious lie by claiming that no ethnic cleansing had ever taken place. A lie which I countered by posting dozens of statements from Israeli political and military leaders, and by one of Israel's leading Zionist historians, admitting that ethnic cleansing did indeed take place.

So I'll ask you again: do you support the Israeli occupation and the ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians? Yes, or no?

Byrnzie

mattsl1983 said:

And you are saying that before Israel took Gaza and the West Bank there was peace? I ask that because you stated that terror attacks are a symptom of the occupation, impliying there were none before, and everything was peaceful before Israel aquired the land?

Arabs and Jews lived peacefully together for a thousand years until the European Zionists moved in and began terrorizing the place and making claims on the land.
And they didn't 'acquire' the land, they stole it. And all of the land stolen during and after the June 1967 war remains illegally occupied under international law.

rr165892

Supporting a Sovereign country who is a key strategic friend in a hostile area,who is also at the front line of holding back crazy fucking terrorists from running wild with wacky religious visions of world domination and terror.Yeah as a Westerner,American and common sense thinking person, for the second time Byrnzie yes I support the State of Israel.No I do not support ANY violence,death or mistreatment of any persons from any country,background and ethnicity.Yes I want PJ to play Israel.So ALL fans in the region can enjoy.I have said all along I think it could be healing.

rr165892

You say it is a yes or no answer,it's that simple.Well dude it is way,way more complex then a simple yes or no answer.I also have not made this personal at all,in fact I have express hope that you find peace with this matter,Again you twisted my words and posts.

Byrnzie

rr165892 said:

You say it is a yes or no answer,it's that simple.Well dude it is way,way more complex then a simple yes or no answer.I also have not made this personal at all,in fact I have express hope that you find peace with this matter,Again you twisted my words and posts.

I didn't twist anything. I asked you if you support the Occupation. Either you do, or you don't. So which is it?

Byrnzie

rr165892 said:

Supporting a Sovereign country who is a key strategic friend in a hostile area,who is also at the front line of holding back crazy fucking terrorists from running wild with wacky religious visions of world domination and terror.

And I suppose the extremist Israeli settlers are sane, rational people, with no designs on another nations land, right?




By the way, attacks by Israeli settlers were recently labelled acts of terrorism by the US state department: http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/diplomania/u-s-state-department-defines-settler-violence-as-terrorism-1.459087

'The U.S. State Department has cited violence by settlers against Palestinians in the West Bank under the heading "terrorist incidents" in its annual Country Report on Terrorism.

The report, released July 31, states that GOC Central Command Avi Mizrahi has referred to attacks against Palestinians and Palestinian property as terror...'




So where's your condemnation of these 'crazy fucking terrorists'?

dignin

Please Pearl Jam, do not play in Israel.



PS: So this is where all the AMT action went.

caifan82

Just wanted to post a quick "Thank You" here. Specially to Byrnzie and Drowned Out for the multiple articles, quotes and graphics that paint such a detailed picture of the the situation over there. My knowledge on this topic has always been rather shallow, but I'm learning quite a bit in this thread.
I hope the personal attacks don't get it closed, though... because it's been really interesting so far.

PJ_Soul

caifan82 said:

Just wanted to post a quick "Thank You" here. Specially to Byrnzie and Drowned Out for the multiple articles, quotes and graphics that paint such a detailed picture of the the situation over there. My knowledge on this topic has always been rather shallow, but I'm learning quite a bit in this thread.
I hope the personal attacks don't get it closed, though... because it's been really interesting so far.

Well, keep in mind that a lot of information is very biased when it comes to this issue... take it all with a grain of salt.

PJ_Soul

Byrnzie said:

PJ_Soul said:

Byrnzie said:

Byrnzie said:

I support ethnic cleansing huh?I don't remember saying that.

You don't have a very good memory, do you?


Byrnzie: "You still haven't answered my question. I've asked it twice already. I'll ask it again a third time: Do you support the Israeli occupation and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?"


rr165892: "Yes Byrnzie"

You just destroyed any credibility you may have had with this bullshit post Byrnzie. Holy fuck, you should write speeches for shady politicians or something. Distorting what people say and mean seems like second nature to you.

Thanks for chiming in with an attack on my credibility. Your contribution to this debate is truly needed.

Now go ahead and explain how I distorted what he said.

Here's the post in full. Let me know how I distorted what he said:

rr165892 said:

"

"You still haven't answered my question. I've asked it twice already. I'll ask it again a third time: Do you support the Israeli occupation and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?"


Yes Byrnzie, I support Israel,and for the record Palestinians don't know "ethnic cleansing" so stop that shit.

He didn't say "No, Byrnzie, I don't support the Occupation, but I do support Israel..." He said "Yes Byrnzie..."

Maye you need to get yourself back to school and catch up on all those English classes that you must have missed. And in the meantime, I suggest you check out the meaning of the word 'distortion'.

He did NOT mean "Yes Byrnzie, I support the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians", and you know it. It's not even possible, since his claim is that ethnic cleansing does not even exist in this conflict (and I would agree. Ethnic cleansing takes a specific motivation and intent that is lacking in this conflict, and includes the aspect of real hostilities and war acts coming from the other side, as well as a lack of the threat of ethnic blending, which also excludes the definition of ethnic cleansing). Or even if you are too blinded by your own opinion not to see that, everyone else knows it, and guess I could say that I'm now informing you that you're misunderstanding rather than purposefully distorting, except I believe you're purposefully distorting.

rr165892

Thanks PJ.

BS44325

Byrnzie said:

BS44325 said:

Byrnzie....be very careful now with some of your facts. My friend's sister, a Canadian tourist visiting Israel, was killed on a Tel Aviv beach in July of 1990. An innocent 17 year old girl.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/30/world/israel-seizes-8-arabs-in-bombing-at-beach-that-killed-a-tourist.html

I stand corrected. I did read somewhere that the first attacks inside Israel took place in 1994. I expect now that it was probably referring to suicide bombings. Thanks for setting me straight.

Edit: Yeah, It was referring to suicide attacks: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3256858.stm I'll be more careful in future.

Good on you for posting a correction.

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul said:

He did NOT mean "Yes Byrnzie, I support the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians", and you know it. It's not even possible, since his claim is that ethnic cleansing does not even exist in this conflict (and I would agree. Ethnic cleansing takes a specific motivation and intent that is lacking in this conflict, and includes the aspect of real hostilities and war acts coming from the other side, as well as a lack of the threat of ethnic blending, which also excludes the definition of ethnic cleansing).

What? Do you even know what the definition of ethnic cleansing is? Do you think you can distort the meaning of a term as it suits you? Palestinians have been driven from their homes at gun point - often in the wake of massacres of entire villages. They have had their homes bulldozed by the Israeli's - sometimes with the occupants still inside. The land stolen has then been populated by Jews, to the exclusion of any Arabs.
This constitutes ethnic cleansing, and I posted above a long list of quotes by Israeli historians, political and military leaders admitting that ethnic cleansing is exactly what is taking place.

But you pretend to know better?

And as for my distorting what rr.,., said, I distorted nothing. The question I asked him was a simple yes, or no, question: 'Do you support the occupation and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?' His answer was 'Yes Byrnzie...' And the fact that he then proceeded to claim that no ethnic cleansing has taken place is irrelevant.

It's the equivalent of someone asking 'Do you support the holocaust? And the other person answering 'Yes, but...'

Byrnzie

caifan82 said:

Just wanted to post a quick "Thank You" here. Specially to Byrnzie and Drowned Out for the multiple articles, quotes and graphics that paint such a detailed picture of the the situation over there. My knowledge on this topic has always been rather shallow, but I'm learning quite a bit in this thread.
I hope the personal attacks don't get it closed, though... because it's been really interesting so far.

Thanks mate.

eldarion75

The Israeli Prime minister and the German Prime Minister.
This happened today.

JK18472

The winner if Israel's Next Top Model is....... an Arab.
apartheid? I think not.

JohnnieBeBlue

Sorry I'm just joining this thread late, but I hate seeing misinformation being spread. Israel is far from perfect, but it's light years better than the oppressive regimes elsewhere in the middle east, including the Palestinian Authority. Ask any Arab Israeli citizen if they would rather live under the rule of the PA, and I doubt you'll get any takers. In response to the above propaganda, I offer the following: