I don't believe in any "ethnic cleansing" at all and I think,if you spent any time in Israel you would see with your own eyes that it is just not happening, no matter how many quotes you bring from people 50 years ago or even articles written today. The truth is the truth, and seeing is believing. You can read all you want and I can tell you over and over again. But nothing will change until you walk the streets, take a bus, or buy groceries there. I have done that. I know what's real. You can show many many graphs it maps with borders, and I'm sure ther are graphs and maps that will show the opposite. what about gush katif and the disengagement. Why no peace ?
Education and books you say. History is told by the victors. Is it possible first hand knowledge might be more credible than what's been written in a book. I'm sure if you read some if the "Textbooks" from 50 years ago you would be offended by what they printed but at the time that's where people became "educated" as you say. With all do respect I can't rely on someone else to tell me the facts when I know the truth because I lived the truth. Surely you trust your own intellect and first hand experience over what someone else is telling you.
This is getting a bit too intense for me, so I'll leave it at that. I wish you luck and no hard feelings. If i ever see you at a show I'll buy you a beer. Although we disagree on this, I hope there are no hard feelings. In the end this is a place for fans of an incredible band to get together. We both can agree on that so let's leave it at that.
I take it wrong? Is that because you 'don't believe there to be an illegal occupation'? International law, along with the entire international community - including the U.S - and every single Human Rights organization, has determined that the occupation is illegal. But you 'don't believe' that it is. How so? Please explain why you think that Israels seizure of the land and it's expulsion of the Palestinians (i.e, ethnic cleansing) is not illegal.
I don't believe in any "ethnic cleansing" at all and I think,if you spent any time in Israel you would see with your own eyes that it is just not happening, no matter how many quotes you bring from people 50 years ago or even articles written today. The truth is the truth, and seeing is believing. You can read all you want and I can tell you over and over again. But nothing will change until you walk the streets, take a bus, or buy groceries there. I have done that. I know what's real. You can show many many graphs it maps with borders, and I'm sure ther are graphs and maps that will show the opposite. what about gush katif and the disengagement. Why no peace ?
Ah, I get it. If I take a bus, or buy some groceries in Israel, then I'll see that all of the documentary evidence, including written and verbal testaments by Israeli leaders and historians, testifying that ethnic cleansing has occurred, and continues to this day, is just make-believe? The expulsion of between 700-800,000 Palestinians in 1948 didn't happen, right? The bulldozing of Palestinians homes, and the ongoing building of Jewish-only settlements today, isn't happening, right?
Because that's what you 'believe'.
Do you live in the Occupied Palestinian territories, or in East Jerusalem? No, of course you don't.
Education and books you say. History is told by the victors. Is it possible first hand knowledge might be more credible than what's been written in a book.
This is getting a bit too intense for me, so I'll leave it at that. I wish you luck and no hard feelings. If i ever see you at a show I'll buy you a beer. Although we disagree on this, I hope there are no hard feelings. In the end this is a place for fans of an incredible band to get together. We both can agree on that so let's leave it at that.
"MTV generation Half-wit" Classic B So now Byrnzie you are way more intellectual and elitist then us knuckle dragging Gen X ,Latch key American kids huh???.Stupid Americans.How could we possible understand the depth of your passion and knowledge.Please do tell,What is your country of origin? I really want to know now. You do know the band message board you are on is also a by product of that half wit MTV generation.Your boys in PJ came up like the rest of us did.Be thankful for it.
You know brynzie, maybe its the hippy in me but this kinda sucks. Wouldn't it just be much cooler if everyone got along. And I mean everyone everywhere globally. The golden rule treat others as you'd want to be treated. Maybe the next generation will get it right. my 11 year old nephew is right now playing fir his school basketball team in Israel against Israeli Arab school. Its not much but maybe its a start. and about that beer you got it bro!
"MTV generation Half-wit" Classic B So now Byrnzie you are way more intellectual and elitist then us knuckle dragging Gen X ,Latch key American kids huh???.Stupid Americans.How could we possible understand the depth of your passion and knowledge.Please do tell,What is your country of origin? I really want to know now. You do know the band message board you are on is also a by product of that half wit MTV generation.Your boys in PJ came up like the rest of us did.Be thankful for it.
I fail to see what this has to do with the topic at hand? Looks like you are trying to get personal.
As a population sample of pearl jams this base, this thread shows that them going to Israel would be a highly controversial and even risky move. Probably another reason it won't happen.
'Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said there is "no way" he will recognize Israel as a Jewish state and accept a Palestinian capital in just a portion of Israeli-annexed east Jerusalem...
Abbas has noted that the Palestine Liberation Organization recognized the state of Israel in 1993 and said this is sufficient.
...Netanyahu [...] said that Israel wants to keep east Jerusalem, maintain a long-term military presence in the West Bank's Jordan Valley and annex unspecified "settlement blocs."
And rightly so. Why should he accept Israel's carve up of Palestinian land into a series of South African Apartheid-style bantustans? Why should he accept something that's completely unworkable, unrealistic, and contrary to international law and the will of the whole of the international community?
It's about time that the U.S quits pretending to be an honest broker for peace and fucks off out of it. They need to let a neutral country mediate affairs, or better still, simply allow U.N 242, which the whole World supports, and which the U.S has vetoed every year for the past 20+ years, to be implemented.
I nominate Byrnzie to get Hamas, Fatah, and Israel to the table to hammer out a deal. Go for it! You can do it!
A deal's already been agreed by the whole World. The deal is U.N 242, which calls for an immediate withdrawal of Israeli's to the June 1967 border. A deal which is supported by the whole World, and which the U.S stands alone in the World in blocking every year, in order to allow Israel more time to steal more land.
What's needed is for the U.S to back out of it, and for international law to be implemented.
I nominate Byrnzie to get Hamas, Fatah, and Israel to the table to hammer out a deal. Go for it! You can do it!
A deal's already been agreed by the whole World. The deal is U.N 242, which calls for an immediate withdrawal of Israeli's to the June 1967 border. A deal which is supported by the whole World, and which the U.S stands alone in the World in blocking every year, in order to allow Israel more time to steal more land.
What's needed is for the U.S to back out of it, and for international law to be implemented.
Pretty simple really.
We know this. You already told us.
Solution is simple. We just hop in our Deloreans and go back in time.
In 2014, UN242 will not work. For all of the reasons you have stated on earlier posts and all of the reasons you refuse to acknowledge.
Neither side will agree to the resolution as written. Could it be the basis to start with but the issues have mounted since 67.
You can spout off about occupation and apartheid, whine about US involvement... This things do not get anyone closer to a resolution.
It requires diplomacy on both sides. The Palestineans refusing to recognize a Jewish states right to exist is naturally a show stopper. The words themselves fuel nothing but hate... Just rallying the troops. Hope Abbas feels better.
Solution is simple. We just hop in our Deloreans and go back in time.
In 2014, UN242 will not work. For all of the reasons you have stated on earlier posts and all of the reasons you refuse to acknowledge.
Neither side will agree to the resolution as written. Could it be the basis to start with but the issues have mounted since 67.
You can spout off about occupation and apartheid, whine about US involvement... This things do not get anyone closer to a resolution.
It requires diplomacy on both sides. The Palestineans refusing to recognize a Jewish states right to exist is naturally a show stopper. The words themselves fuel nothing but hate... Just rallying the troops. Hope Abbas feels better.
Except the Palestinians have accepted U.N 242, 'as it was written'. Why are you pretending otherwise? The Palestinian leadership accepts it, and the whole of the international community accepts it. And the U.S vetoes it every year.
And It has nothing to do with going back in time. Are you suggesting that it's impossible to evacuate the illegal settlements? Why?
As for the Palestinians refusal to recognize a Jewish State being a 'show stopper', you're simply making excuses. They formally recognized Israel's right to exist within it's legal, internationally recognized borders. That's sufficient. And they are not required to do anything else. Why isn't Israel being asked to recognize Palestine's right to exist?
Nope... Just you typical anti-US/Israel tea party.
That's clever.
Are you suggesting that supporting the ongoing land-grab and ethnic cleansing (with all of the inevitable associated violence that entails), constitutes being pro-Israel?
The Palestineans refusing to recognize a Jewish states right to exist is naturally a show stopper.
I suppose it's not really surprising that when people have no justification or excuses up their sleeve, that they'll resort to spouting any gibberish they can muster instead.
Why Does The Times Recognize Israel's 'Right to Exist'? by Saree Makdisi
'AS SOON AS certain topics are raised," George Orwell once wrote, "the concrete melts into the abstract and no one seems able to think of turns of speech that are not hackneyed: Prose consists less and less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning, and more and more of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated henhouse." Such a combination of vagueness and sheer incompetence in language, Orwell warned, leads to political conformity.
No issue better illustrates Orwell's point than coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the United States. Consider, for example, the editorial in The Times on Feb. 9 demanding that the Palestinians "recognize Israel" and its "right to exist." This is a common enough sentiment — even a cliche. Yet many observers (most recently the international lawyer John Whitbeck) have pointed out that this proposition, assiduously propagated by Israel's advocates and uncritically reiterated by American politicians and journalists, is — at best — utterly nonsensical.
First, the formal diplomatic language of "recognition" is traditionally used by one state with respect to another state. It is literally meaningless for a non-state to "recognize" a state. Moreover, in diplomacy, such recognition is supposed to be mutual. In order to earn its own recognition, Israel would have to simultaneously recognize the state of Palestine. This it steadfastly refuses to do (and for some reason, there are no high-minded newspaper editorials demanding that it do so).
Second, which Israel, precisely, are the Palestinians being asked to "recognize?" Israel has stubbornly refused to declare its own borders. So, territorially speaking, "Israel" is an open-ended concept. Are the Palestinians to recognize the Israel that ends at the lines proposed by the 1947 U.N. Partition Plan? Or the one that extends to the 1949 Armistice Line (the de facto border that resulted from the 1948 war)? Or does Israel include the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which it has occupied in violation of international law for 40 years — and which maps in its school textbooks show as part of "Israel"?
For that matter, why should the Palestinians recognize an Israel that refuses to accept international law, submit to U.N. resolutions or readmit the Palestinians wrongfully expelled from their homes in 1948 and barred from returning ever since?
If none of these questions are easy to answer, why are such demands being made of the Palestinians? And why is nothing demanded of Israel in turn?
Orwell was right. It is much easier to recycle meaningless phrases than to ask — let alone to answer — difficult questions. But recycling these empty phrases serves a purpose. Endlessly repeating the mantra that the Palestinians don't recognize Israel helps paint Israel as an innocent victim, politely asking to be recognized but being rebuffed by its cruel enemies.
Actually, it asks even more. Israel wants the Palestinians, half of whom were driven from their homeland so that a Jewish state could be created in 1948, to recognize not merely that it exists (which is undeniable) but that it is "right" that it exists — that it was right for them to have been dispossessed of their homes, their property and their livelihoods so that a Jewish state could be created on their land. The Palestinians are not the world's first dispossessed people, but they are the first to be asked to legitimize what happened to them.
A just peace will require Israelis and Palestinians to reconcile and recognize each other's rights. It will not require that Palestinians give their moral seal of approval to the catastrophe that befell them. Meaningless at best, cynical and manipulative at worst, such a demand may suit Israel's purposes...
I bet in all 8 hrs they went in a circle just like we do on this thread.
CNET had a 1 hour edited version. But it is only shown at 3 or 6 am.
There were a few thought provoking points like why in the hell are we cutting the pension's of OUR former wounded soldiers who served and drastically and dangerously cutting OUR defense budget, while at the same time increasing foreign aid to Israel from 3 BILLION A YEAR to 4 BILLION A YEAR. Yes a country with a higher standard of living than European counterparts is getting 4 BILLION IN AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS. AIPAC is doing a wonderful job, for ISRAEL. Did your congressman sign "THE PLEDGE"?
It remind me of that Simpson episode when they land at tel aviv airport and the huge sign says " WELCOME TO ISRAEL, YOUR AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS HARD AT WORK."
Check this out. Thank G-d and thank the IDF this mission was successful. These weapons could have caused catastrophic damage to people all over Israel, Christians, Arabs, and Jews. I know a little while ago there was a lot of press when Israel intercepted another boat trying to break the blockade, just to prove a point. Unfortunately there were casualties. I don't want to bring that issue up again because I know people have strong opinions on it. But it surprises me that this makes no news. And no one seems to care. But this proves the idea that all vessels must be checked because weapons are being smuggled in.
I know Israel is the worst country in the world and they are guilty of the most heinous crimes against humanity but ...... maybe we should focus on a country like this. http://fxn.ws/1ispuSz
Check this out. Thank G-d and thank the IDF this mission was successful. These weapons could have caused catastrophic damage to people all over Israel, Christians, Arabs, and Jews. I know a little while ago there was a lot of press when Israel intercepted another boat trying to break the blockade, just to prove a point. Unfortunately there were casualties. I don't want to bring that issue up again because I know people have strong opinions on it. But it surprises me that this makes no news. And no one seems to care. But this proves the idea that all vessels must be checked because weapons are being smuggled in.
I know Israel is the worst country in the world and they are guilty of the most heinous crimes against humanity but ...... maybe we should focus on a country like this. http://fxn.ws/1ispuSz
So which is it? In your first post you say this story is getting no press, in your second, you post a link to Faux News? Of course you don't want to bring up the Gaza Freedom Flotilla....the strong opinions are because it was a massacre perpetrated by the IDF against peace activists. The Mavi Mamara was one of six ships of activists bringing humanitarian and construction supplies to Gaza in defiance of Israel's illegal naval blockade. It carried only people, no supplies. If 'checking vessels' was the intent, why raid them in the middle of the night with such violent force? I always thought the midnight raids were reserved for Palestinians in OPT - why use such force against international activist civilians? My bet would be to send a message. Nine people died, and the UNHRC ruled that SIX WERE SUMMARY EXECUTIONS - bullets to the head, point blank. So who are the terrorists?
Since you're talking about the mainstream media narrative, and poor Israel's persecution in the press ( :-& ).....how much much press has this story received?
Iranian gunrunning busts compete for int’l attention. Guess which narrative wins? Annie Robbins on March 10, 2014
News of Israel’s claim to have intercepted an Iranian arms shipment near Sudan allegedly headed to Gaza last Wednesday has been all over the media: mainstream media coverage in the US included the Washington Post, NYT, NPR, CNN, Fox. You name it, they reported it.
Iran flatly denied the charge. Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif immediately countered that Israel was lying.
Javad Zarif ✔ @JZarif Follow An Iranian ship carrying arms for Gaza. Captured just in time for annual AIPAC anti Iran campaign. Amazing Coincidence! Or same failed lies. 12:08 AM - 6 Mar 2014
Well…. coincidentally, there was another big arms interception story that broke two weeks before that the U.S. media somehow managed to miss. It involved Israeli arms shipments headed to Iran seized by authorities in Greece and violating the arms embargo and sanctions on Iran. US Homeland Security is reportedly investigating.
Kind of a startling coincidence, don’t you think? On February 19, the UK’s Telegraph reported it: US investigates illegal military equipment shipments from Israel to Iran:
Israeli arms dealers twice tried to send spare parts for fighter planes to Iran, The Telegraph has established, flouting an international arms embargo and openly contradicting the bitter enmity between the Jewish state and the Islamic regime.
The illegal shipments are now being investigated by the US Homeland Security Department after they were intercepted by authorities in Greece.
The potentially explosive revelation came as six world powers resumed negotiations with Iran in Vienna aimed at reaching a long-term agreement over Tehran’s nuclear programme.
Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, marked the event with a renewed call for increased pressure on Iran to force it to abandon a programme that Israel regards as a front for building an atomic bomb and a threat to its existence.
Visiting the Golan Heights on Tuesday, he accused Iran of “arming those who are carrying out the slaughter……I would like to tell the world, today, as the talks between the major powers and Iran are being resumed, that Iran has changed neither its aggressive policy nor its brutal character…..” Mr Netanyahu said.
A blogger, Richard Silverstein pointed the finger at two possible culprits who he said were well-known arms dealers living in Binyamina-Givat Ada. The pair had come to the attention of Israeli and US authorities on suspicion of violating the arms embargo on Iran in the past, Silverstein wrote, but had never been charged or prosecuted. “There can be no doubt that they are colluding with Israeli intelligence,” he added.
Initially, the Times of Israel reported Israeli government officials were “silent” and speculated a military censorship may have been imposed and, if true, this represented “the shocking effort by Israelis to supply arms to the country’s most bitter enemy.” The Times also reported that Israel’s television news broadcasts featured the story prominently.
But Richard Silverstein had already picked up the story, when the arms seizures were first revealed by Kathimerini, a Greek newspaper. Recognizing the location as being the home of “Serial Israeli Sanctions-Buster[s],” Silverstein’s report essentially ended the silence from the Israel’s officials.
Silverstein:
The U.S. screams bloody murder when it catches a foreign company violating the sanctions regime. U.S. media made sure to note that Pres. Obama lectured Francois Hollande when he was here about a French trade delegation that recently visited Iran.
How curious then, that Israel itself would be found to be in violation of U.S. sanctions law. Not once, not twice, but tens of times over the years. But did we hear about this latest incident from the NY Times or Washington Post?
The US media silence is curious indeed. Especially in light of the fact, that according Kathimerini, the illegal Israeli arms seizures were allegedly the result of an ongoing investigation between US Homeland Security and weapons unit of Greece’s Financial Crimes Squad (SDOE).
US Homeland Security will neither ”confirm or deny the existence of an investigation.”
And Netanyahu’s reaction is to saber rattle against Iran?
As FM Zarif surmised, the timing did make for some awesome sound bites at AIPAC. Not not only that, it made it challenging to research this story. Every time I placed Israel, Iran and arms interception in the search engine I got flooded with an opposing narrative. Hmm.
And no, we can’t sort out all the facts from internet searches. But shouldn’t the western press be paying attention to both stories, and the timing thereof?
Israel would never play both sides of the same coin....would they? What a joke.
This happened a bit ago. I'm glad its now making news. Maybe Iran is a country that should be considered when we rank the worst countries in the world. Maybe Israel has some competition. Their hold on that title might be at stake. Naaaaa come on no one is worse than Israel. But the facts don't matter somehow this makes Israel evil again. its just a furry thing
You have nothing to say about all the rockets going to gazza? That's not the point right. There are other issues to focus on. Its really amazing This thread is not for me . I wish you all luck. No hard feelings. Lets all enjoy the music at least we can all agree on that. Sorry if I offended anyone.
This happened a bit ago. I'm glad its now making news. Maybe Iran is a country that should be considered when we rank the worst countries in the world. Maybe Israel has some competition. Their hold on that title might be at stake. Naaaaa come on no one is worse than Israel. But the facts don't matter somehow this makes Israel evil again. its just a furry thing
We've been through this too...no one is saying israel is the worst country in the world. At least not in this thread (tho they are considered the biggest threat to peace in the Middle East, by public opinion poll). When a campaign for PJ to play Iran or Saudi Arabia starts, I will urge them not to play there either, ok? Israel and her allies all claim that the state holds western values (as if western 'values' influence policy in any way in the west), is democratic, yada yada....we are only providing balance to those statements...same as I did with your article about arms to Gaza, and your kinda sorta obscene allusion to anti-Israel bias in the media.
Comments
what about gush katif and the disengagement. Why no peace ?
I'm sure if you read some if the "Textbooks" from 50 years ago you would be offended by what they printed but at the time that's where people became "educated" as you say. With all do respect I can't rely on someone else to tell me the facts when I know the truth because I lived the truth. Surely you trust your own intellect and first hand experience over what someone else is telling you.
Because that's what you 'believe'.
Do you live in the Occupied Palestinian territories, or in East Jerusalem? No, of course you don't.
So now Byrnzie you are way more intellectual and elitist then us knuckle dragging Gen X ,Latch key American kids huh???.Stupid Americans.How could we possible understand the depth of your passion and knowledge.Please do tell,What is your country of origin? I really want to know now.
You do know the band message board you are on is also a by product of that half wit MTV generation.Your boys in PJ came up like the rest of us did.Be thankful for it.
my 11 year old nephew is right now playing fir his school basketball team in Israel against Israeli Arab school. Its not much but maybe its a start.
and about that beer you got it bro!
I fail to see what this has to do with the topic at hand? Looks like you are trying to get personal.
Good debate by the way.
And so it goes...
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
Abbas has noted that the Palestine Liberation Organization recognized the state of Israel in 1993 and said this is sufficient.
...Netanyahu [...] said that Israel wants to keep east Jerusalem, maintain a long-term military presence in the West Bank's Jordan Valley and annex unspecified "settlement blocs."
And rightly so. Why should he accept Israel's carve up of Palestinian land into a series of South African Apartheid-style bantustans? Why should he accept something that's completely unworkable, unrealistic, and contrary to international law and the will of the whole of the international community?
It's about time that the U.S quits pretending to be an honest broker for peace and fucks off out of it. They need to let a neutral country mediate affairs, or better still, simply allow U.N 242, which the whole World supports, and which the U.S has vetoed every year for the past 20+ years, to be implemented.
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
What's needed is for the U.S to back out of it, and for international law to be implemented.
Pretty simple really.
Solution is simple. We just hop in our Deloreans and go back in time.
In 2014, UN242 will not work. For all of the reasons you have stated on earlier posts and all of the reasons you refuse to acknowledge.
Neither side will agree to the resolution as written. Could it be the basis to start with but the issues have mounted since 67.
You can spout off about occupation and apartheid, whine about US involvement... This things do not get anyone closer to a resolution.
It requires diplomacy on both sides. The Palestineans refusing to recognize a Jewish states right to exist is naturally a show stopper. The words themselves fuel nothing but hate... Just rallying the troops. Hope Abbas feels better.
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
shocking.
It only airs at 6:00 am EST LMAO. I wonder who does the scheduling.
Btw, the video is 8 hours long... I think someone will get the gist of the discussion. I made it thru 10min!
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
2013- Brooklyn2, Philly1, Philly2, NOLA
And It has nothing to do with going back in time. Are you suggesting that it's impossible to evacuate the illegal settlements? Why?
As for the Palestinians refusal to recognize a Jewish State being a 'show stopper', you're simply making excuses. They formally recognized Israel's right to exist within it's legal, internationally recognized borders. That's sufficient. And they are not required to do anything else. Why isn't Israel being asked to recognize Palestine's right to exist?
Are you suggesting that supporting the ongoing land-grab and ethnic cleansing (with all of the inevitable associated violence that entails), constitutes being pro-Israel?
Read on...
http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0311-26.htm
Why Does The Times Recognize Israel's 'Right to Exist'?
by Saree Makdisi
'AS SOON AS certain topics are raised," George Orwell once wrote, "the concrete melts into the abstract and no one seems able to think of turns of speech that are not hackneyed: Prose consists less and less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning, and more and more of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated henhouse." Such a combination of vagueness and sheer incompetence in language, Orwell warned, leads to political conformity.
No issue better illustrates Orwell's point than coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the United States. Consider, for example, the editorial in The Times on Feb. 9 demanding that the Palestinians "recognize Israel" and its "right to exist." This is a common enough sentiment — even a cliche. Yet many observers (most recently the international lawyer John Whitbeck) have pointed out that this proposition, assiduously propagated by Israel's advocates and uncritically reiterated by American politicians and journalists, is — at best — utterly nonsensical.
First, the formal diplomatic language of "recognition" is traditionally used by one state with respect to another state. It is literally meaningless for a non-state to "recognize" a state. Moreover, in diplomacy, such recognition is supposed to be mutual. In order to earn its own recognition, Israel would have to simultaneously recognize the state of Palestine. This it steadfastly refuses to do (and for some reason, there are no high-minded newspaper editorials demanding that it do so).
Second, which Israel, precisely, are the Palestinians being asked to "recognize?" Israel has stubbornly refused to declare its own borders. So, territorially speaking, "Israel" is an open-ended concept. Are the Palestinians to recognize the Israel that ends at the lines proposed by the 1947 U.N. Partition Plan? Or the one that extends to the 1949 Armistice Line (the de facto border that resulted from the 1948 war)? Or does Israel include the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which it has occupied in violation of international law for 40 years — and which maps in its school textbooks show as part of "Israel"?
For that matter, why should the Palestinians recognize an Israel that refuses to accept international law, submit to U.N. resolutions or readmit the Palestinians wrongfully expelled from their homes in 1948 and barred from returning ever since?
If none of these questions are easy to answer, why are such demands being made of the Palestinians? And why is nothing demanded of Israel in turn?
Orwell was right. It is much easier to recycle meaningless phrases than to ask — let alone to answer — difficult questions. But recycling these empty phrases serves a purpose. Endlessly repeating the mantra that the Palestinians don't recognize Israel helps paint Israel as an innocent victim, politely asking to be recognized but being rebuffed by its cruel enemies.
Actually, it asks even more. Israel wants the Palestinians, half of whom were driven from their homeland so that a Jewish state could be created in 1948, to recognize not merely that it exists (which is undeniable) but that it is "right" that it exists — that it was right for them to have been dispossessed of their homes, their property and their livelihoods so that a Jewish state could be created on their land. The Palestinians are not the world's first dispossessed people, but they are the first to be asked to legitimize what happened to them.
A just peace will require Israelis and Palestinians to reconcile and recognize each other's rights. It will not require that Palestinians give their moral seal of approval to the catastrophe that befell them. Meaningless at best, cynical and manipulative at worst, such a demand may suit Israel's purposes...
There were a few thought provoking points like why in the hell are we cutting the pension's of OUR former wounded soldiers who served and drastically and dangerously cutting OUR defense budget, while at the same time increasing foreign aid to Israel from 3 BILLION A YEAR to 4 BILLION A YEAR. Yes a country with a higher standard of living than European counterparts is getting 4 BILLION IN AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS.
AIPAC is doing a wonderful job, for ISRAEL. Did your congressman sign "THE PLEDGE"?
http://news.yahoo.com/u-lawmakers-skeptical-pentagons-2015-budget-plan-priorities-001120500--business.html;_ylt=A0LEVyox1R1TsmAAfgdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0dWZydG05BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDM3OF8x
It remind me of that Simpson episode when they land at tel aviv airport and the huge sign says " WELCOME TO ISRAEL, YOUR AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS HARD AT WORK."
http://thesebastards.blogspot.com/2010/03/simpsons-did-something-funny.html
If being pro-america is wrong, I dont wanna be right. lol
I know a little while ago there was a lot of press when Israel intercepted another boat trying to break the blockade, just to prove a point. Unfortunately there were casualties. I don't want to bring that issue up again because I know people have strong opinions on it. But it surprises me that this makes no news. And no one seems to care. But this proves the idea that all vessels must be checked because weapons are being smuggled in.
http://www.idfblog.com/2014/03/10/weapons-seizure-exposes-irans-true-terror-intentions/
http://www.idfblog.com/2014/03/10/weapons-seizure-exposes-irans-true-terror-intentions/
maybe we should focus on a country like this.
http://fxn.ws/1ispuSz
Of course you don't want to bring up the Gaza Freedom Flotilla....the strong opinions are because it was a massacre perpetrated by the IDF against peace activists.
The Mavi Mamara was one of six ships of activists bringing humanitarian and construction supplies to Gaza in defiance of Israel's illegal naval blockade. It carried only people, no supplies. If 'checking vessels' was the intent, why raid them in the middle of the night with such violent force? I always thought the midnight raids were reserved for Palestinians in OPT - why use such force against international activist civilians? My bet would be to send a message. Nine people died, and the UNHRC ruled that SIX WERE SUMMARY EXECUTIONS - bullets to the head, point blank. So who are the terrorists?
Since you're talking about the mainstream media narrative, and poor Israel's persecution in the press ( :-& ).....how much much press has this story received?
Iranian gunrunning busts compete for int’l attention. Guess which narrative wins?
Annie Robbins on March 10, 2014
News of Israel’s claim to have intercepted an Iranian arms shipment near Sudan allegedly headed to Gaza last Wednesday has been all over the media: mainstream media coverage in the US included the Washington Post, NYT, NPR, CNN, Fox. You name it, they reported it.
Iran flatly denied the charge. Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif immediately countered that Israel was lying.
Javad Zarif ✔ @JZarif
Follow
An Iranian ship carrying arms for Gaza. Captured just in time for annual AIPAC anti Iran campaign. Amazing Coincidence! Or same failed lies.
12:08 AM - 6 Mar 2014
Well…. coincidentally, there was another big arms interception story that broke two weeks before that the U.S. media somehow managed to miss. It involved Israeli arms shipments headed to Iran seized by authorities in Greece and violating the arms embargo and sanctions on Iran. US Homeland Security is reportedly investigating.
Kind of a startling coincidence, don’t you think? On February 19, the UK’s Telegraph reported it: US investigates illegal military equipment shipments from Israel to Iran:
Israeli arms dealers twice tried to send spare parts for fighter planes to Iran, The Telegraph has established, flouting an international arms embargo and openly contradicting the bitter enmity between the Jewish state and the Islamic regime.
The illegal shipments are now being investigated by the US Homeland Security Department after they were intercepted by authorities in Greece.
The potentially explosive revelation came as six world powers resumed negotiations with Iran in Vienna aimed at reaching a long-term agreement over Tehran’s nuclear programme.
Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, marked the event with a renewed call for increased pressure on Iran to force it to abandon a programme that Israel regards as a front for building an atomic bomb and a threat to its existence.
Visiting the Golan Heights on Tuesday, he accused Iran of “arming those who are carrying out the slaughter……I would like to tell the world, today, as the talks between the major powers and Iran are being resumed, that Iran has changed neither its aggressive policy nor its brutal character…..” Mr Netanyahu said.
A blogger, Richard Silverstein pointed the finger at two possible culprits who he said were well-known arms dealers living in Binyamina-Givat Ada. The pair had come to the attention of Israeli and US authorities on suspicion of violating the arms embargo on Iran in the past, Silverstein wrote, but had never been charged or prosecuted. “There can be no doubt that they are colluding with Israeli intelligence,” he added.
Initially, the Times of Israel reported Israeli government officials were “silent” and speculated a military censorship may have been imposed and, if true, this represented “the shocking effort by Israelis to supply arms to the country’s most bitter enemy.” The Times also reported that Israel’s television news broadcasts featured the story prominently.
But Richard Silverstein had already picked up the story, when the arms seizures were first revealed by Kathimerini, a Greek newspaper. Recognizing the location as being the home of “Serial Israeli Sanctions-Buster[s],” Silverstein’s report essentially ended the silence from the Israel’s officials.
Silverstein:
The U.S. screams bloody murder when it catches a foreign company violating the sanctions regime. U.S. media made sure to note that Pres. Obama lectured Francois Hollande when he was here about a French trade delegation that recently visited Iran.
How curious then, that Israel itself would be found to be in violation of U.S. sanctions law. Not once, not twice, but tens of times over the years. But did we hear about this latest incident from the NY Times or Washington Post?
The US media silence is curious indeed. Especially in light of the fact, that according Kathimerini, the illegal Israeli arms seizures were allegedly the result of an ongoing investigation between US Homeland Security and weapons unit of Greece’s Financial Crimes Squad (SDOE).
US Homeland Security will neither ”confirm or deny the existence of an investigation.”
And Netanyahu’s reaction is to saber rattle against Iran?
As FM Zarif surmised, the timing did make for some awesome sound bites at AIPAC. Not not only that, it made it challenging to research this story. Every time I placed Israel, Iran and arms interception in the search engine I got flooded with an opposing narrative. Hmm.
And no, we can’t sort out all the facts from internet searches. But shouldn’t the western press be paying attention to both stories, and the timing thereof?
Israel would never play both sides of the same coin....would they? What a joke.
Maybe Iran is a country that should be considered when we rank the worst countries in the world. Maybe Israel has some competition. Their hold on that title might be at stake. Naaaaa come on no one is worse than Israel.
But the facts don't matter somehow this makes Israel evil again.
its just a furry thing
Its really amazing
This thread is not for me . I wish you all luck. No hard feelings. Lets all enjoy the music at least we can all agree on that. Sorry if I offended anyone.