Hear the fans - Bring Pearl Jam To Israel

rollandf

Sure, so it does not make it a terror attack ?

unforgiven

Mate he did say the 1st terror attack in Israel occurred in 1994, Israel didn't exist in 1929. He has you on a technicality.

mattsl1983

So, Byrnzie, I again ask you do you really think there will be peace if Israel pulls away? I'm looking for your answer, not a post or you quoting others. Your answer, your words. Can you do that, or is it going to consist of you posting links and quoting others? I'm asking for you to answer in your own words.

mattsl1983

So also, do you despise Jeff, Stone, Mike, and Neil? Cause they have played in this country that you desperately want everyone to know that is true evil. I mean you must fully truly stand by your convictions and denounce and hate anyone that must play there. But I guess you dont. Please, by all means stand by your convictions and boycott most of the band who's forum you are on!. Do it, seriously, you feel so strong about it now. Let's not forget the past. Stand by it.

Byrnzie

rollandf said:

Sure, so it does not make it a terror attack ?

I said the first terrorist attack inside the borders of Israel.

mattsl1983 said:

So, Byrnzie, I again ask you do you really think there will be peace if Israel pulls away? I'm looking for your answer, not a post or you quoting others. Your answer, your words. Can you do that, or is it going to consist of you posting links and quoting others? I'm asking for you to answer in your own words.

That's clever. I think I've backed up my comments with links and/or quotes maybe twice in this thread. Though I can see why that would be a problem for you, as I know you'd prefer to just engage in opinions and insults instead. There are others reading this thread, and I'll post links and quotes for their benefit whenever I feel it's necessary to do so, and I couldn't give a fuck whether you like it or not.

As to your question, If you'd been paying atention to this thread, then you'd have noticed that I already answered it above. I said that the Israeli's could pull back to their internationally recognized, and legal, borders, and then fortify those borders. And if it then took a generation or two of having to post U.N troops along that border to ward off any extremists from either side, then so be it. The fact that the Palestinian leadership has already declared it's acceptance of U.N 242 and an Israeli retreat to the 1967 borders suggests they'd be satisfied with that, though I'm not sure what the extremist settlers on the other side would feel about it.

I.e,...


'[Moshe] Dayan [former Israeli military leader and politician] himself stated that "from the point of view of the security of the State, the establishment of the settlements has no great importance." Other officials shared his assessment:

"We have to use the pretext of security needs and the authority of the military governor as there is no way of driving out the Arabs from their land as long as they refuse to go and accept our compensation..."

In 1969 moreover, Dayan had emphasized that the settlements were eternal: "the settlements established in the territories are there forever, and the future frontiers will include these settlements as part of Israel." In private, he had already in 1967 made it quite clear how the Palestinians were not, in fact, to have a secure and tolerable existence: "there is no solution," he said, "and you shall continue to live like dogs, and whoever prefers shall leave..."

...The settler movement's messianic notions of racial destiny have been amply documented. Yehoshafat Harkabi, a former Major General and intelligence chief in the Israeli Defense Forces, describes how they interpret the "halakha - the body of religious laws designed to encode a unique and binding lifestyle." Harkabi, like others, considers Rabbi Zvi Yehudah Kook to be the mentor of the Gush Emunim settler movement and cites him as saying at a public meeting that:

"I tell you explicitly that the Torah forbids us to surrender even one inch of our liberated land. There are no conquests here and we are not occupying foreign lands; we are returning to our home, to the inheritance of our ancestors. There is no Arab land here, only the inheritance of our God - and the more the world gets used to this thought the better it will be for them and for all of us..."

Byrnzie

mattsl1983 said:

So also, do you despise Jeff, Stone, Mike, and Neil? Cause they have played in this country that you desperately want everyone to know that is true evil. I mean you must fully truly stand by your convictions and denounce and hate anyone that must play there. But I guess you dont. Please, by all means stand by your convictions and boycott most of the band who's forum you are on!. Do it, seriously, you feel so strong about it now. Let's not forget the past. Stand by it.

Nah, I just put it down to them having not known any better.

The World has wised-up a lot with regards to this issue over the past 10-20 years. People can now see through the Israeli's bullshit, and are privy to the facts instead. I have the utmost respect for all the members of this band.

Carry on.

rr165892

First terror attack in 1994-SMFH
Lets see,Instead of attacking at home your peacefull warriors traveled a lil.You know hijacking planes,Slaughtering Olympic athletes,Attempting to assignate leaders of other countries and basically working on unrest and civil discord where ever they could to whoever would listen.PLO,Hammas,Hezbollah,PRC,AAMB and others are just civil orginazations right? stirring up a little peaceful jihad amongst friends.

Byrnzie

rr165892 said:

First terror attack in 1994-SMFH
Lets see,Instead of attacking at home your peacefull warriors traveled a lil.You know hijacking planes,Slaughtering Olympic athletes,Attempting to assignate leaders of other countries and basically working on unrest and civil discord where ever they could to whoever would listen.PLO,Hammas,Hezbollah,PRC,AAMB and others are just civil orginazations right? stirring up a little peaceful jihad amongst friends.

Do you really want to start comparing atrocities by both sides? Really? Are you sure you wanna go down that road?




Here's some more info for you to digest: During 'Operation Cast Lead' between December 2008 and January 2009, over 1000 Palestinian civilians were killed - including over 400 children - and 250 police officers, compared with 3 Israeli civilians killed. Later investigations determined that the Israeli's had deliberately targeted civilians, including the bombing of schools, police barracks, hospitals, and U.N safe-houses. How's that for terrorism?


I could play this game all day.

Byrnzie

rr165892 said:

First terror attack in 1994-SMFH
Lets see,Instead of attacking at home your peacefull warriors traveled a lil.You know hijacking planes,Slaughtering Olympic athletes,Attempting to assignate leaders of other countries and basically working on unrest and civil discord where ever they could to whoever would listen.PLO,Hammas,Hezbollah,PRC,AAMB and others are just civil orginazations right? stirring up a little peaceful jihad amongst friends.

Anyway, you've already admitted that you support Israel's ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, so you're hardly in a position to try taking any moral high-ground here.

rr165892

Byrnzie said:

rr165892 said:

First terror attack in 1994-SMFH
Lets see,Instead of attacking at home your peacefull warriors traveled a lil.You know hijacking planes,Slaughtering Olympic athletes,Attempting to assignate leaders of other countries and basically working on unrest and civil discord where ever they could to whoever would listen.PLO,Hammas,Hezbollah,PRC,AAMB and others are just civil orginazations right? stirring up a little peaceful jihad amongst friends.

Anyway, you've already admitted that you support Israel's ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, so you're hardly in a position to try taking any moral high-ground here.

Dude,you are classic.You can spin anything to fit your terrorist supporting agenda.You also have a knack for twisting words around.I support ethnic cleansing huh?I don't remember saying that.I was promoting peace thru shared music.

If the Israelis wanted to turn gaza into prime beach front condos and luxury vacation villas and" cleanse" the area of Palestinians ,I'm sure it woulda been done by now.They have the might thats for sure.So who is the Palestinian leader that is shouting from the rooftops for peace anyway.Who is this future Nobel prize winning great man that is championing the peaceful solution to your issue.Who??????Who is willing to stand up to the violent factions within the Palestinian "freedom" movement and denounce the hate and violence and call for a sane and just meeting of the sides to end the centuries of crap?

PJ_Soul

*you're

X_X

shortstack

if pj played israel, i would quit pj

BS44325

rollandf said:

One of the Israeli band part of the effort is Orphaned-Land.

independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/meet-the-israeli-and-palestinian-heavy-metal-bands-headbanging-for-middle-east-peace-9119705.html

youtube.com/watch?v=xEJ8zjTEsHk

Beautiful article. If it were my guess Pearl Jam would have a huge amount of sympathy for those bands.

rr165892

Happy now PJ

BS44325

Byrnzie said:

The first terror attacks inside Israel proper occurred in 1994. Before that, all the violence took place along the borders, which the Israeli's kept expanding, and in the areas siezed by the Israeli's during and after the 1948 war.

Byrnzie....be very careful now with some of your facts. My friend's sister, a Canadian tourist visiting Israel, was killed on a Tel Aviv beach in July of 1990. An innocent 17 year old girl.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/30/world/israel-seizes-8-arabs-in-bombing-at-beach-that-killed-a-tourist.html

VivaPalestina

BS44325 said:

Byrnzie said:

The first terror attacks inside Israel proper occurred in 1994. Before that, all the violence took place along the borders, which
the Israeli's kept expanding, and in the areas siezed by the Israeli's during and after the 1948 war.

Byrnzie....be very careful now with some of your facts. My friend's sister, a Canadian tourist visiting Israel, was killed on a Tel Aviv beach in July of 1990. An innocent 17 year old girl.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/30/world/israel-seizes-8-arabs-in-bombing-at-beach-that-killed-a-tourist.html

Be careful with the facts...meaning don't state them. Byrnzie is one of the few people who has made any sense on this thread. Your friend's sister do you really want to go there? A young boy from my family's village, not in 1990, but in 2012 was hit by the more supposedly "humane" rubber bullet and is now paralyzed, he is 18...which ironically brings to mind neil youngs lyrics "the kinder, gentler machine gun hand...one more kid who will never get to school, never get fall in love, never get to be cool" I think you just inspired a letter written to ny, but that is for another time. Every single person in my family's village, has either had been directly effected by the occupation, had someone killed, imprisoned, injured, their house raided, land taken, etc, or knows someone who has. This is the reality of life under occupation. I am sorry about what happened to your friend's sister. But those who have suffered and been killed since the state of israel was created on the land of Palestine are no less innocent, and have not received any apologies. So, don't tell people to be "careful" with facts, for a lot of us they are a reality, I thank Byrnzie and everyone else on this thread who wanted to share or shed a little light, tell our side of the story for once. As Eddie Vedder once sang, "Silence is defeat."

BS44325

VivaPalestina said:

BS44325 said:

Byrnzie said:

The first terror attacks inside Israel proper occurred in 1994. Before that, all the violence took place along the borders, which
the Israeli's kept expanding, and in the areas siezed by the Israeli's during and after the 1948 war.

Byrnzie....be very careful now with some of your facts. My friend's sister, a Canadian tourist visiting Israel, was killed on a Tel Aviv beach in July of 1990. An innocent 17 year old girl.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/30/world/israel-seizes-8-arabs-in-bombing-at-beach-that-killed-a-tourist.html

Be careful with the facts...meaning don't state them. Byrnzie is one of the few people who has made any sense on this thread. Your friend's sister do you really want to go there?

Yes I do want to go there. Byrnzie made a statement that was absolutely false. He claimed that the first terror attacks inside Israel occurred in 1994. I proved this was incorrect. Your suffering notwithstanding he should indeed be careful with his facts.

Byrnzie

BS44325 said:

Byrnzie....be very careful now with some of your facts. My friend's sister, a Canadian tourist visiting Israel, was killed on a Tel Aviv beach in July of 1990. An innocent 17 year old girl.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/30/world/israel-seizes-8-arabs-in-bombing-at-beach-that-killed-a-tourist.html

I stand corrected. I did read somewhere that the first attacks inside Israel took place in 1994. I expect now that it was probably referring to suicide bombings. Thanks for setting me straight.

Edit: Yeah, It was referring to suicide attacks: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3256858.stm I'll be more careful in future.

Byrnzie

Byrnzie said:

I support ethnic cleansing huh?I don't remember saying that.

You don't have a very good memory, do you?


Byrnzie: "You still haven't answered my question. I've asked it twice already. I'll ask it again a third time: Do you support the Israeli occupation and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?"


rr165892: "Yes Byrnzie"

PJ_Soul

Byrnzie said:

Byrnzie said:

I support ethnic cleansing huh?I don't remember saying that.

You don't have a very good memory, do you?


Byrnzie: "You still haven't answered my question. I've asked it twice already. I'll ask it again a third time: Do you support the Israeli occupation and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?"


rr165892: "Yes Byrnzie"

You just destroyed any credibility you may have had with this bullshit post Byrnzie. Holy fuck, you should write speeches for shady politicians or something. Distorting what people say and mean seems like second nature to you.