WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
That's right! Good on the Israeli courts! You have demonstrated that Israel is in fact a democracy and a nation of laws. All the more reason for Pearl Jam to play there!
That's right! Good on the Israeli courts! You have demonstrated that Israel is in fact a democracy and a nation of laws. All the more reason for Pearl Jam to play there!
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Typical.Not a word from the Pro Palestinian/Hammas lovers on this board about the 3 kidnap,beaten,tortured and murdered Israeli kids (1 American)2 weeks ago that Hammas applauded.But this gets posted.SMH. Although I do not support the action against this young man.or violence against any innocent. I would ask what were the kids doing?Playing ball,hanging with friends,etc?No I believe they were protesting in some fashion.I would like to hear both sides of this.
the propaganda from all sides is the disgusting here..there are no Angels in this.. and music is different..is to connect people and not create enemies..and this band knows this better than anyone...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Actually, the latest developments in the region make it even more clear how biased corporate media and western leaders are, and how far Israel's government will go to win favour. The IDF kills two Palestinians during nakba day protests, ON TAPE, and nary a word from international leaders. Three Israeli settlers are kidnapped and killed, and western leaders condemn Hamas without a shred of evidence. Meanwhile, the Israeli government, knowing full well that the three settlers were already dead, use the manhunt and body search to detain without charge hundreds of Palestinians, to murder several people, to impose curfews in the biggest army mobilization in years, to terrorize Palestinians all over the West Bank, and to begin aerial bombardment of gaza once again. They may be prepping for further military action against gaza. Then, acting on calls for vengeance by a chief rabbi, and incitement from bibi himself, another Palestinian is kidnapped, tortured, and burned alive by suspected Israeli settlers. A price tag killing. Again, where is the outrage from western leaders? As max blumenthal pointed out the other day, all we hear is how this is a 'cycle of violence', as if there are two equally at fault, equally strong sides locked in a power struggle. As if one side is not oppressor and the other the oppressed. As if there is no illegal occupation.
Typical.Not a word from the Pro Palestinian/Hammas lovers on this board about the 3 kidnap,beaten,tortured and murdered Israeli kids (1 American)2 weeks ago that Hammas applauded.But this gets posted.SMH. Although I do not support the action against this young man.or violence against any innocent. I would ask what were the kids doing?Playing ball,hanging with friends,etc?No I believe they were protesting in some fashion.I would like to hear both sides of this.
I have no idea what these murdered kids were doing and don't care. They were murdered by rotten human beings who care more about their own anger than they do human life. Bad shit coming from BOTH sides. Pearl Jam should avoid the entire region as long as the Israelis AND the Palestinians keep pulling all this bullshit.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
As max blumenthal pointed out the other day, all we hear is how this is a 'cycle of violence', as if there are two equally at fault, equally strong sides locked in a power struggle. As if one side is not oppressor and the other the oppressed. As if there is no illegal occupation.
Even if we ignore the occupation and the fact that the Israelis killed were settlers living illegally on Palestinian land, while the Palestinians killed were protesting theIr displacement (pretty key points when it comes to motive), we still are left with a massive imbalance in the way these killings played out in media and political circles. The first two Palestinians killed during the nakba day protests were shot by the IDF - both the victim and the shooter were caught on tape - the victim by CCTV, the shooter by cnn. The soldier denied involvement. The government claimed he shot only rubber bullets (autopsies conclusively showed live rounds). So the soldier was charged only with shooting a rubber bullet without orders, and suspended. That's israeli justice for the death of two Palestinian youths. The original US position was to see what the Israeli government concluded from their investigation. I don't think they've addressed it since.
The later deaths of the three israeli settlers, while unfortunate, served to shield Israel from international condemnation for the nakba day shootings, and to themselves condemn Palestine's unity government. Not to mention the mob justice lynchings provoked by some political and religious leaders, and the unjustifiable collective punishment (The Israeli government's fav breach of international law), that I mentioned in my previous post. Now they have government ministers calling for settlement expansion as retaliation for the murders. Shouldn't Israelis be outraged by their government using the deaths of their youth to advance their political agendas of oppression and land theft? The US position on this was to again back israel in condemning the act as Hamas terror, without asking for any evidence. House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Ed Royce stated that "the brutal murder of these boys should leave the Administration with no illusion that a Hamas-backed Palestinian government will be a partner for peace. With these killings, the genocidal intent of Hamas has been laid bare yet again.” Really? Three secretly investigated murders, with no convictions nor confessions, is proof of genocidal intent? The rhetoric would be staggering if the world wasn't so used to hearing this bullshit from American politicians. There is a bona-fide aggressor in this conflict, acting with overwhelming military might and international impunity, while the occupied peoples, stripped of virtually all military defence, fight international condemnation without the benefit of due process, when an atrocity is committed against their enemies. we can't ignore that. The people with the boot on their throat are not in a position to end the fight. I just can't interpret the blaming of both sides as anything but hand-washing, and tacit support for the status quo - the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their land. Ride the middle....and this is what we get. PJ should not only stay out of Israel, they should join their friend Roger Waters in supporting a call for boycott, divestment, and sanctions against Israel.
Fence sitting?? What, I should pick a side just for the hell of it, even though I think they are both equally wrong? No, not fence sitting. I've picked neither side and am off the fence altogether and walking away from it. I personally think everyone should just get the fuck out of the issue and let them work it out themselves one way or another (or not). No outside intervention is going to anything other than create more problems. Basically, I think both sides are hopeless to the point where I can barely bring myself to give a shit anymore. It's like watching 4 year olds fight. No real sense of reason, purely emotional.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I guess our difference of opinion is that both sides are equally wrong. I don't believe the facts on the ground support that position. If you saw a bar fight, and one person was virtually defenceless and being beaten, would the morally correct thing to do not be to try to stop the beating and see how things can be resolved from there? Not to say, 'I'm sure they're both at fault, let them figure it out'?
The letter below was sent out by Rebecca Vilkomerson, head of Jewish Voice for Peace today, along with the photo above, and a link to a letter to be sent to newspapers.
16 year-old Mohammed Abu Khudair was found dead in East Jerusalem, the victim of what appears to be a price tag attack following the killing of three Israeli teenagers on the West Bank. He was the 10th Palestinian killed by the IDF or right-wing extremists in the last two weeks.
We mourn his death as we do all lost lives. And we also know we must speak the truth, so that we may change the conditions that make such unthinkable violence possible in the first place.
The ongoing Israeli occupation is at the heart of this crisis.
In addition to these deaths, across the West Bank the army has sealed off entire towns, arrested more than 400 people, and raided over 100 homes. Gazans have been subjected to more than 34 bombing raids in the same period.
These are not isolated or even rare instances of human rights violations, but the intensification of the daily enforcement of the Israeli occupation. Palestinians are subjected to home demolitions, checkpoints, arrests, and indefinite detention not randomly and occasionally, but daily and systematically.
The shedding of just one child’s blood is too much and cause for deep mourning. While we mourn the 3 Israeli teenagers who were killed in the West Bank, we also mourn families of the 1,384 Palestinian children killed by the Israeli military since 2000, according to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem. That’s 1 Palestinian child killed by the Israeli military every 3 to 4 days.
The Israeli government is endangering lives and both fomenting and feeding off an atmosphere of vengeance and racism.
The Israeli government has continued to show little regard for either Israeli or Palestinian life. The pronouncements of Cabinet ministers, IDF officials, and the Prime Minister Netanyahu make it clear that revenge, not justice, is the main agenda. Emerging reports suggest that the government knew the fate of the teens long before that information was released, but withheld that information – indicating that the government’s primary aim has been to exploit the kidnapping to attack the infrastructure of Palestinian society.
Meanwhile, hundreds rioted in the streets of Jerusalem, chanting “death to the Arabs” and “we want war” while attacking Palestinians on the street, or in shops. Settlers burned down a Palestinian sheep farm in a price tag attack.
All lives are precious.
We refuse to mourn only the deaths of Palestinians, or only the deaths of Israelis. But that does not mean we can ignore the enormous power difference between Israelis and Palestinians, or pretend it is just a “cycle of violence” with no root cause or context. Each of these horrific incidents that harms both peoples happen in the context of an ongoing occupation, itself inherently a system of daily violence. And it is a system that by its very nature puts the lives, dignity, and human rights of all in jeopardy.
It is our responsibility to speak the truth.
The media in both Israel and the United States have thus far failed to offer critical reporting that can help readers understand the content of occupation or the degree of violence inflicted by the Israeli government’s escalation. But we can change that narrative – and we have to, if we want to end the occupation and injustice.
I guess our difference of opinion is that both sides are equally wrong. I don't believe the facts on the ground support that position. If you saw a bar fight, and one person was virtually defenceless and being beaten, would the morally correct thing to do not be to try to stop the beating and see how things can be resolved from there? Not to say, 'I'm sure they're both at fault, let them figure it out'?
I'm in agreement with this except I would add that the helpless one on the ground was goaded into fighting by a bigger, stronger, ruthless and relentless aggressor.
I guess our difference of opinion is that both sides are equally wrong. I don't believe the facts on the ground support that position. If you saw a bar fight, and one person was virtually defenceless and being beaten, would the morally correct thing to do not be to try to stop the beating and see how things can be resolved from there? Not to say, 'I'm sure they're both at fault, let them figure it out'?
I'm in agreement with this except I would add that the helpless one on the ground was goaded into fighting by a bigger, stronger, ruthless and relentless aggressor.
Ya, I was trying to avoid giving my friend the 'out' of debating that point, since it shouldn't matter who started the fight when someone is prone and defenceless.
For the record, I hate to portray the Palestinian people as defenceless, and I certainly don't mean to infer that they are weak, or their situation hopeless! But in the context of military might, and the ability to defend themselves while under occupation, I think it's an accurate analogy.
For the record, I hate to portray the Palestinian people as defenceless, and I certainly don't mean to infer that they are weak, or their situation hopeless! But in the context of military might, and the ability to defend themselves while under occupation, I think it's an accurate analogy.
Of course... and I don't think any Palestinian person interprets that from the analogy- it's just what it is.
Canada is inferior to the US when we compare military strength, but that doesn't mean its people are inferior. It's just what it is.
I know...it's just....it sounds like a pitiful position to be in. I'm sure Palestinians don't want pity, they want allies, someone to level the field. Unfortunately, the guy on top in this situation is powerful enough that even their old friends won't (or cannot) stand up for them in any significant way, and typical to the way most strangers act towards one another, we walk by, indifferent, self-interested, and not wanting to get involved. Without even realizing that we ARE involved; we paid for the douchebag's mma training, and the wage of the bouncer who will not to let anyone else get near him, with our tax dollars
The Palestinians chose to hop into bed with a Terrorist Group Hamas..I have zero tolerance for groups that don't value human life and have taken innocent lives.You want the world to take the Palestinian cause seriously,then police your own!!!! Choose better political allies. I wish there was huge voice of descent in the Muslim world for the actions of those who continue to put violence,hate and religious intolerance as there main goal.Where are the normal peace loving people in The Middle East ? Why aren't people screaming from the rooftops for those who continue to act with strong arm terror in Africa,Somalia,Iraq,Syria to stop,and quit dragging them down. I can turn on the news any night and can hear of Muslim extremists beheading hundreds,kidnapping school girls,slaughtering other Muslim people plotting terror and hate. As a people where is the outrage?I just don't understand the backward hateful thinking. I know this is a more isolated situation between Israel and Palestinians,but I think it all ties together.
The Palestinians chose to hop into bed with a Terrorist Group Hamas..I have zero tolerance for groups that don't value human life and have taken innocent lives.You want the world to take the Palestinian cause seriously,then police your own!!!! Choose better political allies. I wish there was huge voice of descent in the Muslim world for the actions of those who continue to put violence,hate and religious intolerance as there main goal.Where are the normal peace loving people in The Middle East ? Why aren't people screaming from the rooftops for those who continue to act with strong arm terror in Africa,Somalia,Iraq,Syria to stop,and quit dragging them down. I can turn on the news any night and can hear of Muslim extremists beheading hundreds,kidnapping school girls,slaughtering other Muslim people plotting terror and hate. As a people where is the outrage?I just don't understand the backward hateful thinking. I know this is a more isolated situation between Israel and Palestinians,but I think it all ties together.
So you have zero tolerance for people that burn to death 15 year old boys? Because clearly, these people- as you say- don't value human life and have taken innocent lives.
The Palestinians chose to hop into bed with a Terrorist Group Hamas..I have zero tolerance for groups that don't value human life and have taken innocent lives.You want the world to take the Palestinian cause seriously,then police your own!!!! Choose better political allies. I wish there was huge voice of descent in the Muslim world for the actions of those who continue to put violence,hate and religious intolerance as there main goal.Where are the normal peace loving people in The Middle East ? Why aren't people screaming from the rooftops for those who continue to act with strong arm terror in Africa,Somalia,Iraq,Syria to stop,and quit dragging them down. I can turn on the news any night and can hear of Muslim extremists beheading hundreds,kidnapping school girls,slaughtering other Muslim people plotting terror and hate. As a people where is the outrage?I just don't understand the backward hateful thinking. I know this is a more isolated situation between Israel and Palestinians,but I think it all ties together.
1 Palestinian is killed on average every 3 days. You do the math. And stop pretending Israel is the innocent here. END THE FUCKEN OCCUPATION. Enough
The Palestinians chose to hop into bed with a Terrorist Group Hamas..I have zero tolerance for groups that don't value human life and have taken innocent lives.You want the world to take the Palestinian cause seriously,then police your own!!!! Choose better political allies. I wish there was huge voice of descent in the Muslim world for the actions of those who continue to put violence,hate and religious intolerance as there main goal.Where are the normal peace loving people in The Middle East ? Why aren't people screaming from the rooftops for those who continue to act with strong arm terror in Africa,Somalia,Iraq,Syria to stop,and quit dragging them down. I can turn on the news any night and can hear of Muslim extremists beheading hundreds,kidnapping school girls,slaughtering other Muslim people plotting terror and hate. As a people where is the outrage?I just don't understand the backward hateful thinking. I know this is a more isolated situation between Israel and Palestinians,but I think it all ties together.
So you have zero tolerance for people that burn to death 15 year old boys? Because clearly, these people- as you say- don't value human life and have taken innocent lives.
Yes,Zero tolerance for those who murder.No matter what country they are from.Now answer my question !! You guys always skip over the part where accountability for the terrorist actions just gets glazed over.Then come right back with Israel this and Israel that.What about the bigger issue with the fundamentalist Islamic nonsense and its affect on the region??Wheres the outrage?
The Palestinians chose to hop into bed with a Terrorist Group Hamas..I have zero tolerance for groups that don't value human life and have taken innocent lives.You want the world to take the Palestinian cause seriously,then police your own!!!! Choose better political allies. I wish there was huge voice of descent in the Muslim world for the actions of those who continue to put violence,hate and religious intolerance as there main goal.Where are the normal peace loving people in The Middle East ? Why aren't people screaming from the rooftops for those who continue to act with strong arm terror in Africa,Somalia,Iraq,Syria to stop,and quit dragging them down. I can turn on the news any night and can hear of Muslim extremists beheading hundreds,kidnapping school girls,slaughtering other Muslim people plotting terror and hate. As a people where is the outrage?I just don't understand the backward hateful thinking. I know this is a more isolated situation between Israel and Palestinians,but I think it all ties together.
1 Palestinian is killed on average every 3 days. You do the math. And stop pretending Israel is the innocent here. END THE FUCKEN OCCUPATION. Enough
You didn't answer either.You guys have tunnel vision.
The Palestinians chose to hop into bed with a Terrorist Group Hamas..I have zero tolerance for groups that don't value human life and have taken innocent lives.You want the world to take the Palestinian cause seriously,then police your own!!!! Choose better political allies. I wish there was huge voice of descent in the Muslim world for the actions of those who continue to put violence,hate and religious intolerance as there main goal.Where are the normal peace loving people in The Middle East ? Why aren't people screaming from the rooftops for those who continue to act with strong arm terror in Africa,Somalia,Iraq,Syria to stop,and quit dragging them down. I can turn on the news any night and can hear of Muslim extremists beheading hundreds,kidnapping school girls,slaughtering other Muslim people plotting terror and hate. As a people where is the outrage?I just don't understand the backward hateful thinking. I know this is a more isolated situation between Israel and Palestinians,but I think it all ties together.
1 Palestinian is killed on average every 3 days. You do the math. And stop pretending Israel is the innocent here. END THE FUCKEN OCCUPATION. Enough
You didn't answer either.You guys have tunnel vision.
Tunnel vision? Who us???? What about your fucken blind eyes? You want fucken peace, end the fucken occupation? U want peace, stop killing innocent Palestinians. U want peace, stop meddling in everybody's affairs. U want peace, get rid of your FANATIC fundamentalists Zionists running your country. Wake the fuck up. They burned that Palestinian kid ALIVE! They burned him alive! I got news for you RR, the world is really starting to see the REAL Israel. And guess what, they dnt like what they're seeing. Lose america and Israel is fucked. Straight up rogue nation run by lunatics. And u say Arab countries are run by madmen. Look in the fucken mirror. You're not gonna see Moses that's for sure. Ya, hear the music, bring pearl jam to Israel! What a fucken joke. Only thing they should bring to Israel is handcuffs for the maniacs running that country and a 1 way ticket to Hague.
And I see they arrested the 6 people involved with burning that kid ALIVE. Now u answer me a question RR, what do u think SHOULD happen to them and what do you honestly think WILL happen to them. A parade maybe? School named after them?? You and all of us know NOTHING, ZERO will happen to them. The greatest democratic country in the Middle East? Nah, just a rogue nation running wild.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Bad Brains,I am not Israeli or Palestinian.I don't live in the Middle East.Ive said I do not support ANY killing of innocent people.Period!! So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce terrorism and distance yourselves from Hammas and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Israelis. I can tell you ,we as Americans will never quit supporting Israel.It won't happen.Nor will any of the civilized western world.Its not in our best interest.Strategically,financially,and militarily.If the Palestinians were to come out against all the Muslim violence ,the voice they want heard would be louder.Its not the Israelis I see on the news every night blowing up markets,and cars and innocent people,declaring a holy war on Everyone who Dosent believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Muslims pal.Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen.I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion.Until that happens its just more of the same.I have a problem with any religious based killing.But we are discussing your situation not others.
So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians. I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.
/see what I did there?
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Comments
I'm jus sayin
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2650048/Rolling-Stones-stars-Mick-Jagger-Ronnie-Wood-Charlie-Watts-visit-Jerusalems-Western-Wall-Israel-concert.html
Your turn to follow suit PJ!
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/14/world/middleeast/court-sentences-former-israeli-prime-minister-ehud-olmert.html
Your turn to follow suit Bibi!
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/israelis-beat-palestinian-american-teen-mother-says/
dont let them lie to you and say it wasnt Israeli soldiers.
Roger Waters is a very wise man, jus sayin'
Although I do not support the action against this young man.or violence against any innocent. I would ask what were the kids doing?Playing ball,hanging with friends,etc?No I believe they were protesting in some fashion.I would like to hear both sides of this.
and music is different..is to connect people and not create enemies..and this band knows this better than anyone...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Bad shit coming from BOTH sides. Pearl Jam should avoid the entire region as long as the Israelis AND the Palestinians keep pulling all this bullshit.
Again: Even if we ignore the occupation and the fact that the Israelis killed were settlers living illegally on Palestinian land, while the Palestinians killed were protesting theIr displacement (pretty key points when it comes to motive), we still are left with a massive imbalance in the way these killings played out in media and political circles.
The first two Palestinians killed during the nakba day protests were shot by the IDF - both the victim and the shooter were caught on tape - the victim by CCTV, the shooter by cnn. The soldier denied involvement. The government claimed he shot only rubber bullets (autopsies conclusively showed live rounds). So the soldier was charged only with shooting a rubber bullet without orders, and suspended. That's israeli justice for the death of two Palestinian youths. The original US position was to see what the Israeli government concluded from their investigation. I don't think they've addressed it since.
The later deaths of the three israeli settlers, while unfortunate, served to shield Israel from international condemnation for the nakba day shootings, and to themselves condemn Palestine's unity government. Not to mention the mob justice lynchings provoked by some political and religious leaders, and the unjustifiable collective punishment (The Israeli government's fav breach of international law), that I mentioned in my previous post. Now they have government ministers calling for settlement expansion as retaliation for the murders. Shouldn't Israelis be outraged by their government using the deaths of their youth to advance their political agendas of oppression and land theft?
The US position on this was to again back israel in condemning the act as Hamas terror, without asking for any evidence. House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Ed Royce stated that "the brutal murder of these boys should leave the Administration with no illusion that a Hamas-backed Palestinian government will be a partner for peace. With these killings, the genocidal intent of Hamas has been laid bare yet again.”
Really? Three secretly investigated murders, with no convictions nor confessions, is proof of genocidal intent? The rhetoric would be staggering if the world wasn't so used to hearing this bullshit from American politicians.
There is a bona-fide aggressor in this conflict, acting with overwhelming military might and international impunity, while the occupied peoples, stripped of virtually all military defence, fight international condemnation without the benefit of due process, when an atrocity is committed against their enemies. we can't ignore that. The people with the boot on their throat are not in a position to end the fight.
I just can't interpret the blaming of both sides as anything but hand-washing, and tacit support for the status quo - the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their land. Ride the middle....and this is what we get.
PJ should not only stay out of Israel, they should join their friend Roger Waters in supporting a call for boycott, divestment, and sanctions against Israel.
No, not fence sitting. I've picked neither side and am off the fence altogether and walking away from it. I personally think everyone should just get the fuck out of the issue and let them work it out themselves one way or another (or not). No outside intervention is going to anything other than create more problems. Basically, I think both sides are hopeless to the point where I can barely bring myself to give a shit anymore. It's like watching 4 year olds fight. No real sense of reason, purely emotional.
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/07/06/1311721/-As-a-Jew-living-in-America-the-past-week-has-changed-me-forever
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/narrative-violence-occupation.html
The letter below was sent out by Rebecca Vilkomerson, head of Jewish Voice for Peace today, along with the photo above, and a link to a letter to be sent to newspapers.
16 year-old Mohammed Abu Khudair was found dead in East Jerusalem, the victim of what appears to be a price tag attack following the killing of three Israeli teenagers on the West Bank. He was the 10th Palestinian killed by the IDF or right-wing extremists in the last two weeks.
We mourn his death as we do all lost lives. And we also know we must speak the truth, so that we may change the conditions that make such unthinkable violence possible in the first place.
The ongoing Israeli occupation is at the heart of this crisis.
In addition to these deaths, across the West Bank the army has sealed off entire towns, arrested more than 400 people, and raided over 100 homes. Gazans have been subjected to more than 34 bombing raids in the same period.
These are not isolated or even rare instances of human rights violations, but the intensification of the daily enforcement of the Israeli occupation. Palestinians are subjected to home demolitions, checkpoints, arrests, and indefinite detention not randomly and occasionally, but daily and systematically.
The shedding of just one child’s blood is too much and cause for deep mourning. While we mourn the 3 Israeli teenagers who were killed in the West Bank, we also mourn families of the 1,384 Palestinian children killed by the Israeli military since 2000, according to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem. That’s 1 Palestinian child killed by the Israeli military every 3 to 4 days.
The Israeli government is endangering lives and both fomenting and feeding off an atmosphere of vengeance and racism.
The Israeli government has continued to show little regard for either Israeli or Palestinian life. The pronouncements of Cabinet ministers, IDF officials, and the Prime Minister Netanyahu make it clear that revenge, not justice, is the main agenda. Emerging reports suggest that the government knew the fate of the teens long before that information was released, but withheld that information – indicating that the government’s primary aim has been to exploit the kidnapping to attack the infrastructure of Palestinian society.
Meanwhile, hundreds rioted in the streets of Jerusalem, chanting “death to the Arabs” and “we want war” while attacking Palestinians on the street, or in shops. Settlers burned down a Palestinian sheep farm in a price tag attack.
All lives are precious.
We refuse to mourn only the deaths of Palestinians, or only the deaths of Israelis. But that does not mean we can ignore the enormous power difference between Israelis and Palestinians, or pretend it is just a “cycle of violence” with no root cause or context. Each of these horrific incidents that harms both peoples happen in the context of an ongoing occupation, itself inherently a system of daily violence. And it is a system that by its very nature puts the lives, dignity, and human rights of all in jeopardy.
It is our responsibility to speak the truth.
The media in both Israel and the United States have thus far failed to offer critical reporting that can help readers understand the content of occupation or the degree of violence inflicted by the Israeli government’s escalation. But we can change that narrative – and we have to, if we want to end the occupation and injustice.
Canada is inferior to the US when we compare military strength, but that doesn't mean its people are inferior. It's just what it is.
I wish there was huge voice of descent in the Muslim world for the actions of those who continue to put violence,hate and religious intolerance as there main goal.Where are the normal peace loving people in The Middle East ? Why aren't people screaming from the rooftops for those who continue to act with strong arm terror in Africa,Somalia,Iraq,Syria to stop,and quit dragging them down.
I can turn on the news any night and can hear of Muslim extremists beheading hundreds,kidnapping school girls,slaughtering other Muslim people plotting terror and hate.
As a people where is the outrage?I just don't understand the backward hateful thinking.
I know this is a more isolated situation between Israel and Palestinians,but I think it all ties together.
You guys always skip over the part where accountability for the terrorist actions just gets glazed over.Then come right back with Israel this and Israel that.What about the bigger issue with the fundamentalist Islamic nonsense and its affect on the region??Wheres the outrage?
And I see they arrested the 6 people involved with burning that kid ALIVE. Now u answer me a question RR, what do u think SHOULD happen to them and what do you honestly think WILL happen to them. A parade maybe? School named after them?? You and all of us know NOTHING, ZERO will happen to them. The greatest democratic country in the Middle East? Nah, just a rogue nation running wild.
So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce terrorism and distance yourselves from Hammas and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Israelis.
I can tell you ,we as Americans will never quit supporting Israel.It won't happen.Nor will any of the civilized western world.Its not in our best interest.Strategically,financially,and militarily.If the Palestinians were to come out against all the Muslim violence ,the voice they want heard would be louder.Its not the Israelis I see on the news every night blowing up markets,and cars and innocent people,declaring a holy war on Everyone who Dosent believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Muslims pal.Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen.I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion.Until that happens its just more of the same.I have a problem with any religious based killing.But we are discussing your situation not others.
I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.
/see what I did there?