So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians. I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.
/see what I did there?
Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.
So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians. I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.
/see what I did there?
Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.
I've seen few people more disgusted by the burning of the Palestinian boy than Israelis themselves. There is shock and horror rampant amongst those people right now and if you think otherwise, you are deluded. I'm Jewish by obligation (ie. my beliefs are not aligned with Judaism but I was born into it), but I don't have a Zionistic or religious bone in my body: I believe in humanism. For who ever was responsible for burning a human body to make a point, a horrifying act which displays flagrant lack of respect for human life, I can't think of a punishment such a soulless person would deserve. To have the person killed seems too kind of a gesture.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians. I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.
/see what I did there?
Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.
I've seen few people more disgusted by the burning of the Palestinian boy than Israelis themselves. There is shock and horror rampant amongst those people right now and if you think otherwise, you are deluded. I'm Jewish by obligation (ie. my beliefs are not aligned with Judaism but I was born into it), but I don't have a Zionistic or religious bone in my body: I believe in humanism. For who ever was responsible for burning a human body to make a point, a horrifying act which displays flagrant lack of respect for human life, I can't think of a punishment such a soulless person would deserve. To have the person killed seems too kind of a gesture.
All of a sudden they're shocked and disgusted? Now? After all these years, they're finally shocked and disgusted as a nation? I'm in no way deluded benj.
I do respect your stance on this cold blooded murder. It is a shock, it is disgusting. What's gonna be more disgusting, is when NOTHING gets done to those terrorists that burned that child alive. Nothing, and if anyone who knows Israeli justice towards Israelis knows, that's exactly what's gonna happen.
So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians. I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.
/see what I did there?
Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.
Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.
So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians. I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.
/see what I did there?
Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.
Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.
This is but one of many examples:
Released September 21, 2001
We, the undersigned Muslim organizations, support the President and Congress of the U.S. in the struggle against terrorism. Holding to the ideals of both our religion and our country, we condemn all forms of terrorism, and confirm the need for perpetrators of any such acts of violence to be brought to justice, including those who carried out the attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.
Signed: Afghan Muslim Association (Fremont, CA) American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ) American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism (AMILA) Arab-American Congress, Council on American-Islamic Relations (Northern California) Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Bay Area Islamic Networks Group (ING) Islamic Society of the East Bay (Union City, CA) Islamic Society of San Francisco Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) West Zone Muslim American Society Muslim Community Association (MCA) Muslim Peace Fellowship (Nyack, NY) South Bay Islamic Association (San Jose, CA) Zaytuna Institute (Hayward, CA)
Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.
You acknowledge that there are idiots and extremists on both sides, yet you seem to set Islamic fundamentalism aside from the zionist and/or jewish extremists. They are the ones with all the power, in control of the situation, yet it is up to the people they're oppressing to denounce violence? You don't recognize the amount of blatant anti-arab racism running rampant in Israel since the three settlers were killed? Aside from the lynching, there have been large protests where people chant 'death to arabs', among other sickening terms. These people were filmed stopping cars to check identities, letting jews pass.... Netanyahu incited much of this violence. A chief rabbi called for vengeance. Another Israeli lawmaker called for straight up genocide (via reciting an old letter on her facebook)....this call for genocide of arabs was shared over a thousand times and had nearly 5,000 'likes' overnight. So where is your outrage over extremist jews, hardline zionists, anit-arab racists, etc? You're sitting here telling us it's a two-way street, without taking your own advice.
Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.
Another thing....not only are you putting the onus on the Palestinians to end the occupation - something they have zero control over, but you are sitting here telling them they need to denounce terrorism and use non-violent means to rally support for their cause. Well sir, wtf do you think the Boycott/Divest/Sanction movement is all about??? You know, the one we're asking PJ to support by NOT playing in Israel? The entire point of the movement is to raise awareness about the plight of the Palestinians, and to pressure Israel to end the occupation in a peaceful way. And it’s working. Sodastream is closing their UK flagship store, and their deal with Starbucks fell apart. 12 more EU countries have called for boycotts of companies dealing in settlement products. Unite, Britain’s largest trade union just announced that they consider Israel guilty of apartheid, and have joined the movement. It’s working. This is just in the last few days. But Israel’s apologists in this thread would deny the Palestinians their only effective means of reaching out to people of conscience for help.
So here is the deal as I see it.You want the world to get behind your issue.You have to denounce Zionism and distance yourselves from IDF and groups who support terror activities.Your people have to be willing to negotiate with the Palestinians. I can tell you ,we as pacifists will never quit supporting peace. It won't happen. Nor will any of the civilized western world. Its not in our best interest. Strategically,financially,and militarily. If Israel were to come out against all the Zionist violence, the voice they want heard would be louder. Its not the Palestinians I see on the news every night blowing up markets, cars and innocent people, declaring a holy war on everyone who doesn't believe or live the same way they feel is right. It's hard core Zionists pal. Stand against that nonsense and watch how people will start to listen. I thought it was supposed to be a peaceful religion. Until that happens its just more of the same. I have a problem with any religious based killing. But we are discussing your situation not others.
/see what I did there?
Brilliant, well done. Oh and RR, I'm not Palestinian either or Israeli. I'm a human being. And if u we're watching the right tv, you'd be seeing Israel do exactly what it is you're railing about with the Palestinians. Also RR, why didn't u answer my question about what will and should happen to the ones caught that burned the Palestinian boy ALIVE.
Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.
This is but one of many examples:
Released September 21, 2001
We, the undersigned Muslim organizations, support the President and Congress of the U.S. in the struggle against terrorism. Holding to the ideals of both our religion and our country, we condemn all forms of terrorism, and confirm the need for perpetrators of any such acts of violence to be brought to justice, including those who carried out the attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.
Signed: Afghan Muslim Association (Fremont, CA) American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ) American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism (AMILA) Arab-American Congress, Council on American-Islamic Relations (Northern California) Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Bay Area Islamic Networks Group (ING) Islamic Society of the East Bay (Union City, CA) Islamic Society of San Francisco Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) West Zone Muslim American Society Muslim Community Association (MCA) Muslim Peace Fellowship (Nyack, NY) South Bay Islamic Association (San Jose, CA) Zaytuna Institute (Hayward, CA)
Your not a pacifist siding with Hamas.Idiots and murderers on both sides need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.But you keep focusing on the smaller picture(just the Israeli/Palestinian issue )and not the fundamentalist Islamic issue which ties into it.My point is ,if the people of that region want to have the worlds ear they have to distance themselves from the bigger issue and denounce the hate filled violence of the fundamentalist.Then maybe people will listen more because they will see your not one of the terror lovers but a people who needs help.Thats not happening now.I never hear ANYONE rallying in the Muslim world to call out the bad element of there own.
You acknowledge that there are idiots and extremists on both sides, yet you seem to set Islamic fundamentalism aside from the zionist and/or jewish extremists. They are the ones with all the power, in control of the situation, yet it is up to the people they're oppressing to denounce violence? You don't recognize the amount of blatant anti-arab racism running rampant in Israel since the three settlers were killed? Aside from the lynching, there have been large protests where people chant 'death to arabs', among other sickening terms. These people were filmed stopping cars to check identities, letting jews pass.... Netanyahu incited much of this violence. A chief rabbi called for vengeance. Another Israeli lawmaker called for straight up genocide (via reciting an old letter on her facebook)....this call for genocide of arabs was shared over a thousand times and had nearly 5,000 'likes' overnight. So where is your outrage over extremist jews, hardline zionists, anit-arab racists, etc? You're sitting here telling us it's a two-way street, without taking your own advice.
That would be the Idiots.When looking at this issue the west Dosent see or hear about any Israeli hate towards Arabs .I know it exists.But it is confined to your situation and is the only one globally you would find.The Arab hate for the west and Jews is not only more widespread throughout most the Middle East but is also aimed at my country and our military.They are killing our sons and daughters as well.The Israelis are not. Like I said I do not condone any of this hate,Id love for all of it to stop.I wish I knew the answer.I wish you all knew the answer.Its clear to me no one over there does.But the continued Islamic movement toward a strict Muslim code,isolating all people who are different and the same just not Muslim enough,is dangerous and ridiculous and will not move your cause forward even a little bit.
I appreciate your passion gentlemen even though I don't agree 100%.Im sure living within that world would have many obstacles .At least you have the balls to argue your convictions.This thread is a real hot button that most on this site won't touch.
I agree with your first two sentences. But it's not 'my' situation...tho as a white, atheist-leaning white guy from canada, it becomes my situation when my government gives unflinching support to israel; financially, diplomatically, and as you agreed, from a propaganda/PR perspective. My government is complicit in the occupation. So ya, I feel a need to speak out against it every chance I get.
your approach sounds reactionary to me. there are so many more factors to terrorism and learned hate than your post would suggest. I do not buy your implied theory that Muslims, particularly middle eastern Muslims, are inherently more violent than peoples of any other race or creed. you totally overlook the socio-economic factors that lead to violence and extremism, and the roll our modern colonial powers have played in the region for...well, centuries.
The move toward a strict Muslim code that you speak of involves mostly countries dealing with inner turmoil and foreign invaders stirring sectarian tensions....most of whom are financed and armed by western powers and their regional allies, btw. In a broader focus, I would be willing to wager, the millions of Muslims living in peaceful areas are generally more likely to be moving away from the extremist interpretations of Islam, than toward them....I think your generalizations are out of line.
Reactionary?Maybe a little,Simplifying the jumble in my head into a few sentences on a Pearl Jam fan forum definitely.I do think you have blinders on If you think that Anti western sentiment is not an extremely popular way of thinking thru-out the majority of the Middle East and Northern Africa. I get the Socio-economic take,but it just Dosent hold up.Poor people in Gautamala,South Africa,Philippines ,etc are not lopping off the heads of westerners and setting up roadside bombs.Nor are they strapping explosives to their children as martyrs.That good stuff is all Muslim based violence.Yes there is millions upon millions of peace loving Islamic people all over the world.I just think the voice of reason and denouncement of terror needs to be much louder and a cause championed by Muslims worldwide.Instead I hear Clerics calling for the Israelis/Jews to be drivin to the sea and wiped from the earth.Or women kidnapped and stoned for going to school.Sex organs cut off,eyes put out,etc,etc,etc. I cannot in good faith say any of this in the name of any religious dogma is acceptable and its fucking primitive.This part of the world and that culture has been in turmoil for centuries.Always violent always battling with each other,Jews,westerners etc.So yeah I'm generalizing a lil but its based on generations of ingrained hate. If you were to take a little vaca to say Syria,Iraq,Somolia,areas of Africa, your white Canadian ass would be in grave danger simply because your from the west .Thats a fact.Dont be so willing to think that the Palestinians are without blame at all against an bigger stronger Israeli oppression.Paintings on buildings of suicide bombers and terrorists are celebrated and revered in Palestinian strongholds.The whole thing is just fucked.
Reactionary?Maybe a little,Simplifying the jumble in my head into a few sentences on a Pearl Jam fan forum definitely.I do think you have blinders on If you think that Anti western sentiment is not an extremely popular way of thinking thru-out the majority of the Middle East and Northern Africa. I get the Socio-economic take,but it just Dosent hold up.Poor people in Gautamala,South Africa,Philippines ,etc are not lopping off the heads of westerners and setting up roadside bombs.Nor are they strapping explosives to their children as martyrs.That good stuff is all Muslim based violence.Yes there is millions upon millions of peace loving Islamic people all over the world.I just think the voice of reason and denouncement of terror needs to be much louder and a cause championed by Muslims worldwide.Instead I hear Clerics calling for the Israelis/Jews to be drivin to the sea and wiped from the earth.Or women kidnapped and stoned for going to school.Sex organs cut off,eyes put out,etc,etc,etc. I cannot in good faith say any of this in the name of any religious dogma is acceptable and its fucking primitive.This part of the world and that culture has been in turmoil for centuries.Always violent always battling with each other,Jews,westerners etc.So yeah I'm generalizing a lil but its based on generations of ingrained hate. If you were to take a little vaca to say Syria,Iraq,Somolia,areas of Africa, your white Canadian ass would be in grave danger simply because your from the west .Thats a fact.Dont be so willing to think that the Palestinians are without blame at all against an bigger stronger Israeli oppression.Paintings on buildings of suicide bombers and terrorists are celebrated and revered in Palestinian strongholds.The whole thing is just fucked.
Now you're straight fucken lying RR! I've been to syria 3 times in the past up to the day the Arab "spring" began. And I didn't leave because of the spring but because my tix said it was time for me to leave. You are spreading hate and lies! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're Jewish in religion, am I correct? Be honest to. Dnt give us no bullshit like your posts. You're trying to sound like you're not a bigot but I'm def seeing racism in you. Anybody who uses lies as tactics to spread hate is nothing more than a racist. Just so u remember correctly, it was the Israelis who burned this child alive. Remember that when u bunch all Muslims together as animals. 2014 and people still think like this? Unreal
Edit- just to clarify to, I'm circassion, my people come from the Caucasus mts, so u can't get any whiter then us. And I was treated awesome there in syria. The Middle East may hate the west and when I say the west I mean the governments that run the west. They'd welcome u with open arms if u ever went to syria back then.
What's a lie???Whats bullshit??What hate am I spreading??Please do clarify!!Im not bunching ALL Muslims together.Im asking for them to show some fucking backbone and denounce terror that comes from there own. Rascist,SMFH.Give me one example.Now the way you championing the Palestinian cause I could say you are quite one sided,but I'm not going there. I take a pro west,Very Pro American,anti terror(of ALL shapes and fashion) stance here.Nothing more.I call it like I see it.I am equally outraged at violence against the Palestinians as I am the Israelis.Are you just cherry picking my responses?
Reactionary?Maybe a little,Simplifying the jumble in my head into a few sentences on a Pearl Jam fan forum definitely.I do think you have blinders on If you think that Anti western sentiment is not an extremely popular way of thinking thru-out the majority of the Middle East and Northern Africa. I get the Socio-economic take,but it just Dosent hold up.Poor people in Gautamala,South Africa,Philippines ,etc are not lopping off the heads of westerners and setting up roadside bombs.Nor are they strapping explosives to their children as martyrs.That good stuff is all Muslim based violence.Yes there is millions upon millions of peace loving Islamic people all over the world.I just think the voice of reason and denouncement of terror needs to be much louder and a cause championed by Muslims worldwide.Instead I hear Clerics calling for the Israelis/Jews to be drivin to the sea and wiped from the earth.Or women kidnapped and stoned for going to school.Sex organs cut off,eyes put out,etc,etc,etc. I cannot in good faith say any of this in the name of any religious dogma is acceptable and its fucking primitive.This part of the world and that culture has been in turmoil for centuries.Always violent always battling with each other,Jews,westerners etc.So yeah I'm generalizing a lil but its based on generations of ingrained hate. If you were to take a little vaca to say Syria,Iraq,Somolia,areas of Africa, your white Canadian ass would be in grave danger simply because your from the west .Thats a fact.Dont be so willing to think that the Palestinians are without blame at all against an bigger stronger Israeli oppression.Paintings on buildings of suicide bombers and terrorists are celebrated and revered in Palestinian strongholds.The whole thing is just fucked.
Now you're straight fucken lying RR! I've been to syria 3 times in the past up to the day the Arab "spring" began. And I didn't leave because of the spring but because my tix said it was time for me to leave. You are spreading hate and lies! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're Jewish in religion, am I correct? Be honest to. Dnt give us no bullshit like your posts. You're trying to sound like you're not a bigot but I'm def seeing racism in you. Anybody who uses lies as tactics to spread hate is nothing more than a racist. Just so u remember correctly, it was the Israelis who burned this child alive. Remember that when u bunch all Muslims together as animals. 2014 and people still think like this? Unreal
Edit- just to clarify to, I'm circassion, my people come from the Caucasus mts, so u can't get any whiter then us. And I was treated awesome there in syria. The Middle East may hate the west and when I say the west I mean the governments that run the west. They'd welcome u with open arms if u ever went to syria back then.
Badbrains, I'm not sure why it matters if the OP is Jewish or not. Not all Jews are racists, and not all racists are Jews. Some Jews are racists, and some racists are Jews. The same can be said about any other social/political/religious division. Just as you (rightly) criticize the OP for 'bunching all Muslims together as animals', you then continue on to say 'it was the Israelis who burned this child alive'. These generalizations are not good for anyone, and this is far from a semantic argument: when you project one or few's actions onto a larger group, you are simply breeding further conflict.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I apologize for lumping all "Jews" together. Wasn't my intentions. When I usually say Israeli I mean government of Israel. Which most times I clarify but I didn't. And in this thread I meant Israeli Settlers. And yes they are terrorist too. All sides have terrorist but to claim that Israel is innocent of these practices is complete bull shit. I understand that RR is pro-USA everything, which he has EVERY RIGHT TO BE. And I'll be pro Palestinian all I want just like I have the right. It's just when you come out screaming about Muslims being terrorists and yet stay silent in the actions of the Israeli governments practices is phony. And people see it. RR has been whaling about the Palestinians and Muslims all thread long but hasn't really said anything to denounce the actions of the Israelis in all this. He's said all terrorism is wrong and so can anyone else, but he's singling out the Muslims and Palestinians. I asked him what he thought should happen to the Israeli terrorists who where arrested for burning that child alive, and he hasn't answered.
When I called u a liar it was cuz of your comment about being unsafe in the Middle East cuz someone's white. Bull shit, I've been to the Middle East many times and have had zero problems there. Funny tho, I usually get problems when I come back from customs.
Lets at least get some of this shit straight.I have never said "all"Muslims are animals.I have clients,business associates and friends who practice the faith.I have not called anyone or any race a racial slur.Ive made it clear and answered your question I think anyone practicing in beatings or terror should be held to account to the fullest extent of the law.(all sides)If you read the last few discussions here you will see that is accurate.Further more,I lied about nothing.In your opinion am I wrong.sure.So be it.My state dept says different.Hence the travel warnings and cautions to western interests in the area. I feel for the mothers of these kids on both sides.Im in Florida and the boy beaten is from here so its getting plenty of evening news coverage.So is the kidnapping of the 3Israeli boys.I won't however stop calling for more voices to be heard from Muslim leaders denouncing terror.I personally think it will go a long way since the majority(not all) terrorist attacks seem to come from fundamentalist Islamic groups.That,no matter how you slice it is fact.Im sure the violence at the hands of Israelis is also terror in your mind but we both know its not the same.Is it oppressive ,over the top,police state like?I can see that.But Israelis aren't why I have to take my shoes off when I fly.Just saying.We also didn't loose thousands of soldiers to Israeli aggression.Im way more concerned about Groups like Hammas,Isis,al-Qaeda and the like in the global scheme of things.No,all Muslims are not animals or bad people or terrorist.And those are the people and groups I want to be out front and loud and condemning there own.This is not just my thought.I watched a prominent moderate Arab reporter on fox I think,calling out a much more religious fundamentalist about this same issue.I was thinking we need more of this.I feel the same way about moderate progressive Christians calling out some of the Rascist southern preachers who are against gay marriage,womans rights,etc and issues like that.Live and let live.
Lets at least get some of this shit straight.I have never said "all"Muslims are animals.I have clients,business associates and friends who practice the faith.I have not called anyone or any race a racial slur.Ive made it clear and answered your question I think anyone practicing in beatings or terror should be held to account to the fullest extent of the law.(all sides)If you read the last few discussions here you will see that is accurate.Further more,I lied about nothing.In your opinion am I wrong.sure.So be it.My state dept says different.Hence the travel warnings and cautions to western interests in the area. I feel for the mothers of these kids on both sides.Im in Florida and the boy beaten is from here so its getting plenty of evening news coverage.So is the kidnapping of the 3Israeli boys.I won't however stop calling for more voices to be heard from Muslim leaders denouncing terror.I personally think it will go a long way since the majority(not all) terrorist attacks seem to come from fundamentalist Islamic groups.That,no matter how you slice it is fact.Im sure the violence at the hands of Israelis is also terror in your mind but we both know its not the same.Is it oppressive ,over the top,police state like?I can see that.But Israelis aren't why I have to take my shoes off when I fly.Just saying.We also didn't loose thousands of soldiers to Israeli aggression.Im way more concerned about Groups like Hammas,Isis,al-Qaeda and the like in the global scheme of things.No,all Muslims are not animals or bad people or terrorist.And those are the people and groups I want to be out front and loud and condemning there own.This is not just my thought.I watched a prominent moderate Arab reporter on fox I think,calling out a much more religious fundamentalist about this same issue.I was thinking we need more of this.I feel the same way about moderate progressive Christians calling out some of the Rascist southern preachers who are against gay marriage,womans rights,etc and issues like that.Live and let live.
Fair enough RR. I really can't argue with this post. It's really not as cut and dry as u have it, wish it was. Not gonna get into it with you. I see that you def have included both sides with the issues. And I respect that, but it's much more deeper then that. And honestly, it's been a fucken hell of a crazy week in the Middle East. Lots of fucked up shit that's for sure. Good luck to the PEOPLE of Israel, u never know, u mite one day get your show.
Lets at least get some of this shit straight.I have never said "all"Muslims are animals.I have clients,business associates and friends who practice the faith.I have not called anyone or any race a racial slur.Ive made it clear and answered your question I think anyone practicing in beatings or terror should be held to account to the fullest extent of the law.(all sides)If you read the last few discussions here you will see that is accurate.Further more,I lied about nothing.In your opinion am I wrong.sure.So be it.My state dept says different.Hence the travel warnings and cautions to western interests in the area. I feel for the mothers of these kids on both sides.Im in Florida and the boy beaten is from here so its getting plenty of evening news coverage.So is the kidnapping of the 3Israeli boys.I won't however stop calling for more voices to be heard from Muslim leaders denouncing terror.I personally think it will go a long way since the majority(not all) terrorist attacks seem to come from fundamentalist Islamic groups.That,no matter how you slice it is fact.Im sure the violence at the hands of Israelis is also terror in your mind but we both know its not the same.Is it oppressive ,over the top,police state like?I can see that.But Israelis aren't why I have to take my shoes off when I fly.Just saying.We also didn't loose thousands of soldiers to Israeli aggression.Im way more concerned about Groups like Hammas,Isis,al-Qaeda and the like in the global scheme of things.No,all Muslims are not animals or bad people or terrorist.And those are the people and groups I want to be out front and loud and condemning there own.This is not just my thought.I watched a prominent moderate Arab reporter on fox I think,calling out a much more religious fundamentalist about this same issue.I was thinking we need more of this.I feel the same way about moderate progressive Christians calling out some of the Rascist southern preachers who are against gay marriage,womans rights,etc and issues like that.Live and let live.
Fair enough RR. I really can't argue with this post. It's really not as cut and dry as u have it, wish it was. Not gonna get into it with you. I see that you def have included both sides with the issues. And I respect that, but it's much more deeper then that. And honestly, it's been a fucken hell of a crazy week in the Middle East. Lots of fucked up shit that's for sure. Good luck to the PEOPLE of Israel, u never know, u mite one day get your show.
Im getting my show when Isee them this fall.I wish for all people of Israel to get a show of there own.But as I type this Ive got CNN on and it Dosent look good for Anyone over there.Hope this all ends soon.Very much a powder keg.Its our conversation on steriods with bombs and missiles.Unreal.Its time for a cold beer.
Yeah, I'm sure the band would love to play in a country that routinely commits war crimes against civilians.
Meanwhile...
• Israeli strikes on Gaza accelerated overnight. The Palestinian health ministry puts the number killed in Gaza at more than 80, including at least 20 children. A family of 8 was killed in an Israeli strike on a house in Khan Younis and a group of 8 or 9 teens were killed at a cafe while watching the World Cup.
• Gaza's health ministry says 22 Palestinian children have been killed since Israel's operation protective edge, was launched against Gaza on Tuesday.
In the first two days of the offensive 15 women and children were killed amid claims that in four air strikes only women and children were killed. According to an emergency services spokesman, Ashraf al-Qudra, in one incident a missile struck a house in Al-Maghazi, a beachside refugee camp near Deir al-Balah in central Gaza, killing a mother and her four children. Earlier, another two women and four children died in a series of raids to the north and east of Gaza City.
Yep, sounds like just the place for Pearl Jam. I'm sure they'd love an opportunity to go and perform in that racist lunatic state.
Pearl Jam plays North America, South America, Europe, and Australia. It has been 11 years since they played anywhere else - Japan in 2003. (Or since Hawaii in 2006 if you want to differentiate that, which I wouldn't.) I don't see them altering their well-established tour habits at this point in their career to play a show in Israel. Not while the occupation goes on, not while there are atrocities committed by both sides, and most likely not ever. They may prove me wrong someday but on this occasion I do not believe they are going to.
Fence sitting?? What, I should pick a side just for the hell of it, even though I think they are both equally wrong?
Gaza attack 2008-2009: 1,600 Palestinian civilian dead - 3 Israeli dead Gaza attack 2014: [So far] Over 90 Palestinian civilian dead - 0 Israeli dead
One side is occupying the other, and is supported and funded by the Worlds only superpower.
PJ Soul says it's a level playing field, and that they're both equally wrong.
I never said it was a level playing field. Don't make things up and pin them on me please. But I said that I think they are both equally wrong in their own ways.This is not an offensive or controversial comment. They are all wrong. They all react badly to everything and in the precise way that will make things worse no matter what. Wrong wrong wrong.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Fence sitting?? What, I should pick a side just for the hell of it, even though I think they are both equally wrong?
Gaza attack 2008-2009: 1,600 Palestinian civilian dead - 3 Israeli dead Gaza attack 2014: [So far] Over 90 Palestinian civilian dead - 0 Israeli dead
One side is occupying the other, and is supported and funded by the Worlds only superpower.
PJ Soul says it's a level playing field, and that they're both equally wrong.
I never said it was a level playing field. Don't make things up and pin them on me please. But I said that I think they are both equally wrong in their own ways.
They are all wrong. They all react badly to everything and in the precise way that will make things worse no matter what. Wrong wrong wrong.
How would you react to 47 years of illegal occupation and land-theft? How would you react to daily humiliation at check points, verbal abuse, beatings, stabbings, and shootings, and the destruction of your property? Last month two unarmed Palestinian teenagers were shot dead at a protest by an Israeli sniper and the IDF sniper was let off with a warning, amidst complete silence from the Western media. How would you react to that?
Fence sitting?? What, I should pick a side just for the hell of it, even though I think they are both equally wrong?
Gaza attack 2008-2009: 1,600 Palestinian civilian dead - 3 Israeli dead Gaza attack 2014: [So far] Over 90 Palestinian civilian dead - 0 Israeli dead
This is a complete bunch of nonsense. There are no Israeli casualties because of Iron Dome, otherwise there would be mass casualties. Israel is actually practicing restraint. Let's imagine that an armed group was firing missiles at NY, London, or Paris. What would the response be? Surely, if the US was attacked, there would be a response that left more than 90 people dead. And let's not forget, the reason why civilians are getting caught in the crossfire is because Hamas is hiding weapons among them.
I also saw references to the recent killings. I condemn the killing of the Palestinian in the strongest terms. The difference is the people who killed the Palestinians were widely condemned by the Israeli government and the vast majority of Israeli citizens. The murderers were captured and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Contrast that with Hamas, which is the government in Gaza, applauding the kidnapping of the three Israeli boys and the killers there have mysteriously vanished. Every day Israeli doctors treat Palestinians. Israeli hospitals would not think of turning away a sick person, regardless of religion or nationality. Now let's suppose an Israeli needed medical treatment in Gaza, Syria, Iran, etc?
Those are the facts. I try to stay out of arguing with people who don't have a clue but what's being said here is too much to ignore. As far as acts playing there, the list of acts playing in Israel including many of the world's biggest touring acts like the Stones and Justin Timberlake (and I believe close PJ bud Uncle Neil next week) is far longer than the list of artists boycotting.
Let me add that when I was in Amsterdam to see PJ, I went to all of the Holocaust memorial sites in the city. 108,000 of the 140,000 Jews in the Netherlands were murdered by the Nazis. Now it sounds like you'd like that to happen again but the lessons have been learned. Israel is a tiny country and if they didn't have the strongest military per capita in the world, the countries surrounding Israel wouldn't think twice about destroying it. Israel is doing what it must to survive and that is why it is backed by all of the world's democracies...because they would all do the same thing under the same circumstances. It's that simple.
This is a complete bunch of nonsense. There are no Israeli casualties because of Iron Dome, otherwise there would be mass casualties.
Iron Dome wasn't in place during Operation Cast Lead - it was installed in 2011, yet just 3 Israeli's were killed during that massacre of Gazans, in which 1,600 Palestinian civilians were killed, including over 400 children. How do you explain that?
Israel has never practiced restraint, which is why 90 civilians have been murdered by Israel in the past 3 days. Dropping bombs on densely populated residential areas, and deliberately shooting unarmed civilians, does not constitute restraint. They are war crimes.
Let's imagine that an armed group was firing missiles at NY, London, or Paris. What would the response be?
Short-range missiles from a few miles outside of those cities? The perpetrators would be apprehended. I doubt that bombs would be dropped on entire residential neighbourhoods. Do you?
I also saw references to the recent killings. I condemn the killing of the Palestinian in the strongest terms. The difference is the people who killed the Palestinians were widely condemned by the Israeli government and the vast majority of Israeli citizens. The murderers were captured and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Do you condemn the killing of two unarmed Palestinian teenagers by an Israeli sniper in May? Where was your outrage over that? You don't give a fuck about the murder of Palestinians, do you?
On average one Palestinian child has been killed every 3 days for the past 13 years by the Israeli's. Where's your outrage over that?
Let me add that when I was in Amsterdam to see PJ, I went to all of the Holocaust memorial sites in the city. 108,000 of the 140,000 Jews in the Netherlands were murdered by the Nazis. Now it sounds like you'd like that to happen again but the lessons have been learned. Israel is a tiny country and if they didn't have the strongest military per capita in the world, the countries surrounding Israel wouldn't think twice about destroying it. Israel is doing what it must to survive and that is why it is backed by all of the world's democracies...because they would all do the same thing under the same circumstances. It's that simple.
So because I support an end to Israel's illegal occupation I must therefore be in favour of a second holocaust of Jews? Interesting logic you have there.
Do you support Israel's illegal occupation and it's ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians? If so, then who's the racist here?
Interesting that the only two countries that supported the racist South African Apartheid regime up until the end were the U.S and Israel. It's also interesting that the only country in the World that supports Israel's race war against the Palestinians is the U.S.
Short-range missiles from a few miles outside of those cities? The perpetrators would be apprehended. I doubt that bombs would be dropped on entire residential neighbourhoods. Do you?
You cannot be serious with that response. How would they be apprehended if they are hiding within the population? So clearly, you are in favor of Israel sending in ground troops to clean this mess up. And as an American, let me assure you it is 100 percent certain that if a rocket was fired into NYC from enemy territory, if you think there wouldn't be bombs dropped on the places it was coming from, you would be extremely wrong. Or perhaps you missed what took place in Afghanistan after 9/11.
Do you condemn the killing of two unarmed Palestinian teenagers by an Israeli sniper in May? Where was your outrage over that? You don't give a fuck about the murder of Palestinians do you.
My outrage is with the Palestinian leaders, especially within Hamas, who allow their citizens to be put into a situation where such horrible circumstances are necessary. There was a video the other day of an Israeli soldier giving two young Palestinian children food and one of the children threw his arms around he solider and hugged him. I know many people who have served in the Israeli military and no Israeli soldier ever wants to be in the situation where they have to shoot someone. While there are Israeli extremists, just like there are in every society, the overwhelming vast majority of Israelis want nothing more than to live in peace with their neighbors.
So because I support an end to Israel's illegal occupation I must therefore be in favour of a second holocaust of Jews? Interesting logic you have
I think you are uninformed, ignorant, and deluded. I would like to be believe it's not because of an innate bias against Jews but I have no way of knowing that either way.
Comments
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I do respect your stance on this cold blooded murder. It is a shock, it is disgusting. What's gonna be more disgusting, is when NOTHING gets done to those terrorists that burned that child alive. Nothing, and if anyone who knows Israeli justice towards Israelis knows, that's exactly what's gonna happen.
Released September 21, 2001
We, the undersigned Muslim organizations, support the President and Congress of the U.S. in the struggle against terrorism. Holding to the ideals of both our religion and our country, we condemn all forms of terrorism, and confirm the need for perpetrators of any such acts of violence to be brought to justice, including those who carried out the attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.
Signed:
Afghan Muslim Association (Fremont, CA)
American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ)
American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism (AMILA)
Arab-American Congress, Council on American-Islamic Relations (Northern California)
Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Bay Area
Islamic Networks Group (ING)
Islamic Society of the East Bay (Union City, CA)
Islamic Society of San Francisco
Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) West Zone
Muslim American Society
Muslim Community Association (MCA)
Muslim Peace Fellowship (Nyack, NY)
South Bay Islamic Association (San Jose, CA)
Zaytuna Institute (Hayward, CA)
Google: Learn It, Love It, Use It
You don't recognize the amount of blatant anti-arab racism running rampant in Israel since the three settlers were killed? Aside from the lynching, there have been large protests where people chant 'death to arabs', among other sickening terms. These people were filmed stopping cars to check identities, letting jews pass.... Netanyahu incited much of this violence. A chief rabbi called for vengeance. Another Israeli lawmaker called for straight up genocide (via reciting an old letter on her facebook)....this call for genocide of arabs was shared over a thousand times and had nearly 5,000 'likes' overnight. So where is your outrage over extremist jews, hardline zionists, anit-arab racists, etc? You're sitting here telling us it's a two-way street, without taking your own advice.
The entire point of the movement is to raise awareness about the plight of the Palestinians, and to pressure Israel to end the occupation in a peaceful way. And it’s working. Sodastream is closing their UK flagship store, and their deal with Starbucks fell apart. 12 more EU countries have called for boycotts of companies dealing in settlement products. Unite, Britain’s largest trade union just announced that they consider Israel guilty of apartheid, and have joined the movement. It’s working. This is just in the last few days. But Israel’s apologists in this thread would deny the Palestinians their only effective means of reaching out to people of conscience for help.
Like I said I do not condone any of this hate,Id love for all of it to stop.I wish I knew the answer.I wish you all knew the answer.Its clear to me no one over there does.But the continued Islamic movement toward a strict Muslim code,isolating all people who are different and the same just not Muslim enough,is dangerous and ridiculous and will not move your cause forward even a little bit.
I appreciate your passion gentlemen even though I don't agree 100%.Im sure living within that world would have many obstacles .At least you have the balls to argue your convictions.This thread is a real hot button that most on this site won't touch.
your approach sounds reactionary to me. there are so many more factors to terrorism and learned hate than your post would suggest. I do not buy your implied theory that Muslims, particularly middle eastern Muslims, are inherently more violent than peoples of any other race or creed. you totally overlook the socio-economic factors that lead to violence and extremism, and the roll our modern colonial powers have played in the region for...well, centuries.
The move toward a strict Muslim code that you speak of involves mostly countries dealing with inner turmoil and foreign invaders stirring sectarian tensions....most of whom are financed and armed by western powers and their regional allies, btw. In a broader focus, I would be willing to wager, the millions of Muslims living in peaceful areas are generally more likely to be moving away from the extremist interpretations of Islam, than toward them....I think your generalizations are out of line.
I get the Socio-economic take,but it just Dosent hold up.Poor people in Gautamala,South Africa,Philippines ,etc are not lopping off the heads of westerners and setting up roadside bombs.Nor are they strapping explosives to their children as martyrs.That good stuff is all Muslim based violence.Yes there is millions upon millions of peace loving Islamic people all over the world.I just think the voice of reason and denouncement of terror needs to be much louder and a cause championed by Muslims worldwide.Instead I hear Clerics calling for the Israelis/Jews to be drivin to the sea and wiped from the earth.Or women kidnapped and stoned for going to school.Sex organs cut off,eyes put out,etc,etc,etc.
I cannot in good faith say any of this in the name of any religious dogma is acceptable and its fucking primitive.This part of the world and that culture has been in turmoil for centuries.Always violent always battling with each other,Jews,westerners etc.So yeah I'm generalizing a lil but its based on generations of ingrained hate.
If you were to take a little vaca to say Syria,Iraq,Somolia,areas of Africa, your white Canadian ass would be in grave danger simply because your from the west .Thats a fact.Dont be so willing to think that the Palestinians are without blame at all against an bigger stronger Israeli oppression.Paintings on buildings of suicide bombers and terrorists are celebrated and revered in Palestinian strongholds.The whole thing is just fucked.
Edit- just to clarify to, I'm circassion, my people come from the Caucasus mts, so u can't get any whiter then us. And I was treated awesome there in syria. The Middle East may hate the west and when I say the west I mean the governments that run the west. They'd welcome u with open arms if u ever went to syria back then.
Rascist,SMFH.Give me one example.Now the way you championing the Palestinian cause I could say you are quite one sided,but I'm not going there.
I take a pro west,Very Pro American,anti terror(of ALL shapes and fashion) stance here.Nothing more.I call it like I see it.I am equally outraged at violence against the Palestinians as I am the Israelis.Are you just cherry picking my responses?
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
When I called u a liar it was cuz of your comment about being unsafe in the Middle East cuz someone's white. Bull shit, I've been to the Middle East many times and have had zero problems there. Funny tho, I usually get problems when I come back from customs.
I feel for the mothers of these kids on both sides.Im in Florida and the boy beaten is from here so its getting plenty of evening news coverage.So is the kidnapping of the 3Israeli boys.I won't however stop calling for more voices to be heard from Muslim leaders denouncing terror.I personally think it will go a long way since the majority(not all) terrorist attacks seem to come from fundamentalist Islamic groups.That,no matter how you slice it is fact.Im sure the violence at the hands of Israelis is also terror in your mind but we both know its not the same.Is it oppressive ,over the top,police state like?I can see that.But Israelis aren't why I have to take my shoes off when I fly.Just saying.We also didn't loose thousands of soldiers to Israeli aggression.Im way more concerned about Groups like Hammas,Isis,al-Qaeda and the like in the global scheme of things.No,all Muslims are not animals or bad people or terrorist.And those are the people and groups I want to be out front and loud and condemning there own.This is not just my thought.I watched a prominent moderate Arab reporter on fox I think,calling out a much more religious fundamentalist about this same issue.I was thinking we need more of this.I feel the same way about moderate progressive Christians calling out some of the Rascist southern preachers who are against gay marriage,womans rights,etc and issues like that.Live and let live.
Meanwhile...
• Israeli strikes on Gaza accelerated overnight. The Palestinian health ministry puts the number killed in Gaza at more than 80, including at least 20 children. A family of 8 was killed in an Israeli strike on a house in Khan Younis and a group of 8 or 9 teens were killed at a cafe while watching the World Cup.
• Gaza's health ministry says 22 Palestinian children have been killed since Israel's operation protective edge, was launched against Gaza on Tuesday.
In the first two days of the offensive 15 women and children were killed amid claims that in four air strikes only women and children were killed. According to an emergency services spokesman, Ashraf al-Qudra, in one incident a missile struck a house in Al-Maghazi, a beachside refugee camp near Deir al-Balah in central Gaza, killing a mother and her four children. Earlier, another two women and four children died in a series of raids to the north and east of Gaza City.
Yep, sounds like just the place for Pearl Jam. I'm sure they'd love an opportunity to go and perform in that racist lunatic state.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Gaza attack 2014: [So far] Over 90 Palestinian civilian dead - 0 Israeli dead
One side is occupying the other, and is supported and funded by the Worlds only superpower.
PJ Soul says it's a level playing field, and that they're both equally wrong.
How would you react to daily humiliation at check points, verbal abuse, beatings, stabbings, and shootings, and the destruction of your property?
Last month two unarmed Palestinian teenagers were shot dead at a protest by an Israeli sniper and the IDF sniper was let off with a warning, amidst complete silence from the Western media. How would you react to that?
I also saw references to the recent killings. I condemn the killing of the Palestinian in the strongest terms. The difference is the people who killed the Palestinians were widely condemned by the Israeli government and the vast majority of Israeli citizens. The murderers were captured and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Contrast that with Hamas, which is the government in Gaza, applauding the kidnapping of the three Israeli boys and the killers there have mysteriously vanished. Every day Israeli doctors treat Palestinians. Israeli hospitals would not think of turning away a sick person, regardless of religion or nationality. Now let's suppose an Israeli needed medical treatment in Gaza, Syria, Iran, etc?
Those are the facts. I try to stay out of arguing with people who don't have a clue but what's being said here is too much to ignore. As far as acts playing there, the list of acts playing in Israel including many of the world's biggest touring acts like the Stones and Justin Timberlake (and I believe close PJ bud Uncle Neil next week) is far longer than the list of artists boycotting.
Let me add that when I was in Amsterdam to see PJ, I went to all of the Holocaust memorial sites in the city. 108,000 of the 140,000 Jews in the Netherlands were murdered by the Nazis. Now it sounds like you'd like that to happen again but the lessons have been learned. Israel is a tiny country and if they didn't have the strongest military per capita in the world, the countries surrounding Israel wouldn't think twice about destroying it. Israel is doing what it must to survive and that is why it is backed by all of the world's democracies...because they would all do the same thing under the same circumstances. It's that simple.
Short-range missiles from a few miles outside of those cities? The perpetrators would be apprehended. I doubt that bombs would be dropped on entire residential neighbourhoods. Do you?
Do you condemn the killing of two unarmed Palestinian teenagers by an Israeli sniper in May? Where was your outrage over that? You don't give a fuck about the murder of Palestinians, do you?
On average one Palestinian child has been killed every 3 days for the past 13 years by the Israeli's. Where's your outrage over that? So because I support an end to Israel's illegal occupation I must therefore be in favour of a second holocaust of Jews? Interesting logic you have there.
Do you support Israel's illegal occupation and it's ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians? If so, then who's the racist here?
It's also interesting that the only country in the World that supports Israel's race war against the Palestinians is the U.S.
My outrage is with the Palestinian leaders, especially within Hamas, who allow their citizens to be put into a situation where such horrible circumstances are necessary. There was a video the other day of an Israeli soldier giving two young Palestinian children food and one of the children threw his arms around he solider and hugged him. I know many people who have served in the Israeli military and no Israeli soldier ever wants to be in the situation where they have to shoot someone. While there are Israeli extremists, just like there are in every society, the overwhelming vast majority of Israelis want nothing more than to live in peace with their neighbors. I think you are uninformed, ignorant, and deluded. I would like to be believe it's not because of an innate bias against Jews but I have no way of knowing that either way.