What's a living wage?

Cosmo

This may be a better way to expalin it:
http://www.minimum-wage.org/wage-by-state.asp
If the state has no state minimum wage, then the Federal minimum kicks in.
There are exceptions... as Thirty Bills explained, 'tipped' workers can get as little as $2.00 per hour, plus tips. This explains how places like Car Washes can get away with the practice of paying their workers so little.
There are also exceptions for student workers and part-time workers.
...
So, the Alpha Dog can hire people for below minimum wage by hiring full time students or part-time worker and handing out tip jars to them at the beginning of their shift.

Godfather.

there has to be a way to solve this problem, I understand the issue of a small business and not being able to afford $15 an hour but what of corp's like Mc Donalds or other mega million dollar business that pay min. wage ? as I said there has got to be a way to fix this issue.


Godfather.

cp3iverson

Lots of arguments to be had. Should the person making 35k a year really only make a few dollars more than the kid slinging your fries? If a living wage gets enacted does everyone else get a nice raise too? I would hope so but then again that just moves the bar. No real change for the minimum wage folks. I just know if I was only making 17 an hour at skilled, education needed work and the mcdonalds cashier is right behind me id be asking for a raise.

unsung

Ok, so for comparison sake:

An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.

Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.

So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?

lukin2006

unsung wrote:

Ok, so for comparison sake:

An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.

Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.

So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?

is that 1400 also include living on base and food, if not the pay your military better.

fife

lukin2006 wrote:

unsung wrote:

Ok, so for comparison sake:

An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.

Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.

So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?

is that 1400 also include living on base and food, if not the pay your military better.

from what i understand, that $1400 a month is when you are on the army reserve ,meaning you can still have another job also.

http://work.chron.com/much-army-reserves-pay-9046.html

so not really a fair comparison

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung wrote:

Ok, so for comparison sake:

An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.

Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.

So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?

Why don't you say what it is you want to say:

1. Shitty people should have to work shitty jobs for shitty pay.

2. People born into good fortune should enjoy every privilege they have been afforded by being lucky at birth and be able to build upon their good fortunes by: attending good schools, living in safe neighbourhoods, having their parents' money to go to university, and being able to slide into a comfortable well-paying job either through successful studies or family succession or connections.

These are the two things I am hearing you say... without you actually saying them.

unsung

That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.

Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.

fife

unsung wrote:

That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.

Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.

to be honest, its hard to understand what you are saying cause you never elaborate on anything. you talk about the dollar losing value but then you say things like "should a burger flipper make more more than a soldier"

if you want to talk about the causes of the dollar losing value than do so but don't ask then what a living wage is?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung wrote:

That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.

Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.

Raising minimum wage will not deflate the dollar. Get serious. Companies that thrive on a profit margin based on the exploitation of the people that work on the front lines can raise the prices of their goods if they wish to pursue the same profit margin they currently enjoy, but then a choice is left to the consumer: if Big Macs are too pricey... nobody will buy them. If nobody is buying them, then McDonalds will have to lower the price of Big Macs.

In this process, what we would see is more money in the pockets of the workers and less billions in the corporate office's vault somewhere... doing nothing for anyone other than those that wish to smoke their pipes in their smoking chairs and reflect on how much money they have in a vault somewhere... while their workers ride busses to and fro work with their children looking after themselves.

MotoDC

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Why don't you say what it is you want to say:

1. Shitty people should have to work shitty jobs for shitty pay.

Why shouldn't shitty people have to do that? Although not everyone earning minimum wage is shitty -- some are just starting off, some made bad decisions in their life, some are just not very bright or capable. Doesn't make them shitty.

2. People born into good fortune should enjoy every privilege they have been afforded by being lucky at birth and be able to build upon their good fortunes by: attending good schools, living in safe neighbourhoods, having their parents' money to go to university, and being able to slide into a comfortable well-paying job either through successful studies or family succession or connections.

Why is it that everyone who makes a "living wage" must have been born into it?

MotoDC

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

unsung wrote:

That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.

Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.

Raising minimum wage will not deflate the dollar. Get serious. Companies that thrive on a profit margin based on the exploitation of the people that work on the front lines can raise the prices of their goods if they wish to pursue the same profit margin they currently enjoy, but then a choice is left to the consumer: if Big Macs are too pricey... nobody will buy them. If nobody is buying them, then McDonalds will have to lower the price of Big Macs.

In this process, what we would see is more money in the pockets of the workers and less billions in the corporate office's vault somewhere... doing nothing for anyone other than those that wish to smoke their pipes in their smoking chairs and reflect on how much money they have in a vault somewhere... while their workers ride busses to and fro work with their children looking after themselves.

Other than the (kinda cliched) melodramatic commentary around exploitation and smoking pipes in chairs, I tend to agree with the thesis here. I don't see a connection between raising the minimum wage and monetary inflation. It isn't increasing the dollars in circulation, it's just shifting them from one bucket to another. Now, that new bucket will (hopefully) be more likely to spend the newfound wealth on staple goods like food, transportation, and housing, so you could conceivably see an uptick in prices in those goods...with an offsetting reduction in the price of mega-yachts and smoking chairs, amirite Thirty Bills? :P

mickeyrat

lukin2006 wrote:

unsung wrote:

Ok, so for comparison sake:

An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.

Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.

So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?

is that 1400 also include living on base and food, if not the pay your military better.

this does include food,on base housing , stipend for off base housing if married and medical as well as dental and any other benefit(for the whole family too). In addition to being able to take college courses for free. Also there is a yearly stipend for uniform allowance. when I was in 25 years ago as an E1 in the Navy it was 800 a month.
"peacetime" at home base they are likely to work between 8-12 hours a shift weekends off unless you had duty weekend. At sea in peacetime, it was 14-16 hrs a day 7 days a week( really no different at war).

Thirty Bills Unpaid

MotoDC wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

unsung wrote:

That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.

Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.

Raising minimum wage will not deflate the dollar. Get serious. Companies that thrive on a profit margin based on the exploitation of the people that work on the front lines can raise the prices of their goods if they wish to pursue the same profit margin they currently enjoy, but then a choice is left to the consumer: if Big Macs are too pricey... nobody will buy them. If nobody is buying them, then McDonalds will have to lower the price of Big Macs.

In this process, what we would see is more money in the pockets of the workers and less billions in the corporate office's vault somewhere... doing nothing for anyone other than those that wish to smoke their pipes in their smoking chairs and reflect on how much money they have in a vault somewhere... while their workers ride busses to and fro work with their children looking after themselves.

Other than the (kinda cliched) melodramatic commentary around exploitation and smoking pipes in chairs, I tend to agree with the thesis here. I don't see a connection between raising the minimum wage and monetary inflation. It isn't increasing the dollars in circulation, it's just shifting them from one bucket to another. Now, that new bucket will (hopefully) be more likely to spend the newfound wealth on staple goods like food, transportation, and housing, so you could conceivably see an uptick in prices in those goods...with an offsetting reduction in the price of mega-yachts and smoking chairs, amirite Thirty Bills? :P

Forgive my propensity to illustrate things the way I do sometimes.

You will see competition in pricing with regards to everyday, essential items that will safeguard 'access'. I don't think it is reasonable to assume collusion occuring between, say, food markets to take the extra money that has recently been afforded to low income earners.

I think what you would see though is more spending on the part of low income earners given they have more disposable income. As a result... I think it goes without saying that aside from creating a more reasonable standard of living for those that struggle, a positive spinoff would be the creation of more jobs given the additional demand on items typically out of reach for lower wage earners and reserved for higher income earners.

If your last statement bodes true... I might just end up in the position to go buy myself a yacht and a smoking chair!

Gern Blansten

This is actually the same argument as raising taxes on corporations. The right wingers say that corporations just pass the taxes on. In reality competition sets pricing. As soon as one corporation is willing to lower their acceptable level of profit to gain market share the others follow.

cp3iverson

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

unsung wrote:

Ok, so for comparison sake:

An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.

Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.

So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?

Why don't you say what it is you want to say:

1. Shitty people should have to work shitty jobs for shitty pay.

2. People born into good fortune should enjoy every privilege they have been afforded by being lucky at birth and be able to build upon their good fortunes by: attending good schools, living in safe neighbourhoods, having their parents' money to go to university, and being able to slide into a comfortable well-paying job either through successful studies or family succession or connections.

These are the two things I am hearing you say... without you actually saying them.

Again dont make excuses for people. Everybody has the opportunity to make something of themselves. There are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. I grew up fairly poor and I worked minimum wage jobs. That was the best motivation I could have to get an education (that I paid for just like most people) and to get a great job. Not many of us "slid" into our comfy jobs. We all have childhood friends who chose to be lazy or even chose to limit their odds of success with arrest records, etc. It's not about good fortune or poor wages. It's about being smart and working hard.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cp3iverson wrote:

Again dont make excuses for people. Everybody has the opportunity to make something of themselves. There are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. I grew up fairly poor and I worked minimum wage jobs. That was the best motivation I could have to get an education (that I paid for just like most people) and to get a great job. Not many of us "slid" into our comfy jobs. We all have childhood friends who chose to be lazy or even chose to limit their odds of success with arrest records, etc. If you dont like your job then do something about it.

I'm just trying to be fair.

I did it the right way as well- nothing was given to me. But with this said, at least I had 'opportunity' (crime free neighbourhood, student loans, supportive parents, good public schools, etc.).

Tell me if the 13 year old in South Side Chicago (or Watts District, LA) has the same chance as I did? I disagree with your assertion that there are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. For those that you do speak of... the percentage that scrapped their way out of those environments and 'made it' has to be incredibly low. For the others that simply stayed out of trouble... in reality, they accepted their fates as low level workers without the chance for anything great.

The 'rags to riches' stories become best selling books and movies they are that unlikely.

cp3iverson

Deleted

cp3iverson

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

cp3iverson wrote:

Again dont make excuses for people. Everybody has the opportunity to make something of themselves. There are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. I grew up fairly poor and I worked minimum wage jobs. That was the best motivation I could have to get an education (that I paid for just like most people) and to get a great job. Not many of us "slid" into our comfy jobs. We all have childhood friends who chose to be lazy or even chose to limit their odds of success with arrest records, etc. If you dont like your job then do something about it.

I'm just trying to be fair.

I did it the right way as well- nothing was given to me. But with this said, at least I had 'opportunity' (crime free neighbourhood, student loans, supportive parents, good public schools, etc.).

Tell me if the 13 year old in South Side Chicago (or Watts District, LA) has the same chance as I did? I disagree with your assertion that there are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. For those that you do speak of... the percentage that scrapped their way out of those environments and 'made it' has to be incredibly low. For the others that simply stayed out of trouble... in reality, they accepted their fates as low level workers without the chance for anything great.
.

They dont deserve 15 an hour then. They can still better themselves rather than let society swallow them up because of where they're from. Community colleges, management track where they work whether its Wendys or what.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cp3iverson wrote:

Then maybe the answer is if you make below a certain amount and are a student of some kind then you get a kickback of some kind. I have no sympathy for someone who is 30 and making $10 an hour and just complaining about it. If that person goes to community college on the side though then they have all the help and support I could give them. I just want to see people move up and earn that better salary.

But think of the logistics for doing this:

Reality:
No parental support.
Full time work.
Minimum wage.
Bills eat up most of minimum wage salary.

Opportunity:
Community College costs money and takes time.

It's just not as easy as you are suggesting.