What's a living wage?

cp3iverson

Hard work is hard work. As someone who worked 40 hrs a week and got his degree and masters at night on a tiny salary I dont buy many excuses. It was awful but it was temporary.

Gern Blansten

And also consider that a lot of these people work more than one job. There is simply not enough time in the day (or money) to go to college.

Pay someone $15/hour and those opportunities arise.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cp3iverson wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I'm just trying to be fair.

I did it the right way as well- nothing was given to me. But with this said, at least I had 'opportunity' (crime free neighbourhood, student loans, supportive parents, good public schools, etc.).

Tell me if the 13 year old in South Side Chicago (or Watts District, LA) has the same chance as I did? I disagree with your assertion that there are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. For those that you do speak of... the percentage that scrapped their way out of those environments and 'made it' has to be incredibly low. For the others that simply stayed out of trouble... in reality, they accepted their fates as low level workers without the chance for anything great.
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They dont deserve 15 an hour then. They can still better themselves rather than let society swallow them up because of where they're from. Community colleges, management track where they work whether its Wendys or what.

Well one could look at it this way- but doing so is from a position of privilege. One might look at it from the other perspective and be just a little 'down' about an uncaring and unsupportive society that nurtures the conditions that make it extremely difficult for the impoverished to enable themselves.

Bottom line: would you rather see massive amounts of unusable cash sit in some fat cat's vault or would you rather see and support a system that sees a more equitable distribution of cash so that fat cats can still be fat cats, but the needy aren't quite as needy? Because that is what this topic is truly about.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cp3iverson wrote:

Hard work is hard work. As someone who worked 40 hrs a week and got his degree and masters at night on a tiny salary I dont buy many excuses. It was awful but it was temporary.

I have done the same thing. But let's not pat ourselves on the back too much. I had a positive upbringing that allowed me to understand the value of an education and was supported by my community along with all my peers... and it was still difficult, or, as you stated, awful.

I could not imagine the day to day hardships so many impoverished youth members face. To expect them to simply rise above them and do what we have done is a little insensitive.

ajedigecko

People living paycheck to paycheck on 735 an hour.

Will still be living paycheck to paycheck on 15 an hour.

They will simply buy more expensive stuff or more cheap stuff.

Once you live below your means...then you will make more than you need.

Last-12-Exit

ajedigecko wrote:

People living paycheck to paycheck on 735 an hour.

Will still be living paycheck to paycheck on 15 an hour.

They will simply buy more expensive stuff or more cheap stuff.

Once you live below your means...then you will make more than you need.

You nailed it square on the head.

ajedigecko

Last-12-Exit wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

People living paycheck to paycheck on 735 an hour.

Will still be living paycheck to paycheck on 15 an hour.

They will simply buy more expensive stuff or more cheap stuff.

Once you live below your means...then you will make more than you need.

You nailed it square on the head.

I lived the cycle for many years. Finally broke out of it.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Last-12-Exit wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

People living paycheck to paycheck on 735 an hour.

Will still be living paycheck to paycheck on 15 an hour.

They will simply buy more expensive stuff or more cheap stuff.

Once you live below your means...then you will make more than you need.

You nailed it square on the head.

Said from our thrones. I am pretty sure that many of the people we speak of when we refer to 'low income earners' never aspired to be 'low income earners'. They did not have a fighting chance from the outset.

People can 'make it' on nothing: I see them at intersections all the time washing windshields. And, people can 'make it' on $5 an hour. Is this the standard for which we should become complacent... or can we hope for a little more for our fellow man?

I asked a question a while back that went unanswered, but it is at the heart of this discussion: would you rather see massive amounts of unusable cash sit in some fat cat's vault, or would you rather see and support a system that sees a more equitable distribution of cash so that fat cats can still be fat cats, but the needy aren't quite as needy?

Last-12-Exit

So you want to see the government force somebody to take their hard earned money and give it to people that haven't earned it? Why do you insist on the government telling somebody how to spend their money? As someone that does give what I can to charity (united way and the red cross), but I'm not a business owner, I can't imagine feeling the urge to give if I was being told to by a "higher authority"

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Last-12-Exit wrote:

So you want to see the government force somebody to take their hard earned money and give it to people that haven't earned it? Why do you insist on the government telling somebody how to spend their money? As someone that does give what I can to charity (united way and the red cross), but I'm not a business owner, I can't imagine feeling the urge to give if I was being told to by a "higher authority"

No. I'm saying that somebody should take their hard earned money and give it to someone who has helped them earn their hard earned money after they have worked hard for them.

You do understand that capitalism unchecked is disastrous right? Not just for employees but for the environment as well. This has been proven EVERY SINGLE TIME the experiment has occurred. As generous as you claim to be... this isn't exactly the case with the overwhelming majority of others in the business of making money.

even flow - question mark

Seems we've turned what a living wage should be into the fact that 12 bucks is too much from an employer yet is not enough to live on. Makes for good reading.

Godfather.

ajedigecko wrote:

People living paycheck to paycheck on 735 an hour.

Will still be living paycheck to paycheck on 15 an hour.

They will simply buy more expensive stuff or more cheap stuff.

Once you live below your means...then you will make more than you need.

so true, I'm working on breaking out of that cycle right now, time to get back to survivle mode.


Godfather.

backseatLover12

ajedigecko wrote:

Last-12-Exit wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

People living paycheck to paycheck on 735 an hour.

Will still be living paycheck to paycheck on 15 an hour.

They will simply buy more expensive stuff or more cheap stuff.

Once you live below your means...then you will make more than you need.

You nailed it square on the head.

I lived the cycle for many years. Finally broke out of it.

I lived that cycle as well. And I broke myself out of it. Not everyone just buys more crap or more expensive stuff when they make a little more. Many are finally able to pay their bills at that point!

ajedigecko

Godfather. wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

People living paycheck to paycheck on 735 an hour.

Will still be living paycheck to paycheck on 15 an hour.

They will simply buy more expensive stuff or more cheap stuff.

Once you live below your means...then you will make more than you need.

so true, I'm working on breaking out of that cycle right now, time to get back to survivle mode.


Godfather.

I wish you the best.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Would you rather see massive amounts of unusable cash sit in some fat cat's vault or would you rather see and support a system that sees a more equitable distribution of cash so that fat cats can still be fat cats, but the needy aren't quite as needy? Because that is what this topic is truly about.

Question still remains unanswered.

I am assuming this is because people are unanimously in favour of the 'more equitable distribution' scenario.

ajedigecko

I lived the cycle for many years. Finally broke out of it.[/quote]

I lived that cycle as well. And I broke myself out of it. Not everyone just buys more crap or more expensive stuff when they make a little more. Many are finally able to pay their bills at that point![/quote]

...i hope they do stop buying.

That being said...the goal of raising the wage is to get more people buying stuff.

Our economy is based on buying.

Gern Blansten

The idea that someone making $15/hour will still spend all of their money is the perfect idea for RAISING the minimum wage.

And consider that most of what they spend will trickle UP to the lords that gave it to them. Imagine how much more business Wal-Mart would get when their best customers have MORE MONEY.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

ajedigecko wrote:

...i hope they do stop buying.

That being said...the goal of raising the wage is to get more people buying stuff.

Our economy is based on buying.

Not entirely.

You make it sound as if the only thing people would do upon experiencing a wage increase is buy t-shirts and shoes that they do not need. While this would be the case in some- maybe even many- instances... it doesn't serve as an excuse to placate the 'have nots'. And again... it is spoken from a position of relative privilege.

I do okay with the current system. I should just shut up and let the ones most directly affected speak for themselves. The problem with that though is... I guarantee they are not on these forums.

fife

quick question. lets say that someone get paid $7.25 an hour and works 40 hours a week. that a total of $1160 a month before taxes. out of that money, a person has to pay rent (if they don't live at home) food, health insurance, transportation to work and hopefully save money.

can you tell me how is this person can survive and actually improve their lives?

backseatLover12

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Would you rather see massive amounts of unusable cash sit in some fat cat's vault or would you rather see and support a system that sees a more equitable distribution of cash so that fat cats can still be fat cats, but the needy aren't quite as needy? Because that is what this topic is truly about.

Question still remains unanswered.

I am assuming this is because people are unanimously in favour of the 'more equitable distribution' scenario.

I know I am.