What's a living wage?

backseatLover12

ajedigecko wrote:

I lived the cycle for many years. Finally broke out of it.

I lived that cycle as well. And I broke myself out of it. Not everyone just buys more crap or more expensive stuff when they make a little more. Many are finally able to pay their bills at that point![/quote]

...i hope they do stop buying.

That being said...the goal of raising the wage is to get more people buying stuff.

Our economy is based on buying.[/quote]

Yet, during the WWII, people were told to scrimp and save, don't throw out anything. We were in utter turmoil as a world, let alone a country. Now, under the consumption umbrella, the feds will have you believe that the only way to improve our economy is to spend. What a bunch of bullshit. Everyone knows that the gov't gives tax cuts to companies who export jobs. Stopping that practice would improve the economy; not having people consume.

mikepegg44

MotoDC wrote:

Other than the (kinda cliched) melodramatic commentary around exploitation and smoking pipes in chairs, I tend to agree with the thesis here. I don't see a connection between raising the minimum wage and monetary inflation. It isn't increasing the dollars in circulation, it's just shifting them from one bucket to another. Now, that new bucket will (hopefully) be more likely to spend the newfound wealth on staple goods like food, transportation, and housing, so you could conceivably see an uptick in prices in those goods...with an offsetting reduction in the price of mega-yachts and smoking chairs, amirite Thirty Bills? :P

I am not worried so much about inflation, I am worried about the assumption that demand will pick up and costs won't rise that some seem to be making. People are right in saying that prices balance out and that the market rather than a business sets the prices in most cases...I believe that prices will balance to the new demand eventually....that of course assumes that there will be the same work force size suddenly making more money...and people also seem to be making the assumption that the demand will result in new jobs...

that doesn't even really take into account the fact that a need for a rise in the minimum wage is that inflation itself keeps prices rising. Wages have not kept up with inflation that is for sure, and the purchasing power of the dollar seems to be minimized by the second...without a geographically controlled formula tied to the inflation rate, raising the minimum wage once will result in things being slightly better for a few years for those lucky enough to live in an area where the cost of living is relatively low or work for a company that could afford to make that increase and won't be trimming work force.

in the end we are all making assumptions about what will happen. it seems like we are caught between two philosophies with no clear agreement possible...I mean there will always be someone waiting to fill the next burger flipper position, but if you don't pay people enough money they won't be able to buy your burgers...

The only thing I really break from my libertarian philosophy on is that employees should not be able to tie their compensation packages to the performance of the stock. Getting paid in stock leaves a CEO with many ethical dilemmas...Hell I often wonder if it should be legal to invest or hold any stocks of a company you currently work for...Too many ethical quandaries IMO...

All I know is there will never be much protection for those at the bottom or the middle until our legislators salary is tied to the median income of the country...

Gern Blansten wrote:

The idea that someone making $15/hour will still spend all of their money is the perfect idea for RAISING the minimum wage.

And consider that most of what they spend will trickle UP to the lords that gave it to them. Imagine how much more business Wal-Mart would get when their best customers have MORE MONEY.

there is no guarantee that the same amount of people will be working when the minimum wage is raised. Not every company that has min wage workers has the pockets of Walmart...


Not sure if some folks here have addressed it or not, but geographic location is still very much a factor when determining poverty levels...and minimum wage being uniform across all geographic locations is still an unfair practice. There is no solid gov't solution to a problem that society needs to solve without the threat of force.

chadwick

i haven't read or added to this thread. here goes

1st. it depends where home is.
2nd. at least $500.00 take home pay weekly
3rd. 8-10 hrs 5-6 or more days a week & allow overtime & pay ppl like a mofo

when driving a semi truck, i clocked in 60-110 hrs weekly
i expect greatness
why aren't i some CEO somewhere?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

fife wrote:

quick question. lets say that someone get paid $7.25 an hour and works 40 hours a week. that a total of $1160 a month before taxes. out of that money, a person has to pay rent (if they don't live at home) food, health insurance, transportation to work and hopefully save money.

can you tell me how is this person can survive and actually improve their lives?

Forget ever owning your own house. Rent in my city for a two bedroom townhouse/apartment ranges from $1000- 1400 with all utilities. Right away, you can see the problem when one considers your math, my city's rental rates, and then begins to factor in additional expenses.

And don't forget those 'unexpected costs' that anyone who has lived on their own has experienced time and time again.

Forget clothes, movies, and haircuts. It's kraft dinner and bridge- every day of the week.

But, in answer to your question, I suppose they get another minimum wage job and work 80 hours per week.

Godfather.

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

fife wrote:

quick question. lets say that someone get paid $7.25 an hour and works 40 hours a week. that a total of $1160 a month before taxes. out of that money, a person has to pay rent (if they don't live at home) food, health insurance, transportation to work and hopefully save money.

can you tell me how is this person can survive and actually improve their lives?

Forget ever owning your own house. Rent in my city for a two bedroom townhouse/apartment ranges from $1000- 1400 with all utilities. Right away, you can see the problem when one considers your math, my city's rental rates, and then begins to factor in additional expenses.

And don't forget those 'unexpected costs' that anyone who has lived on their own has experienced time and time again.

Forget clothes, movies, and haircuts. It's kraft dinner and bridge- every day of the week.

But, in answer to your question, I suppose they get another minimum wage job and work 80 hours per week.

my house payment-you'd shit (for a small 3br - 1 1/2 bath) but a pretty quite neighborhood close to the beach(7-8 miles) with the exception of my bike ...it's pretty loud the neighbor's love me
rent in my area $2000 to $2400 a month (for a house)
apt is $800 to $1200 a month but deeper the "hoods" of San Diego you van find them cheaper $600 or so min. wage wont work for SOME/most in S.D......BUT MANY DO...BARELY


Godfather.

fife

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

fife wrote:

quick question. lets say that someone get paid $7.25 an hour and works 40 hours a week. that a total of $1160 a month before taxes. out of that money, a person has to pay rent (if they don't live at home) food, health insurance, transportation to work and hopefully save money.

can you tell me how is this person can survive and actually improve their lives?

Forget ever owning your own house. Rent in my city for a two bedroom townhouse/apartment ranges from $1000- 1400 with all utilities. Right away, you can see the problem when one considers your math, my city's rental rates, and then begins to factor in additional expenses.

And don't forget those 'unexpected costs' that anyone who has lived on their own has experienced time and time again.

Forget clothes, movies, and haircuts. It's kraft dinner and bridge- every day of the week.

But, in answer to your question, I suppose they get another minimum wage job and work 80 hours per week.

exactly, you can't live on that amount. you create a cycle of poverty. so to answer unsung question, a living wage would allow a person to afford a basic place, food and other essentials.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

fife wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

fife wrote:

quick question. lets say that someone get paid $7.25 an hour and works 40 hours a week. that a total of $1160 a month before taxes. out of that money, a person has to pay rent (if they don't live at home) food, health insurance, transportation to work and hopefully save money.

can you tell me how is this person can survive and actually improve their lives?

Forget ever owning your own house. Rent in my city for a two bedroom townhouse/apartment ranges from $1000- 1400 with all utilities. Right away, you can see the problem when one considers your math, my city's rental rates, and then begins to factor in additional expenses.

And don't forget those 'unexpected costs' that anyone who has lived on their own has experienced time and time again.

Forget clothes, movies, and haircuts. It's kraft dinner and bridge- every day of the week.

But, in answer to your question, I suppose they get another minimum wage job and work 80 hours per week.

exactly, you can't live on that amount. you create a cycle of poverty. so to answer unsung question, a living wage would allow a person to afford a basic place, food and other essentials.

So, in summary to date:

We have established that a better system which distributes wealth more equitably is needed.

People mired in poverty have little opportunity to break, as you said, the cycle of poverty; hence, where one is born and who one is born to is the critical piece determining whether or not one is poor.

Working full time at a minimum wage job will not provide the basic means for one person.

The current minimum wages are not enough to maintain any standard of living that anyone on these boards would be complacent with.

... what have I missed?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Godfather. wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

fife wrote:

quick question. lets say that someone get paid $7.25 an hour and works 40 hours a week. that a total of $1160 a month before taxes. out of that money, a person has to pay rent (if they don't live at home) food, health insurance, transportation to work and hopefully save money.

can you tell me how is this person can survive and actually improve their lives?

Forget ever owning your own house. Rent in my city for a two bedroom townhouse/apartment ranges from $1000- 1400 with all utilities. Right away, you can see the problem when one considers your math, my city's rental rates, and then begins to factor in additional expenses.

And don't forget those 'unexpected costs' that anyone who has lived on their own has experienced time and time again.

Forget clothes, movies, and haircuts. It's kraft dinner and bridge- every day of the week.

But, in answer to your question, I suppose they get another minimum wage job and work 80 hours per week.

my house payment-you'd shit (for a small 3br - 1 1/2 bath) but a pretty quite neighborhood close to the beach(7-8 miles) with the exception of my bike ...it's pretty loud the neighbor's love me
rent in my area $2000 to $2400 a month (for a house)
apt is $800 to $1200 a month but deeper the "hoods" of San Diego you van find them cheaper $600 or so min. wage wont work for SOME/most in S.D......BUT MANY DO...BARELY


Godfather.

You live close to the beach in a quiet neighbourhood?

Godfather... somehow I pictured something a little more 'rustic'.

I was in San Diego one time with my basketball team. Loved that place. I'm a little envious of you- my driveway is covered in snow right now. Yours isn't.

chadwick

san diego is lovely. lo jolla beach (la ho e a)
fucking fantastic place to swim & whatnot
folks who live in lo jolla.... fuck off!
they have huge amounts of $$$

i like california
some places i like there more than other places there
it is crowded to my notion & EXPENSIVE
try living in san francisco

Thirty Bills Unpaid

chadwick wrote:

san diego is lovely. lo jolla beach (la ho e a)
fucking fantastic place to swim & whatnot
folks who live in lo jolla.... fuck off!
they have huge amounts of $$$

i like california
some places i like there more than other places there
it is crowded to my notion & EXPENSIVE
try living in san francisco

Saw some very distinguished homes overlooking the ocean that wouldn't have been too bad to live in!

Never saw the 'other side' of San Diego, but the reality is for one house to be awesome... another has to be the shits. Not everybody profits.

Regardless... San Diego... nice place!

Godfather.

Thirty Bills, our home was built in 1953 and rustic for sure not to mention I rarely water the yards because it's way to expensive,it's not real pretty but it's home.


Godfather.

Godfather.

I can say a good thing about S.D is that it is close to what ever you want to do snow,beach,desert and for the most part all these places are any where from 15 min. to a few hours away(desert) but beautiful mountains are only 1 hour away but..........we pay out the ass for this stuff along with the perfect weather,I plan on retiring in Vegas or Arizona and if a reliable job happened my way in either of those areas I'd be out of here in a heart beat, tax's and cost of living here is off the hook but this where I grew up so...here I am.


Godfather.

brianlux

chadwick wrote:

san diego is lovely. lo jolla beach (la ho e a)
fucking fantastic place to swim & whatnot
folks who live in lo jolla.... fuck off!
they have huge amounts of $$$

i like california
some places i like there more than other places there
it is crowded to my notion & EXPENSIVE
try living in san francisco

California is definitely a very diverse place, Chadwick, both in climate, topography and people but lot's of places that were one affordable are very expensive now. I live in SF from 1969 to 1973. The last place I lived in there was a very nice upstairs three bedroom flat that overlooked much of the city, included use of the garage, small yard and rooftop and cost my two roommates and I $200 a month. During that time, two of us worked for a company that made cloth calendars and aprons and we both made just barely over minimum wage and the other guy worked retail in a department store. Imagine that! Even adjusting for inflation, things were much less expensive then. No way could I live there now. Today people think of a living wage there terms of a salary rather than hourly wages.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Godfather. wrote:

Thirty Bills, our home was built in 1953 and rustic for sure not to mention I rarely water the yards because it's way to expensive,it's not real pretty but it's home.


Godfather.

but its home

No shiny paint, stucco work, or beautiful windows can substitute for the warmth and love that truly make a home a home.

ajedigecko

If they do raise the amount per hour... I believe you will see many automated machines replace those hourly workers.

Positive outcome will be... Many more jobs in the automation repair vocation.

fife

ajedigecko wrote:

If they do raise the amount per hour... I believe you will see many automated machines replace those hourly workers.

Positive outcome will be... Many more jobs in the automation repair vocation.

can you tell me a job that a person makes min. wage that can be replaced by machines?

Godfather.

fife wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

If they do raise the amount per hour... I believe you will see many automated machines replace those hourly workers.

Positive outcome will be... Many more jobs in the automation repair vocation.

can you tell me a job that a person makes min. wage that can be replaced by machines?

it's already happening.

Godfather.

ajedigecko

You think it would be difficult to create a machine that can assemble whoppers?

Godfather.

ajedigecko wrote:

You think it would be difficult to create a machine that can assemble whoppers?

have you ever noticed how perfect and exact weight of a burger is at these places ?....min.wage wont do that.
or the soda machines at 7/11...gone are the day's of a soda jerk, or how about hand painted toy's,dishes or cars..
robotic's have been and will be the future and demise of the unskilled worker taking min.wage along with them.


Godfather.

Jason P

fife wrote:

can you tell me a job that a person makes min. wage that can be replaced by machines?

The cotton gin is the first to come to mind. I'm sure there are more.