I'm probably in the minority in this thread but I have to admit, I haven't read all the posts, either. It seems like PJ has a lot of democrat fans, as do most artists, so I watch my words wisely and fully expect an attack!
I have happened to be lucky enough at age 33 to have opened 1 small restaurant, and used my experience in the food world to help me to be successful enough to have a second one opening in March. They both are under my corporation, which I created in order to protect my businesses, and limit my taxes. With that said, I have no outstanding loans, have paid off my undergrad and culinary schools, and really only have my house's mortgage- I was very careful to work hard and play the market successfully while in my 20's. I am in no way a genius, just a very hard worker who never accepts "I can't" as an answer. There's always a way. Ok, no more self-fluffing, I just needed to explain why I feel the way I do.
If I have to pay my employees a guaranteed $15 an hour, I won't have a business any longer. I live paycheck to paycheck and that's fine with me. By raising the minimum pay, the same pool of people in a relatively unskilled labor force now make more money, without adding any skill or quality to their work. Not a good idea. I love my employees, it's not about that. The hand outs and common expectation that someone owes us something is unfortunately really hurting our country. You can't have capitalism with socialist/communist principles. Capitalism simply makes some have and others not. The food chain writ large if you will. By paying people more money, all that happens is people get less skilled, and more entitled and dependent on the hand outs. It's like your aquarium- the fish come for their feeding time. Democratic principles have created human zombies now in our country who flock for feeding time. Gone are the self-starters and business. Gone are the ruthless and the one's who started this country. Do you think that the forefathers and those who ran from persecution in other lands were waiting for handouts? Nope. They did it themselves. Those who have worked hard or created business are now hated and called the "have's?" I'm certainly very far from a "have," but jeez, why is everyone hating on those who played the game smartly? I agree, tax the shit out of them, because they have the cash to pay, but don't for a second think that by spreading out this money to the impoverished and those who aren't going to play the game that it will fix anything. It will end up in the pockets of those who have fought hard and played the game the right way. It just digs the hole deeper and hinders our economy more. When's the next economic surplus anyway?
Would you close your doors or would you pass along your extra costs to the consumer? All of your competition would be paying the increased cost too, so I don't really understand this argument.
But I do appreciate having a business owners opinion here. Makes for a better conversation.
I'm probably in the minority in this thread but I have to admit, I haven't read all the posts, either. It seems like PJ has a lot of democrat fans, as do most artists, so I watch my words wisely and fully expect an attack!
I have happened to be lucky enough at age 33 to have opened 1 small restaurant, and used my experience in the food world to help me to be successful enough to have a second one opening in March. They both are under my corporation, which I created in order to protect my businesses, and limit my taxes. With that said, I have no outstanding loans, have paid off my undergrad and culinary schools, and really only have my house's mortgage- I was very careful to work hard and play the market successfully while in my 20's. I am in no way a genius, just a very hard worker who never accepts "I can't" as an answer. There's always a way. Ok, no more self-fluffing, I just needed to explain why I feel the way I do.
If I have to pay my employees a guaranteed $15 an hour, I won't have a business any longer. I live paycheck to paycheck and that's fine with me. By raising the minimum pay, the same pool of people in a relatively unskilled labor force now make more money, without adding any skill or quality to their work. Not a good idea. I love my employees, it's not about that. The hand outs and common expectation that someone owes us something is unfortunately really hurting our country. You can't have capitalism with socialist/communist principles. Capitalism simply makes some have and others not. The food chain writ large if you will. By paying people more money, all that happens is people get less skilled, and more entitled and dependent on the hand outs. It's like your aquarium- the fish come for their feeding time. Democratic principles have created human zombies now in our country who flock for feeding time. Gone are the self-starters and business. Gone are the ruthless and the one's who started this country. Do you think that the forefathers and those who ran from persecution in other lands were waiting for handouts? Nope. They did it themselves. Those who have worked hard or created business are now hated and called the "have's?" I'm certainly very far from a "have," but jeez, why is everyone hating on those who played the game smartly? I agree, tax the shit out of them, because they have the cash to pay, but don't for a second think that by spreading out this money to the impoverished and those who aren't going to play the game that it will fix anything. It will end up in the pockets of those who have fought hard and played the game the right way. It just digs the hole deeper and hinders our economy more. When's the next economic surplus anyway?
Would you close your doors or would you pass along your extra costs to the consumer? All of your competition would be paying the increased cost too, so I don't really understand this argument.
But I do appreciate having a business owners opinion here. Makes for a better conversation.
Well of course I wouldn't close my doors at first. I would pass the costs onto the consumer, but there's a ceiling here that a consumer is willing to pay for something. Without saying what product my business sells because I believe forum or not I have a right to my privacy, most people would be amazed at how small a profit is after all of a businesses expenses. Rent, labor, utilities, NNN, city code costs, business insurance, workers comp insurance, internet and phone, produce, dry goods, equipment, equipment maintenance, preventative maintenance, training, etc. not to mention sales tax, and federal tax all add up. I don't see how my business could make it if I suddenly had to double my salaries to my employees. The fact I think simply put is the public would once again cry for higher pay because they can't afford to pay for life's simple things like what I happen to serve. Where's the ceiling/ where does it stop?
In a capitalist society as I said before it is a dog eat dog world. Not a dog eats some food and then saves some for the smaller more helpless dog. The alpha takes what he wants, and so it goes....
Minimum wage is currently state by state also, so I'm not really sure if it would federally mandated or continue to be state.
I'm probably in the minority in this thread but I have to admit, I haven't read all the posts, either. It seems like PJ has a lot of democrat fans, as do most artists, so I watch my words wisely and fully expect an attack!
I have happened to be lucky enough at age 33 to have opened 1 small restaurant, and used my experience in the food world to help me to be successful enough to have a second one opening in March. They both are under my corporation, which I created in order to protect my businesses, and limit my taxes. With that said, I have no outstanding loans, have paid off my undergrad and culinary schools, and really only have my house's mortgage- I was very careful to work hard and play the market successfully while in my 20's. I am in no way a genius, just a very hard worker who never accepts "I can't" as an answer. There's always a way. Ok, no more self-fluffing, I just needed to explain why I feel the way I do.
If I have to pay my employees a guaranteed $15 an hour, I won't have a business any longer. I live paycheck to paycheck and that's fine with me. By raising the minimum pay, the same pool of people in a relatively unskilled labor force now make more money, without adding any skill or quality to their work. Not a good idea. I love my employees, it's not about that. The hand outs and common expectation that someone owes us something is unfortunately really hurting our country. You can't have capitalism with socialist/communist principles. Capitalism simply makes some have and others not. The food chain writ large if you will. By paying people more money, all that happens is people get less skilled, and more entitled and dependent on the hand outs. It's like your aquarium- the fish come for their feeding time. Democratic principles have created human zombies now in our country who flock for feeding time. Gone are the self-starters and business. Gone are the ruthless and the one's who started this country. Do you think that the forefathers and those who ran from persecution in other lands were waiting for handouts? Nope. They did it themselves. Those who have worked hard or created business are now hated and called the "have's?" I'm certainly very far from a "have," but jeez, why is everyone hating on those who played the game smartly? I agree, tax the shit out of them, because they have the cash to pay, but don't for a second think that by spreading out this money to the impoverished and those who aren't going to play the game that it will fix anything. It will end up in the pockets of those who have fought hard and played the game the right way. It just digs the hole deeper and hinders our economy more. When's the next economic surplus anyway?
Would you close your doors or would you pass along your extra costs to the consumer? All of your competition would be paying the increased cost too, so I don't really understand this argument.
But I do appreciate having a business owners opinion here. Makes for a better conversation.
Well of course I wouldn't close my doors at first. I would pass the costs onto the consumer, but there's a ceiling here that a consumer is willing to pay for something. Without saying what product my business sells because I believe forum or not I have a right to my privacy, most people would be amazed at how small a profit is after all of a businesses expenses. Rent, labor, utilities, NNN, city code costs, business insurance, workers comp insurance, internet and phone, produce, dry goods, equipment, equipment maintenance, preventative maintenance, training, etc. not to mention sales tax, and federal tax all add up. I don't see how my business could make it if I suddenly had to double my salaries to my employees. The fact I think simply put is the public would once again cry for higher pay because they can't afford to pay for life's simple things like what I happen to serve. Where's the ceiling/ where does it stop?
In a capitalist society as I said before it is a dog eat dog world. Not a dog eats some food and then saves some for the smaller more helpless dog. The alpha takes what he wants, and so it goes....
Minimum wage is currently state by state also, so I'm not really sure if it would federally mandated or continue to be state.
In a capitalist society as I said before it is a dog eat dog world. Not a dog eats some food and then saves some for the smaller more helpless dog. The alpha takes what he wants, and so it goes....
...
This is a sad but true statement. It is too bad that we are reduced to the level of dog's eating other dogs.
An example of totally unregulated free-enterprise capitalism is the street drug business. If left solely for their market to decide, without any and all government regulation and laws... it is a smart business practice to kill your competition to increase your market share.
Again, that is the extreme... but in some business, it may just fall short of literally murdering your competition.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Yeah, I have both younger kids and adults with kids who work for me. Still, just because people feel they're worth $15 and hour, doesn't mean they are.
Just to clarify... I don't think anybody is saying $15 should be the minimum wage.
I think people are saying $3 should not be the minimum wage.
I worked in the restaurant and pub industry for many years placing myself through university. This is one industry that might prove the exception because workers can count on gratuities to supplement the lower wage. Tips were infinitely greater than my 'salary' (if that is what you wanted to call it).
Oh, right on. Is $3 the minimum wage in some states? That can't be right, can it?
...
Yeah... I can't figure that out either. http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm
Southern States have no State Minimum Wage and some states have lower than the $7.25 minimum for very small businesses (under 6 employees, for example).
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Oh, right on. Is $3 the minimum wage in some states? That can't be right, can it?
...
Yeah... I can't figure that out either. http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm
Southern States have no State Minimum Wage and some states have lower than the $7.25 minimum for very small businesses (under 6 employees, for example).
I was looking as well.
There is a federal minimum wage of $7.25. For tipped workers there is a federal wage of $2.13 per hour.
I don't want to get too much into the statistics, but a natural question I have is what exactly is a tipped worker? While waiters and bartenders earn generous tips, a chamber maid doesn't. As well, restaurants I have worked at had 'tip pool' where there was a formula that waiters needed to pay into so bartenders, busboys, cooks and dishwashers got tip money as well. Busboys didn't receive a huge portion of 'tip pool'... but are they considered a tipped worker?
I have also tipped movers and cab drivers and a variety of other people as well. Does this place them into such a category?
Aside from all the aforementioned... I think what this thread has centered itself on was the notion of establishing a minimum wage or allowing for a deregulated capitalist market to determine what wages should be.
This may be a better way to expalin it: http://www.minimum-wage.org/wage-by-state.asp
If the state has no state minimum wage, then the Federal minimum kicks in.
There are exceptions... as Thirty Bills explained, 'tipped' workers can get as little as $2.00 per hour, plus tips. This explains how places like Car Washes can get away with the practice of paying their workers so little.
There are also exceptions for student workers and part-time workers.
...
So, the Alpha Dog can hire people for below minimum wage by hiring full time students or part-time worker and handing out tip jars to them at the beginning of their shift.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
there has to be a way to solve this problem, I understand the issue of a small business and not being able to afford $15 an hour but what of corp's like Mc Donalds or other mega million dollar business that pay min. wage ? as I said there has got to be a way to fix this issue.
Lots of arguments to be had. Should the person making 35k a year really only make a few dollars more than the kid slinging your fries? If a living wage gets enacted does everyone else get a nice raise too? I would hope so but then again that just moves the bar. No real change for the minimum wage folks. I just know if I was only making 17 an hour at skilled, education needed work and the mcdonalds cashier is right behind me id be asking for a raise.
An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.
Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.
So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?
An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.
Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.
So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?
is that 1400 also include living on base and food, if not the pay your military better.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.
Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.
So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?
is that 1400 also include living on base and food, if not the pay your military better.
from what i understand, that $1400 a month is when you are on the army reserve ,meaning you can still have another job also.
An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.
Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.
So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?
Why don't you say what it is you want to say:
1. Shitty people should have to work shitty jobs for shitty pay.
2. People born into good fortune should enjoy every privilege they have been afforded by being lucky at birth and be able to build upon their good fortunes by: attending good schools, living in safe neighbourhoods, having their parents' money to go to university, and being able to slide into a comfortable well-paying job either through successful studies or family succession or connections.
These are the two things I am hearing you say... without you actually saying them.
That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.
Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.
That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.
Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.
to be honest, its hard to understand what you are saying cause you never elaborate on anything. you talk about the dollar losing value but then you say things like "should a burger flipper make more more than a soldier"
if you want to talk about the causes of the dollar losing value than do so but don't ask then what a living wage is?
That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.
Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.
Raising minimum wage will not deflate the dollar. Get serious. Companies that thrive on a profit margin based on the exploitation of the people that work on the front lines can raise the prices of their goods if they wish to pursue the same profit margin they currently enjoy, but then a choice is left to the consumer: if Big Macs are too pricey... nobody will buy them. If nobody is buying them, then McDonalds will have to lower the price of Big Macs.
In this process, what we would see is more money in the pockets of the workers and less billions in the corporate office's vault somewhere... doing nothing for anyone other than those that wish to smoke their pipes in their smoking chairs and reflect on how much money they have in a vault somewhere... while their workers ride busses to and fro work with their children looking after themselves.
1. Shitty people should have to work shitty jobs for shitty pay.
Why shouldn't shitty people have to do that? Although not everyone earning minimum wage is shitty -- some are just starting off, some made bad decisions in their life, some are just not very bright or capable. Doesn't make them shitty.
2. People born into good fortune should enjoy every privilege they have been afforded by being lucky at birth and be able to build upon their good fortunes by: attending good schools, living in safe neighbourhoods, having their parents' money to go to university, and being able to slide into a comfortable well-paying job either through successful studies or family succession or connections.
Why is it that everyone who makes a "living wage" must have been born into it?
That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.
Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.
Raising minimum wage will not deflate the dollar. Get serious. Companies that thrive on a profit margin based on the exploitation of the people that work on the front lines can raise the prices of their goods if they wish to pursue the same profit margin they currently enjoy, but then a choice is left to the consumer: if Big Macs are too pricey... nobody will buy them. If nobody is buying them, then McDonalds will have to lower the price of Big Macs.
In this process, what we would see is more money in the pockets of the workers and less billions in the corporate office's vault somewhere... doing nothing for anyone other than those that wish to smoke their pipes in their smoking chairs and reflect on how much money they have in a vault somewhere... while their workers ride busses to and fro work with their children looking after themselves.
Other than the (kinda cliched) melodramatic commentary around exploitation and smoking pipes in chairs, I tend to agree with the thesis here. I don't see a connection between raising the minimum wage and monetary inflation. It isn't increasing the dollars in circulation, it's just shifting them from one bucket to another. Now, that new bucket will (hopefully) be more likely to spend the newfound wealth on staple goods like food, transportation, and housing, so you could conceivably see an uptick in prices in those goods...with an offsetting reduction in the price of mega-yachts and smoking chairs, amirite Thirty Bills? :P
An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.
Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.
So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?
is that 1400 also include living on base and food, if not the pay your military better.
this does include food,on base housing , stipend for off base housing if married and medical as well as dental and any other benefit(for the whole family too). In addition to being able to take college courses for free. Also there is a yearly stipend for uniform allowance. when I was in 25 years ago as an E1 in the Navy it was 800 a month.
"peacetime" at home base they are likely to work between 8-12 hours a shift weekends off unless you had duty weekend. At sea in peacetime, it was 14-16 hrs a day 7 days a week( really no different at war).
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
That's because that's not what I'm saying but I'm done trying to explain why raising the minimum wage won't solve the problem of the dollar losing value.
Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.
Raising minimum wage will not deflate the dollar. Get serious. Companies that thrive on a profit margin based on the exploitation of the people that work on the front lines can raise the prices of their goods if they wish to pursue the same profit margin they currently enjoy, but then a choice is left to the consumer: if Big Macs are too pricey... nobody will buy them. If nobody is buying them, then McDonalds will have to lower the price of Big Macs.
In this process, what we would see is more money in the pockets of the workers and less billions in the corporate office's vault somewhere... doing nothing for anyone other than those that wish to smoke their pipes in their smoking chairs and reflect on how much money they have in a vault somewhere... while their workers ride busses to and fro work with their children looking after themselves.
Other than the (kinda cliched) melodramatic commentary around exploitation and smoking pipes in chairs, I tend to agree with the thesis here. I don't see a connection between raising the minimum wage and monetary inflation. It isn't increasing the dollars in circulation, it's just shifting them from one bucket to another. Now, that new bucket will (hopefully) be more likely to spend the newfound wealth on staple goods like food, transportation, and housing, so you could conceivably see an uptick in prices in those goods...with an offsetting reduction in the price of mega-yachts and smoking chairs, amirite Thirty Bills? :P
Forgive my propensity to illustrate things the way I do sometimes.
You will see competition in pricing with regards to everyday, essential items that will safeguard 'access'. I don't think it is reasonable to assume collusion occuring between, say, food markets to take the extra money that has recently been afforded to low income earners.
I think what you would see though is more spending on the part of low income earners given they have more disposable income. As a result... I think it goes without saying that aside from creating a more reasonable standard of living for those that struggle, a positive spinoff would be the creation of more jobs given the additional demand on items typically out of reach for lower wage earners and reserved for higher income earners.
If your last statement bodes true... I might just end up in the position to go buy myself a yacht and a smoking chair!
This is actually the same argument as raising taxes on corporations. The right wingers say that corporations just pass the taxes on. In reality competition sets pricing. As soon as one corporation is willing to lower their acceptable level of profit to gain market share the others follow.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.
Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.
So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?
Why don't you say what it is you want to say:
1. Shitty people should have to work shitty jobs for shitty pay.
2. People born into good fortune should enjoy every privilege they have been afforded by being lucky at birth and be able to build upon their good fortunes by: attending good schools, living in safe neighbourhoods, having their parents' money to go to university, and being able to slide into a comfortable well-paying job either through successful studies or family succession or connections.
These are the two things I am hearing you say... without you actually saying them.
Again dont make excuses for people. Everybody has the opportunity to make something of themselves. There are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. I grew up fairly poor and I worked minimum wage jobs. That was the best motivation I could have to get an education (that I paid for just like most people) and to get a great job. Not many of us "slid" into our comfy jobs. We all have childhood friends who chose to be lazy or even chose to limit their odds of success with arrest records, etc. It's not about good fortune or poor wages. It's about being smart and working hard.
Again dont make excuses for people. Everybody has the opportunity to make something of themselves. There are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. I grew up fairly poor and I worked minimum wage jobs. That was the best motivation I could have to get an education (that I paid for just like most people) and to get a great job. Not many of us "slid" into our comfy jobs. We all have childhood friends who chose to be lazy or even chose to limit their odds of success with arrest records, etc. If you dont like your job then do something about it.
I'm just trying to be fair.
I did it the right way as well- nothing was given to me. But with this said, at least I had 'opportunity' (crime free neighbourhood, student loans, supportive parents, good public schools, etc.).
Tell me if the 13 year old in South Side Chicago (or Watts District, LA) has the same chance as I did? I disagree with your assertion that there are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. For those that you do speak of... the percentage that scrapped their way out of those environments and 'made it' has to be incredibly low. For the others that simply stayed out of trouble... in reality, they accepted their fates as low level workers without the chance for anything great.
The 'rags to riches' stories become best selling books and movies they are that unlikely.
Again dont make excuses for people. Everybody has the opportunity to make something of themselves. There are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. I grew up fairly poor and I worked minimum wage jobs. That was the best motivation I could have to get an education (that I paid for just like most people) and to get a great job. Not many of us "slid" into our comfy jobs. We all have childhood friends who chose to be lazy or even chose to limit their odds of success with arrest records, etc. If you dont like your job then do something about it.
I'm just trying to be fair.
I did it the right way as well- nothing was given to me. But with this said, at least I had 'opportunity' (crime free neighbourhood, student loans, supportive parents, good public schools, etc.).
Tell me if the 13 year old in South Side Chicago (or Watts District, LA) has the same chance as I did? I disagree with your assertion that there are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. For those that you do speak of... the percentage that scrapped their way out of those environments and 'made it' has to be incredibly low. For the others that simply stayed out of trouble... in reality, they accepted their fates as low level workers without the chance for anything great.
.
They dont deserve 15 an hour then. They can still better themselves rather than let society swallow them up because of where they're from. Community colleges, management track where they work whether its Wendys or what.
Then maybe the answer is if you make below a certain amount and are a student of some kind then you get a kickback of some kind. I have no sympathy for someone who is 30 and making $10 an hour and just complaining about it. If that person goes to community college on the side though then they have all the help and support I could give them. I just want to see people move up and earn that better salary.
But think of the logistics for doing this:
Reality:
No parental support.
Full time work.
Minimum wage.
Bills eat up most of minimum wage salary.
Opportunity:
Community College costs money and takes time.
Comments
Would you close your doors or would you pass along your extra costs to the consumer? All of your competition would be paying the increased cost too, so I don't really understand this argument.
But I do appreciate having a business owners opinion here. Makes for a better conversation.
Well of course I wouldn't close my doors at first. I would pass the costs onto the consumer, but there's a ceiling here that a consumer is willing to pay for something. Without saying what product my business sells because I believe forum or not I have a right to my privacy, most people would be amazed at how small a profit is after all of a businesses expenses. Rent, labor, utilities, NNN, city code costs, business insurance, workers comp insurance, internet and phone, produce, dry goods, equipment, equipment maintenance, preventative maintenance, training, etc. not to mention sales tax, and federal tax all add up. I don't see how my business could make it if I suddenly had to double my salaries to my employees. The fact I think simply put is the public would once again cry for higher pay because they can't afford to pay for life's simple things like what I happen to serve. Where's the ceiling/ where does it stop?
In a capitalist society as I said before it is a dog eat dog world. Not a dog eats some food and then saves some for the smaller more helpless dog. The alpha takes what he wants, and so it goes....
Minimum wage is currently state by state also, so I'm not really sure if it would federally mandated or continue to be state.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Like Cosmo said, no easy answers.
This is a sad but true statement. It is too bad that we are reduced to the level of dog's eating other dogs.
An example of totally unregulated free-enterprise capitalism is the street drug business. If left solely for their market to decide, without any and all government regulation and laws... it is a smart business practice to kill your competition to increase your market share.
Again, that is the extreme... but in some business, it may just fall short of literally murdering your competition.
Hail, Hail!!!
Just to clarify... I don't think anybody is saying $15 should be the minimum wage.
I think people are saying $3 should not be the minimum wage.
I worked in the restaurant and pub industry for many years placing myself through university. This is one industry that might prove the exception because workers can count on gratuities to supplement the lower wage. Tips were infinitely greater than my 'salary' (if that is what you wanted to call it).
Yeah... I can't figure that out either.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm
Southern States have no State Minimum Wage and some states have lower than the $7.25 minimum for very small businesses (under 6 employees, for example).
Hail, Hail!!!
I have no idea what that was saying. My understanding is that it's a federally mandated limit.
I was looking as well.
There is a federal minimum wage of $7.25. For tipped workers there is a federal wage of $2.13 per hour.
I don't want to get too much into the statistics, but a natural question I have is what exactly is a tipped worker? While waiters and bartenders earn generous tips, a chamber maid doesn't. As well, restaurants I have worked at had 'tip pool' where there was a formula that waiters needed to pay into so bartenders, busboys, cooks and dishwashers got tip money as well. Busboys didn't receive a huge portion of 'tip pool'... but are they considered a tipped worker?
I have also tipped movers and cab drivers and a variety of other people as well. Does this place them into such a category?
Aside from all the aforementioned... I think what this thread has centered itself on was the notion of establishing a minimum wage or allowing for a deregulated capitalist market to determine what wages should be.
http://www.minimum-wage.org/wage-by-state.asp
If the state has no state minimum wage, then the Federal minimum kicks in.
There are exceptions... as Thirty Bills explained, 'tipped' workers can get as little as $2.00 per hour, plus tips. This explains how places like Car Washes can get away with the practice of paying their workers so little.
There are also exceptions for student workers and part-time workers.
...
So, the Alpha Dog can hire people for below minimum wage by hiring full time students or part-time worker and handing out tip jars to them at the beginning of their shift.
Hail, Hail!!!
Godfather.
An Army E1 makes $1400 a month which equals $8.75/hr for a 40 hr work week. I'm sure most will agree that their hours exceed 40 a week. So reality is they are closer to the fed minimum wage, if not below it.
Burger flippers, fry guys, dishwashers want $15/hr, and most here seem to be supporting that.
So my question is, do you guys support paying fast food workers over 70% more than active duty soldiers?
is that 1400 also include living on base and food, if not the pay your military better.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
from what i understand, that $1400 a month is when you are on the army reserve ,meaning you can still have another job also.
http://work.chron.com/much-army-reserves-pay-9046.html
so not really a fair comparison
Why don't you say what it is you want to say:
1. Shitty people should have to work shitty jobs for shitty pay.
2. People born into good fortune should enjoy every privilege they have been afforded by being lucky at birth and be able to build upon their good fortunes by: attending good schools, living in safe neighbourhoods, having their parents' money to go to university, and being able to slide into a comfortable well-paying job either through successful studies or family succession or connections.
These are the two things I am hearing you say... without you actually saying them.
Quit treating the symptoms, try treating the cause.
to be honest, its hard to understand what you are saying cause you never elaborate on anything. you talk about the dollar losing value but then you say things like "should a burger flipper make more more than a soldier"
if you want to talk about the causes of the dollar losing value than do so but don't ask then what a living wage is?
Raising minimum wage will not deflate the dollar. Get serious. Companies that thrive on a profit margin based on the exploitation of the people that work on the front lines can raise the prices of their goods if they wish to pursue the same profit margin they currently enjoy, but then a choice is left to the consumer: if Big Macs are too pricey... nobody will buy them. If nobody is buying them, then McDonalds will have to lower the price of Big Macs.
In this process, what we would see is more money in the pockets of the workers and less billions in the corporate office's vault somewhere... doing nothing for anyone other than those that wish to smoke their pipes in their smoking chairs and reflect on how much money they have in a vault somewhere... while their workers ride busses to and fro work with their children looking after themselves.
Why is it that everyone who makes a "living wage" must have been born into it?
"peacetime" at home base they are likely to work between 8-12 hours a shift weekends off unless you had duty weekend. At sea in peacetime, it was 14-16 hrs a day 7 days a week( really no different at war).
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Forgive my propensity to illustrate things the way I do sometimes.
You will see competition in pricing with regards to everyday, essential items that will safeguard 'access'. I don't think it is reasonable to assume collusion occuring between, say, food markets to take the extra money that has recently been afforded to low income earners.
I think what you would see though is more spending on the part of low income earners given they have more disposable income. As a result... I think it goes without saying that aside from creating a more reasonable standard of living for those that struggle, a positive spinoff would be the creation of more jobs given the additional demand on items typically out of reach for lower wage earners and reserved for higher income earners.
If your last statement bodes true... I might just end up in the position to go buy myself a yacht and a smoking chair!
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Again dont make excuses for people. Everybody has the opportunity to make something of themselves. There are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. I grew up fairly poor and I worked minimum wage jobs. That was the best motivation I could have to get an education (that I paid for just like most people) and to get a great job. Not many of us "slid" into our comfy jobs. We all have childhood friends who chose to be lazy or even chose to limit their odds of success with arrest records, etc. It's not about good fortune or poor wages. It's about being smart and working hard.
I'm just trying to be fair.
I did it the right way as well- nothing was given to me. But with this said, at least I had 'opportunity' (crime free neighbourhood, student loans, supportive parents, good public schools, etc.).
Tell me if the 13 year old in South Side Chicago (or Watts District, LA) has the same chance as I did? I disagree with your assertion that there are plenty of poor rural or inner city kids that CHOSE to grow up, get educated, and stay out of trouble. For those that you do speak of... the percentage that scrapped their way out of those environments and 'made it' has to be incredibly low. For the others that simply stayed out of trouble... in reality, they accepted their fates as low level workers without the chance for anything great.
The 'rags to riches' stories become best selling books and movies they are that unlikely.
They dont deserve 15 an hour then. They can still better themselves rather than let society swallow them up because of where they're from. Community colleges, management track where they work whether its Wendys or what.
But think of the logistics for doing this:
Reality:
No parental support.
Full time work.
Minimum wage.
Bills eat up most of minimum wage salary.
Opportunity:
Community College costs money and takes time.
It's just not as easy as you are suggesting.