You can absolutely live on minimum wage as a single person who is mildly frugal.
Trying to raise a couple of kids as a single parent on minimum wage is a completely different story. If you're in that situation, you probably need to be doing whatever you can to not be only making minimum wage.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
You can absolutely live on minimum wage as a single person who is mildly frugal.
Trying to raise a couple of kids as a single parent on minimum wage is a completely different story. If you're in that situation, you probably need to be doing whatever you can to not be only making minimum wage.
As a single person, barely- assuming you have no health issues and depending on where you live. If you get a chance, check out Barbara Ehrenreich's book Nickel and Dimed. She stowed all her money and went out and worked minimum pay jobs on her own. It was no cake walk and she was very frugal and fortunate to stay healthy and she was barely able to make it through the experiment. I wouldn't want to do it and most people cannot.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So $7 an hour works out to 26,880.00 a year before taxes. If you are lucky to live in the north of your fine country, your gas and energy should work out unassited to approx 4k. Toss in the need for some kind of phone bill. (you can fix an amount) No cable will suffice. (live without the net too) We shall even use public transit at say another 1600 for the year. What do you think for the fine food products for the year......$2400 sound like a fair amount to not eat at any establishments for the year. Toss in some take out or fun with friends every once in a while. (again unsung, you can fix the amount to it). I know there is no need to go and have fun, but people tend to like to get together. I think that a fair minimum wage of about $12 an hour for a single person trying to get by would be a fair start. Oooops, I didn't even add in rent for a place to live. Hmmmmmm, I'd love to live in your world where being undercut is a good thing!
Your math is a bit off. A full time job paying $7/hr would gross $14,000, pre-tax. So in canada, take home would be about twenty five bucks a week
The problem with all of these welfare state discussions is that it comes down to a debate between helping your fellow man and natural selection. Someone has to fill these unskilled positions, or our society crumbles. And not everyone has the mental or physical capacity to do more than an unskilled job. So if some guy busts his ass washing dishes, never misses a day of work, and treats his employer and coworkers with respect...but has an IQ of 70 and isn't really capable of holding a better job....fuck him! Survival of the fittest, right?
You can absolutely live on minimum wage as a single person who is mildly frugal.
Trying to raise a couple of kids as a single parent on minimum wage is a completely different story. If you're in that situation, you probably need to be doing whatever you can to not be only making minimum wage.
So what happens to the people to try to make more and they can't?
That's the idea behind the living wage. This really isn't a political issue. The data is solid that when income inequality is as skewed as it is now the economy suffers. Low wage earners SPEND all of their income. That benefits everyone.
You don't like the term "wealth redistribution" but that is what a capitalist society REQUIRES in order to survive and prosper. It isn't a matter of big government and government intrusion. It's a requirement for our government to make this system work. It clearly is not working except for the top 1%.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
So $7 an hour works out to 26,880.00 a year before taxes. If you are lucky to live in the north of your fine country, your gas and energy should work out unassited to approx 4k. Toss in the need for some kind of phone bill. (you can fix an amount) No cable will suffice. (live without the net too) We shall even use public transit at say another 1600 for the year. What do you think for the fine food products for the year......$2400 sound like a fair amount to not eat at any establishments for the year. Toss in some take out or fun with friends every once in a while. (again unsung, you can fix the amount to it). I know there is no need to go and have fun, but people tend to like to get together. I think that a fair minimum wage of about $12 an hour for a single person trying to get by would be a fair start. Oooops, I didn't even add in rent for a place to live. Hmmmmmm, I'd love to live in your world where being undercut is a good thing!
Your math is a bit off. A full time job paying $7/hr would gross $14,000, pre-tax. So in canada, take home would be about twenty five bucks a week
The problem with all of these welfare state discussions is that it comes down to a debate between helping your fellow man and natural selection. Someone has to fill these unskilled positions, or our society crumbles. And not everyone has the mental or physical capacity to do more than an unskilled job. So if some guy busts his ass washing dishes, never misses a day of work, and treats his employer and coworkers with respect...but has an IQ of 70 and isn't really capable of holding a better job....fuck him! Survival of the fittest, right?
Correct you are sir. Don't know what happened with my calculation so early this morning. But you got the drift of how hard it would be to survive. Thank you.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
You can absolutely live on minimum wage as a single person who is mildly frugal.
Trying to raise a couple of kids as a single parent on minimum wage is a completely different story. If you're in that situation, you probably need to be doing whatever you can to not be only making minimum wage.
As was corrected for me with the $7 an hour post. How much is cheap rent in the states? If I can ask any of you people. Not a shit hole with crack heads on the corner. But a basement appartment? Or a one bedroom on the fringe of a city?
$14,000, pretax may not make that 700 to 1000 a month rent with one mouth to feed, public transit and frugal!
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
You can absolutely live on minimum wage as a single person who is mildly frugal.
Trying to raise a couple of kids as a single parent on minimum wage is a completely different story. If you're in that situation, you probably need to be doing whatever you can to not be only making minimum wage.
So what happens to the people to try to make more and they can't?
That's the idea behind the living wage. This really isn't a political issue. The data is solid that when income inequality is as skewed as it is now the economy suffers. Low wage earners SPEND all of their income. That benefits everyone.
You don't like the term "wealth redistribution" but that is what a capitalist society REQUIRES in order to survive and prosper. It isn't a matter of big government and government intrusion. It's a requirement for our government to make this system work. It clearly is not working except for the top 1%.
What do you mean they can't make more? Why can't they?
I don't see that it "clearly is not working except for the top 1%". Compare our poor to the poor of much of the rest of the world and they would trade places with our poor in a heartbeat. To me, that is far different from saying it isn't working.
To me, it just looks like envy that some people have a lot more money than others.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
You can absolutely live on minimum wage as a single person who is mildly frugal.
Trying to raise a couple of kids as a single parent on minimum wage is a completely different story. If you're in that situation, you probably need to be doing whatever you can to not be only making minimum wage.
So what happens to the people to try to make more and they can't?
That's the idea behind the living wage. This really isn't a political issue. The data is solid that when income inequality is as skewed as it is now the economy suffers. Low wage earners SPEND all of their income. That benefits everyone.
You don't like the term "wealth redistribution" but that is what a capitalist society REQUIRES in order to survive and prosper. It isn't a matter of big government and government intrusion. It's a requirement for our government to make this system work. It clearly is not working except for the top 1%.
What do you mean they can't make more? Why can't they?
I don't see that it "clearly is not working except for the top 1%". Compare our poor to the poor of much of the rest of the world and they would trade places with our poor in a heartbeat. To me, that is far different from saying it isn't working.
To me, it just looks like envy that some people have a lot more money than others.
Why can't they? Seriously? Can you realize that minimum wage jobs are all that are available in many places?
The envy argument is ridiculous. A lot of the reason there is such inequality is because of the minimum wage. Corporations like Wal-Mart make billions on the backs of their minimum wage workers.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
What do you mean they can't make more? Why can't they?
I don't see that it "clearly is not working except for the top 1%". Compare our poor to the poor of much of the rest of the world and they would trade places with our poor in a heartbeat. To me, that is far different from saying it isn't working.
To me, it just looks like envy that some people have a lot more money than others.
To me, it looks like you're satisfied that you don't live in the streets of Calcutta. The fact that your poor aren't as poor as other countries' poor does not mean that the inequities spawned from the current system are fair and that people should be complacent.
I guess you think people should take 2 minimum wage jobs to make more money? Yeah... fair.
This isn't about envy: this is about correcting major flaws within the societal structure to make the world a better place for everyone. People are shocked and outraged at some of the things we read about in the news- such as the 'KO Game', yet some can only see the problem without taking the time to think about the underlying causal factors for such behaviours. You seem to be one... so I'll tell you a major problem: poverty.
When flipping burgers is all that exists for a young man... drugs and crime are a natural path to take as an alternative. Look at Mexico for an extreme example: young men can sell chiclets on the sidewalks or work a taco stand... or they can make big amounts of cash for the cartels. Likewise, they can join the army or police to enter the war on drugs for pesos... or the cartels for better pay and weapons to fight in the same war.
Can you explain how a 16 year old young man finds his way out of low income housing in Chicago or Detroit and enjoys the lifestyle everyone on this forum likely enjoys?
Can you explain how a 16 year old young man finds his way out of low income housing in Chicago or Detroit and enjoys the lifestyle everyone on this forum likely enjoys?
well a good start would not being a father before you can financially afford it and if you do happen to be a father actually be there for your kids and not absentee. lack of family structure is a HUGE problem in the inner cities and it continues generation to generation. until that ends there will be recurring issues. the lack of parenting begets so many issues in those communities. if no one is there to put any pressure on education of course most teens aren't going to care about it ("the wisdom the old can't give away").
actual parenting and family structure is the 1st part of the equation to help those in low income housing in the inner cites. start with that then move on to the next step. there is no easy one step fix and frankly until those communities deal with the issues there is only so much the rest of us can do. I'm not against government assistance but like the original question of this thread, how much assistance is too much?
I know I don't have all the answers but I think the 1st step I mentioned above would be a gigantic start.
The 16 yr old in Chicago gets himself a good job the same way the poor kid in Idaho does or the kid from the suburbs----school and hard work.
We're supposed to feel bad for someone who takes the easy way out and chooses a street life? It's easy to be lazy and mope around your farmtown or your projects. Hard work usually gets rewarded and usually earns you a decent wage.
Why can't they? Seriously? Can you realize that minimum wage jobs are all that are available in many places?
The envy argument is ridiculous. A lot of the reason there is such inequality is because of the minimum wage. Corporations like Wal-Mart make billions on the backs of their minimum wage workers.
No. I can't realize the minimum wage jobs are all that are available in MANY places. Name one "place" where a minimum wage job is the ONLY job available.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Instead of discussing the topic and offering solutions other than raising the minimum wage, which doesn't work, you've chosen to discuss me. I'm not running for chair of the fed reserve.
I prefer to discuss the rampant abuse of the dollar and monetary policy that destroys wealth on the 99%.
so please expand on the market forces idea of increased US manufacturing etc.
How do we as a country get to that place and who has the ready cash to buy the items that have an increased cost due the domestic production?
isnt it true that increased efficiency eliminates some jobs and offshoring jobs to further increase shareholder value has done just as much to destroy wealth for those who have only the skill to wash dishes , as "rampant abuse" of the dollar?
a request and two questions , UNANSWERED, I guess I dont rank if I'm on topic. :roll:
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Why can't they? Seriously? Can you realize that minimum wage jobs are all that are available in many places?
The envy argument is ridiculous. A lot of the reason there is such inequality is because of the minimum wage. Corporations like Wal-Mart make billions on the backs of their minimum wage workers.
No. I can't realize the minimum wage jobs are all that are available in MANY places. Name one "place" where a minimum wage job is the ONLY job available.
Only job? As if there is a job opening for a brain surgeon my theory is disqualified? Or should that McDonald's worker "strive" to be a brain surgeon "pull himself up by his bootstraps" and just go to medical school simple as that?
come on man...in this job market there are people with Masters degrees trying to find jobs that barely require a high school diploma.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Can you explain how a 16 year old young man finds his way out of low income housing in Chicago or Detroit and enjoys the lifestyle everyone on this forum likely enjoys?
well a good start would not being a father before you can financially afford it and if you do happen to be a father actually be there for your kids and not absentee. lack of family structure is a HUGE problem in the inner cities and it continues generation to generation. until that ends there will be recurring issues. the lack of parenting begets so many issues in those communities. if no one is there to put any pressure on education of course most teens aren't going to care about it ("the wisdom the old can't give away").
actual parenting and family structure is the 1st part of the equation to help those in low income housing in the inner cites. start with that then move on to the next step. there is no easy one step fix and frankly until those communities deal with the issues there is only so much the rest of us can do. I'm not against government assistance but like the original question of this thread, how much assistance is too much?
I know I don't have all the answers but I think the 1st step I mentioned above would be a gigantic start.
You wouldn't necessarily be wrong with your assertion, but many young people in the inner cities are not consciously making the decision to conceive prior to conception. The cycle of poverty and broken families is one that feeds itself. Kids left to their own devices will make bad decisions. Kids raised in single parent homes where the one parent is busy working shit jobs to make ends meet will not get the guidance they require to stop from falling into the lifestyle they appear destined for.
So, I guess I am saying that your suggestion cannot be the precursor for social restructuring when much must be done to facilitate the ideal situation you speak of.
Capitalism unchecked, which is what this thread is ultimately about, has proven to be disastrous for any country willing to try it. Right now... I would say in the US, it is slightly 'held in check': the scale leans heavily towards ensuring the rich stay rich and the masses stay hungry for the scraps... counterbalanced with some mechanisms to ensure the complete and absolute exploitation of workers and the environment does not occur.
Don't ever kid yourself thinking goodwill or a conscience are enough to prevent employers from doing anything to push their profit margins.
I agree. Our government does not act very Christian.
As a Christian, I'd love to have more of my money in hand (lower taxes) so that I could do more for people who need help.
...
You would take all of the money you pay in taxes to help poor people? You wouldn't save any of it for yourself or your family... right?
...
Also, Here's what Jesus would do:
Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property (Luke 18:22-23).
...
You wouldn't go away grieving, would you?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I agree. Our government does not act very Christian.
As a Christian, I'd love to have more of my money in hand (lower taxes) so that I could do more for people who need help.
...
You would take all of the money you pay in taxes to help poor people? You wouldn't save any of it for yourself or your family... right?
...
Also, Here's what Jesus would do:
Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property (Luke 18:22-23).
...
You wouldn't go away grieving, would you?
Well... I'm glad I wasn't the only one who questioned this post.
Earlier in this thread I stated that I believe one solution would be to stop supporting fast food restaurants and Walmart which sell mostly worthless crap to consumers and instead put people to work doing something useful at a living wage. I still stand by that statement but the fact is, as long as people support these companies and staff them with other people instead of robots, those people should be paid a living wage. Below is a link to an article that includes these revealing statements:
The current federal minimum wage, $7.25, “is below where it was when Harry Truman was in office” when adjusted for inflation, the president said.
Indeed, wages have been lagging in the United States since the 1970s, around the same time the inequality gap began to widen. According to the Pew Research Center, the minimum wage, when adjusted for inflation, peaked in 1968 at $8.56 per hour in 2012 dollars.
Min wage is that for a reason, they have no skills, why do they deserve to be paid so much when all they can do is wash dishes?
Because they're providing a service to the billionaires who own those companies. And without them, those businesses will go under. Therefore, since Papa John himself isn't washing the pizza trays but he IS collecting all the money made by the company.. it's his responsibility to pay them enough to live on. Enough to eat and pay rent.
Without those people he gleefully spits on, there would BE no company. I think if you're running a business, it's your responsibility to pay your staff.
Because if he doesn't... WE DO.
And $15 per hour is not "so much." YOU try to live on $600 per week.
Min wage is that for a reason, they have no skills, why do they deserve to be paid so much when all they can do is wash dishes?
Because they're providing a service to the billionaires who own those companies. And without them, those businesses will go under. Therefore, since Papa John himself isn't washing the pizza trays but he IS collecting all the money made by the company.. it's his responsibility to pay them enough to live on. Enough to eat and pay rent.
Without those people he gleefully spits on, there would BE no company. I think if you're running a business, it's your responsibility to pay your staff.
Because if he doesn't... WE DO.
And $15 per hour is not "so much." YOU try to live on $600 per week.
Its his his responsibility to make sure that when his employees cash thier checks on Friday, it doesn't bounce. Its his responsibility to provide a safe work environment. Its his responsibility to make sure the crappy pizza I'm buying isn't laced with cyanide. Its NOT his responsibility to pay his employees $15/hr. And its definitely not the governments responsibility to tell Mr. Papa John what he has to pay his employees.
I have no clue what the cost of living is in California, but there's NO reason why somebody couldnt live on $600/wk. I did for a long time with a young child, mortgage, car payment, etc.
Why can't they? Seriously? Can you realize that minimum wage jobs are all that are available in many places?
The envy argument is ridiculous. A lot of the reason there is such inequality is because of the minimum wage. Corporations like Wal-Mart make billions on the backs of their minimum wage workers.
No. I can't realize the minimum wage jobs are all that are available in MANY places. Name one "place" where a minimum wage job is the ONLY job available.
Only job? As if there is a job opening for a brain surgeon my theory is disqualified? Or should that McDonald's worker "strive" to be a brain surgeon "pull himself up by his bootstraps" and just go to medical school simple as that?
come on man...in this job market there are people with Masters degrees trying to find jobs that barely require a high school diploma.
You said minimum wage jobs were the only ones available. Now you're changing your time. Who do those minimum wage workers report to?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I agree. Our government does not act very Christian.
As a Christian, I'd love to have more of my money in hand (lower taxes) so that I could do more for people who need help.
...
You would take all of the money you pay in taxes to help poor people? You wouldn't save any of it for yourself or your family... right?
...
Also, Here's what Jesus would do:
Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property (Luke 18:22-23).
...
You wouldn't go away grieving, would you?
I don't really believe in discussing a person's charitable giving.
It's true, I still have some possessions so I haven't followed the biblical example cited above. That being said, I'm confident that if my taxes were lowered, a higher percentage of it would go to help people who need it than currently does.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Its his his responsibility to make sure that when his employees cash thier checks on Friday, it doesn't bounce. Its his responsibility to provide a safe work environment. Its his responsibility to make sure the crappy pizza I'm buying isn't laced with cyanide. Its NOT his responsibility to pay his employees $15/hr. And its definitely not the governments responsibility to tell Mr. Papa John what he has to pay his employees.
I have no clue what the cost of living is in California, but there's NO reason why somebody couldnt live on $600/wk. I did for a long time with a young child, mortgage, car payment, etc.
Well... I suppose if one felt completely confident that people would concern themselves with the welfare of their workers to the point they assured a decent wage, benefits, and working conditions... your post would be valid.
But the Industrial Revolution and the current and growing exploitation of workers in various third world countries lend evidence to a side of human nature that belies such a premise.
How many millions or billions is enough for one man? People born into such fortune might say "more", but for the single mother in Chicago, catching the bus to get to her chamber maid job while leaving her 8 year old daughter at home to tend to her and her younger brother's needs... might argue differently. If a hotel could pay their workers $3 an hour... they would do it. If every organization could jump on the backs of their front line workers at $3 an hour... they would do it. Picture the good ol USA then. You think you have problems now?
I am grateful that this site allows for the entire spectrum of humanity to intersect and discuss various current topics, but at the same time, I am shocked at the mentality some have formulated for some things. In this instance, I cannot believe that some would argue against protecting the average citizen against corporate greed.
Min wage is that for a reason, they have no skills, why do they deserve to be paid so much when all they can do is wash dishes?
Because they're providing a service to the billionaires who own those companies. And without them, those businesses will go under. Therefore, since Papa John himself isn't washing the pizza trays but he IS collecting all the money made by the company.. it's his responsibility to pay them enough to live on. Enough to eat and pay rent.
Without those people he gleefully spits on, there would BE no company. I think if you're running a business, it's your responsibility to pay your staff.
Because if he doesn't... WE DO.
And $15 per hour is not "so much." YOU try to live on $600 per week.
Its his his responsibility to make sure that when his employees cash thier checks on Friday, it doesn't bounce. Its his responsibility to provide a safe work environment. Its his responsibility to make sure the crappy pizza I'm buying isn't laced with cyanide. Its NOT his responsibility to pay his employees $15/hr. And its definitely not the governments responsibility to tell Mr. Papa John what he has to pay his employees.
I have no clue what the cost of living is in California, but there's NO reason why somebody couldnt live on $600/wk. I did for a long time with a young child, mortgage, car payment, etc.
How about his responsibility of trying to be decent human being. Since he can't seem to be one on his own we apparently need to force him to be one.
You said minimum wage jobs were the only ones available. Now you're changing your time. Who do those minimum wage workers report to?
I didn't change my "tune". Surely you realize that if one does not qualify for a higher paying job they won't get that job right? I used the brain surgeon example. There might be hundreds of brain surgeon jobs available but that doesn't mean that someone can go from being a line cook at McDonald's to operating on your brain.
If jobs paying more than minimum wage were prevalent then we wouldn't have an issue right? The issue is that more and more people are fighting for the minimum wage jobs and that is causing a massive income inequality gap.
I've got data on my side for that claim. You are going off of right wing emotion.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
The Papa John's example above is a good one. This is exactly why unions formed in this country to begin with. You have the billionaire owner making money off the backs of the peons that are crucial to the function of the corporation making profit.
The argument that increasing the minimum wage means that the price of goods will increase is not a solid one. Competition among businesses dictates price. McDonald's and every other fast food giant could pay a much higher minimum wage without raising prices at all. They would just sacrifice some of their billions in profits toward the people that made them the billions.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Comments
Trying to raise a couple of kids as a single parent on minimum wage is a completely different story. If you're in that situation, you probably need to be doing whatever you can to not be only making minimum wage.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
As a single person, barely- assuming you have no health issues and depending on where you live. If you get a chance, check out Barbara Ehrenreich's book Nickel and Dimed. She stowed all her money and went out and worked minimum pay jobs on her own. It was no cake walk and she was very frugal and fortunate to stay healthy and she was barely able to make it through the experiment. I wouldn't want to do it and most people cannot.
The problem with all of these welfare state discussions is that it comes down to a debate between helping your fellow man and natural selection. Someone has to fill these unskilled positions, or our society crumbles. And not everyone has the mental or physical capacity to do more than an unskilled job. So if some guy busts his ass washing dishes, never misses a day of work, and treats his employer and coworkers with respect...but has an IQ of 70 and isn't really capable of holding a better job....fuck him! Survival of the fittest, right?
I agree. Our government does not act very Christian.
As a Christian, I'd love to have more of my money in hand (lower taxes) so that I could do more for people who need help.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
So what happens to the people to try to make more and they can't?
That's the idea behind the living wage. This really isn't a political issue. The data is solid that when income inequality is as skewed as it is now the economy suffers. Low wage earners SPEND all of their income. That benefits everyone.
You don't like the term "wealth redistribution" but that is what a capitalist society REQUIRES in order to survive and prosper. It isn't a matter of big government and government intrusion. It's a requirement for our government to make this system work. It clearly is not working except for the top 1%.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Correct you are sir. Don't know what happened with my calculation so early this morning. But you got the drift of how hard it would be to survive.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
As was corrected for me with the $7 an hour post. How much is cheap rent in the states? If I can ask any of you people. Not a shit hole with crack heads on the corner. But a basement appartment? Or a one bedroom on the fringe of a city?
$14,000, pretax may not make that 700 to 1000 a month rent with one mouth to feed, public transit and frugal!
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
yep...
but, far too many want the fed to make forced decisions for them.
What do you mean they can't make more? Why can't they?
I don't see that it "clearly is not working except for the top 1%". Compare our poor to the poor of much of the rest of the world and they would trade places with our poor in a heartbeat. To me, that is far different from saying it isn't working.
To me, it just looks like envy that some people have a lot more money than others.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Why can't they? Seriously? Can you realize that minimum wage jobs are all that are available in many places?
The envy argument is ridiculous. A lot of the reason there is such inequality is because of the minimum wage. Corporations like Wal-Mart make billions on the backs of their minimum wage workers.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
To me, it looks like you're satisfied that you don't live in the streets of Calcutta. The fact that your poor aren't as poor as other countries' poor does not mean that the inequities spawned from the current system are fair and that people should be complacent.
I guess you think people should take 2 minimum wage jobs to make more money? Yeah... fair.
This isn't about envy: this is about correcting major flaws within the societal structure to make the world a better place for everyone. People are shocked and outraged at some of the things we read about in the news- such as the 'KO Game', yet some can only see the problem without taking the time to think about the underlying causal factors for such behaviours. You seem to be one... so I'll tell you a major problem: poverty.
When flipping burgers is all that exists for a young man... drugs and crime are a natural path to take as an alternative. Look at Mexico for an extreme example: young men can sell chiclets on the sidewalks or work a taco stand... or they can make big amounts of cash for the cartels. Likewise, they can join the army or police to enter the war on drugs for pesos... or the cartels for better pay and weapons to fight in the same war.
Can you explain how a 16 year old young man finds his way out of low income housing in Chicago or Detroit and enjoys the lifestyle everyone on this forum likely enjoys?
well a good start would not being a father before you can financially afford it and if you do happen to be a father actually be there for your kids and not absentee. lack of family structure is a HUGE problem in the inner cities and it continues generation to generation. until that ends there will be recurring issues. the lack of parenting begets so many issues in those communities. if no one is there to put any pressure on education of course most teens aren't going to care about it ("the wisdom the old can't give away").
actual parenting and family structure is the 1st part of the equation to help those in low income housing in the inner cites. start with that then move on to the next step. there is no easy one step fix and frankly until those communities deal with the issues there is only so much the rest of us can do. I'm not against government assistance but like the original question of this thread, how much assistance is too much?
I know I don't have all the answers but I think the 1st step I mentioned above would be a gigantic start.
We're supposed to feel bad for someone who takes the easy way out and chooses a street life? It's easy to be lazy and mope around your farmtown or your projects. Hard work usually gets rewarded and usually earns you a decent wage.
No. I can't realize the minimum wage jobs are all that are available in MANY places. Name one "place" where a minimum wage job is the ONLY job available.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Only job? As if there is a job opening for a brain surgeon my theory is disqualified? Or should that McDonald's worker "strive" to be a brain surgeon "pull himself up by his bootstraps" and just go to medical school simple as that?
come on man...in this job market there are people with Masters degrees trying to find jobs that barely require a high school diploma.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
You wouldn't necessarily be wrong with your assertion, but many young people in the inner cities are not consciously making the decision to conceive prior to conception. The cycle of poverty and broken families is one that feeds itself. Kids left to their own devices will make bad decisions. Kids raised in single parent homes where the one parent is busy working shit jobs to make ends meet will not get the guidance they require to stop from falling into the lifestyle they appear destined for.
So, I guess I am saying that your suggestion cannot be the precursor for social restructuring when much must be done to facilitate the ideal situation you speak of.
Capitalism unchecked, which is what this thread is ultimately about, has proven to be disastrous for any country willing to try it. Right now... I would say in the US, it is slightly 'held in check': the scale leans heavily towards ensuring the rich stay rich and the masses stay hungry for the scraps... counterbalanced with some mechanisms to ensure the complete and absolute exploitation of workers and the environment does not occur.
Don't ever kid yourself thinking goodwill or a conscience are enough to prevent employers from doing anything to push their profit margins.
You would take all of the money you pay in taxes to help poor people? You wouldn't save any of it for yourself or your family... right?
...
Also, Here's what Jesus would do:
Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property (Luke 18:22-23).
...
You wouldn't go away grieving, would you?
Hail, Hail!!!
Well... I'm glad I wasn't the only one who questioned this post.
600 million website?
US popoulation 300 million?
World population 6 billion now?
...and people are upset about the minimum wage needing to be increased?
OK.
The current federal minimum wage, $7.25, “is below where it was when Harry Truman was in office” when adjusted for inflation, the president said.
Indeed, wages have been lagging in the United States since the 1970s, around the same time the inequality gap began to widen. According to the Pew Research Center, the minimum wage, when adjusted for inflation, peaked in 1968 at $8.56 per hour in 2012 dollars.
http://news.yahoo.com/largest-strike-ye ... 38898.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... ci1eZFoyEg
Because they're providing a service to the billionaires who own those companies. And without them, those businesses will go under. Therefore, since Papa John himself isn't washing the pizza trays but he IS collecting all the money made by the company.. it's his responsibility to pay them enough to live on. Enough to eat and pay rent.
Without those people he gleefully spits on, there would BE no company. I think if you're running a business, it's your responsibility to pay your staff.
Because if he doesn't... WE DO.
And $15 per hour is not "so much." YOU try to live on $600 per week.
I have no clue what the cost of living is in California, but there's NO reason why somebody couldnt live on $600/wk. I did for a long time with a young child, mortgage, car payment, etc.
You said minimum wage jobs were the only ones available. Now you're changing your time. Who do those minimum wage workers report to?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It's true, I still have some possessions so I haven't followed the biblical example cited above. That being said, I'm confident that if my taxes were lowered, a higher percentage of it would go to help people who need it than currently does.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Well... I suppose if one felt completely confident that people would concern themselves with the welfare of their workers to the point they assured a decent wage, benefits, and working conditions... your post would be valid.
But the Industrial Revolution and the current and growing exploitation of workers in various third world countries lend evidence to a side of human nature that belies such a premise.
How many millions or billions is enough for one man? People born into such fortune might say "more", but for the single mother in Chicago, catching the bus to get to her chamber maid job while leaving her 8 year old daughter at home to tend to her and her younger brother's needs... might argue differently. If a hotel could pay their workers $3 an hour... they would do it. If every organization could jump on the backs of their front line workers at $3 an hour... they would do it. Picture the good ol USA then. You think you have problems now?
I am grateful that this site allows for the entire spectrum of humanity to intersect and discuss various current topics, but at the same time, I am shocked at the mentality some have formulated for some things. In this instance, I cannot believe that some would argue against protecting the average citizen against corporate greed.
How about his responsibility of trying to be decent human being. Since he can't seem to be one on his own we apparently need to force him to be one.
I didn't change my "tune". Surely you realize that if one does not qualify for a higher paying job they won't get that job right? I used the brain surgeon example. There might be hundreds of brain surgeon jobs available but that doesn't mean that someone can go from being a line cook at McDonald's to operating on your brain.
If jobs paying more than minimum wage were prevalent then we wouldn't have an issue right? The issue is that more and more people are fighting for the minimum wage jobs and that is causing a massive income inequality gap.
I've got data on my side for that claim. You are going off of right wing emotion.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
The argument that increasing the minimum wage means that the price of goods will increase is not a solid one. Competition among businesses dictates price. McDonald's and every other fast food giant could pay a much higher minimum wage without raising prices at all. They would just sacrifice some of their billions in profits toward the people that made them the billions.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana