The mother claims to have seen her children levitate above the bed, and walk up walls and display all kinds of supernatural behaviour over the course of many months. She managed to make a video showing people around her house where she claims it all happened, but at no point did she think to video one of the numerous supernatural events she claims were constantly plaguing her.
the reports are hundreds of pages thick, police officers, social workers & a nurse all witnessed weirdo creepy shit behavior from these kids. some 'sensitive' gal of sorts believes 200 demons are present in the home. could it be the previous residence of said house been into demonic crap & were part of opening some gate from beyond?
i would not say this stuff is phonie. will this family be followed when they move? there are questions
i am always amazed by the folks who do not believe in supernatural or the battles between good & evil. im not saying heaven in the clouds or evil underground in fire... no i'm not.
i have, we all have have guardian angels. this is good. some would rather have a demon because they are fucking stupid as shit. i will say these events here in this story are most probably 99.9% fact unless something like a whole pile of people (some professionals in the community) are in on making up tall tales
Zak Bagans from Ghost Adventures bought the supposed haunted house in Gary, Indiana.
If there is something going on there he will find out.
~Carter~
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
no such thing.. you are either confused by a natural occurrence, bat shit crazy, or just looking for attention.. fact.
Do you love your significant other? Do they love you? Prove it.
Some things can't be proven. There is no way for you to prove to someone that you love them. But I'm betting that you feel it though. Who's to say what you are feeling is love?
Love cannot be proof posative, just like things that happen in the "paranormal" realm.
Post edited by the wolf on
Peace, Love.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
Do you love your significant other? Do they love you? Prove it.
Some things can't be proven. There is no way for you to prove to someone that you love them. But I'm betting that you feel it though. Who's to say what you are feeling is love?
Love cannot be proof posative, just like things that happen in the "paranormal" realm.
This is just completely meaningless, you could justify belief in absolutely any spurious nonsense you want with this argument. The fact that something is inherently unproveable is not a reason to accept it as true.
The skeptics are just skeptics. That's it. If you came to this thread to attempt to disprove anything? You haven't. Just as much as the believers can't prove anything exists. But it does require an open mind and being in the wrong place at the wrong time (or the right place, depends on what you choose to believe).
Of course the sceptics haven't disproved anything, you don't need to disprove something that has no substantial evidence to support it in the first place. Treating proof of existence and disproof of existence as equivalent to each other is a logical fallacy, the two concepts are not of equal merit.
Doesn't this thread belong somewhere else, like in AET? Trying to figure out how this has anything to do with politics or current events.
There are non stop stories in the news about this stuff, that makes it a "current event" in my book.
What news do you subscribe to? I have never seen a reputable news story about "ghosts".
What exactly would/do we consider a 'reputable' news source these days? CNN? FOX? MSNBC? USA TODAY? CBC?
I guess many would fall under 'reputable' news sources, as long as we consider half truths and slanted reporting 'honest'.
Just because we don't hear or see many news outlets reporting 'paranormal' (outside of the normal) type news stories, does not mean that they are not true or should not be further investigated.
It's often just that any news outside what we see as normal is just uncomfortable for us, so it;s easier to direct stories that follow the same, line,agenda, path as what we know to be normal. -
Having said that, let's take a look at CNN, a well-established, reputable source of news...Just a week ago had an entire segment on so called Demonic Possessions, and errrr the Priests who perform the exorcisms via Skype.
at the same time CNN ignored a campaign to report on the 'Bohemian Grove', which we know is real, and many high level politicians and people of 'influence' give speeches, then get drunk, run around naked and worship owls.
Weird, weird stuff. that we know is going on, but not being reported. (as much as it should be)
Doesn't this thread belong somewhere else, like in AET? Trying to figure out how this has anything to do with politics or current events.
There are non stop stories in the news about this stuff, that makes it a "current event" in my book.
What news do you subscribe to? I have never seen a reputable news story about "ghosts".
What exactly would/do we consider a 'reputable' news source these days? CNN? FOX? MSNBC? USA TODAY? CBC?
I guess many would fall under 'reputable' news sources, as long as we consider half truths and slanted reporting 'honest'.
Just because we don't hear or see many news outlets reporting 'paranormal' (outside of the normal) type news stories, does not mean that they are not true or should not be further investigated.
It's often just that any news outside what we see as normal is just uncomfortable for us, so it;s easier to direct stories that follow the same, line,agenda, path as what we know to be normal. -
CBC, Al Jazeera and BBC are just one of many reputable news organizations. Apart from the occasional puff piece about Bieber and such other nonsense (trying to entertain the lowest common denominator viewer), they tend to report news. Ghost stories are not news, they are stories. They belong in the entertainment category along with Bieber and Miley Cyrus. Unless you have some kind of proof or even evidence to say otherwise.
Aren't there already shows about the paranormal on A&E, TLC and other such entertainment channels? That should give you an idea about where this subject matter belongs.
Same goes for here at the AMT, this stuff should be on our entertainment channel....AET.
I was not specifically speaking about 'Ghost' stores, I did not look at those videos and made no comment about the article. As it just does not interest me as much, and I stick to what I can prove and know that exists. Hence me referencing 'The Bohemian Grove' etc.
CBC and Al Jazeera, I agree, reputable news sources. I use them.
I should add (As Chadwick mentioned) that perhaps the amount of detail in this 'Indiana Ghost story' case, does perhaps warrant further investigation, based on the decent amount of apparently credible witnesses(?). So who you gonna call?
Move the thread to the AET and off the M-Train, it's fine with me, as long as the 'Superbowl Chicken Wing Shortage' thread currently on the AET is moved to the M-Train, 100% news story falling under current events.
when you see ghosts & have visits from them banging around all throughout your life, you'll believe. paranormal happenings follow some people around like puppies would. this is a fact.
tap into it & grow as a 'sensitive' person. sometimes the energy out there drives a person nucking futs
some folks believe a ghost (like a grandparent) is actually not their grandparent but a demon fucking around. this is completely out of whack. this is the way a lot of (i believe) christian religious folks think. all spirits/ghosts are demonic in nature.....horse shit
speaking of weird as bullshit - the other night a massive shadow or black figure moved across my bedroom (blinds closed) window. i see shadows or black figures a lot. this fucker moved so fast it was ridiculous. i am 99.999% sure it was no car headlights making dark shapes in my place buzz around... nope not headlight
It's not entertainment when there's a debate going on. Move it to another board? Really? Because the skeptics don't like it in a debate forum and the topic is being debated???
I was not specifically speaking about 'Ghost' stores, I did not look at those videos and made no comment about the article. As it just does not interest me as much, and I stick to what I can prove and know that exists. Hence me referencing 'The Bohemian Grove' etc.
CBC and Al Jazeera, I agree, reputable news sources. I use them.
It's not entertainment when there's a debate going on. Move it to another board? Really? Because the skeptics don't like it in a debate forum and the topic is being debated???
Do whatever turns your crank.
I mean this with all sincerity, maybe you should turn the drama down a notch, not a very good debating tactic. Don't think it's going to draw many people to your side.
It's not entertainment when there's a debate going on. Move it to another board? Really? Because the skeptics don't like it in a debate forum and the topic is being debated???
Skeptics? Plural? Can you point out the multiple skeptics who have said this thread should be moved? Don't start pointing the finger at everyone just because you don't like what one person has to say.
And the reason ghost stories are not in the news is because they are all total bullshit, and any reputable, objective journalist knows that.
It's not entertainment when there's a debate going on. Move it to another board? Really? Because the skeptics don't like it in a debate forum and the topic is being debated???
Skeptics? Plural? Can you point out the multiple skeptics who have said this thread should be moved? Don't start pointing the finger at everyone just because you don't like what one person has to say.
And the reason ghost stories are not in the news is because they are all total bullshit, and any reputable, objective journalist knows that.
I'd like to quickly address this one point by Pingfah. Who said.
" And the reason ghost stories are not in the news is because they are all total bullshit " -
(Well this is actually more of a general post, not really just directed to Pingfah, just more directed toward the notion of dismissing something without knowing 'everything')
To which I must start off by saying,
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet
Being a person of Science, I can not come to the same conclusion as you. You (probably) have come to said conclusion based on the 'Normative' area of 'logic', using 'a standard model' which I always find quite interesting, interesting because it (often) takes 'Reasoning', and reasoning is ' consciously' applying 'logic' to verify (general) 'facts' (which in turn are often based on normative study)
Now the 'fact' that we do this consciously, in this case lets say being aware of a tangible 'reality' in turn brings to mind another point. You see, in physics, specifically quantum physics, lets have a look at the double slit test...If we 'observe' a particle it acts differently, as opposed to if we to were to not observe said particle. (by observe 'turn on the slit')
Which bring's the point to 'perception' which is (as we know) the interpretation of (lets say) an 'object', based on signals sent to our nervous system, and essentially creating 'a reality'. What is blue to you, could be red to me, even more interestingly if we alter the electromagnetic field at our temporal lobes...What happens? We see things! It's quite brilliant when one thinks about it.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet
What are Ghosts? Casper (The Friendly Ghost?) Slimer? (From GhostBusters), a lost loved one? God?
Perhaps (scientifically we should avoid using terms like 'God' and 'Ghosts' as it can be a distraction, because we are creatures of habit, and our habits are (often) based on (again) the 'Normative' model(s).
We are made of Atoms and energy (baryonic matter) it's all around us, buuuut, until recently we 'believed' (again believed) that was it. Then we enter the wonderful world of 'dark matter'...Spooky!
(When first announced was said to be) An invisible material surrounding The(a) galaxy and holding it together. Not sure if anyone remembers this but back in 2001 NASA launched the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe, map.gsfc.nasa.gov/
So what did we find?... Baryonic matter makes less than 5%! and that Dark Energy is a cosmological constant, making up 71.4% of the universe!
20 years ago, this would be nuts, the higgs 20 years ago was nuts, Darwins 'theory' of evolution in the late 1800s, nuts (at the time). Still people questioned the 'missing link', then in 2009 the discovery of Darwinius masillae which is said to connect human skeletal structure to early mammals. But before that we still believed (many of us anyway) Darwin, even without the 47 million year old fossil, we 'believed' because of our 'reason' and 'logic'. We saw certain evidence of evolution and came to a conclusion, yet we still did not have 'enough' proof to turn the 'theory' to fact, but our reason kept us in line with 'evolution'.
Now returning to Physics, (quantum physics) we see the amazing potential of the 'multi-verse', you, me, all of us exists in this time, and other times, at the same 'time', each being different potentials, potentials possibly accessed via our own 'Consciousness', Consciousness based on perception.
So if this model is real, and enough scientific evidence and research shows that this is true...and basing that on what the universe (and ourselves) are made up of, one can 'reason' that a ghost' could very well be an electromagnetic potential of what 'is', crossing a non linear path. (we are after all, stardust)
But if we remove the word 'ghost' from the above sentence and replace it was 'field of energy', ahhh things now start to make sense in our normative model.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet
Sometimes we get too caught up on names but we must remember, what is, is, what will be, will be.
What is a ghost? I don't know, do ghosts exists? I don't know, for me, personally, speaking from a scientific stand point, it would be ignorant to just dismiss ones 'belief' or 'perception' of a ghost as 'bs'.
In 'reality', Ghosts, (again I'm just going to refer to these forces as ghosts for the sake of this thread) could very well be real, and for me to ignore this possibility, I'd have to negate my understanding and knowledge of Physics and my own 'reason', which tells me that I just don't know, and because I don't have the answer, I wont let my own ego get in the way of what someone else believes and just dismiss it.
And again, if anything, these 'apparitions' could be real, maybe not for you, nor for me, but obviously for the many credible people who have said to of observed said 'entities?
(I've had to keep this post relatively simple and straight forward (well, for what it is), and I've bunched a few things together so hope my intention and thoughts have not been too jumbled up, it is 2 am. and I'm on a mobile, but will return to this post when I get the opportunity to go a bit deeper into it, if need be...I know I have left myself slightly vulnerable (on purpose) with such a post, leaving it open for debate, which means this thread could/should remain here! yay!
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Good lord, Idris! Not only a well-written post, but done at 2am AND on a mobile?
civil war battle fields are busy places with the after-life. dead relatives dead friends prisons hospitals mental institutions universities work places residences & even animals
all sorts of people for countless ages have had deeply impacted events happen to them brought to them from the after-life. it isn't like you see or hear something & that is it. there are messages & a mental telepathy type communication involved.
why would someone be exercising or whatever, get an overwhelming sensation to stop & turn around? wham, there she is standing there & been dead & buried at least 6 months.
countless numbers of people all over the planet are not making shit up
I like your philosophy, Idris, I Kant find anything to disagree with there, but the rose is a thorn in my side. A rose smells the same no matter what the name would be, but it does have a determined name. If you tell me you have a rose for me I would be mistaken to expect a carnation. Words like ghost, demon, angel, spirit, heaven, hell, and soul all carry pretty specific meanings, none of which correspond directly to "field of energy". Some people throw out terms that are far more specific in their superstition even than these. I believe in physics and a multiverse, maybe even and infiniverse, full of possibilities, but I don't really believe in the accepted definitions of any of the words I listed, as they are far too specific and superstitious.
Human perception is very easily fooled, we can draw doodles with our own hand that can confound our brain so that it presents a fake reality to our consciousness. I feel this can't be overstated.
Ghost Adventure's will go film the place, there will be a bump in the night and all the believers will take it as evidence, the skeptics will say it is a pitiful excuse for evidence and life will go on.
Comments
Riiiight.
i would not say this stuff is phonie. will this family be followed when they move? there are questions
i am always amazed by the folks who do not believe in supernatural or the battles between good & evil. im not saying heaven in the clouds or evil underground in fire... no i'm not.
i have, we all have have guardian angels. this is good. some would rather have a demon because they are fucking stupid as shit. i will say these events here in this story are most probably 99.9% fact unless something like a whole pile of people (some professionals in the community) are in on making up tall tales
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
video on the gary, indiana family
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
check this little video out
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Zak Bagans from Ghost Adventures bought the supposed haunted house in Gary, Indiana.
If there is something going on there he will find out.
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
Prove it.
Some things can't be proven. There is no way for you to prove to someone that you love them. But I'm betting that you feel it though.
Who's to say what you are feeling is love?
Love cannot be proof posative, just like things that happen in the "paranormal" realm.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
Burden of proof. Look it up.
I guess many would fall under 'reputable' news sources, as long as we consider half truths and slanted reporting 'honest'.
Just because we don't hear or see many news outlets reporting 'paranormal' (outside of the normal) type news stories, does not mean that they are not true or should not be further investigated.
It's often just that any news outside what we see as normal is just uncomfortable for us, so it;s easier to direct stories that follow the same, line,agenda, path as what we know to be normal.
-
Having said that, let's take a look at CNN, a well-established, reputable source of news...Just a week ago had an entire segment on so called Demonic Possessions, and errrr the Priests who perform the exorcisms via Skype.
at the same time CNN ignored a campaign to report on the 'Bohemian Grove', which we know is real, and many high level politicians and people of 'influence' give speeches, then get drunk, run around naked and worship owls.
Weird, weird stuff. that we know is going on, but not being reported. (as much as it should be)
community.pearljam.com/discussion/124645/bohemian-grove
Aren't there already shows about the paranormal on A&E, TLC and other such entertainment channels? That should give you an idea about where this subject matter belongs.
Same goes for here at the AMT, this stuff should be on our entertainment channel....AET.
CBC and Al Jazeera, I agree, reputable news sources. I use them.
Move the thread to the AET and off the M-Train, it's fine with me, as long as the 'Superbowl Chicken Wing Shortage' thread currently on the AET is moved to the M-Train, 100% news story falling under current events.
<:-P
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
tap into it & grow as a 'sensitive' person. sometimes the energy out there drives a person nucking futs
some folks believe a ghost (like a grandparent) is actually not their grandparent but a demon fucking around. this is completely out of whack. this is the way a lot of (i believe) christian religious folks think. all spirits/ghosts are demonic in nature.....horse shit
speaking of weird as bullshit -
the other night a massive shadow or black figure moved across my bedroom (blinds closed) window. i see shadows or black figures a lot. this fucker moved so fast it was ridiculous. i am 99.999% sure it was no car headlights making dark shapes in my place buzz around... nope not headlight
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I mean this with all sincerity, maybe you should turn the drama down a notch, not a very good debating tactic. Don't think it's going to draw many people to your side.
And the reason ghost stories are not in the news is because they are all total bullshit, and any reputable, objective journalist knows that.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Anyway,
I'd like to quickly address this one point by Pingfah. Who said.
" And the reason ghost stories are not in the news is because they are all total bullshit "
-
(Well this is actually more of a general post, not really just directed to Pingfah, just more directed toward the notion of dismissing something without knowing 'everything')
To which I must start off by saying,
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet
Being a person of Science, I can not come to the same conclusion as you. You (probably) have come to said conclusion based on the 'Normative' area of 'logic', using 'a standard model' which I always find quite interesting, interesting because it (often) takes 'Reasoning', and reasoning is ' consciously' applying 'logic' to verify (general) 'facts' (which in turn are often based on normative study)
Now the 'fact' that we do this consciously, in this case lets say being aware of a tangible 'reality' in turn brings to mind another point. You see, in physics, specifically quantum physics, lets have a look at the double slit test...If we 'observe' a particle it acts differently, as opposed to if we to were to not observe said particle. (by observe 'turn on the slit')
Which bring's the point to 'perception' which is (as we know) the interpretation of (lets say) an 'object', based on signals sent to our nervous system, and essentially creating 'a reality'. What is blue to you, could be red to me, even more interestingly if we alter the electromagnetic field at our temporal lobes...What happens? We see things! It's quite brilliant when one thinks about it.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet
What are Ghosts? Casper (The Friendly Ghost?) Slimer? (From GhostBusters), a lost loved one? God?
Perhaps (scientifically we should avoid using terms like 'God' and 'Ghosts' as it can be a distraction, because we are creatures of habit, and our habits are (often) based on (again) the 'Normative' model(s).
We are made of Atoms and energy (baryonic matter) it's all around us, buuuut, until recently we 'believed' (again believed) that was it. Then we enter the wonderful world of 'dark matter'...Spooky!
(When first announced was said to be) An invisible material surrounding The(a) galaxy and holding it together.
Not sure if anyone remembers this but back in 2001 NASA launched the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe, map.gsfc.nasa.gov/
So what did we find?... Baryonic matter makes less than 5%! and that Dark Energy is a cosmological constant, making up 71.4% of the universe!
20 years ago, this would be nuts, the higgs 20 years ago was nuts, Darwins 'theory' of evolution in the late 1800s, nuts (at the time). Still people questioned the 'missing link', then in 2009 the discovery of Darwinius masillae which is said to connect human skeletal structure to early mammals. But before that we still believed (many of us anyway) Darwin, even without the 47 million year old fossil, we 'believed' because of our 'reason' and 'logic'. We saw certain evidence of evolution and came to a conclusion, yet we still did not have 'enough' proof to turn the 'theory' to fact, but our reason kept us in line with 'evolution'.
Now returning to Physics, (quantum physics) we see the amazing potential of the 'multi-verse', you, me, all of us exists in this time, and other times, at the same 'time', each being different potentials, potentials possibly accessed via our own 'Consciousness', Consciousness based on perception.
So if this model is real, and enough scientific evidence and research shows that this is true...and basing that on what the
universe (and ourselves) are made up of, one can 'reason' that a ghost' could very well be an electromagnetic potential of what 'is', crossing a non linear path. (we are after all, stardust)
But if we remove the word 'ghost' from the above sentence and replace it was 'field of energy', ahhh things now start to make sense in our normative model.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet
Sometimes we get too caught up on names but we must remember, what is, is, what will be, will be.
What is a ghost? I don't know, do ghosts exists? I don't know, for me, personally, speaking from a scientific stand point, it would be ignorant to just dismiss ones 'belief' or 'perception' of a ghost as 'bs'.
In 'reality', Ghosts, (again I'm just going to refer to these forces as ghosts for the sake of this thread) could very well be real, and for me to ignore this possibility, I'd have to negate my understanding and knowledge of Physics and my own 'reason', which tells me that I just don't know, and because I don't have the answer, I wont let my own ego get in the way of what someone else believes and just dismiss it.
And again, if anything, these 'apparitions' could be real, maybe not for you, nor for me, but obviously for the many credible people who have said to of observed said 'entities?
(I've had to keep this post relatively simple and straight forward (well, for what it is), and I've bunched a few things together so hope my intention and thoughts have not been too jumbled up, it is 2 am. and I'm on a mobile, but will return to this post when I get the opportunity to go a bit deeper into it, if need be...I know I have left myself slightly vulnerable (on purpose) with such a post, leaving it open for debate, which means this thread could/should remain here! yay!
Kudos.
dead relatives
dead friends
prisons
hospitals
mental institutions
universities
work places
residences
& even animals
all sorts of people for countless ages have had deeply impacted events happen to them brought to them from the after-life.
it isn't like you see or hear something & that is it. there are messages & a mental telepathy type communication involved.
why would someone be exercising or whatever, get an overwhelming sensation to stop & turn around? wham, there she is standing there & been dead & buried at least 6 months.
countless numbers of people all over the planet are not making shit up
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Human perception is very easily fooled, we can draw doodles with our own hand that can confound our brain so that it presents a fake reality to our consciousness. I feel this can't be overstated.
Ghost Adventure's will go film the place, there will be a bump in the night and all the believers will take it as evidence, the skeptics will say it is a pitiful excuse for evidence and life will go on.
all i can say is for people to follow their instincts. mine are pretty finely tuned. good to go
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce