I don't care if your number is 1 or 500,000. If you get 4, 5, 6 shows, and I get 0, I have a major problem with that. Nice to see so many tickets on scalper sites, ebay, and craigslist.
That's why they should have put a limit, so if you get one show you are taken out of the lottery until all members are gone through.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I don't care if your number is 1 or 500,000. If you get 4, 5, 6 shows, and I get 0, I have a major problem with that. Nice to see so many tickets on scalper sites, ebay, and craigslist.
That also depends on the show or shows you are going for. If your only choice is a high demand show, and others choose lower demand shows, is that the other persons fault for not going for NYC or Seattle for example? Or that they can try for more shows they should be punished? Or people that specifically avoided high demand shows? Or avoided GA tickets since there were less of them?
And all the scalper sites do that for every show and every artist. A lot of them don't even have tickets yet, or are brokers with connections to Ticketmaster or the venue, or season ticket holders, or guessing they will have seats, etc.
PIT RES
PIT GA
BUF RES
BUF GA
NYC RES
NYC GA
NYC RES
NYC GA
All of which turned out to have high demand. I actually won Pittsburgh, my #1 choice, the only high demand show I went after for the first leg. I would love to have gone back to NYC, Philly, Worcester, but I avoided them since I figured my chances of winning those shows was much lower, especially if I could not use a #1 section on them.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
I don't care if your number is 1 or 500,000. If you get 4, 5, 6 shows, and I get 0, I have a major problem with that. Nice to see so many tickets on scalper sites, ebay, and craigslist.
That's why they should have put a limit, so if you get one show you are taken out of the lottery until all members are gone through.
Now that makes sense.
1998: Pitt
2000: Pitt
2003: Pitt, State College, Columbus,DC, Hershey
2004: Reading, Toledo, DC
2005: Pitt
2006: Cleve, Camden 1+2, DC, Pitt, Cinci
2008: Camden 1+2, DC
2009: Philly 3
2010: Columbus
2012: Philly
2013: Pitt, NYC 1+2
And no, statistically, and logically, the lottery is not more fair. The F5 system truly gave everyone an equal chance. Some took the initiative to learn the system and gain some advantage, but all could have. In the lottery, the odds are noticeably worse. You have more people (and scalpers) submitting for every show. People got shut out of shows because people put in "prayer" entries and won, even though they never would have spent the time F5ing for those tickets. Let's not even get in to people buying multiple 10C accounts to have more chances.
I don't think the lottery was a failure. According to that surveymonkey thing, 76% of people got their first choice. Considering the low amount of tickets available.. that seems like a moderate win. The lottery system wasn't perfect, but it seemed to do a better job of trying to spread those tickets to different people, rather than have the same people get them all. I think that's a bit of a win (especially considering that the 10c gets a lot less tickets than they used to in the f5 days) and the 10c had a decent amount of success spreading out the limited quantity of tickets. I suppose the same feat could be achieved by only allowing one pair per tour, but the lottery method did allow people to get into the less popular shows and thus see multiples if they were willing to travel.
I think your other comments are more future looking. Until this tour was announced, only Wrigley had the GA setup. I think most people thought it was a one time thing. Thus I don't think the number of scalpers/10c users getting multiple memberships was too significant this time. HOWEVER this would have a huge impact for the next tour. I'm not sure that PJ can pull off the GA pit twice. Now that its common knowledge you would have to expect a number of scalpers and 10c member's to sign up their spouse's and friends to increase their odds.
How many % were completely shut out?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I don't care if your number is 1 or 500,000. If you get 4, 5, 6 shows, and I get 0, I have a major problem with that. Nice to see so many tickets on scalper sites, ebay, and craigslist.
That's why they should have put a limit, so if you get one show you are taken out of the lottery until all members are gone through.
They did for the traditionally high demand shows, that is where 99% of the arguments come in. If there are rollover additional shows for popular cities, say Worcester, Oakland, and Seattle, I would imagine winners of the first night won't be allowed to re-enter.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
my first opportunity to purchase 10club tickets was for Randall's Island in 1996, and the next was MSG in '98. If my memory serves me correctly we were limited to choosing one show (two tickets) per tour, perhaps with a second choice but you only got one show. You had to mail back your order with a money order (yes times have changed) but it seems that limiting one show per member may help spread the wealth and give more people a chance to secure at least one pair of 10c tickets, and then although undesirable there's always the public sale. it worked in the olden days
I don't care if your number is 1 or 500,000. If you get 4, 5, 6 shows, and I get 0, I have a major problem with that. Nice to see so many tickets on scalper sites, ebay, and craigslist.
That's why they should have put a limit, so if you get one show you are taken out of the lottery until all members are gone through.
I don't care if your number is 1 or 500,000. If you get 4, 5, 6 shows, and I get 0, I have a major problem with that. Nice to see so many tickets on scalper sites, ebay, and craigslist.
That's why they should have put a limit, so if you get one show you are taken out of the lottery until all members are gone through.
Now that makes sense.
I still think the overall impact would be little. There would seem to be some issues with people splitting their first two choices between different cities winning on pref 2, against people in the same city that chose the same city for the first two pref's. I think that could be solved by doing one lottery per city.
The people who got tickets to 4 or 5 shows. They chose shows in the quieter markets as their high preferences. If they could only choose one show, it'd probably be used on a high demand show, which would probably free up little to no tickets for the high demand show. The only way this system allowed people to go to that many shows was if they were willing to travel to the low demand shows. Unless these poster are ok with going to Charlotte to see their show? because that would be the show with the extra tickets that your idea would direct you to.
my first opportunity to purchase 10club tickets was for Randall's Island in 1996, and the next was MSG in '98. If my memory serves me correctly we were limited to choosing one show (two tickets) per tour, perhaps with a second choice but you only got one show. You had to mail back your order with a money order (yes times have changed) but it seems that limiting one show per member may help spread the wealth and give more people a chance to secure at least one pair of 10c tickets, and then although undesirable there's always the public sale. it worked in the olden days
I think the preference system basically works the same way, but if there's a city that isn't selling tickets, it gives people a chance to buy the extras.
The 10c used to get access to way more tickets on the tours that used the index cards. I'd imagine if they did it now you'd have the exact same issues. There aren't enough tickets. There's no distribution method that's going to magically create enough tickets to deal with the demand.
I still think the overall impact would be little. There would seem to be some issues with people splitting their first two choices between different cities winning on pref 2, against people in the same city that chose the same city for the first two pref's. I think that could be solved by doing one lottery per city.
The people who got tickets to 4 or 5 shows. They chose shows in the quieter markets as their high preferences. If they could only choose one show, it'd probably be used on a high demand show, which would probably free up little to no tickets for the high demand show. The only way this system allowed people to go to that many shows was if they were willing to travel to the low demand shows. Unless these poster are ok with going to Charlotte to see their show? because that would be the show with the extra tickets that your idea would direct you to.
yeah.. we got res for that show, the only one I can go to. :? But I also know someone who got GA for it, so that sucks for me. But I'm glad for him.
my first opportunity to purchase 10club tickets was for Randall's Island in 1996, and the next was MSG in '98. If my memory serves me correctly we were limited to choosing one show (two tickets) per tour, perhaps with a second choice but you only got one show. You had to mail back your order with a money order (yes times have changed) but it seems that limiting one show per member may help spread the wealth and give more people a chance to secure at least one pair of 10c tickets, and then although undesirable there's always the public sale. it worked in the olden days
I think the preference system basically works the same way, but if there's a city that isn't selling tickets, it gives people a chance to buy the extras.
The 10c used to get access to way more tickets on the tours that used the index cards. I'd imagine if they did it now you'd have the exact same issues. There aren't enough tickets. There's no distribution method that's going to magically create enough tickets to deal with the demand.
Yes, it was after the Riot Act tour that the limits on fan club tickets really went into effect. Up to that tour, it seemed they could almost meet demand for any show.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
From a business perspective, it would be a poor business choice for the band to limit the availability of all tickets to members who have been in the club forever. Otherwise, there would be little incentive for new members to join the club. Granted, I know Pearl Jam fans don't like hearing about what will make the band money. But let's face it, being in a band this large is a business.
Secondly, seniority has never been a factor in the actual availability of tickets (at least as far back as I know, correct me if I am wrong). Yea, I know folks have said this on here before but it's a point worth repeating. The only real downside of this new system for those who have been in the fan club forever is that they won't be in the first 10 rows because of the GA pit. God forbid. Granted, it still sucks if you got shut out of tickets.
Full disclosure, I've been in the 10C for ten years, which is nothing compared to a lot of you. The lottery has treated me fairly well. I scored lower-level tickets for Wrigley and GA pit for Pittsburgh. For the fall tour, I put in GA and reserved for both Pittsburgh and Buffalo. Just got GA for Pittsburgh. Looks like I'll also be going to Vancouver in the pit with a buddy.
Personally, I'm just glad I don't have to hit refresh or block an hour out of my day and hide in my cubicle to fight for tickets. I actually took off work to buy Alpine Valley tickets. I didn't get them until 11 or so that night. I'd rather spend my PTO doing other things, like actually going to shows.
When you have a band that's been around for 20+ years and a still growing fan base, it's going to be tougher to get your hands on anything, especially good concert tickets. I think we're fairly lucky that Pearl Jam is still able to have that sort of draw.
I think every member that tried for tickets got at least one choice. Am I wrong? [/b][/i]
Everyone did not. But many people put in weird choices too I'm certain.
This for example, everyone knows this would be a risk of ending up with zero:
1 NY1 GA
2 NY2 GA
3 NY1 seats
4 NY2 seats
This is my first time ever successfully getting tickets. I have no idea how it works. The instructions were clear to me.
Well, it must be the weird choices.
That person should have done
1 NY1 GA
2 NY1 seats
3 NY2 GA
4 NY2 seats
It makes more sense to me. The other way really does seem that they might be selling the extras. It's hard to buy tickets in pairs. I'm not complaining.
I'm likely going to have an extra ticket because I'm going with another ten club member. I'm going to make sure the extra ticket goes to another ten club member or I'm taking the ticket with me to the show.
I don't think the lottery was a failure. According to that surveymonkey thing, 76% of people got their first choice. Considering the low amount of tickets available.. that seems like a moderate win. The lottery system wasn't perfect, but it seemed to do a better job of trying to spread those tickets to different people, rather than have the same people get them all. I think that's a bit of a win (especially considering that the 10c gets a lot less tickets than they used to in the f5 days) and the 10c had a decent amount of success spreading out the limited quantity of tickets. I suppose the same feat could be achieved by only allowing one pair per tour, but the lottery method did allow people to get into the less popular shows and thus see multiples if they were willing to travel.
This Lottery decider is more than likely a programmed machine. I agreed with you Zod, but I've been hearing bad reviews about the new Superman movie. 76% is a passing grade. Where did the monkey get that info?
so how did senority help under the old system where everyone was hitting F5 and cursing at THAT system as it crashed? Under either system, senority was used for seat assignment. You could have had 10C number 1 and could have been shut out under the old system if you had a slow system or you could not sit at your computer the instant that show went on sale? I do not see how senority helped you back then?
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
slide in sideways, BBQ sandwich in one hand, cold beer in the other,
body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "Woo Hoo what a
ride"!
Unknown
I keep seeing these "wah-wah" posts about how someone didn't get tickets, or how someone only got one show, or how MYM sucks. It's like get the f*ck over it already! Enough annoying complaining (about everything!) posts. :roll:
If you hate something don't you do it too.
Complaining about complaining is just as bad.
Touche. I just get frustrated seeing people being so negative at such an exciting time. Major buzzkill.
I never had problems buying tix to multiple shows. This will kill the traveling aspect of the fan base that has supported the band for so long.
Bring back F5.
London last night was packed, so the lottery certainly didn't kill the traveling fan base there ..... and I anticipate most stops on the upcoming tour will also sell out. Looking around the crowd last night, the majority of fans seemed to be in their 30's and older, not teenagers that may have to scrounge together money and/or means of transportation to attend a show. If the fans want to see a show or multiple shows, they'll find ways to secure tickets and be there. I don't think the newer lottery system will have a negative impact on the traveling fan base. Enjoy the new music.
So for everyone with the "long time loyal 10 club" mentality.. What about people that were let's say 2 in 1994 so they couldn't join the 10c but now that they are older they have discovered the awesome that is Pearl Jam and join the 10c. Should they not have the same access to tickets just because they were 2 when the "loyal" people joined?
I don't think the lottery was a failure. According to that surveymonkey thing, 76% of people got their first choice. Considering the low amount of tickets available.. that seems like a moderate win. The lottery system wasn't perfect, but it seemed to do a better job of trying to spread those tickets to different people, rather than have the same people get them all. I think that's a bit of a win (especially considering that the 10c gets a lot less tickets than they used to in the f5 days) and the 10c had a decent amount of success spreading out the limited quantity of tickets. I suppose the same feat could be achieved by only allowing one pair per tour, but the lottery method did allow people to get into the less popular shows and thus see multiples if they were willing to travel.
This Lottery decider is more than likely a programmed machine. I agreed with you Zod, but I've been hearing bad reviews about the new Superman movie. 76% is a passing grade. Where did the monkey get that info?
I liked Man of Steel
As for 76%. Not a bad number, not a great number. I would have to imagine the 10c didn't have enough tickets to very popular shows.. so I'm doubting 100% was ever feasible. I'd Imagine you might a few percent bump if you consolidate the lottery draw to one draw per show (and eliminating the issue with splitting your first two choices amongst two different shows). Not a whole lot you do when you don't have enough tickets to go around. The ticketmaster battle was lost in the 90s and now we live in the aftermath (where there aren't too many big venues that haven't signed exclusivity agreements with ticketing agencies). They seem to dictate how many tix a fan club gets (or you can't do your show in their venue)
I am a winner of the lottery, but I won because of dumb luck and not keeping my 10c membership alive since 1995.
Next time I might not be so lucky, get rid of it.
Hear, hear. I'm the same about not keeping my membership alive since 98. I would just like some of that luck once in a while. I'm glad I get to go see them (that they're coming to NC again finally), don't get me wrong, and more power to the people who can travel all around and see multiple shows (I can't). I also agree with other posts about this foolish "loyalty" business. I know I've been a loyal fan since 1994, but lottery is luck of the draw, and a number in a fan club shouldn't be an indicator of loyalty.
I am baffled some almost everything people are saying. First off senority only helped you get good seats AFTER you got 10c tickets, everyone had the same chance to buy tickets, senority never had anything to do with it. Second, there never was a problem with the old "F5" system until 10c put the PJ20 show onsale the same day, within hours, of two toronto shows hamilton and a couple of other show in the US. The system crashed because of the sheer amount of people trying to get PJ20 tickets. I have never had problems getting tickets any other time in the past. Even back in '05 I was able to log on and get tickets for 2 Toronto shows, Hamilton, Kitchener and London without any problem at all. In fact, my friend just got lottery tickets for Buffalo, Charlottesville, Charlotte, Oklahoma City,Pheonix, Calgary and Vancouver.
So I think getting tickets through 10c is normally easy, except for those certain areas, New York, Boston, Philly and I am guessing L.A. Maybe they could use a lootery system for certain shows or just stagger the dates they start selling shows so people getting tickets for some small market don't get screwed because off all of the people trying to get tickets for those large markets all at the same time.
It annoys me when people think seniority should get preference. Everyone who joins the tenclub is a fan whether they been a fan since 91 or a fan since last week. Everyone deserves a chance. Also the tenclub is a bit naff, the only thing that is worth joining it for these days is the pre-sales. I hate this lottery as why join the club if thats not guaranteed? But at the same time if there is a lottery, it must be an even playing field.
It annoys me when people think seniority should get preference. Everyone who joins the tenclub is a fan whether they been a fan since 91 or a fan since last week. Everyone deserves a chance. Also the tenclub is a bit naff, the only thing that is worth joining it for these days is the pre-sales. I hate this lottery as why join the club if thats not guaranteed? But at the same time if there is a lottery, it must be an even playing field.
The band is a bunch of liberals, who generally support labor unions (like it's still the 1950s), where seniority (not ability, worth ethic or anything that should matter) is king. Since most people on this board fall right in line with the band's politics, they should be all for seniority.
It annoys me when people think seniority should get preference. Everyone who joins the tenclub is a fan whether they been a fan since 91 or a fan since last week. Everyone deserves a chance. Also the tenclub is a bit naff, the only thing that is worth joining it for these days is the pre-sales. I hate this lottery as why join the club if thats not guaranteed? But at the same time if there is a lottery, it must be an even playing field.
The band is a bunch of liberals, who generally support labor unions (like it's still the 1950s), where seniority (not ability, worth ethic or anything that should matter) is king. Since most people on this board fall right in line with the band's politics, they should be all for seniority.
besides your obviously deliberate misunderstanding of everything a union stands for....lottery means equal chances for everyone. which falls right into the world view this band and their liberal, borderline-communist fans like.
besides your obviously deliberate misunderstanding of everything a union stands for....lottery means equal chances for everyone. which falls right into the world view this band and their liberal, borderline-communist fans like.
you wasting your time..just lets party ,our band is back to our continent..woot
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
besides your obviously deliberate misunderstanding of everything a union stands for....lottery means equal chances for everyone. which falls right into the world view this band and their liberal, borderline-communist fans like.
you wasting your time..just lets party ,our band is back to our continent..woot
yeah, the only reason I'm even on here is I'm useless for anything else until this lotto is done...
besides your obviously deliberate misunderstanding of everything a union stands for....lottery means equal chances for everyone. which falls right into the world view this band and their liberal, borderline-communist fans like.
I know what unions stand for, I've seen them destroy people's work ethics, and destroy profitable businesses. A union is mini version of the Democratic Party. Those in charge pretend to be helping, but are only in it for personal gain. The weak and uneducated join for protection. Unions make it nearly impossible to fire a poor performer.
There might have been a time and place for unions, but that was long ago.
I know what unions stand for, I've seen them destroy people's work ethics, and destroy profitable businesses. A union is mini version of the Democratic Party. Those in charge pretend to be helping, but are only in it for personal gain. The weak and uneducated join for protection. Unions make it nearly impossible to fire a poor performer.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Comments
All of which turned out to have high demand. I actually won Pittsburgh, my #1 choice, the only high demand show I went after for the first leg. I would love to have gone back to NYC, Philly, Worcester, but I avoided them since I figured my chances of winning those shows was much lower, especially if I could not use a #1 section on them.
Now that makes sense.
2000: Pitt
2003: Pitt, State College, Columbus,DC, Hershey
2004: Reading, Toledo, DC
2005: Pitt
2006: Cleve, Camden 1+2, DC, Pitt, Cinci
2008: Camden 1+2, DC
2009: Philly 3
2010: Columbus
2012: Philly
2013: Pitt, NYC 1+2
How many % were completely shut out?
They did for the traditionally high demand shows, that is where 99% of the arguments come in. If there are rollover additional shows for popular cities, say Worcester, Oakland, and Seattle, I would imagine winners of the first night won't be allowed to re-enter.
How I choose to feel is how I am
I still think the overall impact would be little. There would seem to be some issues with people splitting their first two choices between different cities winning on pref 2, against people in the same city that chose the same city for the first two pref's. I think that could be solved by doing one lottery per city.
The people who got tickets to 4 or 5 shows. They chose shows in the quieter markets as their high preferences. If they could only choose one show, it'd probably be used on a high demand show, which would probably free up little to no tickets for the high demand show. The only way this system allowed people to go to that many shows was if they were willing to travel to the low demand shows. Unless these poster are ok with going to Charlotte to see their show? because that would be the show with the extra tickets that your idea would direct you to.
I think the preference system basically works the same way, but if there's a city that isn't selling tickets, it gives people a chance to buy the extras.
The 10c used to get access to way more tickets on the tours that used the index cards. I'd imagine if they did it now you'd have the exact same issues. There aren't enough tickets. There's no distribution method that's going to magically create enough tickets to deal with the demand.
Yes, it was after the Riot Act tour that the limits on fan club tickets really went into effect. Up to that tour, it seemed they could almost meet demand for any show.
Secondly, seniority has never been a factor in the actual availability of tickets (at least as far back as I know, correct me if I am wrong). Yea, I know folks have said this on here before but it's a point worth repeating. The only real downside of this new system for those who have been in the fan club forever is that they won't be in the first 10 rows because of the GA pit. God forbid. Granted, it still sucks if you got shut out of tickets.
Full disclosure, I've been in the 10C for ten years, which is nothing compared to a lot of you. The lottery has treated me fairly well. I scored lower-level tickets for Wrigley and GA pit for Pittsburgh. For the fall tour, I put in GA and reserved for both Pittsburgh and Buffalo. Just got GA for Pittsburgh. Looks like I'll also be going to Vancouver in the pit with a buddy.
Personally, I'm just glad I don't have to hit refresh or block an hour out of my day and hide in my cubicle to fight for tickets. I actually took off work to buy Alpine Valley tickets. I didn't get them until 11 or so that night. I'd rather spend my PTO doing other things, like actually going to shows.
When you have a band that's been around for 20+ years and a still growing fan base, it's going to be tougher to get your hands on anything, especially good concert tickets. I think we're fairly lucky that Pearl Jam is still able to have that sort of draw.
I wish the best to all.
This is my first time ever successfully getting tickets. I have no idea how it works. The instructions were clear to me.
Well, it must be the weird choices.
That person should have done
1 NY1 GA
2 NY1 seats
3 NY2 GA
4 NY2 seats
It makes more sense to me. The other way really does seem that they might be selling the extras. It's hard to buy tickets in pairs. I'm not complaining.
I'm likely going to have an extra ticket because I'm going with another ten club member. I'm going to make sure the extra ticket goes to another ten club member or I'm taking the ticket with me to the show.
This Lottery decider is more than likely a programmed machine. I agreed with you Zod, but I've been hearing bad reviews about the new Superman movie.
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
slide in sideways, BBQ sandwich in one hand, cold beer in the other,
body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "Woo Hoo what a
ride"!
Unknown
Touche. I just get frustrated seeing people being so negative at such an exciting time. Major buzzkill.
I am a winner of the lottery, but I won because of dumb luck and not keeping my 10c membership alive since 1995.
Next time I might not be so lucky, get rid of it.
London last night was packed, so the lottery certainly didn't kill the traveling fan base there ..... and I anticipate most stops on the upcoming tour will also sell out. Looking around the crowd last night, the majority of fans seemed to be in their 30's and older, not teenagers that may have to scrounge together money and/or means of transportation to attend a show. If the fans want to see a show or multiple shows, they'll find ways to secure tickets and be there. I don't think the newer lottery system will have a negative impact on the traveling fan base. Enjoy the new music.
I liked Man of Steel
As for 76%. Not a bad number, not a great number. I would have to imagine the 10c didn't have enough tickets to very popular shows.. so I'm doubting 100% was ever feasible. I'd Imagine you might a few percent bump if you consolidate the lottery draw to one draw per show (and eliminating the issue with splitting your first two choices amongst two different shows). Not a whole lot you do when you don't have enough tickets to go around. The ticketmaster battle was lost in the 90s and now we live in the aftermath (where there aren't too many big venues that haven't signed exclusivity agreements with ticketing agencies). They seem to dictate how many tix a fan club gets (or you can't do your show in their venue)
So I think getting tickets through 10c is normally easy, except for those certain areas, New York, Boston, Philly and I am guessing L.A. Maybe they could use a lootery system for certain shows or just stagger the dates they start selling shows so people getting tickets for some small market don't get screwed because off all of the people trying to get tickets for those large markets all at the same time.
The band is a bunch of liberals, who generally support labor unions (like it's still the 1950s), where seniority (not ability, worth ethic or anything that should matter) is king. Since most people on this board fall right in line with the band's politics, they should be all for seniority.
besides your obviously deliberate misunderstanding of everything a union stands for....lottery means equal chances for everyone. which falls right into the world view this band and their liberal, borderline-communist fans like.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
yeah, the only reason I'm even on here is I'm useless for anything else until this lotto is done...
I know what unions stand for, I've seen them destroy people's work ethics, and destroy profitable businesses. A union is mini version of the Democratic Party. Those in charge pretend to be helping, but are only in it for personal gain. The weak and uneducated join for protection. Unions make it nearly impossible to fire a poor performer.
There might have been a time and place for unions, but that was long ago.
Well, you are the king of wasting people's times, we should trust your opinion.