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Lottery... So much for appeasing the loyal fanbase.

blackmagicmarkerKblackmagicmarkerK Posts: 23
edited December 2013 in The Porch
196xxx - Under the supposed "broken" 10C ticketing system, I rarely had problems getting tickets. Frustrating at times, but perserverence almost always paid off in one form or another.

The Lottery system unfairly levels the playing field between a fan that just paid for their inital 10c fee and longtime loyal fans that have poured literally tens of thousands of dollars into this band. Many, taking cross country trips for one-off shows.

Arguing the "fairness" of the Lottery may seem like whining but I wonder, how well was this truely thought out? When making these changes did the 10C fully understand the negative aspect of "leveling the playing field".

And, there's no way to make it up. It's done.

MyM :D
Lightning Bolt :?:
Lottery :evil:
Sitting in the 400's :fp:
Post edited by Unknown User on
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    ctsufer31ctsufer31 Boston, MA Posts: 33
    Member #111***

    Agreed.

    Earlier this year, I contacted someone at 10c about the new lottery system. She assured me that the new system was better. She explained that the old system of getting 10c tickets was being compromised but ticket brokers using computers to purchase as many tickets as possible. A day the lottery, I have very serious doubts about this new system. In the old system (mail and internet), I always received tickets for every tour. With the new lottery system, I received nothing (Worcester and Hartford). What I don't understand was why did 10c seniority play a factor in this. The longer you been with the club, your chances of getting a pair of tickets should have increased.

    The lottery system fails long time 10c members and benefits new club members. It time for 10c members to voice their issues with the 10c ticketing lottery with 10c personal.
    Pearl Jam
    Hartford 10-02-1996, Hartford 09-13-1998, Mansfield 08-29-2000, Albany 04-29-2003, Mansfield 07-02-2003, NYC 07-09-2003, Boston 09-28-2004, Toronto 09-19-2005, Albany 05-12-2006, Boston 05-25-2006, E. Rutherford 06-03-2006, Hartford 06-27-2008, Mansfield 06-28-2008, Mansfield 06-30-2008, Boston 05-17-2010, Toronto 09-11-2011, Worcester 10-15-2013, Worcester 10-16-2013, Quebec City 05-05-2016
    Eddie Vedder
    Boston 08-01-2008, Providence 06-15-2011, Boston 06-16-2011
    Tres Mts.
    Boston 03-27-2011
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,049
    ctsufer31 wrote:
    The lottery system fails long time 10c members and benefits new club members.

    Why? It benefit long time 10c members, as usual you get better seats.

    Other than that, everyone have a equal chance to get tickets. As it, IMO, should be.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    ctsufer31ctsufer31 Boston, MA Posts: 33
    ctsufer31 wrote:
    The lottery system fails long time 10c members and benefits new club members.

    Why? It benefit long time 10c members, as usual you get better seats.

    Other than that, everyone have a equal chance to get tickets. As it, IMO, should be.

    Really?

    So to even the playing field and allow new members a chance to get tickets while members who have been supporting 10c for decades get shut out?

    Maybe you should see it my my point of view.
    Pearl Jam
    Hartford 10-02-1996, Hartford 09-13-1998, Mansfield 08-29-2000, Albany 04-29-2003, Mansfield 07-02-2003, NYC 07-09-2003, Boston 09-28-2004, Toronto 09-19-2005, Albany 05-12-2006, Boston 05-25-2006, E. Rutherford 06-03-2006, Hartford 06-27-2008, Mansfield 06-28-2008, Mansfield 06-30-2008, Boston 05-17-2010, Toronto 09-11-2011, Worcester 10-15-2013, Worcester 10-16-2013, Quebec City 05-05-2016
    Eddie Vedder
    Boston 08-01-2008, Providence 06-15-2011, Boston 06-16-2011
    Tres Mts.
    Boston 03-27-2011
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    foodboyfoodboy Posts: 988
    also i know for a fact that scalpers are joining in with many names and since they now can get ga pit tickets all the more lucrative for them. so if they at least did something about the latest members it might help. but i agree as a long time supporter of this band since first buying their cd in 92 and seeing them for the first time in 93' i know there is no perfect way but i really don't like the lottery at all. i never had problems with the shows i wanted to go to in the past. i usually made it to at least 3 or 4 but now that is almost impossible. but i do want to say thanks for all the great times in the past.
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    know1know1 Posts: 6,763
    196xxx - Under the supposed "broken" 10C ticketing system, I rarely had problems getting tickets. Frustrating at times, but perserverence almost always paid off in one form or another.

    The Lottery system unfairly levels the playing field between a fan that just paid for their inital 10c fee and longtime loyal fans that have poured literally tens of thousands of dollars into this band. Many, taking cross country trips for one-off shows.

    Arguing the "fairness" of the Lottery may seem like whining but I wonder, how well was this truely thought out? When making these changes did the 10C fully understand the negative aspect of "leveling the playing field".

    And, there's no way to make it up. It's done.

    MyM :D
    Lightning Bolt :?:
    Lottery :evil:
    Sitting in the 400's :fp:

    Not true at all. Seniority had NOTHING to do with actually getting tickets even with the old system. It only came into play after you bought the tickets.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
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    Indifference71Indifference71 Chicago Posts: 14,747
    ctsufer31 wrote:

    Really?

    So to even the playing field and allow new members a chance to get tickets while members who have been supporting 10c for decades get shut out?

    Maybe you should see it my my point of view.


    You were never guaranteed tickets as a long time fan club member. So pretty much what you are saying is that you deserve tickets more than someone who has recently joined 10c?
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    SoybeansSoybeans Posts: 245
    I never had problems buying tix to multiple shows. This will kill the traveling aspect of the fan base that has supported the band for so long.

    Bring back F5.
    90 shows and counting...some of my favs: Randall's Island night 2, Milwaukee '95 night 2, Hawaii '06, St Johns '05, PJ20!
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    frisbiecfrisbiec Seattle, WA Posts: 112
    ctsufer31 wrote:
    The lottery system fails long time 10c members and benefits new club members.

    Why? It benefit long time 10c members, as usual you get better seats.

    Other than that, everyone have a equal chance to get tickets. As it, IMO, should be.
    The problem is everyone does not have equal access to tickets. Your probability of scoring tickets is increased by putting in for more shows. Putting in for more shows also = the possibility of winning more shows. Unfortunately, many cannot afford more than 1-3 shows. If you were responsible and only put in for the number of shows you could budget, you had a higher risk of getting shut out. A lottery system would be fair if there were 2 rounds. One round based solely on priority and maybe seniority (although as a senior member myself, I don't necessarily think I deserve preferential treatment in this regard) and a second round that is an all out lottery.
    Remove yourself from comfort . . . all progress involves risk
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    shortstackshortstack Posts: 2,339
    ctsufer31 wrote:
    Earlier this year, I contacted someone at 10c about the new lottery system. She assured me that the new system was better. She explained that the old system of getting 10c tickets was being compromised by ticket brokers using computers to purchase as many tickets as possible.

    oh jeez, now i thought it was the band's decision because they were sick of seeing the same faces. :roll:
    did you see me? i saw you.
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    thefin190thefin190 Posts: 918
    I am in the 400's and missed out on either Seattle tickets, fucking sucks.

    Just wondering, are ticket scalpers allowed to join the fan club and re-sell tickets? Obvious answer is no, but how do they get away with it??? I used to re-sell other tickets (not Pearl Jam) when I was in college for extra money because I was poor, but I was way too nervous to ever sell a Pearl Jam ticket in fear of being kicked out the fan club. I haven't done any ticket flipping in years. How are scalpers able to do this?
    Member Number: 437xxx

    Pearl Jam:
    Key Arena - Seattle, WA - Sep 21, 2009
    Pacific Coliseum - Vancouver, BC - Sep 25, 2011
    Key Arena - Seattle, WA - Dec 6, 2013

    Eddie Vedder Solo:
    Benaroya Hall - Seattle, WA - Jul 15, 2011
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,612
    I dont get the perception that acquiring tickets was ever based on seniority.

    I think the real issue is the allure of creating many garbage number accounts to get multiple entries for ga tickets
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    MG79478MG79478 Posts: 1,628
    frisbiec wrote:
    ctsufer31 wrote:
    The lottery system fails long time 10c members and benefits new club members.

    Why? It benefit long time 10c members, as usual you get better seats.

    Other than that, everyone have a equal chance to get tickets. As it, IMO, should be.
    The problem is everyone does not have equal access to tickets. Your probability of scoring tickets is increased by putting in for more shows. Putting in for more shows also = the possibility of winning more shows. Unfortunately, many cannot afford more than 1-3 shows. If you were responsible and only put in for the number of shows you could budget, you had a higher risk of getting shut out. A lottery system would be fair if there were 2 rounds. One round based solely on priority and maybe seniority (although as a senior member myself, I don't necessarily think I deserve preferential treatment in this regard) and a second round that is an all out lottery.

    The ironic thing is that everyone had equal access to the F5 system, some put more in to it than others.
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    thebends9thebends9 Posts: 513
    Soybeans wrote:
    I never had problems buying tix to multiple shows. This will kill the traveling aspect of the fan base that has supported the band for so long.

    Bring back F5.
    '98 - MSG 
    '00 - Jones Beach (x2)
    '03 - Nassau Coliseum/Tweeter Center/ MSG (x2)
    '04 - Reading, PA
    '05 - Wachovia Center
    '06 - Irving Plaza; Continental Airlines Arena (x2)
    '08 - MSG (x2); Beacon Theater
    '09 - Philly Spectrum (x2)
    '10 - XL Center; Prudential Center; MSG (x2)
    '11 - Alpine Valley (x2)
    '12 - Made In America
    '13 - Wrigley Field; DCU Center; Barclay Center (x2); Wells Fargo Center; XL Center
    '15 - Ed Sullivan Theater
    '16 - MSG (x2)
    '17 - Barclay Center (R&RHOF)
    '18 - Fenway Park
    '22 - MSG
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    frisbiecfrisbiec Seattle, WA Posts: 112
    thefin190 wrote:
    I am in the 400's and missed out on either Seattle tickets, fucking sucks. ust wondering, are ticket scalpers allowed to join the fan club and re-sell tickets? Obvious answer is no, but how do they get away with it??? I used to re-sell other tickets (not Pearl Jam) when I was in college for extra money because I was poor, but I was way too nervous to ever sell a Pearl Jam ticket in fear of being kicked out the fan club. I haven't done any ticket flipping in years. How are scalpers able to do this?
    They are able to get away with it because people are willing to pay crazy prices. There are already GA seats on eBay . . . if I understand correctly, GA is fan club only. So, some ten clubbers are already scalping their seats.
    Remove yourself from comfort . . . all progress involves risk
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    Given to...Given to... Wyoming Posts: 4,977
    edited July 2013
    wrote:

    Not true at all. Seniority had NOTHING to do with actually getting tickets even with the old system. It only came into play after you bought the tickets.

    That's the fact. Plain and simple.
    I'm definetly not sold on the lottery as it is, but those facts speak for themselves.
    To argue that, would seem silly.
    Post edited by Given to... on
    "...would you like some forks?" EV 12-02-06
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    MisterEtake2MisterEtake2 Posts: 372
    Sorry - but people can only favor the old system over the lottery for one reason: they had an unfair advantage which gave them a leg up on tickets and now that advantage is gone.
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    frisbiecfrisbiec Seattle, WA Posts: 112
    Sorry - but people can only favor the old system over the lottery for one reason: they had an unfair advantage which gave them a leg up on tickets and now that advantage is gone.
    How did the old system give anyone a leg up? If anything the new system gives people with tons of free time or disposable income a leg up.
    Remove yourself from comfort . . . all progress involves risk
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    frisbiecfrisbiec Seattle, WA Posts: 112
    edited July 2013
    MG79478 wrote:
    The ironic thing is that everyone had equal access to the F5 system, some put more in to it than others.

    Agreed. I never had a problem with F5 or Index cards. It seems that the universal reason that is given for people getting shut out is that there just aren't enough tickets. If this is the case, why are we allowed to go for broke and request multiple shows? It would be more equitable if everyone had equal access to one show.
    Post edited by frisbiec on
    Remove yourself from comfort . . . all progress involves risk
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    DivkaDivka Posts: 198
    MayDay10 wrote:

    I think the real issue is the allure of creating many garbage number accounts to get multiple entries for ga tickets

    Is it possible to have more than 1 account under the same name? Using fake names would not work...
    When the stars exploded billions of years ago, they formed everything that is this world. Everything we know is stardust...
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    Yep. Pay 4 more years of membership dues until the next tour and "hope" the great OZ operating the lottery behind the scenes picks you.

    I had better luck sending in physical index cards... SCARY
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,049
    ctsufer31 wrote:
    ctsufer31 wrote:
    The lottery system fails long time 10c members and benefits new club members.

    Why? It benefit long time 10c members, as usual you get better seats.

    Other than that, everyone have a equal chance to get tickets. As it, IMO, should be.

    Really?

    So to even the playing field and allow new members a chance to get tickets while members who have been supporting 10c for decades get shut out?

    Maybe you should see it my my point of view.
    Yeah. And your point of view is just filled with ego and weird selfishness.

    When did fanclub members ever have a bigger chance at tickets just because they were a part of the club longer?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,238
    Divka wrote:
    MayDay10 wrote:

    I think the real issue is the allure of creating many garbage number accounts to get multiple entries for ga tickets

    Is it possible to have more than 1 account under the same name? Using fake names would not work...
    Not under the same name, but spouses, children other family members, employees etc.
    This weekend we rock Portland
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    South of SeattleSouth of Seattle West Seattle Posts: 10,708
    frisbiec wrote:
    Sorry - but people can only favor the old system over the lottery for one reason: they had an unfair advantage which gave them a leg up on tickets and now that advantage is gone.
    How did the old system give anyone a leg up? If anything the new system gives people with tons of free time or disposable income a leg up.
    There were plenty of url hacks people used before . . trust me.
    NERDS!
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    frisbiec wrote:
    Sorry - but people can only favor the old system over the lottery for one reason: they had an unfair advantage which gave them a leg up on tickets and now that advantage is gone.
    How did the old system give anyone a leg up? If anything the new system gives people with tons of free time or disposable income a leg up.
    There were plenty of url hacks people used before . . trust me.
    You mean instead of clicking the LINK to the ticket page, they typed in the URL directly...

    hardly a HACK :fp:
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    UpSideDownUpSideDown Posts: 1,966
    Soybeans wrote:
    I never had problems buying tix to multiple shows. This will kill the traveling aspect of the fan base that has supported the band for so long.

    Bring back F5.

    I actually think this point is rather valid.
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    thefin190thefin190 Posts: 918
    frisbiec wrote:
    thefin190 wrote:
    I am in the 400's and missed out on either Seattle tickets, fucking sucks. ust wondering, are ticket scalpers allowed to join the fan club and re-sell tickets? Obvious answer is no, but how do they get away with it??? I used to re-sell other tickets (not Pearl Jam) when I was in college for extra money because I was poor, but I was way too nervous to ever sell a Pearl Jam ticket in fear of being kicked out the fan club. I haven't done any ticket flipping in years. How are scalpers able to do this?
    They are able to get away with it because people are willing to pay crazy prices. There are already GA seats on eBay . . . if I understand correctly, GA is fan club only. So, some ten clubbers are already scalping their seats.

    That's ridiculous and sad. This is why I stopped re-selling tickets, it was just so sad to see true fans shut out and forced to pay crazy prices because of pesky scalpers. Now I am experiencing the bad karma I probably had waiting for me, it hurts and it sucks.
    Member Number: 437xxx

    Pearl Jam:
    Key Arena - Seattle, WA - Sep 21, 2009
    Pacific Coliseum - Vancouver, BC - Sep 25, 2011
    Key Arena - Seattle, WA - Dec 6, 2013

    Eddie Vedder Solo:
    Benaroya Hall - Seattle, WA - Jul 15, 2011
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    frisbiecfrisbiec Seattle, WA Posts: 112
    frisbiec wrote:
    Sorry - but people can only favor the old system over the lottery for one reason: they had an unfair advantage which gave them a leg up on tickets and now that advantage is gone.
    How did the old system give anyone a leg up? If anything the new system gives people with tons of free time or disposable income a leg up.
    There were plenty of url hacks people used before . . trust me.
    There will be hacks in any computer system . . . I still don't see how in principle alone, the lottery system is more fair than "F5." At best, it is just different. At worst, it gives an advantage to those who are fiscally irresponsible or those with more disposable income.

    In reality, the most fair system would be the old school way of index cards/mail. But according to Tim, "Nobody wants to go back to that." - paraphrasing there, don't remember the exact words.
    Remove yourself from comfort . . . all progress involves risk
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    ZodZod Posts: 10,209
    I've written this a few times, but I think people underestimate how skewed the 10c membership is.

    Once seniority was brought in for seat allocation (it was never used for buying tickets, only for seat location) people stopped "forgetting to renew". I think this was on the Binaural Tour. Anyone who joined after that tour (so late 2000ish) has basically been screwed. They've gotten mediocre to crappy 10c seats etc....

    If they started to allocate tickets on seniority as well, its not just the people that signed up two weeks ago that would be screwed. The tickets would be gobbled up by all the members that signed up on the 2000 tour or earlier. I signed up in '98, it would benefit me, but I think its the wrong way to go.

    You've also got the combined problem of Pearl Jam barely touring and ticketing agencies restricting tickets to fan clubs. There aren't enough to go around.

    It wouldn't matter if it were by lottery or f5. People would still miss out. I think the system (while not perfect) gets the most amount of people to shows. It makes it pretty hard to see multiple shows via 10c tickets unless the shows are really low in demand.
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    JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 18,928
    ctsufer31 wrote:
    d.

    Earlier this year, I contacted someone at 10c about the new lottery system. She assured me that the new system was better. She explained that the old system of getting 10c tickets was being compromised but ticket brokers using computers to purchase as many tickets as possible.

    The saboteurs have been identified!
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
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    RatsTJRatsRatsTJRats Boston Posts: 431
    This argument will never end. Membership shows your dedication and loyalty to the band...It should be the lowest numbers picking what shows they want and the rest of us fighting for whats leftover....and for Non-10C members...pfft good luck jerks!!! If your not part of 10C then you cant see the band live!

    Btw, they have enough fans as is, no need to leave the door open for the new members or fans...honestly might as well just give tickets to every show to members 1-30,000...if one of those members cant go then they can sell it or pass it off to 30,001 and so on! Its the only fair way!


    :corn:
    This could be the day
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