That is an entirely unproductive line of thought. Like saying, we humans can't understand particle physics or neurology, so why bother getting serious about it.
I'm sorry but I didn't mean that we can't understand God at all. I think God is very present everywhere and we can communicate with him anytime with our thoughts, like a best friend. But I accept that there are things that I as a human can't fully understand about God's plan for everything.
That God has a plan for everything is a scary thought. That means God plans for children to get raped, for women to be kept in Castro torture basements, for men, women, and children to lead entire lives of physical and emotion pain.
God with his love, gave us all free will. There is no true love, without free will.
That's fine, but that's not a plan for everything. That's a roll of the dice and let's see what they do.
I believe that he doesn't have a "plan" for everything. He has an overall understanding, because he exists outside of time, therefore he already knows how it all ends but I don't think he lays it out. (Understand that I'm attempting not to sound like I'm stating fact, although it might seem so, because it is only my belief, these are things that we just don't know for sure. This is where someone's faith comes in.)
"Feel the path of everyday....which road you taking?"
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
If God actually existed... I highly doubt he has just sat there for the last 10-20 centuries or so and watched his beloved creation implode from within.
The small scale items like rape and murder are one thing, but large scale corruption within the church, witch hunts, wars and genocides (among a multitude of others) are quite another- let alone the havoc humans have unleashed on the environment (animals and planet).
He was real 'hands on' when the good book was written... and now he's supposedly just been kicking back and watching the Earth turn to shit- letting Satan weave his magic?
It might be just me... but I'm thinking if God existed... he'd have floated down from one of those clouds by now and said, "Geez guys. C'mon, man. We went through this centuries ago. Stop messing with each other and be nice... or I'll unleash a nasty flood or something."
Further... isn't it just like humans to assume we are God's greatest creation. Are we positive it wasn't whales or lions that God really loves the most? We're just another animal doing our thing until we pass- that's not such a bad thing you know!
That is an entirely unproductive line of thought. Like saying, we humans can't understand particle physics or neurology, so why bother getting serious about it.
I'm sorry but I didn't mean that we can't understand God at all. I think God is very present everywhere and we can communicate with him anytime with our thoughts, like a best friend. But I accept that there are things that I as a human can't fully understand about God's plan for everything.
That God has a plan for everything is a scary thought. That means God plans for children to get raped, for women to be kept in Castro torture basements, for men, women, and children to lead entire lives of physical and emotion pain.
God with his love, gave us all free will. There is no true love, without free will.
That's fine, but that's not a plan for everything. That's a roll of the dice and let's see what they do.
I believe that he doesn't have a "plan" for everything. He has an overall understanding, because he exists outside of time, therefore he already knows how it all ends but I don't think he lays it out. (Understand that I'm attempting not to sound like I'm stating fact, although it might seem so, because it is only my belief, these are things that we just don't know for sure. This is where someone's faith comes in.)
Well said my friend, this is putting trust love and obedience in your maker...
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
In case you don't know, the proper way to love someone is without conditions, without threats, and without reward.
gambs, I so agree with this - and it has nothing to do with beliefs or non-beliefs or anything in between.
When I got to know and love my husband, it was for who HE is, nothing to do with reciprocation or as you said, reward.
Yeah reciprocation is the word I failed to find on the fly, but it's the right one. I guess "need for reciprocation" is even better, because it is nice to be loved back and deepens the love. If you are into words you should read that Browning poem I linked...then again, if you are into words (even for those who are, Romantic poetry isn't most people's cup of tea lol) you don't need my prompting lol
If God actually existed... I highly doubt he has just sat there for the last 10-20 centuries or so and watched his beloved creation implode from within.
The small scale items like rape and murder are one thing, but large scale corruption within the church, witch hunts, wars and genocides (among a multitude of others) are quite another- let alone the havoc humans have unleashed on the environment (animals and planet).
He was real 'hands on' when the good book was written... and now he's supposedly just been kicking back and watching the Earth turn to shit- letting Satan weave his magic?
It might be just me... but I'm thinking if God existed... he'd have floated down from one of those clouds by now and said, "Geez guys. C'mon, man. We went through this centuries ago. Stop messing with each other and be nice... or I'll unleash a nasty flood or something."
Further... isn't it just like humans to assume we are God's greatest creation. Are we positive it wasn't whales or lions that God really loves the most? We're just another animal doing our thing until we pass- that's not such a bad thing you know!
He first laid down rules, then corrected his people, then set example(s) to follow, and then yes allows Satan his time.
"Feel the path of everyday....which road you taking?"
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
If God actually existed... I highly doubt he has just sat there for the last 10-20 centuries or so and watched his beloved creation implode from within.
The small scale items like rape and murder are one thing, but large scale corruption within the church, witch hunts, wars and genocides (among a multitude of others) are quite another- let alone the havoc humans have unleashed on the environment (animals and planet).
He was real 'hands on' when the good book was written... and now he's supposedly just been kicking back and watching the Earth turn to shit- letting Satan weave his magic?
It might be just me... but I'm thinking if God existed... he'd have floated down from one of those clouds by now and said, "Geez guys. C'mon, man. We went through this centuries ago. Stop messing with each other and be nice... or I'll unleash a nasty flood or something."
Further... isn't it just like humans to assume we are God's greatest creation. Are we positive it wasn't whales or lions that God really loves the most? We're just another animal doing our thing until we pass- that's not such a bad thing you know!
He first laid down rules, then corrected his people, then set example(s) to follow, and then yes allows Satan his time.
To prove to other authorities (angels) that only he is the best ruler
If God actually existed... I highly doubt he has just sat there for the last 10-20 centuries or so and watched his beloved creation implode from within.
The small scale items like rape and murder are one thing, but large scale corruption within the church, witch hunts, wars and genocides (among a multitude of others) are quite another- let alone the havoc humans have unleashed on the environment (animals and planet).
He was real 'hands on' when the good book was written... and now he's supposedly just been kicking back and watching the Earth turn to shit- letting Satan weave his magic?
It might be just me... but I'm thinking if God existed... he'd have floated down from one of those clouds by now and said, "Geez guys. C'mon, man. We went through this centuries ago. Stop messing with each other and be nice... or I'll unleash a nasty flood or something."
Further... isn't it just like humans to assume we are God's greatest creation. Are we positive it wasn't whales or lions that God really loves the most? We're just another animal doing our thing until we pass- that's not such a bad thing you know!
He first laid down rules, then corrected his people, then set example(s) to follow, and then yes allows Satan his time.
To prove to other authorities (angels) that only he is the best ruler
"Watch this fellas, I can turn these poor fools over to the devil, and prove I am better than him. So you better listen to me 'cuz I am the best."
Meanwhile, on Earth, there is genocide and rape and torture and starvation and pain. But who cares about that, God is winning his bet with the angels!
"if there is a god, I know SHE likes to rock. she likes the loud guitars and the Spiders From Mars."
He/She is certainly interchangeable, as God, I believe, is neither. I just prefer not to use the word "it" or overuse the word God as it sounds too preachy. So historical "He" works for me, but really just semantics.
"Feel the path of everyday....which road you taking?"
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
If God actually existed... I highly doubt he has just sat there for the last 10-20 centuries or so and watched his beloved creation implode from within.
The small scale items like rape and murder are one thing, but large scale corruption within the church, witch hunts, wars and genocides (among a multitude of others) are quite another- let alone the havoc humans have unleashed on the environment (animals and planet).
He was real 'hands on' when the good book was written... and now he's supposedly just been kicking back and watching the Earth turn to shit- letting Satan weave his magic?
It might be just me... but I'm thinking if God existed... he'd have floated down from one of those clouds by now and said, "Geez guys. C'mon, man. We went through this centuries ago. Stop messing with each other and be nice... or I'll unleash a nasty flood or something."
Further... isn't it just like humans to assume we are God's greatest creation. Are we positive it wasn't whales or lions that God really loves the most? We're just another animal doing our thing until we pass- that's not such a bad thing you know!
He first laid down rules, then corrected his people, then set example(s) to follow, and then yes allows Satan his time.
To prove to other authorities (angels) that only he is the best ruler
"Watch this fellas, I can turn these poor fools over to the devil, and prove I am better than him. So you better listen to me 'cuz I am the best."
Meanwhile, on Earth, there is genocide and rape and torture and starvation and pain. But who cares about that, God is winning his bet with the angels!
so it never has to happen again once you see what he's going to do to the demons, free will eh
"if there is a god, I know SHE likes to rock. she likes the loud guitars and the Spiders From Mars."
He/She is certainly interchangeable, as God, I believe, is neither. I just prefer not to use the word "it" or overuse the word God as it sounds too preachy. So historical "He" works for me, but really just semantics.
Ditto but the bible does say he, and God created man in his image, the woman was from man as a compliment...
Post edited by JWPearl on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
Some interesting discussion on the old testament a while back yet I'm surprised to see no one mention that so much of what are in those books are metaphors, tales and mythology, not fact. Earth created in seven days, man created from mud, woman from mud man's rib, whale swallows man who is later puked up and lives, man build boat to carry two of each species (making sure not to miss any pair of the millions of insects, microbes, echinoderms, etc), Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walking around in a fiery furnace heated seven times the normal amount used to in executions, Lot's wife checking out Sodom and Gomorrah turned into pillar of salt, Red Sea parts allowing army to walk through it . If the Bible is God's word, I'm thinking God is one of Hollywood's best sci fi/ fantasy script writers.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Some interesting discussion on the old testament a while back yet I'm surprised to see no one mention that so much of what are in those books are metaphors, tales and mythology, not fact. Earth created in seven days, man created from mud, woman from mud man's rib, whale swallows man who is later puked up and lives, man build boat to carry two of each species (making sure not to miss any pair of the millions of insects, microbes, echinoderms, etc), Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walking around in a fiery furnace heated seven times the normal amount used to in executions, Lot's wife checking out Sodom and Gomorrah turned into pillar of salt, Red Sea parts allowing army to walk through it . If the Bible is God's word, I'm thinking God is one of Hollywood's best sci fi/ fantasy script writers.
surely Brian if you can believe in magic you can believe in miracles?
Some interesting discussion on the old testament a while back yet I'm surprised to see no one mention that so much of what are in those books are metaphors, tales and mythology, not fact. Earth created in seven days, man created from mud, woman from mud man's rib, whale swallows man who is later puked up and lives, man build boat to carry two of each species (making sure not to miss any pair of the millions of insects, microbes, echinoderms, etc), Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walking around in a fiery furnace heated seven times the normal amount used to in executions, Lot's wife checking out Sodom and Gomorrah turned into pillar of salt, Red Sea parts allowing army to walk through it . If the Bible is God's word, I'm thinking God is one of Hollywood's best sci fi/ fantasy script writers.
The Mormons can be heard joking from time to time that "if the Bible were made directly into a movie, we wouldn't be allowed to watch it" lol
To your post, taking it as metaphor is good in my opinion, but some folks don't want the consequence, which is opening yourself up to a wider canon of spiritual works. It would be great business for you lol if more people were interested in seeking out the great writers on spirituality and morality.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
Some interesting discussion on the old testament a while back yet I'm surprised to see no one mention that so much of what are in those books are metaphors, tales and mythology, not fact. Earth created in seven days, man created from mud, woman from mud man's rib, whale swallows man who is later puked up and lives, man build boat to carry two of each species (making sure not to miss any pair of the millions of insects, microbes, echinoderms, etc), Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walking around in a fiery furnace heated seven times the normal amount used to in executions, Lot's wife checking out Sodom and Gomorrah turned into pillar of salt, Red Sea parts allowing army to walk through it . If the Bible is God's word, I'm thinking God is one of Hollywood's best sci fi/ fantasy script writers.
I really like the ideas put forth by Joseph Campbell in The Power of Myth. It seems like there are universal ways that previous groups/civilizations have used to explain things they couldn't understand. Most religions and philosophies have several things in common like a "hero" and metaphors and ways to get to heaven, achieve Nirvana and the like. I think for early people this made total sense but with our advances in science I have a hard time understanding the continued appeal of religion.
I've never been able to reconcile my Christian background with what I know about history. At the most simplistic level, recorded history begins about 10,000 years ago while the Abrahamic faiths began about 5,000 years ago. How do Christians explain that 5,000 year gap when men were around but clearly Christianity/Judaism weren't part of the equation? No one's ever answered that for me, just gotten the stock answer of taking it on faith.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
Some interesting discussion on the old testament a while back yet I'm surprised to see no one mention that so much of what are in those books are metaphors, tales and mythology, not fact. Earth created in seven days, man created from mud, woman from mud man's rib, whale swallows man who is later puked up and lives, man build boat to carry two of each species (making sure not to miss any pair of the millions of insects, microbes, echinoderms, etc), Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walking around in a fiery furnace heated seven times the normal amount used to in executions, Lot's wife checking out Sodom and Gomorrah turned into pillar of salt, Red Sea parts allowing army to walk through it . If the Bible is God's word, I'm thinking God is one of Hollywood's best sci fi/ fantasy script writers.
I really like the ideas put forth by Joseph Campbell in The Power of Myth. It seems like there are universal ways that previous groups/civilizations have used to explain things they couldn't understand. Most religions and philosophies have several things in common like a "hero" and metaphors and ways to get to heaven, achieve Nirvana and the like. I think for early people this made total sense but with our advances in science I have a hard time understanding the continued appeal of religion.
I've never been able to reconcile my Christian background with what I know about history. At the most simplistic level, recorded history begins about 10,000 years ago while the Abrahamic faiths began about 5,000 years ago. How do Christians explain that 5,000 year gap when men were around but clearly Christianity/Judaism weren't part of the equation? No one's ever answered that for me, just gotten the stock answer of taking it on faith.
Magical thinking. (AKA, denial) :-)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Some interesting discussion on the old testament a while back yet I'm surprised to see no one mention that so much of what are in those books are metaphors, tales and mythology, not fact. Earth created in seven days, man created from mud, woman from mud man's rib, whale swallows man who is later puked up and lives, man build boat to carry two of each species (making sure not to miss any pair of the millions of insects, microbes, echinoderms, etc), Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walking around in a fiery furnace heated seven times the normal amount used to in executions, Lot's wife checking out Sodom and Gomorrah turned into pillar of salt, Red Sea parts allowing army to walk through it . If the Bible is God's word, I'm thinking God is one of Hollywood's best sci fi/ fantasy script writers.
I really like the ideas put forth by Joseph Campbell in The Power of Myth. It seems like there are universal ways that previous groups/civilizations have used to explain things they couldn't understand. Most religions and philosophies have several things in common like a "hero" and metaphors and ways to get to heaven, achieve Nirvana and the like. I think for early people this made total sense but with our advances in science I have a hard time understanding the continued appeal of religion.
I've never been able to reconcile my Christian background with what I know about history. At the most simplistic level, recorded history begins about 10,000 years ago while the Abrahamic faiths began about 5,000 years ago. How do Christians explain that 5,000 year gap when men were around but clearly Christianity/Judaism weren't part of the equation? No one's ever answered that for me, just gotten the stock answer of taking it on faith.
Magical thinking. (AKA, denial) :-)
everyone knows that man and the dinosaurs co-existed.... right, right, right??? hello????
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
Some interesting discussion on the old testament a while back yet I'm surprised to see no one mention that so much of what are in those books are metaphors, tales and mythology, not fact. Earth created in seven days, man created from mud, woman from mud man's rib, whale swallows man who is later puked up and lives, man build boat to carry two of each species (making sure not to miss any pair of the millions of insects, microbes, echinoderms, etc), Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walking around in a fiery furnace heated seven times the normal amount used to in executions, Lot's wife checking out Sodom and Gomorrah turned into pillar of salt, Red Sea parts allowing army to walk through it . If the Bible is God's word, I'm thinking God is one of Hollywood's best sci fi/ fantasy script writers.
I really like the ideas put forth by Joseph Campbell in The Power of Myth. It seems like there are universal ways that previous groups/civilizations have used to explain things they couldn't understand. Most religions and philosophies have several things in common like a "hero" and metaphors and ways to get to heaven, achieve Nirvana and the like. I think for early people this made total sense but with our advances in science I have a hard time understanding the continued appeal of religion.
I've never been able to reconcile my Christian background with what I know about history. At the most simplistic level, recorded history begins about 10,000 years ago while the Abrahamic faiths began about 5,000 years ago. How do Christians explain that 5,000 year gap when men were around but clearly Christianity/Judaism weren't part of the equation? No one's ever answered that for me, just gotten the stock answer of taking it on faith.
Magical thinking. (AKA, denial) :-)
everyone knows that man and the dinosaurs co-existed.... right, right, right??? hello????
Hahaha! Right!! Last time I heard that one, I fell off my flying pterodactyl!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Some interesting discussion on the old testament a while back yet I'm surprised to see no one mention that so much of what are in those books are metaphors, tales and mythology, not fact. Earth created in seven days, man created from mud, woman from mud man's rib, whale swallows man who is later puked up and lives, man build boat to carry two of each species (making sure not to miss any pair of the millions of insects, microbes, echinoderms, etc), Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walking around in a fiery furnace heated seven times the normal amount used to in executions, Lot's wife checking out Sodom and Gomorrah turned into pillar of salt, Red Sea parts allowing army to walk through it . If the Bible is God's word, I'm thinking God is one of Hollywood's best sci fi/ fantasy script writers.
I really like the ideas put forth by Joseph Campbell in The Power of Myth. It seems like there are universal ways that previous groups/civilizations have used to explain things they couldn't understand. Most religions and philosophies have several things in common like a "hero" and metaphors and ways to get to heaven, achieve Nirvana and the like. I think for early people this made total sense but with our advances in science I have a hard time understanding the continued appeal of religion.
I've never been able to reconcile my Christian background with what I know about history. At the most simplistic level, recorded history begins about 10,000 years ago while the Abrahamic faiths began about 5,000 years ago. How do Christians explain that 5,000 year gap when men were around but clearly Christianity/Judaism weren't part of the equation? No one's ever answered that for me, just gotten the stock answer of taking it on faith.
Magical thinking. (AKA, denial) :-)
everyone knows that man and the dinosaurs co-existed.... right, right, right??? hello????
Hell ya, even saw the movie caveman with ringo star!
Ι'm not a descendant of any Jewish magician or rapιst..the world don't created at 3.500 years B.C...the man don't came by mud..all the historical backround of Bible its stolen..i can't believe in a relegion who claim that had the truth, and in the same time, has a lot of ramifications.. the greek wod for Zeus, its Dias(Διας)..the greek word for Satan, its Diavolos(Διαβολος)..can you see the similarity???..the greek word Diavolos, its mean ''slander''..
Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015. Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022 EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Ι'm not a descendant of any Jewish magician or rapιst..the world don't created at 3.500 years B.C...the man don't came by mud..all the historical backround of Bible its stolen..i can't believe in a relegion who claim that had the truth, and in the same time, has a lot of ramifications.. the greek wod for Zeus, its Dias(Διας)..the greek word for Satan, its Diavolos(Διαβολος)..can you see the similarity???..the greek word Diavolos, its mean ''slander''..
Yeah it's cobbled together from the older traditions. Jesus is just the Hebrew version of Horus, etc etc...
That is an entirely unproductive line of thought. Like saying, we humans can't understand particle physics or neurology, so why bother getting serious about it.
I'm sorry but I didn't mean that we can't understand God at all. I think God is very present everywhere and we can communicate with him anytime with our thoughts, like a best friend. But I accept that there are things that I as a human can't fully understand about God's plan for everything.
That God has a plan for everything is a scary thought. That means God plans for children to get raped, for women to be kept in Castro torture basements, for men, women, and children to lead entire lives of physical and emotion pain.
God with his love, gave us all free will. There is no true love, without free will.
That's fine, but that's not a plan for everything. That's a roll of the dice and let's see what they do.
I believe that he doesn't have a "plan" for everything. He has an overall understanding, because he exists outside of time, therefore he already knows how it all ends but I don't think he lays it out. (Understand that I'm attempting not to sound like I'm stating fact, although it might seem so, because it is only my belief, these are things that we just don't know for sure. This is where someone's faith comes in.)
Doesn't this constitute a sin of omission? To know that massive, ridiculous amounts of suffering will befall the innocent and to allow it, when you have the power to bring it to an end? This idea doesn't absolve him of guilt at all for me.
If God actually existed... I highly doubt he has just sat there for the last 10-20 centuries or so and watched his beloved creation implode from within.
The small scale items like rape and murder are one thing, but large scale corruption within the church, witch hunts, wars and genocides (among a multitude of others) are quite another- let alone the havoc humans have unleashed on the environment (animals and planet).
He was real 'hands on' when the good book was written... and now he's supposedly just been kicking back and watching the Earth turn to shit- letting Satan weave his magic?
It might be just me... but I'm thinking if God existed... he'd have floated down from one of those clouds by now and said, "Geez guys. C'mon, man. We went through this centuries ago. Stop messing with each other and be nice... or I'll unleash a nasty flood or something."
Further... isn't it just like humans to assume we are God's greatest creation. Are we positive it wasn't whales or lions that God really loves the most? We're just another animal doing our thing until we pass- that's not such a bad thing you know!
He first laid down rules, then corrected his people, then set example(s) to follow, and then yes allows Satan his time.
To prove to other authorities (angels) that only he is the best ruler
"Watch this fellas, I can turn these poor fools over to the devil, and prove I am better than him. So you better listen to me 'cuz I am the best."
Meanwhile, on Earth, there is genocide and rape and torture and starvation and pain. But who cares about that, God is winning his bet with the angels!
so it never has to happen again once you see what he's going to do to the demons, free will eh
You continually miss the point in clinging to the fables handed down instead of looking at it critically. "So it never has to happen again" Why does it need to happen in the first place? So he can prove how great he is? Wouldn't peace and love and the absence of suffering be a much better proof of greatness than subjecting your subjects to abject misery so that you can take it away and say "look what I can do"?
The most challenging questions can never be answered satisfactorily by zealots. The blanket answer is always, "you must have faith"... followed by a veiled threat laced with a touch of guilt, "this is as God wants it." In other words... don't question. I never found this type of response adequate as I grew older.
Like most, I had my experience with religion. As a human being is inclined to do- especially when presented with such a story- I began to question what was being told to me as a young teen. The more I questioned, the more I felt myself moving away from my relationship with God. This was not easy and I can't even say it was a conscious transformation- it was a daily struggle associated with much guilt. I can't recall exactly when, but there came a time when my head poked from the clouds and that experience was behind me. On occasion, I still consider the idea... but not for very long- logistically alone... I feel the story is impossible.
It's tough to see religion as I do now when you are 'all in'. When children are presented with such a wonderful story and message of hope, it's a super easy sell. And once that story has its roots, it's extremely difficult to shed. Adults in vulnerable states often need such hope and religion offers them a way of life that keeps their life in a positive state.
What am I trying to say? I guess I'm saying as flippant as I might be when it comes to religion, I am so only towards the institution. As far as any individuals choosing to believe or not believe... whatever gets you through your day provided you aren't stomping on anyone else (from pushing religion to blowing people up in the name of it).
I believe that he doesn't have a "plan" for everything. He has an overall understanding, because he exists outside of time, therefore he already knows how it all ends but I don't think he lays it out. This is where someone's faith comes in.)
The most challenging questions can never be answered satisfactorily by zealots. The blanket answer is always, "you must have faith"... followed by a veiled threat laced with a touch of guilt, "this is as God wants it." In other words... don't question. I never found this type of response adequate as I grew older.
Like most, I had my experience with religion. As a human being is inclined to do- especially when presented with such a story- I began to question what was being told to me as a young teen. The more I questioned, the more I felt myself moving away from my relationship with God. This was not easy and I can't even say it was a conscious transformation- it was a daily struggle associated with much guilt. I can't recall exactly when, but there came a time when my head poked from the clouds and that experience was behind me. On occasion, I still consider the idea... but not for very long- logistically alone... I feel the story is impossible.
It's tough to see religion as I do now when you are 'all in'. When children are presented with such a wonderful story and message of hope, it's a super easy sell. And once that story has its roots, it's extremely difficult to shed. Adults in vulnerable states often need such hope and religion offers them a way of life that keeps their life in a positive state.
What am I trying to say? I guess I'm saying as flippant as I might be when it comes to religion, I am so only towards the institution. As far as any individuals choosing to believe or not believe... whatever gets you through your day provided you aren't stomping on anyone else (from pushing religion to blowing people up in the name of it).
Is it fair to say that a belief should be evidenced not faith based?
Comments
(Understand that I'm attempting not to sound like I'm stating fact, although it might seem so, because it is only my belief, these are things that we just don't know for sure. This is where someone's faith comes in.)
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
The small scale items like rape and murder are one thing, but large scale corruption within the church, witch hunts, wars and genocides (among a multitude of others) are quite another- let alone the havoc humans have unleashed on the environment (animals and planet).
He was real 'hands on' when the good book was written... and now he's supposedly just been kicking back and watching the Earth turn to shit- letting Satan weave his magic?
It might be just me... but I'm thinking if God existed... he'd have floated down from one of those clouds by now and said, "Geez guys. C'mon, man. We went through this centuries ago. Stop messing with each other and be nice... or I'll unleash a nasty flood or something."
Further... isn't it just like humans to assume we are God's greatest creation. Are we positive it wasn't whales or lions that God really loves the most? We're just another animal doing our thing until we pass- that's not such a bad thing you know!
When I got to know and love my husband, it was for who HE is, nothing to do with reciprocation or as you said, reward.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
Meanwhile, on Earth, there is genocide and rape and torture and starvation and pain. But who cares about that, God is winning his bet with the angels!
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
To your post, taking it as metaphor is good in my opinion, but some folks don't want the consequence, which is opening yourself up to a wider canon of spiritual works. It would be great business for you lol if more people were interested in seeking out the great writers on spirituality and morality.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
I really like the ideas put forth by Joseph Campbell in The Power of Myth. It seems like there are universal ways that previous groups/civilizations have used to explain things they couldn't understand. Most religions and philosophies have several things in common like a "hero" and metaphors and ways to get to heaven, achieve Nirvana and the like. I think for early people this made total sense but with our advances in science I have a hard time understanding the continued appeal of religion.
I've never been able to reconcile my Christian background with what I know about history. At the most simplistic level, recorded history begins about 10,000 years ago while the Abrahamic faiths began about 5,000 years ago. How do Christians explain that 5,000 year gap when men were around but clearly Christianity/Judaism weren't part of the equation? No one's ever answered that for me, just gotten the stock answer of taking it on faith.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvmnxn_dawkins-answers-why-he-refuses-to-debate-creationists_news
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgjlcg_richard-dawkins-explains-darwinian-selection-of-universes_news
the greek wod for Zeus, its Dias(Διας)..the greek word for Satan, its Diavolos(Διαβολος)..can you see the similarity???..the greek word Diavolos, its mean ''slander''..
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Why does it need to happen in the first place? So he can prove how great he is? Wouldn't peace and love and the absence of suffering be a much better proof of greatness than subjecting your subjects to abject misery so that you can take it away and say "look what I can do"?
Like most, I had my experience with religion. As a human being is inclined to do- especially when presented with such a story- I began to question what was being told to me as a young teen. The more I questioned, the more I felt myself moving away from my relationship with God. This was not easy and I can't even say it was a conscious transformation- it was a daily struggle associated with much guilt. I can't recall exactly when, but there came a time when my head poked from the clouds and that experience was behind me. On occasion, I still consider the idea... but not for very long- logistically alone... I feel the story is impossible.
It's tough to see religion as I do now when you are 'all in'. When children are presented with such a wonderful story and message of hope, it's a super easy sell. And once that story has its roots, it's extremely difficult to shed. Adults in vulnerable states often need such hope and religion offers them a way of life that keeps their life in a positive state.
What am I trying to say? I guess I'm saying as flippant as I might be when it comes to religion, I am so only towards the institution. As far as any individuals choosing to believe or not believe... whatever gets you through your day provided you aren't stomping on anyone else (from pushing religion to blowing people up in the name of it).
I believe that he doesn't have a "plan" for everything. He has an overall understanding, because he exists outside of time, therefore he already knows how it all ends but I don't think he lays it out.
This is where someone's faith comes in.)
Is it fair to say that a belief should be evidenced not faith based?