It looks to me that the officer who shot the dog steps forward and tries to grab the leash/handle and then the dog lunged, why would you try and grab the leash? that's not going to stop the dog. There was one move to make, immediately let the owner subdue his dog, but since they had started his arrest it was inconceivable to them to do so( because they have to be in total control of a situation), a man who offered absolutely no resistance, instead he got scared and blew the dog away.
Exactly. I can't believe the cops wouldn't just let the owner step forward like he tried to do and calm his dog down. It would have been so simple. They didn't even need to uncuff him for that.
Oh yeah. Easy peasy. Just so simple. Good gawd, man.
Your lack of respect for cops is blatant so don't hide behind your lame "I'm not a cop hater or anything" because you are. Obviously. I mean, look how you painfully refute the evidence in the video that is so plain to nearly everyone else (Unsung excluded). The dog lunging at the cop was presented to you and you said, "No no. It never did". Then presented on this very forum in still frame... you say that was because it got shot. Come on, man. Things don't go forward when they are shot... they go backwards. To which, I might add, for all those 'use another tactic for the large dog' advocates... that first bullet had little effect on the dog. The next bullets were in response to the fact that the dog still seemed undeterred.
PJ Soul... I have usually read and enjoy the things you have written, but I respectfully put to you that you are way off base with this one. I'm sorry, but the life of a human trumps that of a dog. And the cops that we place in the streets to do the work we need them to do need a little more support and a little more understanding when they are forced to deal with things that place them at risk. This wasn't an error in judgement... this action was warranted. Don't paint every cop with the same brush that painted a few bad eggs.
Oh yeah. Easy peasy. Just so simple. Good gawd, man.
Your lack of respect for cops is blatant so don't hide behind your lame "I'm not a cop hater or anything" because you are. Obviously. I mean, look how you painfully refute the evidence in the video that is so plain to nearly everyone else (Unsung excluded). The dog lunging at the cop was presented to you and you said, "No no. It never did". Then presented on this very forum in still frame... you say that was because it got shot. Come on, man. Things don't go forward when they are shot... they go backwards. To which, I might add, for all those 'use another tactic for the large dog' advocates... that first bullet had little effect on the dog. The next bullets were in response to the fact that the dog still seemed undeterred.
PJ Soul... I have usually read and enjoy the things you have written, but I respectfully put to you that you are way off base with this one. I'm sorry, but the life of a human trumps that of a dog. And the cops that we place in the streets to do the work we need them to do need a little more support and a little more understanding when they are forced to deal with things that place them at risk. This wasn't an error in judgement... this action was warranted. Don't paint every cop with the same brush that painted a few bad eggs.
i do enjoy your thoughts & your writing. here is were we are different. to me all life is equal (although i have zero no use for evil/monsters) to some degree of greatness. however, i like to believe humans are less than critters. but why would you think this way, chad? because us humans should know better & have compassion, understanding & we should have knowledge, kindness & things, yet we are deeper in negative-dark energy & have almost zero morals than any creature on this planet as we pollute & multiply spreading our cancers.
we have the power to change things for the positive but we destroy everything we touch. humans are the truest evil we have. in reality worms deserves to live moreso than humans. buddhism has shown me things.
It looks to me that the officer who shot the dog steps forward and tries to grab the leash/handle and then the dog lunged, why would you try and grab the leash? that's not going to stop the dog. There was one move to make, immediately let the owner subdue his dog, but since they had started his arrest it was inconceivable to them to do so( because they have to be in total control of a situation), a man who offered absolutely no resistance, instead he got scared and blew the dog away.
Exactly. I can't believe the cops wouldn't just let the owner step forward like he tried to do and calm his dog down. It would have been so simple. They didn't even need to uncuff him for that.
Oh yeah. Easy peasy. Just so simple. Good gawd, man.
Your lack of respect for cops is blatant so don't hide behind your lame "I'm not a cop hater or anything" because you are. Obviously. I mean, look how you painfully refute the evidence in the video that is so plain to nearly everyone else (Unsung excluded). The dog lunging at the cop was presented to you and you said, "No no. It never did". Then presented on this very forum in still frame... you say that was because it got shot. Come on, man. Things don't go forward when they are shot... they go backwards. To which, I might add, for all those 'use another tactic for the large dog' advocates... that first bullet had little effect on the dog. The next bullets were in response to the fact that the dog still seemed undeterred.
PJ Soul... I have usually read and enjoy the things you have written, but I respectfully put to you that you are way off base with this one. I'm sorry, but the life of a human trumps that of a dog. And the cops that we place in the streets to do the work we need them to do need a little more support and a little more understanding when they are forced to deal with things that place them at risk. This wasn't an error in judgement... this action was warranted. Don't paint every cop with the same brush that painted a few bad eggs.
Sigh. I'm not a fucking cop hater. I respect most cops because most of them are decent, but there are still a lot who aren't, and they force me to err on the side of caution generally when it comes to considering police actions. I completely back up and support cops.... UNLESS I THINK THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG. I don't think that, assume that, or decide that before I see something to make me think it. Only after I see that something isn't right IMO. Obviously you don't remember all the other posts I've made in support of police actions in other situations. I absolutely consider each and every situation individually, and do not necessarily take a stance against cops (I don't even usually do that). I'm not arguing the point with you. I know how I feel, and you obviously don't remember all my pro-cop positions in the past.
I know the life of a human trumps that of a dog. But no human life was threatened here.
Unsung and I have an opinion... and then "everyone else" (so you and who? maybe 2 other people?) have another one. So that makes you right?? I disagree.
Anyway, no point at all in arguing the issue further. We have both made out views very clear, and have explained them thoroughly. I have shown you more respect that you have me, since I have not called you a liar about your own feelings about certain issues, so I'll give myself a point on that one, but otherwise, this is simply a discussion that is going nowhere, since there is no more info either of us can put out there to back up our positions.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Sigh. I'm not a fucking cop hater. I respect most cops because most of them are decent, but there are still a lot who aren't, and they force me to err on the side of caution generally when it comes to considering police actions. I completely back up and support cops.... UNLESS I THINK THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG. I don't think that, assume that, or decide that before I see something to make me think it. Only after I see that something isn't right IMO. Obviously you don't remember all the other posts I've made in support of police actions in other situations. I absolutely consider each and every situation individually, and do not necessarily take a stance against cops (I don't even usually do that). I'm not arguing the point with you. I know how I feel, and you obviously don't remember all my pro-cop positions in the past.
I know the life of a human trumps that of a dog. But no human life was threatened here.
Unsung and I have an opinion... and then "everyone else" (so you and who? maybe 2 other people?) have another one. So that makes you right?? I disagree.
Anyway, no point at all in arguing the issue further. We have both made out views very clear, and have explained them thoroughly. I have shown you more respect that you have me, since I have not called you a liar about your own feelings about certain issues, so I'll give myself a point on that one, but otherwise, this is simply a discussion that is going nowhere, since there is no more info either of us can put out there to back up our positions.
You can have a point on that one if you wish, but I think if you are honest with yourself... or at least read back through your posts... you have expressed many comments that show very little respect for the extremely difficult job police officers do. And I did extend some respect when I said aside form this issue, I appreciate your posts.
And... if we're looking to score points... I guess I'll give myself a few seeing as you never bothered to clarify your post where you described stripping the powers of cops to what I would call 'bare bones'. The one where you said: 'officers should run 20 meters when confronted by a bad man' and 'cops should look to tussle instead of drawing their weapon when confronted by a bad man' (take a bruise or scrape here and there).
Hey... you are not a bad person. I am not saying this. The only thing I have really said is that cops are in a demanding position. There are bad ones- of course- but there are good ones too that have performed admirably. If we place them in the position where we expect them to maintain order at their own risk... then we owe them the opportunity to defend themselves when they are threatened. A cop shouldn't have had to get bit to defend themselves.
Sigh. I'm not a fucking cop hater. I respect most cops because most of them are decent, but there are still a lot who aren't, and they force me to err on the side of caution generally when it comes to considering police actions. I completely back up and support cops.... UNLESS I THINK THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG. I don't think that, assume that, or decide that before I see something to make me think it. Only after I see that something isn't right IMO. Obviously you don't remember all the other posts I've made in support of police actions in other situations. I absolutely consider each and every situation individually, and do not necessarily take a stance against cops (I don't even usually do that). I'm not arguing the point with you. I know how I feel, and you obviously don't remember all my pro-cop positions in the past.
I know the life of a human trumps that of a dog. But no human life was threatened here.
Unsung and I have an opinion... and then "everyone else" (so you and who? maybe 2 other people?) have another one. So that makes you right?? I disagree.
Anyway, no point at all in arguing the issue further. We have both made out views very clear, and have explained them thoroughly. I have shown you more respect that you have me, since I have not called you a liar about your own feelings about certain issues, so I'll give myself a point on that one, but otherwise, this is simply a discussion that is going nowhere, since there is no more info either of us can put out there to back up our positions.
You can have a point on that one if you wish, but I think if you are honest with yourself... or at least read back through your posts... you have expressed many comments that show very little respect for the extremely difficult job police officers do. And I did extend some respect when I said aside form this issue, I appreciate your posts.
And... if we're looking to score points... I guess I'll give myself a few seeing as you never bothered to clarify your post where you described stripping the powers of cops to what I would call 'bare bones'. The one where you said: 'officers should run 20 meters when confronted by a bad man' and 'cops should look to tussle instead of drawing their weapon when confronted by a bad man' (take a bruise or scrape here and there).
Hey... you are not a bad person. I am not saying this. The only thing I have really said is that cops are in a demanding position. There are bad ones- of course- but there are good ones too that have performed admirably. If we place them in the position where we expect them to maintain order at their own risk... then we owe them the opportunity to defend themselves when they are threatened. A cop shouldn't have had to get bit to defend themselves.
Let me clarify this statement, because obviously it was misinterpreted, judging from your paraphrasing:
'officers should run 20 meters when confronted by a bad man' and 'cops should look to tussle instead of drawing their weapon when confronted by a bad man' (take a bruise or scrape here and there).
What I was saying was that these days, it seems that a lot of cops will use a taser on someone instead of running 20 meters. In other words, they will taze someone rather than chase them a block or grab them and get them on the ground, possibly risking their life instead of being willing to give a bit of a chase or a tackle like cops used to do. Also, some cops have been found to taze people who were evading skytrain fare and tried to run. Fucking $2.75. That is abuse of power and a misuse of their weapons. And yeah, I think that some cops have been known to shoot someone when the threat to their safety is minimal, i.e. the threat is that they might get a bruise. I am not sure what you mean when you say that I think cop's powers should be stripped down to bare bones, because that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that more and more I'm noticing a trend that suggests cops are no longer willing to put themselves at ANY kind of risk, sometimes at the expense of the lives of others. I'm not suggesting that they should offer themselves up to die or be severely injured. But I am suggesting that some now seem to think that ANY kind of physical contact with a perp is worse than killing said perp. I disagree with that attitude. They are in high risk jobs, so they should be willing to put themselves at risk to a certain point over killing or seriously harming citizens.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Oh yeah. Easy peasy. Just so simple. Good gawd, man.
Your lack of respect for cops is blatant so don't hide behind your lame "I'm not a cop hater or anything" because you are. Obviously. I mean, look how you painfully refute the evidence in the video that is so plain to nearly everyone else (Unsung excluded). The dog lunging at the cop was presented to you and you said, "No no. It never did". Then presented on this very forum in still frame... you say that was because it got shot. Come on, man. Things don't go forward when they are shot... they go backwards. To which, I might add, for all those 'use another tactic for the large dog' advocates... that first bullet had little effect on the dog. The next bullets were in response to the fact that the dog still seemed undeterred.
PJ Soul... I have usually read and enjoy the things you have written, but I respectfully put to you that you are way off base with this one. I'm sorry, but the life of a human trumps that of a dog. And the cops that we place in the streets to do the work we need them to do need a little more support and a little more understanding when they are forced to deal with things that place them at risk. This wasn't an error in judgement... this action was warranted. Don't paint every cop with the same brush that painted a few bad eggs.
i do enjoy your thoughts & your writing. here is were we are different. to me all life is equal (although i have zero no use for evil/monsters) to some degree of greatness. however, i like to believe humans are less than critters. but why would you think this way, chad? because us humans should know better & have compassion, understanding & we should have knowledge, kindness & things, yet we are deeper in negative-dark energy & have almost zero morals than any creature on this planet as we pollute & multiply spreading our cancers.
we have the power to change things for the positive but we destroy everything we touch. humans are the truest evil we have. in reality worms deserves to live moreso than humans. buddhism has shown me things.
(now go ahead, folks, light me up)
This doesn't deserve a light up, Chadwick. Human beings are something this planet could do without very easily! But we are what we are. Some humans are wonderful and do much good for everything on this planet.
I just place myself in the shoes of those officers and if I am one of them... I don't wish to be accosted by the dog and I would look to defend myself. Those guys are not just faceless entities... they go home to their loved ones too. They might even go home and listen to Pearl Jam and pet dogs of their own.
They deserve better than being shit on all the time which seems to be a more regular occurrence on here lately.
And by the way... I enjoy your contributions to this forum as well! Enjoy your 4th of July and be safe.
Let me clarify this statement, because obviously it was misinterpreted, judging from your paraphrasing:
'officers should run 20 meters when confronted by a bad man' and 'cops should look to tussle instead of drawing their weapon when confronted by a bad man' (take a bruise or scrape here and there).
What I was saying was that these days, it seems that a lot of cops will use a taser on someone instead of running 20 meters. In other words, they will taze someone rather than chase them a block, risking their life instead of being willing to give a bit of a chase like cops used to do. Also, some cops have been found to taze people who were evading skytrain fare and tried to run. Fucking $2.75. That is abuse of power and a misuse of their weapons. And yeah, I think that some cops have been known to shoot someone when the threat to their safety is minimal, i.e. the threat is that they might get a bruise. I am not sure what you mean when you say that I think cop's powers should be stripped down to bare bones, because that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that more and more I'm noticing a trend that suggests cops are no longer willing to put themselves at ANY kind of risk, sometimes at the expense of the lives of others. I'm not suggesting that they should offer themselves up to die or be severely injured. But I am suggesting that some now seem to think that ANY kind of physical contact with a perp is worse than killing said perp. I disagree with that attitude.
Fair enough. Although when the officers do run someone down... the conflict starts all over.
If people would just behave... these cops wouldn't have to make instant decisions that sometimes end up being costly one way or another.
I'd rather be bitten by a dog than shoot it. I would not rather have my face ripped off or my throat torn out by a dog than shoot it, but a bite I would risk. When the dog bites, obviously the other cops would have shot it immediately, before it could do more harm. Some don't agree with me, but I think that's reasonable risk for the cops considering the alternative. And I agree that the life of the dog is being undervalued by some.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
This doesn't deserve a light up, Chadwick. Human beings are something this planet could do without very easily! But we are what we are. Some humans are wonderful and do much good for everything on this planet.
I just place myself in the shoes of those officers and if I am one of them... I don't wish to be accosted by the dog and I would look to defend myself. Those guys are not just faceless entities... they go home to their loved ones too. They might even go home and listen to Pearl Jam and pet dogs of their own.
They deserve better than being shit on all the time which seems to be a more regular occurrence on here lately.
And by the way... I enjoy your contributions to this forum as well! Enjoy your 4th of July and be safe.
yeah i fully believe in self defense no matter human or critter. i think i trust mother nature more than most humans. in the end though, this dog keeper fouled up & that is that. that's my opinion
This doesn't deserve a light up, Chadwick. Human beings are something this planet could do without very easily! But we are what we are. Some humans are wonderful and do much good for everything on this planet.
I just place myself in the shoes of those officers and if I am one of them... I don't wish to be accosted by the dog and I would look to defend myself. Those guys are not just faceless entities... they go home to their loved ones too. They might even go home and listen to Pearl Jam and pet dogs of their own.
They deserve better than being shit on all the time which seems to be a more regular occurrence on here lately.
And by the way... I enjoy your contributions to this forum as well! Enjoy your 4th of July and be safe.
yeah i fully believe in self defense no matter human or critter. i think i trust mother nature more than most humans. in the end though, this dog keeper fouled up & that is that. that's my opinion
In that case, what would have been fair is for the cop to not have a gun and fight the dog off with his bare hands.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'd rather be bitten by a dog than shoot it. I would not rather have my face ripped off or my throat torn out by a dog than shoot it, but a bite I would risk. When the dog bites, obviously the other cops would have shot it immediately, before it could do more harm. Some don't agree with me, but I think that's reasonable risk for the cops considering the alternative. And I agree that the life of the dog is being undervalued by some.
this.
this is how human beings view nearly every beast on the planet as well as there own. a number of humans seem to only value human life or not even. sad stuff
I was going to say something earlier... but I stuck to the theme of the thread.
Grizzly bears generally laugh at pepper spray. One just did in Fernie, BC yesterday. I'm not saying Rottweilers do the same, but grizzlies generally use the pepper spray as a nice 'rub' for thighs and other meaty parts. It bothers them slightly... but does not deter them very often.
Could PJ and Thirty submit their final arguements for the judges to go over in this debate.
I don't think you guys/girls are going to see eye to eye on this one.
yer honer,I'll have to lend my support and judgement for the police officer some Dogs are bread to specifically fight for and protect their owners ...it's almost like the **mean and vicous" are bread into them**
and when you have a 100+ lb animal sizing you up that has a reputation for being able to tear up what/who ever it attacks ....well you see my point ?
Could PJ and Thirty submit their final arguements for the judges to go over in this debate.
I don't think you guys/girls are going to see eye to eye on this one.
Funny you should say this, because at first, I saw nothing wrong with what the cop did. Then I slowly evolved to on the fence. Now I cant fucking believe the cop shot off all those rounds. What he did looks extremely risky because after seeing the video a few times in slo-mo, I noticed people standing around in several areas, and judging from all the talking, yelling, and crowd reaction when the dog was shot, I'd guess the street was lined with people. He could've easily hit an innocent bystander. So, I've kinda changed my position I think, to "dumbass move."
But dumbass move by cop AND dumbass move by dog owner.
And if you look closely, there are other people holding their phones as if they are recording. I wonder if those videos/pics will surface.
I was going to say something earlier... but I stuck to the theme of the thread.
Grizzly bears generally laugh at pepper spray. One just did in Fernie, BC yesterday. I'm not saying Rottweilers do the same, but grizzlies generally use the pepper spray as a nice 'rub' for thighs and other meaty parts. It bothers them slightly... but does not deter them very often.
Yeah, as far as I know, bear spray is not meant for dropping bears. It's for slowing them down long enough to either try to run or get up a tree, or stab it through the eye with your hunting knife. I'd personally rather go into the back country with a bear bell than bear spray. That would probably be more effective in avoiding a bear attack (the idea of which freaks the shit out of me - I'm always kind of paranoid about bears when I'm camping or hiking). But we're talking about a medium sized dog here, not a grizzly bear ... if you sprayed it, it would definitely stop him long enough to throw a jacket over its head and subdue it. Better yet, use a taser. That would knock him down long enough to subdue him.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
i found a video of a rottweiler attacking a policeman. the policeman's partner tasers the rot, rot falls twitching & then gets up & runs away. this is a good example of what could be done, what may should have been done & how a dog may live another day. however, this dog here was very much hell bent on injuring (or worse) this man.
now i'd also like to say this here was a clean & solid tasering. not all tasers stick or stick half assed. also, maybe not all rots or other dogs like hairier breeds will be affected by a taser
again... the people taking care of this dog are completely negligentful & those folks almost maybe should be fined & thrown in jail a good weekend or a week. assholes
when you are taking care of a hazardous animal you are fully responsible if said animal hurts someone. if i am ever attacked by a pitbull, rottweiler or beagel i am going to wedge their mut up their fat asses once i am released from the hospital & they will be handing over large amounts of cash
rottweilers are way to badass to neglect like this
i found a video of a rottweiler attacking a policeman. the policeman's partner tasers the rot, rot falls twitching & then gets up & runs away. this is a good example of what could be done, what may should have been done & how a dog may live another day. however, this dog here was very much hell bent on injuring (or worse) this man.
now i'd also like to say this here was a clean & solid tasering. not all tasers stick or stick half assed. also, maybe not all rots or other dogs like hairier breeds will be affected by a taser
again... the people taking care of this dog are completely negligentful & those folks almost maybe should be fined & thrown in jail a good weekend or a week. assholes
when you are taking care of a hazardous animal you are fully responsible if said animal hurts someone. if i am ever attacked by a pitbull, rottweiler or beagel i am going to wedge their mut up their fat asses once i am released from the hospital & they will be handing over large amounts of cash
rottweilers are way to badass to neglect like this
That was insane chadwick. That officer handled it well.
I swore I wouldn't watch it, but I saw the video everywhere so I gave in. I regret watching it. No one should ever shoot a dog because it was naturally reacting to someone that looked violent. His owner was being taken away. Fuck that cop. I wish him hell. He did not act appropriately. The dog did not deserve to be shot. Yeah, the dog was being aggressive, but the cop should never have shot it.
~Carter~
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
I swore I wouldn't watch it, but I saw the video everywhere so I gave in. I regret watching it. No one should ever shoot a dog because it was naturally reacting to someone that looked violent. His owner was being taken away. Fuck that cop. I wish him hell. He did not act appropriately. The dog did not deserve to be shot. Yeah, the dog was being aggressive, but the cop should never have shot it.
For the counter to the statement, "Fuck that cop. I wish him hell. He did not act appropriately. The dog did not deserve to be shot. Yeah, the dog was being aggressive, but the cop should never have shot it."... please refer to pages 1-11.
I swore I wouldn't watch it, but I saw the video everywhere so I gave in. I regret watching it. No one should ever shoot a dog because it was naturally reacting to someone that looked violent. His owner was being taken away. Fuck that cop. I wish him hell. He did not act appropriately. The dog did not deserve to be shot. Yeah, the dog was being aggressive, but the cop should never have shot it.
For the counter to the statement, "Fuck that cop. I wish him hell. He did not act appropriately. The dog did not deserve to be shot. Yeah, the dog was being aggressive, but the cop should never have shot it."... please refer to pages 1-11.
How about you sum it up for me?
If the counter argument is the cop was attacked so he had the right to fight back, then yes, yes he did. However, he did not have to shoot the dog. I'm assuming its because the heat of the moment, understandable, but a responsible, professional cop would not kill the dog. I retract the statement "I wish him hell," but I still think he should be punished.
~Carter~
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
Whats sad is when there seems to be more outrage over a dog getting shot and killed than a person. There are unjustified shootings of citizens by the police all the time, but I can't remember so much outrage over them.
If the counter argument is the cop was attacked so he had the right to fight back, then yes, yes he did. However, he did not have to shoot the dog. I'm assuming its because the heat of the moment, understandable, but a responsible, professional cop would not kill the dog. I retract the statement "I wish him hell," but I still think he should be punished.
In short, this regrettable situation looks like this for me:
A. The Lead-Up (required for context)
1. Tense situation with multiple cars dealing with something.
2. Idiot owner past the 'other lookyloos' being obnoxious.
3. Police tell owner to get away. He becomes confrontational.
4. Officers approach. Owner puts dog in car, but not securely.
5. Owner gets cuffed and dog jumps out of car to defend owner.
B. The Confrontation
1. Dog is a 80 pound Rottweiler.
2. Rottweilers have a rich history in displaying very violent behaviours.
3. The dog is menacing and shows no sign of relenting- in fact, it begins to intensify its behaviour.
4. The cops are now dealing with the original situation, a handcuffed guy, and now a dog.
5. Approximately 10 seconds go by where the cops ward off any advances, but the advances, as mentioned, are not stopping.
6. The cop shoots the dog. The first bullet seems to do very little- when watching the video, I thought the cop missed.
7. The dog is shot dead. Ugly scene for sure.
C. Afterthoughts:
1. People stating that the cop should have been patient weren't the ones being confronted by the dog. It's easy to sit back and cast judgement... but not so easy to stand there with powerful jaws in range and active.
2. The police have policies regarding how to deal with an aggressive dog. Under no circumstances are police expected to get bit before they stop an attack on themselves with force. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
3. Uncuffing a handcuffed perpetrator is counter to police policy as well. Uncuffing the owner to deal with the dog was not an option.
4. We all wish for a different outcome, but too much blame is placed on the officer and too much criticism is thrown his way for how he dealt with the situation from people afforded the opportunity to watch video and reflect while not being confronted.
5. Lost in all of this is the fact that this didn't have to happen if the owner had not acted like a punk.
Whats sad is when there seems to be more outrage over a dog getting shot and killed than a person. There are unjustified shootings of citizens by the police all the time, but I can't remember so much outrage over them.
I really tend to not like cops but these people are fucking worse.
The video of the other angle clearly shows the dog lunging at the officer... and that is when it was shot.
The people uttering death threats to this officer are low.
Again... does the owner just get a pass? He initiated the whole scene and he never secured his dog inside his car. He's an idiot.
The dog was acting as it should: coming to the aid of its owner (obviously not knowing he is an idiot). The cop was acting as he should: protecting himself when he was in the line of duty. Negligently, in my mind, the owner pitted the dog against the cop.
If the counter argument is the cop was attacked so he had the right to fight back, then yes, yes he did. However, he did not have to shoot the dog. I'm assuming its because the heat of the moment, understandable, but a responsible, professional cop would not kill the dog. I retract the statement "I wish him hell," but I still think he should be punished.
In short, this regrettable situation looks like this for me:
A. The Lead-Up (required for context)
1. Tense situation with multiple cars dealing with something.
2. Idiot owner past the 'other lookyloos' being obnoxious.
3. Police tell owner to get away. He becomes confrontational.
4. Officers approach. Owner puts dog in car, but not securely.
5. Owner gets cuffed and dog jumps out of car to defend owner.
B. The Confrontation
1. Dog is a 80 pound Rottweiler.
2. Rottweilers have a rich history in displaying very violent behaviours.
3. The dog is menacing and shows no sign of relenting- in fact, it begins to intensify its behaviour.
4. The cops are now dealing with the original situation, a handcuffed guy, and now a dog.
5. Approximately 10 seconds go by where the cops ward off any advances, but the advances, as mentioned, are not stopping.
6. The cop shoots the dog. The first bullet seems to do very little- when watching the video, I thought the cop missed.
7. The dog is shot dead. Ugly scene for sure.
C. Afterthoughts:
1. People stating that the cop should have been patient weren't the ones being confronted by the dog. It's easy to sit back and cast judgement... but not so easy to stand there with powerful jaws in range and active.
2. The police have policies regarding how to deal with an aggressive dog. Under no circumstances are police expected to get bit before they stop an attack on themselves with force. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
3. Uncuffing a handcuffed perpetrator is counter to police policy as well. Uncuffing the owner to deal with the dog was not an option.
4. We all wish for a different outcome, but too much blame is placed on the officer and too much criticism is thrown his way for how he dealt with the situation from people afforded the opportunity to watch video and reflect while not being confronted.
5. Lost in all of this is the fact that this didn't have to happen if the owner had not acted like a punk.
All this I understand and agree, except why not taser the dog? How can none of them have a taser?
~Carter~
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
If the counter argument is the cop was attacked so he had the right to fight back, then yes, yes he did. However, he did not have to shoot the dog. I'm assuming its because the heat of the moment, understandable, but a responsible, professional cop would not kill the dog. I retract the statement "I wish him hell," but I still think he should be punished.
In short, this regrettable situation looks like this for me:
A. The Lead-Up (required for context)
1. Tense situation with multiple cars dealing with something.
2. Idiot owner past the 'other lookyloos' being obnoxious.
3. Police tell owner to get away. He becomes confrontational.
4. Officers approach. Owner puts dog in car, but not securely.
5. Owner gets cuffed and dog jumps out of car to defend owner.
B. The Confrontation
1. Dog is a 80 pound Rottweiler.
2. Rottweilers have a rich history in displaying very violent behaviours.
3. The dog is menacing and shows no sign of relenting- in fact, it begins to intensify its behaviour.
4. The cops are now dealing with the original situation, a handcuffed guy, and now a dog.
5. Approximately 10 seconds go by where the cops ward off any advances, but the advances, as mentioned, are not stopping.
6. The cop shoots the dog. The first bullet seems to do very little- when watching the video, I thought the cop missed.
7. The dog is shot dead. Ugly scene for sure.
C. Afterthoughts:
1. People stating that the cop should have been patient weren't the ones being confronted by the dog. It's easy to sit back and cast judgement... but not so easy to stand there with powerful jaws in range and active.
2. The police have policies regarding how to deal with an aggressive dog. Under no circumstances are police expected to get bit before they stop an attack on themselves with force. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
3. Uncuffing a handcuffed perpetrator is counter to police policy as well. Uncuffing the owner to deal with the dog was not an option.
4. We all wish for a different outcome, but too much blame is placed on the officer and too much criticism is thrown his way for how he dealt with the situation from people afforded the opportunity to watch video and reflect while not being confronted.
5. Lost in all of this is the fact that this didn't have to happen if the owner had not acted like a punk.
All this I understand and agree, except why not taser the dog? How can none of them have a taser?
I'm not sure, but again... we are debating tactics after the fact. The cop was being attacked by the dog. For me... if I'm the cop... I'm much more worried about my arm than I am the dog. Sorry for feeling this way, but I'd shoot the dog before having it maul me.
People are rushing to condemn this cop. It's not like he walked over to the car and shot the dog. He dealt with a tough situation in a way that seems to draw support from some and condemnation from others. If it's debatable... it can't be that wrong.
In short, this regrettable situation looks like this for me:
A. The Lead-Up (required for context)
1. Tense situation with multiple cars dealing with something.
2. Idiot owner past the 'other lookyloos' being obnoxious.
3. Police tell owner to get away. He becomes confrontational.
4. Officers approach. Owner puts dog in car, but not securely.
5. Owner gets cuffed and dog jumps out of car to defend owner.
B. The Confrontation
1. Dog is a 80 pound Rottweiler.
2. Rottweilers have a rich history in displaying very violent behaviours.
3. The dog is menacing and shows no sign of relenting- in fact, it begins to intensify its behaviour.
4. The cops are now dealing with the original situation, a handcuffed guy, and now a dog.
5. Approximately 10 seconds go by where the cops ward off any advances, but the advances, as mentioned, are not stopping.
6. The cop shoots the dog. The first bullet seems to do very little- when watching the video, I thought the cop missed.
7. The dog is shot dead. Ugly scene for sure.
C. Afterthoughts:
1. People stating that the cop should have been patient weren't the ones being confronted by the dog. It's easy to sit back and cast judgement... but not so easy to stand there with powerful jaws in range and active.
2. The police have policies regarding how to deal with an aggressive dog. Under no circumstances are police expected to get bit before they stop an attack on themselves with force. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
3. Uncuffing a handcuffed perpetrator is counter to police policy as well. Uncuffing the owner to deal with the dog was not an option.
4. We all wish for a different outcome, but too much blame is placed on the officer and too much criticism is thrown his way for how he dealt with the situation from people afforded the opportunity to watch video and reflect while not being confronted.
5. Lost in all of this is the fact that this didn't have to happen if the owner had not acted like a punk.
All this I understand and agree, except why not taser the dog? How can none of them have a taser?
I'm not sure, but again... we are debating tactics after the fact. The cop was being attacked by the dog. For me... if I'm the cop... I'm much more worried about my arm than I am the dog. Sorry for feeling this way, but I'd shoot the dog before having it maul me.
People are rushing to condemn this cop. It's not like he walked over to the car and shot the dog. He dealt with a tough situation in a way that seems to draw support from some and condemnation from others. If it's debatable... it can't be that wrong.
Again, I understand and agree. I'm just too much of a dog lover. :roll:
That dog was killed for trying to defend and save his owner. It's just too sad.
~Carter~
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
Read below for what the officers in the OP may have faced with no way of knowing:
NORTH SMITHFIELD, R.I. -- A pit bull-type dog that attacked five people Thursday was fatally shot as it turned to attack two North Smithfield police officers, the police said.
Capt. Glenn G. Lamoureux said the victims, who were not identified, were caring for the dog while the owner, who lives in the downstairs apartment, went on vacation.
One of the victims called 911 around 5:30 Thursday afternoon.
When officers arrived at 835 Eddie Dowling Highway (Route 146), they found the dog in mid-attack.
"The scene was quite chaotic," Lamoureux said. People were on the ground "screaming for help."
First, Lamoureux said, the officers tried dousing the dog with pepper spray. "That didn't help. They tried kicking the dog while it was biting someone; that didn't work. Then it turned for the officers, that's when they each shot one round," killing the dog, Lamoureux said.
The five, all adults, told police they had a gathering to celebrate the Fourth of July and the dog got agitated as several people started play-wrestling, so they put the dog in the house. The dog, Lamoureux said, apparently got out twice through a window, attacking the party-goers, each time acting more aggressively.
The dog's body was turned over to the state Department of Environmental Management for "disease testing," Lamoureux said, adding the department did not appear to have any previous complaints on the dog. The police are also looking into whether the dog was licensed and up-to-date on vaccines.
These breeds of dogs are very territorial and protective of their owners and are used in illegal dogfighting rings, which Michael Vick knows plenty about. They're also popular in hip-hop, gang and thug culture as being intimidating and protective, like a bodyguard, and are used as such. How were the officers in the OP supposed to know whether this was a dog trained to fight and be agressive when its owner is "accosted" by strangers or whether it was the type of dog that curls up with kittens and licks childrens faces, all the while making the call while its lunging for their face or forearm?
Comments
Oh yeah. Easy peasy. Just so simple. Good gawd, man.
Your lack of respect for cops is blatant so don't hide behind your lame "I'm not a cop hater or anything" because you are. Obviously. I mean, look how you painfully refute the evidence in the video that is so plain to nearly everyone else (Unsung excluded). The dog lunging at the cop was presented to you and you said, "No no. It never did". Then presented on this very forum in still frame... you say that was because it got shot. Come on, man. Things don't go forward when they are shot... they go backwards. To which, I might add, for all those 'use another tactic for the large dog' advocates... that first bullet had little effect on the dog. The next bullets were in response to the fact that the dog still seemed undeterred.
PJ Soul... I have usually read and enjoy the things you have written, but I respectfully put to you that you are way off base with this one. I'm sorry, but the life of a human trumps that of a dog. And the cops that we place in the streets to do the work we need them to do need a little more support and a little more understanding when they are forced to deal with things that place them at risk. This wasn't an error in judgement... this action was warranted. Don't paint every cop with the same brush that painted a few bad eggs.
i do enjoy your thoughts & your writing. here is were we are different. to me all life is equal (although i have zero no use for evil/monsters) to some degree of greatness. however, i like to believe humans are less than critters. but why would you think this way, chad? because us humans should know better & have compassion, understanding & we should have knowledge, kindness & things, yet we are deeper in negative-dark energy & have almost zero morals than any creature on this planet as we pollute & multiply spreading our cancers.
we have the power to change things for the positive but we destroy everything we touch. humans are the truest evil we have. in reality worms deserves to live moreso than humans. buddhism has shown me things.
(now go ahead, folks, light me up)
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I know the life of a human trumps that of a dog. But no human life was threatened here.
Unsung and I have an opinion... and then "everyone else" (so you and who? maybe 2 other people?) have another one. So that makes you right?? I disagree.
Anyway, no point at all in arguing the issue further. We have both made out views very clear, and have explained them thoroughly. I have shown you more respect that you have me, since I have not called you a liar about your own feelings about certain issues, so I'll give myself a point on that one, but otherwise, this is simply a discussion that is going nowhere, since there is no more info either of us can put out there to back up our positions.
You can have a point on that one if you wish, but I think if you are honest with yourself... or at least read back through your posts... you have expressed many comments that show very little respect for the extremely difficult job police officers do. And I did extend some respect when I said aside form this issue, I appreciate your posts.
And... if we're looking to score points... I guess I'll give myself a few seeing as you never bothered to clarify your post where you described stripping the powers of cops to what I would call 'bare bones'. The one where you said: 'officers should run 20 meters when confronted by a bad man' and 'cops should look to tussle instead of drawing their weapon when confronted by a bad man' (take a bruise or scrape here and there).
Hey... you are not a bad person. I am not saying this. The only thing I have really said is that cops are in a demanding position. There are bad ones- of course- but there are good ones too that have performed admirably. If we place them in the position where we expect them to maintain order at their own risk... then we owe them the opportunity to defend themselves when they are threatened. A cop shouldn't have had to get bit to defend themselves.
'officers should run 20 meters when confronted by a bad man' and 'cops should look to tussle instead of drawing their weapon when confronted by a bad man' (take a bruise or scrape here and there).
What I was saying was that these days, it seems that a lot of cops will use a taser on someone instead of running 20 meters. In other words, they will taze someone rather than chase them a block or grab them and get them on the ground, possibly risking their life instead of being willing to give a bit of a chase or a tackle like cops used to do. Also, some cops have been found to taze people who were evading skytrain fare and tried to run. Fucking $2.75. That is abuse of power and a misuse of their weapons. And yeah, I think that some cops have been known to shoot someone when the threat to their safety is minimal, i.e. the threat is that they might get a bruise. I am not sure what you mean when you say that I think cop's powers should be stripped down to bare bones, because that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that more and more I'm noticing a trend that suggests cops are no longer willing to put themselves at ANY kind of risk, sometimes at the expense of the lives of others. I'm not suggesting that they should offer themselves up to die or be severely injured. But I am suggesting that some now seem to think that ANY kind of physical contact with a perp is worse than killing said perp. I disagree with that attitude. They are in high risk jobs, so they should be willing to put themselves at risk to a certain point over killing or seriously harming citizens.
This doesn't deserve a light up, Chadwick. Human beings are something this planet could do without very easily! But we are what we are. Some humans are wonderful and do much good for everything on this planet.
I just place myself in the shoes of those officers and if I am one of them... I don't wish to be accosted by the dog and I would look to defend myself. Those guys are not just faceless entities... they go home to their loved ones too. They might even go home and listen to Pearl Jam and pet dogs of their own.
They deserve better than being shit on all the time which seems to be a more regular occurrence on here lately.
And by the way... I enjoy your contributions to this forum as well! Enjoy your 4th of July and be safe.
Fair enough. Although when the officers do run someone down... the conflict starts all over.
If people would just behave... these cops wouldn't have to make instant decisions that sometimes end up being costly one way or another.
Have a good day.
yeah i fully believe in self defense no matter human or critter. i think i trust mother nature more than most humans. in the end though, this dog keeper fouled up & that is that. that's my opinion
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
this is how human beings view nearly every beast on the planet as well as there own. a number of humans seem to only value human life or not even. sad stuff
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Grizzly bears generally laugh at pepper spray. One just did in Fernie, BC yesterday. I'm not saying Rottweilers do the same, but grizzlies generally use the pepper spray as a nice 'rub' for thighs and other meaty parts. It bothers them slightly... but does not deter them very often.
I don't think you guys/girls are going to see eye to eye on this one.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
yer honer,I'll have to lend my support and judgement for the police officer
and when you have a 100+ lb animal sizing you up that has a reputation for being able to tear up what/who ever it attacks ....well you see my point ?
Godfather.
Funny you should say this, because at first, I saw nothing wrong with what the cop did. Then I slowly evolved to on the fence. Now I cant fucking believe the cop shot off all those rounds. What he did looks extremely risky because after seeing the video a few times in slo-mo, I noticed people standing around in several areas, and judging from all the talking, yelling, and crowd reaction when the dog was shot, I'd guess the street was lined with people. He could've easily hit an innocent bystander. So, I've kinda changed my position I think, to "dumbass move."
But dumbass move by cop AND dumbass move by dog owner.
And if you look closely, there are other people holding their phones as if they are recording. I wonder if those videos/pics will surface.
It's all been said. People can choose to sit wherever they wish on this one.
i found a video of a rottweiler attacking a policeman. the policeman's partner tasers the rot, rot falls twitching & then gets up & runs away. this is a good example of what could be done, what may should have been done & how a dog may live another day. however, this dog here was very much hell bent on injuring (or worse) this man.
now i'd also like to say this here was a clean & solid tasering. not all tasers stick or stick half assed. also, maybe not all rots or other dogs like hairier breeds will be affected by a taser
again... the people taking care of this dog are completely negligentful & those folks almost maybe should be fined & thrown in jail a good weekend or a week. assholes
when you are taking care of a hazardous animal you are fully responsible if said animal hurts someone. if i am ever attacked by a pitbull, rottweiler or beagel i am going to wedge their mut up their fat asses once i am released from the hospital & they will be handing over large amounts of cash
rottweilers are way to badass to neglect like this
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
That was insane chadwick. That officer handled it well.
You are certainly a feisty one PJsoul, I like that :P
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
For the counter to the statement, "Fuck that cop. I wish him hell. He did not act appropriately. The dog did not deserve to be shot. Yeah, the dog was being aggressive, but the cop should never have shot it."... please refer to pages 1-11.
How about you sum it up for me?
If the counter argument is the cop was attacked so he had the right to fight back, then yes, yes he did. However, he did not have to shoot the dog. I'm assuming its because the heat of the moment, understandable, but a responsible, professional cop would not kill the dog. I retract the statement "I wish him hell," but I still think he should be punished.
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1390610
I really tend to not like cops but these people are fucking worse.
In short, this regrettable situation looks like this for me:
A. The Lead-Up (required for context)
1. Tense situation with multiple cars dealing with something.
2. Idiot owner past the 'other lookyloos' being obnoxious.
3. Police tell owner to get away. He becomes confrontational.
4. Officers approach. Owner puts dog in car, but not securely.
5. Owner gets cuffed and dog jumps out of car to defend owner.
B. The Confrontation
1. Dog is a 80 pound Rottweiler.
2. Rottweilers have a rich history in displaying very violent behaviours.
3. The dog is menacing and shows no sign of relenting- in fact, it begins to intensify its behaviour.
4. The cops are now dealing with the original situation, a handcuffed guy, and now a dog.
5. Approximately 10 seconds go by where the cops ward off any advances, but the advances, as mentioned, are not stopping.
6. The cop shoots the dog. The first bullet seems to do very little- when watching the video, I thought the cop missed.
7. The dog is shot dead. Ugly scene for sure.
C. Afterthoughts:
1. People stating that the cop should have been patient weren't the ones being confronted by the dog. It's easy to sit back and cast judgement... but not so easy to stand there with powerful jaws in range and active.
2. The police have policies regarding how to deal with an aggressive dog. Under no circumstances are police expected to get bit before they stop an attack on themselves with force. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
3. Uncuffing a handcuffed perpetrator is counter to police policy as well. Uncuffing the owner to deal with the dog was not an option.
4. We all wish for a different outcome, but too much blame is placed on the officer and too much criticism is thrown his way for how he dealt with the situation from people afforded the opportunity to watch video and reflect while not being confronted.
5. Lost in all of this is the fact that this didn't have to happen if the owner had not acted like a punk.
The video of the other angle clearly shows the dog lunging at the officer... and that is when it was shot.
The people uttering death threats to this officer are low.
Again... does the owner just get a pass? He initiated the whole scene and he never secured his dog inside his car. He's an idiot.
The dog was acting as it should: coming to the aid of its owner (obviously not knowing he is an idiot). The cop was acting as he should: protecting himself when he was in the line of duty. Negligently, in my mind, the owner pitted the dog against the cop.
All this I understand and agree, except why not taser the dog? How can none of them have a taser?
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
I'm not sure, but again... we are debating tactics after the fact. The cop was being attacked by the dog. For me... if I'm the cop... I'm much more worried about my arm than I am the dog. Sorry for feeling this way, but I'd shoot the dog before having it maul me.
People are rushing to condemn this cop. It's not like he walked over to the car and shot the dog. He dealt with a tough situation in a way that seems to draw support from some and condemnation from others. If it's debatable... it can't be that wrong.
Again, I understand and agree. I'm just too much of a dog lover. :roll:
That dog was killed for trying to defend and save his owner. It's just too sad.
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
NORTH SMITHFIELD, R.I. -- A pit bull-type dog that attacked five people Thursday was fatally shot as it turned to attack two North Smithfield police officers, the police said.
Capt. Glenn G. Lamoureux said the victims, who were not identified, were caring for the dog while the owner, who lives in the downstairs apartment, went on vacation.
One of the victims called 911 around 5:30 Thursday afternoon.
When officers arrived at 835 Eddie Dowling Highway (Route 146), they found the dog in mid-attack.
"The scene was quite chaotic," Lamoureux said. People were on the ground "screaming for help."
First, Lamoureux said, the officers tried dousing the dog with pepper spray. "That didn't help. They tried kicking the dog while it was biting someone; that didn't work. Then it turned for the officers, that's when they each shot one round," killing the dog, Lamoureux said.
The five, all adults, told police they had a gathering to celebrate the Fourth of July and the dog got agitated as several people started play-wrestling, so they put the dog in the house. The dog, Lamoureux said, apparently got out twice through a window, attacking the party-goers, each time acting more aggressively.
The dog's body was turned over to the state Department of Environmental Management for "disease testing," Lamoureux said, adding the department did not appear to have any previous complaints on the dog. The police are also looking into whether the dog was licensed and up-to-date on vaccines.
No criminal charges have been filed.
http://www.providencejournal.com/breaki ... cks.ece#15
These breeds of dogs are very territorial and protective of their owners and are used in illegal dogfighting rings, which Michael Vick knows plenty about. They're also popular in hip-hop, gang and thug culture as being intimidating and protective, like a bodyguard, and are used as such. How were the officers in the OP supposed to know whether this was a dog trained to fight and be agressive when its owner is "accosted" by strangers or whether it was the type of dog that curls up with kittens and licks childrens faces, all the while making the call while its lunging for their face or forearm?
Peace.
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