Good enough reason to lock him up and kill his dog. And yeah they could have allowed him to secure it. Hopefully people get fired at a minimum.
What I don't get is why he was willing to be arrested and leave the dog in the car. Was it going to just stay there and wait for his release? He is to blame as well but this screams abuse of power.
I can assure you that a charging dog is grounds for an officer to discharge his firearm.
I'm an animal lover (and a vegetarian to boot) but there's not a court that won't allow an officer to defend him or herself.
I didn't watch the video (I've reviewed my own officers' squad cams of shooting dogs - you're right, it isn't fun), so I won't comment on whether he was wrongfully arrested or not. But understand, a charging dog, rightly or wrongly, is almost always grounds for an officer to defend him or herself. So if you're looking for an "abuse of power" angle, the dog angle isn't it.
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Wow, this is TERRIBLE. Now I can fully understand WHY this cop shot the dog, the dog jumped out of the car and kind of lunged at the cops to protect his owner....I get it. But other measures could have been taken before shooting this poor dog multiple times, why not mace the dog? Kick him 2-3 times? hit him with the baton? Shoot him in the thigh?....but to shoot that dog that many times is criminal,. This cop was just itching to shoot something......FIRE THIS ASSHOLE.
I can only imagine the outrage had the dog been kicked or beaten multiple times. Plus the potential injuries he could've caused.
I dunno - I figure when a dog that size (an ANGRY one at that) is coming at you, self-preservation is the first instinct.
I don't blame the dog one iota. I don't blame the officer(s) either - and think calling him an asshole is somewhat over the top - as is calling for him to be fired.
Given what I've read so far, I blame the dude who had no business being where he was, doing what he was.
Sometimes it's best to use your head, shut the fuck up and let others do what they need to, especially in such a tense situation. Make your "point" another time.
It's totally on the dog owner the dog 's death could of been prevented by him this guys is a total idiot no one else to blame ....man when will common sense make a comeback :!:
I dunno - I figure when a dog that size (an ANGRY one at that) is coming at you, self-preservation is the first instinct.
I don't blame the dog one iota. I don't blame the officer(s) either - and think calling him an asshole is somewhat over the top - as is calling for him to be fired.
Given what I've read so far, I blame the dude who had no business being where he was, doing what he was.
Sometimes it's best to use your head, shut the fuck up and let others do what they need to, especially in such a tense situation. Make your "point" another time.
...
Hey...
I agree with everything you said. If the dog was a Chichuahua or a Shiz-Tsu or something... okay, don't shoot. But a Rotweiller, Doberman, German Sheperd, Pit Bull, etc... like a dog dog... it becomes a completely different situation with a completely different set of circumstances.
The dog should never have been placed in that situation. I feel really bad... for the dog. The guy needs to own up to his poor decision making and stop blaming others for his poor judgement.
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Oh my GOD. I don't think that cop had any good reason to kill that dog at all. They should have let the owner calm it down, like he was trying to do. That's really upsetting. :( And that he let the poor thing thrash around like that in horrible pain is also disgusting. He didn't even have the decency to shoot it in the head. Jesus. That poor dog owner. Yes, he should have made it so the dog couldn't get out of the car, but I doubt he knew that the dog would go that far out of its way to get out, since it probably never had before. I don't think the owner is a huge idiot. Yes, he made a mistake, but I don't think he was being irresponsible. And why were the cops handcuffing him anyway??! That shouldn't have happened either. I saw no reason at all for them to be handcuffing that guy. He was obviously no danger to himself or other, or a flight risk. I actually thought it was good judgment that he put the dog in the car at all... It's just too bad he underestimated his dog's drive to protect him.
That cop totally overreacted IMO. And hello? Ever heard of fucking backing up and using a fucking taser??! And if he didn't have one on him, then fucking backing up and getting one?! Because the dogs was not lunging. And it was walking away when they shot it. I think some are exaggerating the threat that the dog was presenting. Killing the dog (inhumanely) should NOT be the FIRST course of action unless the dog is seriously threatening someone's safety, and I don't think it was in this case. I agree that if the dog had been more threatening then okay, but what I saw was that the cop just had to back away from it and let the owner stand between the dog and the cops, which he was TRYING to do, and the cops held him back for no good reason at all. Letting the owner step up like he was trying to would have been a very easy solution! But no... for a lot of cops, the best method seems to be "shoot first, think later." And yes, in this case he did have time to think. If he couldn't think up that much in that amount of time, then he shouldn't be a cop, since next time it could be a 12 year old with a fucking water gun.
Jesus, I wish I hadn't watched that.
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Could the dog have been taken down with a taser or other non-lethal means? Or was there no time? I am flying blind because I know I will be haunted if I watch the clip.
Don't watch it. It's bothered me since yesterday.
They had time, they knew the dog was there. They could have done many other things before shooting it.
And they could have allowed the guy to secure it, he was willingly standing there in the first place and could have grabbed a gun when he first put the dog it the car. But guess what, he didn't. He did what the police masters told him to.
It sounds to me as if you would have preferred the cop to get mauled instead of the dog getting shot. The dog lunged at them and circled them multiple times and showed no sign of easing of its advances.
The owner should have had its dog confined in the car knowing full well that the cops were advancing towards him. This guy tempted fate daring the cops to deal with him and then with his dog.
And, in this case, he never did get a gun... but cops have a protocol to deal with people: once in cuffs you are not released from cuffs until back at the station. If... IF... they had released the guy and the scenario I painted for you DID happen... bad on them.
Get real, man. Seriously.
Stop being the apologist of the police like they are heroes or something. They used excessive force. Period. The dog never circled one time. It ran up to its' master and stopped, it didn't even bark. Stop making excuses for these lowlifes.
And yeah I hope these pigs lose everything. Fucking all.
Oh my GOD. I don't think that cop had any good reason to kill that dog at all. They should have let the owner calm it down, like he was trying to do. That's really upsetting. :( And that he let the poor thing thrash around like that in horrible pain is also disgusting. He didn't even have the decency to shoot it in the head. Jesus. That poor dog owner. Yes, he should have made it so the dog couldn't get out of the car, but I doubt he knew that the dog would go that far out of its way to get out, since it probably never had before. I don't think the owner is a huge idiot. Yes, he made a mistake, but I don't think he was being irresponsible. And why were the cops handcuffing him anyway??! That shouldn't have happened either. I saw no reason at all for them to be handcuffing that guy. He was obviously no danger to himself or other, or a flight risk. I actually thought it was good judgment that he put the dog in the car at all... It's just too bad he underestimated his dog's drive to protect him.
That cop totally overreacted IMO. And hello? Ever heard of fucking backing up and using a fucking taser??! And if he didn't have one on him, then fucking backing up and getting one?! Because the dogs was not lunging. And it was walking away when they shot it. I think some are exaggerating the threat that the dog was presenting. Killing the dog (inhumanely) should NOT be the FIRST course of action unless the dog is seriously threatening someone's safety, and I don't think it was in this case. I agree that if the dog had been more threatening then okay, but what I saw was that the cop just had to back away from it and let the owner stand between the dog and the cops, which he was TRYING to do, and the cops held him back for no good reason at all. Letting the owner step up like he was trying to would have been a very easy solution! But no... for a lot of cops, the best method seems to be "shoot first, think later." And yes, in this case he did have time to think. If he couldn't think up that much in that amount of time, then he shouldn't be a cop, since next time it could be a 12 year old with a fucking water gun.
Jesus, I wish I hadn't watched that.
Yeah cause when the breed of dog that kills the most people each year is lunging after you, you go ahead and take the time to just turn your back and go get a taser from the local Walmart.
They had time, they knew the dog was there. They could have done many other things before shooting it.
And they could have allowed the guy to secure it, he was willingly standing there in the first place and could have grabbed a gun when he first put the dog it the car. But guess what, he didn't. He did what the police masters told him to.
It sounds to me as if you would have preferred the cop to get mauled instead of the dog getting shot. The dog lunged at them and circled them multiple times and showed no sign of easing of its advances.
The owner should have had its dog confined in the car knowing full well that the cops were advancing towards him. This guy tempted fate daring the cops to deal with him and then with his dog.
And, in this case, he never did get a gun... but cops have a protocol to deal with people: once in cuffs you are not released from cuffs until back at the station. If... IF... they had released the guy and the scenario I painted for you DID happen... bad on them.
Get real, man. Seriously.
Stop being the apologist of the police like they are heroes or something. They used excessive force. Period. The dog never circled one time. It ran up to its' master and stopped, it didn't even bark. Stop making excuses for these lowlifes.
And yeah I hope these pigs lose everything. Fucking all.
You just crossed the line calling them pigs. And I don't think you actually watched the video...didn't bark? It was barking from they car. That idiot should have never put his dog in that situation.
It sounds to me as if you would have preferred the cop to get mauled instead of the dog getting shot. The dog lunged at them and circled them multiple times and showed no sign of easing of its advances.
The owner should have had its dog confined in the car knowing full well that the cops were advancing towards him. This guy tempted fate daring the cops to deal with him and then with his dog.
And, in this case, he never did get a gun... but cops have a protocol to deal with people: once in cuffs you are not released from cuffs until back at the station. If... IF... they had released the guy and the scenario I painted for you DID happen... bad on them.
Get real, man. Seriously.
Stop being the apologist of the police like they are heroes or something. They used excessive force. Period. The dog never circled one time. It ran up to its' master and stopped, it didn't even bark. Stop making excuses for these lowlifes.
And yeah I hope these pigs lose everything. Fucking all.
You just crossed the line calling them pigs. And I don't think you actually watched the video...didn't bark? It was barking from they car. That idiot should have never put his dog in that situation.
I didn't want to be the first one to respond to such a remark. And given what he has said... I don't think he watched the video either. If a person cannot see the aggression in the dog towards the officers... then they clearly are looking from the most biased perspective one might possibly have. Of course, given he used the term 'pigs' to describe the officers... I guess we already knew this.
There are no rules of engagement with a fucking dog- they didn't need to get bit before protecting themselves. It was clearly acting aggressively, clearly increasing in its state of agitation, and the officers reacted most appropriately. The detainment of the guy might be questionable, but the force used on the dog was warranted. I'm not deliberately trying to provoke Unsung into an argument because there really isn't one. To be honest... I am stunned that people feel the cops should have tried something else in their bag of tricks to stop the advance of a dog capable of inflicting great harm.
Oh my GOD. I don't think that cop had any good reason to kill that dog at all. They should have let the owner calm it down, like he was trying to do. That's really upsetting. :( And that he let the poor thing thrash around like that in horrible pain is also disgusting. He didn't even have the decency to shoot it in the head. Jesus. That poor dog owner. Yes, he should have made it so the dog couldn't get out of the car, but I doubt he knew that the dog would go that far out of its way to get out, since it probably never had before. I don't think the owner is a huge idiot. Yes, he made a mistake, but I don't think he was being irresponsible. And why were the cops handcuffing him anyway??! That shouldn't have happened either. I saw no reason at all for them to be handcuffing that guy. He was obviously no danger to himself or other, or a flight risk. I actually thought it was good judgment that he put the dog in the car at all... It's just too bad he underestimated his dog's drive to protect him.
That cop totally overreacted IMO. And hello? Ever heard of fucking backing up and using a fucking taser??! And if he didn't have one on him, then fucking backing up and getting one?! Because the dogs was not lunging. And it was walking away when they shot it. I think some are exaggerating the threat that the dog was presenting. Killing the dog (inhumanely) should NOT be the FIRST course of action unless the dog is seriously threatening someone's safety, and I don't think it was in this case. I agree that if the dog had been more threatening then okay, but what I saw was that the cop just had to back away from it and let the owner stand between the dog and the cops, which he was TRYING to do, and the cops held him back for no good reason at all. Letting the owner step up like he was trying to would have been a very easy solution! But no... for a lot of cops, the best method seems to be "shoot first, think later." And yes, in this case he did have time to think. If he couldn't think up that much in that amount of time, then he shouldn't be a cop, since next time it could be a 12 year old with a fucking water gun.
Jesus, I wish I hadn't watched that.
Yeah cause when the breed of dog that kills the most people each year is lunging after you, you go ahead and take the time to just turn your back and go get a taser from the local Walmart.
Wtf are you talking about? If they didn't have one on him it would be in the car. And who said anything about turning his back? And there are six or more cops there. And the dog wasn't lunging. It was actually retreating when it got shot. Oh yeah, but other than that you make a really good point. :roll:
I am really surprised that so many of you think that cop's actions were justified after watching the video. They didn't began try taking a step back to see what happened. Thatan should not have been cuffed in the first place - just that is wrong. And that dog was not posing enough of a threat to justify killing it like that. Bottom line, the cops were making an arrest that wasn't even legal, and caused the man'sdog to bwcome justifiably upset, and then killed the dog before making any effort to calm it down or to even take a step back to see what it was going to do. All wrong.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Stop being the apologist of the police like they are heroes or something. They used excessive force. Period. The dog never circled one time. It ran up to its' master and stopped, it didn't even bark. Stop making excuses for these lowlifes.
And yeah I hope these pigs lose everything. Fucking all.
You just crossed the line calling them pigs. And I don't think you actually watched the video...didn't bark? It was barking from they car. That idiot should have never put his dog in that situation.
I didn't want to be the first one to respond to such a remark. And given what he has said... I don't think he watched the video either. If a person cannot see the aggression in the dog towards the officers... then they clearly are looking from the most biased perspective one might possibly have. Of course, given he used the term 'pigs' to describe the officers... I guess we already knew this.
There are no rules of engagement with a fucking dog- they didn't need to get bit before protecting themselves. It was clearly acting aggressively, clearly increasing in its state of agitation, and the officers reacted most appropriately. The detainment of the guy might be questionable, but the force used on the dog was warranted. I'm not deliberately trying to provoke Unsung into an argument because there really isn't one. To be honest... I am stunned that people feel the cops should have tried something else in their bag of tricks to stop the advance of a dog capable of inflicting great harm.
Lowlifes? Yikes.
And I am stunned that you think that dog's aggression was serious enough to warrant shooting it before trying any thing else. Next time it will be an overreaction to a person's mild aggresion that could be controlled in another way, just like we have already seen over and over. I think you are the one viewing it in the most biased way possible if you think that level of aggression warrants immediate execution. I also think you are undervaluing the life of the dog. Big time. And the detainment was "maybe questionable"?? That detainment was a clear violation of that man's rights.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Wtf are you talking about? If they didn't have one on him it would be in the car. And who said anything about turning his back? And there are six or more cops there. And the dog wasn't lunging. It was actually retreating when it got shot. Oh yeah, but other than that you make a really good point. :roll:
I am really surprised that so many of you think that cop's actions were justified after watching the video. They didn't began try taking a step back to see what happened. Thatan should not have been cuffed in the first place - just that is wrong. And that dog was not posing enough of a threat to justify killing it like that. Bottom line, the cops were making an arrest that wasn't even legal, and caused the man'sdog to bwcome justifiably upset, and then killed the dog before making any effort to calm it down or to even take a step back to see what it was going to do. All wrong.
It's like we are watching 2 different videos.
The ironic thing for me is I was having a discussion the other day how I have lost all respect for police officers based on the ones I've dealt with in the past several years, and here inn defending one.
PJsoul - how can you tell that the detainment was a clear violation of that guys rights from that video?
You can't even hear anything that is said, not can you see what happened before the video started.
Because it's obvious. The cops were completely uninterested in the guy, and then suddenly had him in handcuffs without any kind of aggression or interference on his part. I am comfortable making the assumption. Cops pull that shit on people filming them all the time. In think it's fair to surmise given the behaviour of the cops at the beginning, which was total disinterest, and then what looked like a slow realization of the filming, and then detainment without a conversation or questioning for aan who showed no resistance, aggression, or anger. You don't think that stinks??
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
PJsoul - how can you tell that the detainment was a clear violation of that guys rights from that video?
You can't even hear anything that is said, not can you see what happened before the video started.
Because it's obvious. The cops were completely uninterested in the guy, and then suddenly had him in handcuffs without any kind of aggression or interference on his part. I am comfortable making the assumption. Cops pull that shit on people filming them all the time. In think it's fair to surmise given the behaviour of the cops at the beginning, which was total disinterest, and then what looked like a slow realization of the filming, and then detainment without a conversation or questioning for aan who showed no resistance, aggression, or anger. You don't think that stinks??
You could very well be right. But, they aren't "disinterested" at first, they are doing their job, standing their post until the armed robbers are apprehended. Once that is done, they walk over to the guy. Could just be about priorities at that moment.
I just don't think the video gives enough info to know 100%. It is certainly cause for investigation though.
i would be throughly shocked a taser could stop a rottweiler. it aint gonna happen. a large number of men are very capable of taking a taser from a cop & placing it up the lawman's ass for him. a rottweiler would most probably eat a taser & then hump your leg
You just crossed the line calling them pigs. And I don't think you actually watched the video...didn't bark? It was barking from they car. That idiot should have never put his dog in that situation.
The dog was barking when it was in the car, it wasn't when it got out. It was trying to get to its' master and if you knew dog behavior you'd know they show aggression and then stop short as this one did. They do that to see if the target would back off, which the cop didn't.
And yeah they are pigs. I'll show them respect when they respect others. Otherwise they are nothing more than thugs in a costume, armed ones that believe they are above the law. The shooter has a history of abuse so I'm thinking he's the act first never think type of cop. Those are the most dangerous.
In the end they are supposed to serve and protect, but even an animal did a better job at that.
Fwiw, my stepfather was a K9 officer for over twenty years so I've been around it my entire life. My opinions are based off first hand information.
Fwiw, my stepfather was a K9 officer for over twenty years so I've been around it my entire life. My opinions are based off first hand information.
Your opinion that cops are pigs is based off first-hand information? What does this even mean?
This place is beginning to get a little ridiculous. Whether it's Ed Snowden or attacking Bush or attacking Obama or gun control, the same viewpoints get reflexively put out from each side on the same issue from typically the same people.
Good grief, is anyone interested in not jumping to conclusions on a controversial issue? Is it possible to give some critical evaluation before we fire off things like "cops are pigs" or ardently defend that the dog deserved to die or that Ed Snowden is the second coming of Christ or that the government gets a free pass for everything?
Sorry, this is perhaps off-topic, but there are way too many emotional and ill-conceived things being posted around here lately.
This goes for both sides: if people are fine to conclude that all cops are pigs because their dad was one (that sounds more like an issue for a different forum) or that every cop who wears a badge is just doing his or her job, regardless of the consequences, then so be it. But in the interest of civility, keep it respectful. In the interest of doing justice to whatever claim you think you're making, at least rationalize it out with more than just 15 second video clips, off the cuff anecdotes or broad unprovable generalizations.
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a human has to show a weapon to be shot at by police. If police shot every human that charged at them a little - we would have a lot of dead people because they made poor decisions.
I can't watch the video - but was the dog still 'charging' at them after the first shot? second shot? third? i doubt it.
I believe the same with any group of people, that most of them are good people, but in this situation the police officer made a terrible error in judgement. If he is that trigger happy he should not be working in a field that allows him to carry a weapon.
I am guessing (purely) that there are thousands of situations like this one that are handled without any shots fired on a daily basis. We will likely never hear about those. They aren't news.
Lastly I will say that the owner of the dog put his dog in a very bad situation and needs to burden much of the blame. When my dogs act aggressively towards anything while we are on a walk i quickly turn and head the other way.
And I am stunned that you think that dog's aggression was serious enough to warrant shooting it before trying any thing else. Next time it will be an overreaction to a person's mild aggresion that could be controlled in another way, just like we have already seen over and over. I think you are the one viewing it in the most biased way possible if you think that level of aggression warrants immediate execution. I also think you are undervaluing the life of the dog. Big time. And the detainment was "maybe questionable"?? That detainment was a clear violation of that man's rights.
Firstly... as for the suggestions the cop critics suggest as better alternatives... I haven't heard a realistic one yet. The dog was not about to stop its advances. It had lunged 4-5 times. The one cop had tried to grab its leash. The cops as a unit thwarted the dog's advances each time before finally shooting it. If I remember the video correctly... the first time the dog is shot you cannot even tell- the dog hardly flinches (I thought the cop missed!). Then there was a slight pause... and then the cop shot it multiple times. I guess what I am saying is that Chadwick is not high when he suggests the taser would be grabbed by the Rottweiler and stuffed up the cop's ass. They had no alternative.
Secondly... I value the life and safety of a human being much more than a dog. Yes... I am guilty of this. I get the fact that you love dogs, but get serious: do you actually think the cops, in a tense situation demanding 4 or 5 of their cars on a blocked off street, are expected to do a dance with an aggressive dog trying to protect its owner? And do you actually think the cops should have waited for the dog to bite one of them, receive instructions from HQ to fire (as per some peacekeeping military protocol), and then protect themselves? Geezuz, man. Come home from the fair.
We can debate the detainment- but nobody knows the whole story from the video that was shot beside the car blaring its music- so that is pointless. You don't know that it was a clear violation of that man's rights. This forum frowns on people for rushing to snap judgements and this is exactly what you are doing when you make such a comment. What do we know from the video? The guy was being blatantly obnoxious in the face of law officers trying to do their job. I hope I am raising my children to exercise a little more common sense. He was essentially looking for trouble... and he found it.
Fwiw, my stepfather was a K9 officer for over twenty years so I've been around it my entire life. My opinions are based off first hand information.
Your opinion that cops are pigs is based off first-hand information? What does this even mean?
Poor relations with his stepfather? Fair enough then!
As for the rest of your post... you have tried to offer some levity. it does seem that this community- and I'm guilty as anyone- is charged for conflict. I haven't been a lifer on here, but I can pretty safely predict who I will be in opposition to on a routine basis when commenting towards some issues.
Van... I get a chuckle when you post. I picture you behind your mahogany desk, loading your attaché with critical documents necessary for trial, and squeezing in one more post before ducking out heading to court. Maybe this board serves as a warm-up for you dealing with those ridiculous defence lawyers? Kind of like Ed stretching out the vocal cords before his solo shows!
Fwiw, my stepfather was a K9 officer for over twenty years so I've been around it my entire life. My opinions are based off first hand information.
Your opinion that cops are pigs is based off first-hand information? What does this even mean?
This place is beginning to get a little ridiculous. Whether it's Ed Snowden or attacking Bush or attacking Obama or gun control, the same viewpoints get reflexively put out from each side on the same issue from typically the same people.
Good grief, is anyone interested in not jumping to conclusions on a controversial issue? Is it possible to give some critical evaluation before we fire off things like "cops are pigs" or ardently defend that the dog deserved to die or that Ed Snowden is the second coming of Christ or that the government gets a free pass for everything?
Sorry, this is perhaps off-topic, but there are way too many emotional and ill-conceived things being posted around here lately.
This goes for both sides: if people are fine to conclude that all cops are pigs because their dad was one (that sounds more like an issue for a different forum) or that every cop who wears a badge is just doing his or her job, regardless of the consequences, then so be it. But in the interest of civility, keep it respectful. In the interest of doing justice to whatever claim you think you're making, at least rationalize it out with more than just 15 second video clips, off the cuff anecdotes or broad unprovable generalizations.
This cop has a history of abuse, so yeah he is a pig. I never said all cops were, just this group. Thugs with costumes and guns.
This cop has a history of abuse, so yeah he is a pig. I never said all cops were, just this group. Thugs with costumes and guns.
Sure, but you made no effort to point that distinction out initially, did you? You said "cops are pigs" and let it stand, based on one internet video, and one incident. If you had any interest in not making a broad generalization about cops, you would've clarified so.
And on it goes.
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This cop has a history of abuse, so yeah he is a pig. I never said all cops were, just this group. Thugs with costumes and guns.
From an earlier post:
And yeah they are pigs. I'll show them respect when they respect others.
So, are you sure that not even one of those officers is a decent guy?
Was the owner of the dog showing respect when he was yelling at the cops, while ignoring simple commands to leave the proximity and film like all the others where it was safer and okay to do so from?
Comments
I can assure you that a charging dog is grounds for an officer to discharge his firearm.
I'm an animal lover (and a vegetarian to boot) but there's not a court that won't allow an officer to defend him or herself.
I didn't watch the video (I've reviewed my own officers' squad cams of shooting dogs - you're right, it isn't fun), so I won't comment on whether he was wrongfully arrested or not. But understand, a charging dog, rightly or wrongly, is almost always grounds for an officer to defend him or herself. So if you're looking for an "abuse of power" angle, the dog angle isn't it.
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I dunno - I figure when a dog that size (an ANGRY one at that) is coming at you, self-preservation is the first instinct.
I don't blame the dog one iota. I don't blame the officer(s) either - and think calling him an asshole is somewhat over the top - as is calling for him to be fired.
Given what I've read so far, I blame the dude who had no business being where he was, doing what he was.
Sometimes it's best to use your head, shut the fuck up and let others do what they need to, especially in such a tense situation. Make your "point" another time.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/02/prweb1946004.htm
Hey...
I agree with everything you said. If the dog was a Chichuahua or a Shiz-Tsu or something... okay, don't shoot. But a Rotweiller, Doberman, German Sheperd, Pit Bull, etc... like a dog dog... it becomes a completely different situation with a completely different set of circumstances.
The dog should never have been placed in that situation. I feel really bad... for the dog. The guy needs to own up to his poor decision making and stop blaming others for his poor judgement.
Hail, Hail!!!
That cop totally overreacted IMO. And hello? Ever heard of fucking backing up and using a fucking taser??! And if he didn't have one on him, then fucking backing up and getting one?! Because the dogs was not lunging. And it was walking away when they shot it. I think some are exaggerating the threat that the dog was presenting. Killing the dog (inhumanely) should NOT be the FIRST course of action unless the dog is seriously threatening someone's safety, and I don't think it was in this case. I agree that if the dog had been more threatening then okay, but what I saw was that the cop just had to back away from it and let the owner stand between the dog and the cops, which he was TRYING to do, and the cops held him back for no good reason at all. Letting the owner step up like he was trying to would have been a very easy solution! But no... for a lot of cops, the best method seems to be "shoot first, think later." And yes, in this case he did have time to think. If he couldn't think up that much in that amount of time, then he shouldn't be a cop, since next time it could be a 12 year old with a fucking water gun.
Jesus, I wish I hadn't watched that.
Stop being the apologist of the police like they are heroes or something. They used excessive force. Period. The dog never circled one time. It ran up to its' master and stopped, it didn't even bark. Stop making excuses for these lowlifes.
And yeah I hope these pigs lose everything. Fucking all.
Yeah cause when the breed of dog that kills the most people each year is lunging after you, you go ahead and take the time to just turn your back and go get a taser from the local Walmart.
You just crossed the line calling them pigs. And I don't think you actually watched the video...didn't bark? It was barking from they car. That idiot should have never put his dog in that situation.
I didn't want to be the first one to respond to such a remark. And given what he has said... I don't think he watched the video either. If a person cannot see the aggression in the dog towards the officers... then they clearly are looking from the most biased perspective one might possibly have. Of course, given he used the term 'pigs' to describe the officers... I guess we already knew this.
There are no rules of engagement with a fucking dog- they didn't need to get bit before protecting themselves. It was clearly acting aggressively, clearly increasing in its state of agitation, and the officers reacted most appropriately. The detainment of the guy might be questionable, but the force used on the dog was warranted. I'm not deliberately trying to provoke Unsung into an argument because there really isn't one. To be honest... I am stunned that people feel the cops should have tried something else in their bag of tricks to stop the advance of a dog capable of inflicting great harm.
Lowlifes? Yikes.
I am really surprised that so many of you think that cop's actions were justified after watching the video. They didn't began try taking a step back to see what happened. Thatan should not have been cuffed in the first place - just that is wrong. And that dog was not posing enough of a threat to justify killing it like that. Bottom line, the cops were making an arrest that wasn't even legal, and caused the man'sdog to bwcome justifiably upset, and then killed the dog before making any effort to calm it down or to even take a step back to see what it was going to do. All wrong.
It's like we are watching 2 different videos.
The ironic thing for me is I was having a discussion the other day how I have lost all respect for police officers based on the ones I've dealt with in the past several years, and here inn defending one.
You can't even hear anything that is said, not can you see what happened before the video started.
You could very well be right. But, they aren't "disinterested" at first, they are doing their job, standing their post until the armed robbers are apprehended. Once that is done, they walk over to the guy. Could just be about priorities at that moment.
I just don't think the video gives enough info to know 100%. It is certainly cause for investigation though.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
The dog was barking when it was in the car, it wasn't when it got out. It was trying to get to its' master and if you knew dog behavior you'd know they show aggression and then stop short as this one did. They do that to see if the target would back off, which the cop didn't.
And yeah they are pigs. I'll show them respect when they respect others. Otherwise they are nothing more than thugs in a costume, armed ones that believe they are above the law. The shooter has a history of abuse so I'm thinking he's the act first never think type of cop. Those are the most dangerous.
In the end they are supposed to serve and protect, but even an animal did a better job at that.
Fwiw, my stepfather was a K9 officer for over twenty years so I've been around it my entire life. My opinions are based off first hand information.
Your opinion that cops are pigs is based off first-hand information? What does this even mean?
This place is beginning to get a little ridiculous. Whether it's Ed Snowden or attacking Bush or attacking Obama or gun control, the same viewpoints get reflexively put out from each side on the same issue from typically the same people.
Good grief, is anyone interested in not jumping to conclusions on a controversial issue? Is it possible to give some critical evaluation before we fire off things like "cops are pigs" or ardently defend that the dog deserved to die or that Ed Snowden is the second coming of Christ or that the government gets a free pass for everything?
Sorry, this is perhaps off-topic, but there are way too many emotional and ill-conceived things being posted around here lately.
This goes for both sides: if people are fine to conclude that all cops are pigs because their dad was one (that sounds more like an issue for a different forum) or that every cop who wears a badge is just doing his or her job, regardless of the consequences, then so be it. But in the interest of civility, keep it respectful. In the interest of doing justice to whatever claim you think you're making, at least rationalize it out with more than just 15 second video clips, off the cuff anecdotes or broad unprovable generalizations.
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I can't watch the video - but was the dog still 'charging' at them after the first shot? second shot? third? i doubt it.
I believe the same with any group of people, that most of them are good people, but in this situation the police officer made a terrible error in judgement. If he is that trigger happy he should not be working in a field that allows him to carry a weapon.
I am guessing (purely) that there are thousands of situations like this one that are handled without any shots fired on a daily basis. We will likely never hear about those. They aren't news.
Lastly I will say that the owner of the dog put his dog in a very bad situation and needs to burden much of the blame. When my dogs act aggressively towards anything while we are on a walk i quickly turn and head the other way.
Firstly... as for the suggestions the cop critics suggest as better alternatives... I haven't heard a realistic one yet. The dog was not about to stop its advances. It had lunged 4-5 times. The one cop had tried to grab its leash. The cops as a unit thwarted the dog's advances each time before finally shooting it. If I remember the video correctly... the first time the dog is shot you cannot even tell- the dog hardly flinches (I thought the cop missed!). Then there was a slight pause... and then the cop shot it multiple times. I guess what I am saying is that Chadwick is not high when he suggests the taser would be grabbed by the Rottweiler and stuffed up the cop's ass. They had no alternative.
Secondly... I value the life and safety of a human being much more than a dog. Yes... I am guilty of this. I get the fact that you love dogs, but get serious: do you actually think the cops, in a tense situation demanding 4 or 5 of their cars on a blocked off street, are expected to do a dance with an aggressive dog trying to protect its owner? And do you actually think the cops should have waited for the dog to bite one of them, receive instructions from HQ to fire (as per some peacekeeping military protocol), and then protect themselves? Geezuz, man. Come home from the fair.
We can debate the detainment- but nobody knows the whole story from the video that was shot beside the car blaring its music- so that is pointless. You don't know that it was a clear violation of that man's rights. This forum frowns on people for rushing to snap judgements and this is exactly what you are doing when you make such a comment. What do we know from the video? The guy was being blatantly obnoxious in the face of law officers trying to do their job. I hope I am raising my children to exercise a little more common sense. He was essentially looking for trouble... and he found it.
Poor relations with his stepfather?
As for the rest of your post... you have tried to offer some levity. it does seem that this community- and I'm guilty as anyone- is charged for conflict. I haven't been a lifer on here, but I can pretty safely predict who I will be in opposition to on a routine basis when commenting towards some issues.
Van... I get a chuckle when you post. I picture you behind your mahogany desk, loading your attaché with critical documents necessary for trial, and squeezing in one more post before ducking out heading to court. Maybe this board serves as a warm-up for you dealing with those ridiculous defence lawyers? Kind of like Ed stretching out the vocal cords before his solo shows!
This cop has a history of abuse, so yeah he is a pig. I never said all cops were, just this group. Thugs with costumes and guns.
At least now Tony has a dog in Heaven.
Sure, but you made no effort to point that distinction out initially, did you? You said "cops are pigs" and let it stand, based on one internet video, and one incident. If you had any interest in not making a broad generalization about cops, you would've clarified so.
And on it goes.
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From an earlier post:
And yeah they are pigs. I'll show them respect when they respect others.
So, are you sure that not even one of those officers is a decent guy?
Was the owner of the dog showing respect when he was yelling at the cops, while ignoring simple commands to leave the proximity and film like all the others where it was safer and okay to do so from?