Van... I get a chuckle when you post. I picture you behind your mahogany desk, loading your attaché with critical documents necessary for trial, and squeezing in one more post before ducking out heading to court. Maybe this board serves as a warm-up for you dealing with those ridiculous defence lawyers? Kind of like Ed stretching out the vocal cords before his solo shows!
I have no idea if the desk is mahogany (it is brown though). Thankfully, the few weeks around any holiday (front and back) are always ghost towns around the office and courthouse. I had a trial calendar yesterday with 3 cases that were finished by noon.
That leaves me ample time to waste on here the day before a holiday.
This board is a great place to sound off and make points and learn new stuff. I tend to learn more about my own arguments and beliefs in the process of responding to people than I do just reading. So it's a great place to be, but I get really, really tired of reading arguments where some unprovable anecdote is the only support offered, or where claims are allowed to persist by virtue of insinuation or generalization.
In other words, if we're all going to argue, let's at least do it with reason and respect, not anecdote and insult.
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This board is a great place to sound off and make points and learn new stuff. I tend to learn more about my own arguments and beliefs in the process of responding to people than I do just reading. So it's a great place to be, but I get really, really tired of reading arguments where some unprovable anecdote is the only support offered, or where claims are allowed to persist by virtue of insinuation or generalization.
In other words, if we're all going to argue, let's at least do it with reason and respect, not anecdote and insult.
Bravo to this (as well as to many of your other well-thought-out and well-spoken posts - they're appreciated).
That said, I too had a similar at-the-desk-quick-post visual
This cop has a history of abuse, so yeah he is a pig. I never said all cops were, just this group. Thugs with costumes and guns.
From an earlier post:
And yeah they are pigs. I'll show them respect when they respect others.
So, are you sure that not even one of those officers is a decent guy?
Was the owner of the dog showing respect when he was yelling at the cops, while ignoring simple commands to leave the proximity and film like all the others where it was safer and okay to do so from?
Yeah, I am talking about the group immediately involved. Based on their actions as a whole I'd say that they were less desirable to be serving the public. THEY WORK FOR US.
And you don't know what was said, what they told him to do, just like I don't know. The video shows that he wasn't resisting, and that is all we can tell other than the end. I never said his actions were without guilt, but the conduct of the police that were there looks excessive to me. Since one of those officers (the shooter) was involved in another case that the city had to settle for $1,000,000 I'd say he is prone to abuse and is a bad example of an officer that is supposed to serve and protect.
Fwiw, my stepfather was a K9 officer for over twenty years so I've been around it my entire life. My opinions are based off first hand information.
'Some of my best friends are black..." :fp:
When you use a term like pigs you have crossed the same line as the N word or any of the other terrible terms out there.
I refuse to pretend these clowns are heroes, they are cowards. And there is no racism involved, so no it is nowhere near the same thing.
Who said these cops were heros?
And generalizing an entire group is exactly what you are doing. You are projecting your knowledge of a police dog's behavior onto an unknown Rotweiler. Not going to act the same.
This cop has a history of abuse, so yeah he is a pig. I never said all cops were, just this group. Thugs with costumes and guns.
From an earlier post:
And yeah they are pigs. I'll show them respect when they respect others.
So, are you sure that not even one of those officers is a decent guy?
Was the owner of the dog showing respect when he was yelling at the cops, while ignoring simple commands to leave the proximity and film like all the others where it was safer and okay to do so from?
Yeah, I am talking about the group immediately involved. Based on their actions as a whole I'd say that they were less desirable to be serving the public. THEY WORK FOR US.
And you don't know what was said, what they told him to do, just like I don't know. The video shows that he wasn't resisting, and that is all we can tell other than the end. I never said his actions were without guilt, but the conduct of the police that were there looks excessive to me. Since one of those officers (the shooter) was involved in another case that the city had to settle for $1,000,000 I'd say he is prone to abuse and is a bad example of an officer that is supposed to serve and protect.
This might be a case of excessive policing... but let's also acknowledge:
* He wasn't resisting and the officers' level of force was at a minimum towards him as a result.
* The dog was menacing and its level of anxiety was rising. We cannot say that the cop who shot the dog really wanted to shoot the dog or if he reluctantly shot the dog. We can say that the dog was a threat- it wasn't looking to play fetch: it was agitated and becoming more so as the moment got more tense.
* The owner is to blame for the dog's death. He stuck his nose where it didn't belong. He did not secure his dog within the car and it jumped out the window to find its fate. Just as a dog owner would be responsible for failing to secure their dog and it leaves to attack a child... this guy failed to prevent his dog from approaching the officers. To expect more from the officers is a little unfair- we weren't the ones being challenged by the 80 pound Rottweiler.
Thirty Bills I agree, in the same situation I may have done the same as the cop.
My good Bro. raises Rotties (5 adult rotties in his shop at all times) and I have been nipped more than once but on the other hand they enjoy sitting on my lap when I sit on the couch
The only thing I'll comment on is the fact that they could have done the dog justice by putting it out of it's writhing misery.
Agreed. Just standing there watching it thrash around like that is pretty dispicable. If you're so willing to shoot a dog, at least be man enough to finish the fucking job. That cop was quick on his feet when it came to filling it with holes, but once it came to putting it out of its misery, he just stood there like an idiot. :x
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The dog was barking when it was in the car, it wasn't when it got out. It was trying to get to its' master and if you knew dog behavior you'd know they show aggression and then stop short as this one did. They do that to see if the target would back off, which the cop didn't.
I don't even know that much about dog behaviour, and I knew that while I was watching the vid the first time. It was very clear to me that the dog was not showing enough aggression for someone to shoot it.
Is no one else concerned that such a knee jerk reaction with the gun on the part of the cop is scary as fuck? I don't think that kind of reaction should necessarily be something that is assumed to be exclusive to dogs that are showing mild aggression.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The only thing I'll comment on is the fact that they could have done the dog justice by putting it out of it's writhing misery.
Agreed. Just standing there watching it thrash around like that is pretty dispicable. If you're so willing to shoot a dog, at least be man enough to finish the fucking job. That cop was quick on his feet when it came to filling it with holes, but once it came to putting it out of its misery, he just stood there like an idiot. :x
It was a disturbing scene. I'm not a veterinarian, but the twitching at the end were involuntary nerve reflexes and the dog was likely dead at that time. Shooting it more at that point would be nothing more than mutilation.
Again... I'm playing Devil's advocate... but the cop may have been sitting there, feeling really shitty, and regretting the incident. I'm pretty confident that all involved never wished for the scene to play out as it did.
The only thing I'll comment on is the fact that they could have done the dog justice by putting it out of it's writhing misery.
Agreed. Just standing there watching it thrash around like that is pretty dispicable. If you're so willing to shoot a dog, at least be man enough to finish the fucking job. That cop was quick on his feet when it came to filling it with holes, but once it came to putting it out of its misery, he just stood there like an idiot. :x
It was a disturbing scene. I'm not a veterinarian, but the twitching at the end were involuntary nerve reflexes and the dog was likely dead at that time. Shooting it more at that point would be nothing more than mutilation.
Again... I'm playing Devil's advocate... but the cop may have been sitting there, feeling really shitty, and regretting the incident. I'm pretty confident that all involved never wished for the scene to play out as it did.
Those were not involuntary nerve reflexes of a dead dog man. I don't know where you got that idea, but you're wrong.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The dog was barking when it was in the car, it wasn't when it got out. It was trying to get to its' master and if you knew dog behavior you'd know they show aggression and then stop short as this one did. They do that to see if the target would back off, which the cop didn't.
I don't even know that much about dog behaviour, and I knew that while I was watching the vid the first time. It was very clear to me that the dog was not showing enough aggression for someone to shoot it.
Is no one else concerned that such a knee jerk reaction with the gun on the part of the cop is scary as fuck? I don't think that kind of reaction should necessarily be something that is assumed to be exclusive to dogs that are showing mild aggression.
This is moving way up the ladder of inference.
As I said before... it's pretty unfair to judge from our keyboards what should have been done and how things should have been handled while not face to face with the potential threat. If I'm one of the cops... I would have felt threatened. To assume everyone has the dog whisperer's disposition and should feel secure around an animal who's very breed has maimed and even killed people is a stretch to say the least. Give these guys a break.
Was the dog growling? Can anyone tell? It wasn't exactly wagging it's tail and leaping about playfully. It was lunging in and out and it began to jump up at the officers.
I get the impression some of you think that a cop should be inflicted with a bite wound before he is allowed to defend himself. Where can I sign up to be one?
The dog was barking when it was in the car, it wasn't when it got out. It was trying to get to its' master and if you knew dog behavior you'd know they show aggression and then stop short as this one did. They do that to see if the target would back off, which the cop didn't.
I don't even know that much about dog behaviour, and I knew that while I was watching the vid the first time. It was very clear to me that the dog was not showing enough aggression for someone to shoot it.
Is no one else concerned that such a knee jerk reaction with the gun on the part of the cop is scary as fuck? I don't think that kind of reaction should necessarily be something that is assumed to be exclusive to dogs that are showing mild aggression.
This is moving way up the ladder of inference.
As I said before... it's pretty unfair to judge from our keyboards what should have been done and how things should have been handled while not face to face with the potential threat. If I'm one of the cops... I would have felt threatened. To assume everyone has the dog whisperer's disposition and should feel secure around an animal who's very breed has maimed and even killed people is a stretch to say the least. Give these guys a break.
Was the dog growling? Can anyone tell? It wasn't exactly wagging it's tail and leaping about playfully. It was lunging in and out and it began to jump up at the officers.
I get the impression some of you think that a cop should be inflicted with a bite wound before he is allowed to defend himself. Where can I sign up to be one?
If I'd been the cop, I would have felt threatened too. Hell, I've BEEN at least that threatened by a scary dog before. And there is no way my reaction in that situation, as someone who has actually been in a stand off with a rotti whose owner wasn't even around (it had escaped its yard) would have been to immediately shoot the dog (if I'd had a gun). It would have been to take a few steps back and see what the dog was going to do (and that's just what I did - I held it off just by slowly backing up until someone else came and distracted the dog). NONE of those cops did ANYTHING to calm the dog down or to take a step back to assess the situation IMO, and that is not acceptable. It was still a LIFE, and they took no steps to even try and consider the options, and yes, they DID have to time and opportunity to do so. They chose to bow to momentary chaos instead. That is dangerous. One dog that was NOT attacking vs a bunch of cops with guns. Nice. Again, I can't believe so many of you are defending that cop's actions.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Those were not involuntary nerve reflexes of a dead dog man. I don't know where you got that idea, but you're wrong.
I've seen the exact thing from a dog that was hit by a car right in front of me: on 2 different occasions. I'm pretty sure it was.
And if it wasn't... then that dog was still kicking after 6,7,8...? shots. And you are suggesting that they did what to subdue it?
And I've seen the same thing while my cat was suffocating as her lungs failed. She was very obviously conscious. I could tell because my face was 8 inches from hers.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Also, calling the cops pigs is not at all in line with using the N word. So there's that.
Not that I call cops pigs.... but come on.
How is it not all all in line?
It's a terrible term to demean a group of individuals based on a characteristic...this being their profession.
One is racist, while the other is a derogatory term used against people in a particular profession. The same as calling lawyers bottom feeders. It is NOT the same thing. Being a cop is not characteristic. It's a job.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Those were not involuntary nerve reflexes of a dead dog man. I don't know where you got that idea, but you're wrong.
I've seen the exact thing from a dog that was hit by a car right in front of me: on 2 different occasions. I'm pretty sure it was.
And if it wasn't... then that dog was still kicking after 6,7,8...? shots. And you are suggesting that they did what to subdue it?
And I've seen the same thing while my cat was suffocating as her lungs failed. She was very obviously conscious. I could tell because my face was 8 inches from hers.
Okay. You seem to have an answer for everything here. Four things as I try to let this one go:
1. You have cast judgement on the officers and have deemed them barbaric for defending themselves from a seemingly menacing dog. You say the dog was not challenging them. You say they should have tried a bunch of things instead of shooting it- but never really said what. Your example from your personal experience can't come into play here- the owner was handcuffed and couldn't come to the rescue. The officers are not going to uncuff the guy so that he can control his dog: there are multiple scenarios where this action could be disastrous. I illustrated one, but just use your imagination as to how something like that could backfire dramatically.
2. I would suggest reading up a bit on post mortem nerve reflexes. It might have been what you witnessed during the video- even though you saw a cat from 8 inches from your face that never exhibited residual neural signals. Your dismissal of the notion that this might have been what we witnessed before the dog ceased to move points to a certain level of closed-minded thinking.
3. Why do you ignore the 'tougher to answer' questions such as: would the officers be in the right to defend themselves if the dog bit one of them? And... to that... do they have to wait to get bit before defending themselves?
4. Do you place yourself at risk when you go to work? You seem to speak from the position as one who does. If so... then perhaps I need to reconsider my position. If not... then perhaps you might wish to reconsider yours.
Also, calling the cops pigs is not at all in line with using the N word. So there's that.
Not that I call cops pigs.... but come on.
How is it not all all in line?
It's a terrible term to demean a group of individuals based on a characteristic...this being their profession.
One is racist, while the other is a derogatory term used against people in a particular profession. The same as calling lawyers bottom feeders. It is NOT the same thing. Being a cop is not characteristic. It's a job.
Ok, I disagree. but fair enough for your point of view.
The only thing I'll comment on is the fact that they could have done the dog justice by putting it out of it's writhing misery.
Agreed. Just standing there watching it thrash around like that is pretty dispicable. If you're so willing to shoot a dog, at least be man enough to finish the fucking job. That cop was quick on his feet when it came to filling it with holes, but once it came to putting it out of its misery, he just stood there like an idiot. :x
Dear god...
Not watching this video was the right decision for me.
I wish I didn't. However things like this need to be shown. Police need to serve and protect, not be overlords over people.
I also posted links that no one has mentioned. Dog shootings are becoming commonplace and are the first action instead of the last resort. There are some examples in the link that are astonishing. It's disturbing that these people are given guns. There has to be a mental problem with those that shoot first, they shouldn't be cops.
I wish I didn't. However things like this need to be shown. Police need to serve and protect, not be overlords over people.
I also posted links that no one has mentioned. Dog shootings are becoming commonplace and are the first action instead of the last resort. There are some examples in the link that are astonishing. It's disturbing that these people are given guns. There has to be a mental problem with those that shoot first, they shouldn't be cops.
I am not necessarily agreeing that the right actions were taken by the law with the owner of the dog. Whether or not he needed to be handcuffed and arrested is to be determined after the story comes out.
Having said this... viscious dog attacks are also becoming commonplace. Good lord, man. What you expect from the police is flabbergasting. With the conditions you would have them work under... why would anyone wish to do that job?
You want cops who shoot second? So, in other words... get bit or get shot before you draw your weapon prepared to defend yourself? Ridiculous.
I've seen the exact thing from a dog that was hit by a car right in front of me: on 2 different occasions. I'm pretty sure it was.
And if it wasn't... then that dog was still kicking after 6,7,8...? shots. And you are suggesting that they did what to subdue it?
And I've seen the same thing while my cat was suffocating as her lungs failed. She was very obviously conscious. I could tell because my face was 8 inches from hers.
Okay. You seem to have an answer for everything here. Four things as I try to let this one go:
1. You have cast judgement on the officers and have deemed them barbaric for defending themselves from a seemingly menacing dog. You say the dog was not challenging them. You say they should have tried a bunch of things instead of shooting it- but never really said what. Your example from your personal experience can't come into play here- the owner was handcuffed and couldn't come to the rescue. The officers are not going to uncuff the guy so that he can control his dog: there are multiple scenarios where this action could be disastrous. I illustrated one, but just use your imagination as to how something like that could backfire dramatically.
2. I would suggest reading up a bit on post mortem nerve reflexes. It might have been what you witnessed during the video- even though you saw a cat from 8 inches from your face that never exhibited residual neural signals. Your dismissal of the notion that this might have been what we witnessed before the dog ceased to move points to a certain level of closed-minded thinking.
3. Why do you ignore the 'tougher to answer' questions such as: would the officers be in the right to defend themselves if the dog bit one of them? And... to that... do they have to wait to get bit before defending themselves?
4. Do you place yourself at risk when you go to work? You seem to speak from the position as one who does. If so... then perhaps I need to reconsider my position. If not... then perhaps you might wish to reconsider yours.
1. I don't believe from what I saw that they needed to defend themselves to that extent, and I did say what they should have tried a lot of times, and they had options. I said they could have let the owner step forward, as he was trying to do, so he could calm the dog down and be between the dog and the cops, and/or the cops should have stepped back a couple of steps to see what the dog did. The owner totally could have come to the rescue simply by stepping forward 3 feet and talking to the dog. No hands needed. And the owner TRIED to do that, but the cops held him back.
2. IMO the dog was alive and in pain after being shot, and I don't think there is any point in us arguing about that. The dog was squealing, and took a while just to fall down. In any case, neither of us are vets, and that whole issue is actually completely separate from the main point anyway, which is that the cop shot the dog and shouldn't have.
3. I never saw anyone ask if they would have been right or wrong in shooting the dog had it bit one of them (I did not read anything in this thread before my first post and I'm sure have not read some posts since then), but I don't find that a hard to answer question at all. If the dog had bitten one of them then he would have been right in shooting it. But it didn't. And didn't even TRY to. If it had even TRIED to bite one of them, shooting MIGHT have been justified, but probably not without them even trying to take a step away from the dog.
4. I am not a cop or a fireman or anything.... but I do place myself at risk in that on a semi-regular basis I deal with volatile, upset, and/or mentally ill or emotionally unstable people, and I often have to tell them what they don't want to here - things that seriously impact their lives at times. I have felt threatened several times in this context. I have had to call security many times while I was fearful for my safety, and I have also taken courses on how to deescalate threatening situations and how to deal with conflict (with people). But I don't actually know why you're asking. If I knitted mittens for a living, I could still have a valid opinion about what happened on that video. I have been attacked by dogs 3 times. One bit me in the face, another jumped on me and scratched my back really badly, one bit my leg. And then there was the stand off I was in with a very sinister rotti that was ready to lunge. So I think I can say that I have experience with dealing with threatening dogs.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'm one of the people who is kinda in the middle on this one. I dont think the dog needed to die. And as I stated before, I dont think i personally would've shot the dog, but I also dont think many of us are in the position to judge even after seeing the video. Having a large rottweiler bearing down on your face cannot be an easy thing to react to. And it did lunge a few times. In addition, these guys were likely on edge as they were responding to an armed hostage situation I think... I know that's not an excuse, but it does make you wonder why the fuck the owner was poking his ass into their business. He put his dogs life at risk, as well as his own.
From the video, it is hard to tell the aggression level of the dog. I've had a big ass dog in my face and it wasnt even that mad, and it scared the shit out of me. We might not be able to tell from the distance of the video how angry that dog appeared. But on the flipside, its possible that the dog was not aggressive at all. BUT, officers put their lives on the line all the time, and as thirty bills has said, it's possible that within seconds that dog could've had someones face in its jaws. Its a split second decision, and as it might have been the wrong one, its not completely out of line. This even reminds me a bit of the Zimmerman trial. How threatened does one need to feel in order to react with potential deadly force? Why is that deadly force the only option? I would've just looked like a pussy and jumped on the hood of the police vehicle, but then again, that leaves the other two officers who were cuffing the guy, very vulnerable, becasue they had their hands full.
So, I think each and every one of us needs to consider the opposite of what we're thinking for a moment to keep an open mind to what might have happened and how it might have appeared if you were the one with a rottweiler breathing down your neck. I only suggest this because after reading a lot of posts in this thread, it almost appears as though each of us is watching a different video. Again, I am completely disgusted by the officers actions, but I cant condone them.
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'Some of my best friends are black..." :fp:
When you use a term like pigs you have crossed the same line as the N word or any of the other terrible terms out there.
I have no idea if the desk is mahogany (it is brown though). Thankfully, the few weeks around any holiday (front and back) are always ghost towns around the office and courthouse. I had a trial calendar yesterday with 3 cases that were finished by noon.
That leaves me ample time to waste on here the day before a holiday.
This board is a great place to sound off and make points and learn new stuff. I tend to learn more about my own arguments and beliefs in the process of responding to people than I do just reading. So it's a great place to be, but I get really, really tired of reading arguments where some unprovable anecdote is the only support offered, or where claims are allowed to persist by virtue of insinuation or generalization.
In other words, if we're all going to argue, let's at least do it with reason and respect, not anecdote and insult.
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That said, I too had a similar at-the-desk-quick-post visual
Yeah, I am talking about the group immediately involved. Based on their actions as a whole I'd say that they were less desirable to be serving the public. THEY WORK FOR US.
And you don't know what was said, what they told him to do, just like I don't know. The video shows that he wasn't resisting, and that is all we can tell other than the end. I never said his actions were without guilt, but the conduct of the police that were there looks excessive to me. Since one of those officers (the shooter) was involved in another case that the city had to settle for $1,000,000 I'd say he is prone to abuse and is a bad example of an officer that is supposed to serve and protect.
I refuse to pretend these clowns are heroes, they are cowards. And there is no racism involved, so no it is nowhere near the same thing.
Who said these cops were heros?
And generalizing an entire group is exactly what you are doing. You are projecting your knowledge of a police dog's behavior onto an unknown Rotweiler. Not going to act the same.
This might be a case of excessive policing... but let's also acknowledge:
* He wasn't resisting and the officers' level of force was at a minimum towards him as a result.
* The dog was menacing and its level of anxiety was rising. We cannot say that the cop who shot the dog really wanted to shoot the dog or if he reluctantly shot the dog. We can say that the dog was a threat- it wasn't looking to play fetch: it was agitated and becoming more so as the moment got more tense.
* The owner is to blame for the dog's death. He stuck his nose where it didn't belong. He did not secure his dog within the car and it jumped out the window to find its fate. Just as a dog owner would be responsible for failing to secure their dog and it leaves to attack a child... this guy failed to prevent his dog from approaching the officers. To expect more from the officers is a little unfair- we weren't the ones being challenged by the 80 pound Rottweiler.
My good Bro. raises Rotties (5 adult rotties in his shop at all times) and I have been nipped more than once but on the other hand they enjoy sitting on my lap when I sit on the couch
Godfather.
Not that I call cops pigs.... but come on.
I don't even know that much about dog behaviour, and I knew that while I was watching the vid the first time. It was very clear to me that the dog was not showing enough aggression for someone to shoot it.
Is no one else concerned that such a knee jerk reaction with the gun on the part of the cop is scary as fuck? I don't think that kind of reaction should necessarily be something that is assumed to be exclusive to dogs that are showing mild aggression.
It was a disturbing scene. I'm not a veterinarian, but the twitching at the end were involuntary nerve reflexes and the dog was likely dead at that time. Shooting it more at that point would be nothing more than mutilation.
Again... I'm playing Devil's advocate... but the cop may have been sitting there, feeling really shitty, and regretting the incident. I'm pretty confident that all involved never wished for the scene to play out as it did.
This is moving way up the ladder of inference.
As I said before... it's pretty unfair to judge from our keyboards what should have been done and how things should have been handled while not face to face with the potential threat. If I'm one of the cops... I would have felt threatened. To assume everyone has the dog whisperer's disposition and should feel secure around an animal who's very breed has maimed and even killed people is a stretch to say the least. Give these guys a break.
Was the dog growling? Can anyone tell? It wasn't exactly wagging it's tail and leaping about playfully. It was lunging in and out and it began to jump up at the officers.
I get the impression some of you think that a cop should be inflicted with a bite wound before he is allowed to defend himself. Where can I sign up to be one?
I've seen the exact thing from a dog that was hit by a car right in front of me: on 2 different occasions. I'm pretty sure it was.
And if it wasn't... then that dog was still kicking after 6,7,8...? shots. And you are suggesting that they did what to subdue it?
How is it not all all in line?
It's a terrible term to demean a group of individuals based on a characteristic...this being their profession.
Okay. You seem to have an answer for everything here. Four things as I try to let this one go:
1. You have cast judgement on the officers and have deemed them barbaric for defending themselves from a seemingly menacing dog. You say the dog was not challenging them. You say they should have tried a bunch of things instead of shooting it- but never really said what. Your example from your personal experience can't come into play here- the owner was handcuffed and couldn't come to the rescue. The officers are not going to uncuff the guy so that he can control his dog: there are multiple scenarios where this action could be disastrous. I illustrated one, but just use your imagination as to how something like that could backfire dramatically.
2. I would suggest reading up a bit on post mortem nerve reflexes. It might have been what you witnessed during the video- even though you saw a cat from 8 inches from your face that never exhibited residual neural signals. Your dismissal of the notion that this might have been what we witnessed before the dog ceased to move points to a certain level of closed-minded thinking.
3. Why do you ignore the 'tougher to answer' questions such as: would the officers be in the right to defend themselves if the dog bit one of them? And... to that... do they have to wait to get bit before defending themselves?
4. Do you place yourself at risk when you go to work? You seem to speak from the position as one who does. If so... then perhaps I need to reconsider my position. If not... then perhaps you might wish to reconsider yours.
Ok, I disagree. but fair enough for your point of view.
Dear god...
Not watching this video was the right decision for me.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I also posted links that no one has mentioned. Dog shootings are becoming commonplace and are the first action instead of the last resort. There are some examples in the link that are astonishing. It's disturbing that these people are given guns. There has to be a mental problem with those that shoot first, they shouldn't be cops.
I am not necessarily agreeing that the right actions were taken by the law with the owner of the dog. Whether or not he needed to be handcuffed and arrested is to be determined after the story comes out.
Having said this... viscious dog attacks are also becoming commonplace. Good lord, man. What you expect from the police is flabbergasting. With the conditions you would have them work under... why would anyone wish to do that job?
You want cops who shoot second? So, in other words... get bit or get shot before you draw your weapon prepared to defend yourself? Ridiculous.
You throw a hoodie on that dog then unsung would be ok with it.
haha
2. IMO the dog was alive and in pain after being shot, and I don't think there is any point in us arguing about that. The dog was squealing, and took a while just to fall down. In any case, neither of us are vets, and that whole issue is actually completely separate from the main point anyway, which is that the cop shot the dog and shouldn't have.
3. I never saw anyone ask if they would have been right or wrong in shooting the dog had it bit one of them (I did not read anything in this thread before my first post and I'm sure have not read some posts since then), but I don't find that a hard to answer question at all. If the dog had bitten one of them then he would have been right in shooting it. But it didn't. And didn't even TRY to. If it had even TRIED to bite one of them, shooting MIGHT have been justified, but probably not without them even trying to take a step away from the dog.
4. I am not a cop or a fireman or anything.... but I do place myself at risk in that on a semi-regular basis I deal with volatile, upset, and/or mentally ill or emotionally unstable people, and I often have to tell them what they don't want to here - things that seriously impact their lives at times. I have felt threatened several times in this context. I have had to call security many times while I was fearful for my safety, and I have also taken courses on how to deescalate threatening situations and how to deal with conflict (with people). But I don't actually know why you're asking. If I knitted mittens for a living, I could still have a valid opinion about what happened on that video. I have been attacked by dogs 3 times. One bit me in the face, another jumped on me and scratched my back really badly, one bit my leg. And then there was the stand off I was in with a very sinister rotti that was ready to lunge. So I think I can say that I have experience with dealing with threatening dogs.
From the video, it is hard to tell the aggression level of the dog. I've had a big ass dog in my face and it wasnt even that mad, and it scared the shit out of me. We might not be able to tell from the distance of the video how angry that dog appeared. But on the flipside, its possible that the dog was not aggressive at all. BUT, officers put their lives on the line all the time, and as thirty bills has said, it's possible that within seconds that dog could've had someones face in its jaws. Its a split second decision, and as it might have been the wrong one, its not completely out of line. This even reminds me a bit of the Zimmerman trial. How threatened does one need to feel in order to react with potential deadly force? Why is that deadly force the only option? I would've just looked like a pussy and jumped on the hood of the police vehicle, but then again, that leaves the other two officers who were cuffing the guy, very vulnerable, becasue they had their hands full.
So, I think each and every one of us needs to consider the opposite of what we're thinking for a moment to keep an open mind to what might have happened and how it might have appeared if you were the one with a rottweiler breathing down your neck. I only suggest this because after reading a lot of posts in this thread, it almost appears as though each of us is watching a different video. Again, I am completely disgusted by the officers actions, but I cant condone them.
Godfather.
explain this.