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THE LINE & "THE LIST"

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    SOLAT319SOLAT319 Posts: 4,564
    Come to Oakland and see how the list is done ;)
    I have no patience for bad music and stupid people...

    The whole world will be different soon the whole world will be RELIEVED

    #resistgezi #resistturkey #resisttaksim #direnturkiye #direngezi
    #standingman #duranadam
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,654
    A truly ideal plan would be for everyone to chill the fuck out about being on the rail. I heard there was tons of room in the pit (too much). Why not try for a culture change, where people go to the rail and the move from the rail to give others a chance too? A pit culture where no one is freaking out because they are 20 feet from the stage rather than 12? I just don't get it. Wow, if I'd had GA the other night, I would have held back and calmly strolled back put into the pit and enjoyed being as close as the back of the pit got me, or the middle. But it seems people would rather involve themselves in a stampede situation and then start crying about it. I can't say I feel bad for a single one of you who got mixed up in that and found it awful, since you chose to participate in it even though there was plenty of room for everyone. I'm baffled by this drive for the rail and intend sense of competition for it. I simply can't fathom why anyone considers all the waiting and the lists and the foot races and the pushing and shoving and territoriality of it (even under normal.circumstances) anywhere near worth it, when you could avoid it all by just relaxing.

    To the one who guessed there must have been a GA evacuation and then return at Wrigley before... No, there hasn't. Wrigley has only even had maybe a dozen concerts in its history, and this was a brand new and very new situation for everyone there. I'm sure they learned many lessons that night (ones that will hopefully never need to be put to practice).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    milanmilan Posts: 447
    Beware the Lists.

    At the end of Berlin 1 2012 (for which we had seats) we went passed the 10c queue for Berlin 2 ( for which we had GA standing and early entry) and guess what there was already a List. There were only a couple of people running the list but there were 20+ names already on the list. Where were these 20+ people - you guessed it they were still on the rail having not yet got out of the first show.

    The claim that it is run by the fans for the fans is true but really it benefits the very limited number of fans and their friends.

    It happened all across Europe for the last few tours - the same people get the barrier every show.

    Say NO to lists.
    '06 Milan
    '07 Madrid
    '08 Virginia Beach / Washington DC
    '09 Shepherds Bush / Berlin / Manchester / London
    Perth / Sydney / Brisbane

    '10 London / Berlin / Lisbon
    '11 Rio de Janeiro / Buenos Aires / Lima
    '12 Manchester I / Manchester II / Berlin I / Berlin II
    '13 Baltimore / Charlottesville / Charlotte
    '14 Perth / San Siro / Berlin / "Live at Leeds" / MK
    '15 Rio de Janeiro / Bogota


    '18 London I / Berlin / London II


    '22 Berlin / London I / London Ii

    (37)
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    pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 14,731
    milan wrote:
    Beware the Lists.

    At the end of Berlin 1 2012 (for which we had seats) we went passed the 10c queue for Berlin 2 ( for which we had GA standing and early entry) and guess what there was already a List. There were only a couple of people running the list but there were 20+ names already on the list. Where were these 20+ people - you guessed it they were still on the rail having not yet got out of the first show.

    The claim that it is run by the fans for the fans is true but really it benefits the very limited number of fans and their friends.

    It happened all across Europe for the last few tours - the same people get the barrier every show.

    Say NO to lists.


    That list was actually destroyed....a new one was started and an hourly roll call held to check attendance, anyone not there to claim their number was struck off.
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    milanmilan Posts: 447
    "Meet the new boss .... same as the old boss"
    '06 Milan
    '07 Madrid
    '08 Virginia Beach / Washington DC
    '09 Shepherds Bush / Berlin / Manchester / London
    Perth / Sydney / Brisbane

    '10 London / Berlin / Lisbon
    '11 Rio de Janeiro / Buenos Aires / Lima
    '12 Manchester I / Manchester II / Berlin I / Berlin II
    '13 Baltimore / Charlottesville / Charlotte
    '14 Perth / San Siro / Berlin / "Live at Leeds" / MK
    '15 Rio de Janeiro / Bogota


    '18 London I / Berlin / London II


    '22 Berlin / London I / London Ii

    (37)
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    rafierafie Posts: 2,160
    milan wrote:
    Beware the Lists.

    At the end of Berlin 1 2012 (for which we had seats) we went passed the 10c queue for Berlin 2 ( for which we had GA standing and early entry) and guess what there was already a List. There were only a couple of people running the list but there were 20+ names already on the list. Where were these 20+ people - you guessed it they were still on the rail having not yet got out of the first show.

    The claim that it is run by the fans for the fans is true but really it benefits the very limited number of fans and their friends.

    It happened all across Europe for the last few tours - the same people get the barrier every show.

    Say NO to lists.
    That list was actually redone a couple of times before the morning of the second show. People who signed up and left for the night were removed. I got there around 9:30 (or was it 7:30 - don't remember) and was number 60.
    With that said, that show was the worst example of a list for the entire euro 2012 tour. The people who were there know what I am talking about....
    Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!

    2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
    2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
    2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
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    KathiKathi Posts: 1,828
    rafie wrote:
    milan wrote:
    Beware the Lists.

    At the end of Berlin 1 2012 (for which we had seats) we went passed the 10c queue for Berlin 2 ( for which we had GA standing and early entry) and guess what there was already a List. There were only a couple of people running the list but there were 20+ names already on the list. Where were these 20+ people - you guessed it they were still on the rail having not yet got out of the first show.

    The claim that it is run by the fans for the fans is true but really it benefits the very limited number of fans and their friends.

    It happened all across Europe for the last few tours - the same people get the barrier every show.

    Say NO to lists.
    That list was actually redone a couple of times before the morning of the second show. People who signed up and left for the night were removed. I got there around 9:30 (or was it 7:30 - don't remember) and was number 60.
    With that said, that show was the worst example of a list for the entire euro 2012 tour. The people who were there know what I am talking about....


    yup. the italian job.. ;) honestly, this was the only time I've seen a big list fuckup in the last euro tour. and that was onky due to the people who ran it (who left during indifference to start a list, and suddenly installed check up times, which had never been the case with any other people running the list. it was just a big group of people on a power trip.

    I'm not saying the list is flawless, but if it's run by halfway decent people, it can definitely be of help.
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    on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,471
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    A truly ideal plan would be for everyone to chill the fuck out about being on the rail. I heard there was tons of room in the pit (too much). Why not try for a culture change, where people go to the rail and the move from the rail to give others a chance too? A pit culture where no one is freaking out because they are 20 feet from the stage rather than 12? I just don't get it. Wow, if I'd had GA the other night, I would have held back and calmly strolled back put into the pit and enjoyed being as close as the back of the pit got me, or the middle. But it seems people would rather involve themselves in a stampede situation and then start crying about it. I can't say I feel bad for a single one of you who got mixed up in that and found it awful, since you chose to participate in it even though there was plenty of room for everyone. I'm baffled by this drive for the rail and intend sense of competition for it. I simply can't fathom why anyone considers all the waiting and the lists and the foot races and the pushing and shoving and territoriality of it (even under normal.circumstances) anywhere near worth it, when you could avoid it all by just relaxing.

    To the one who guessed there must have been a GA evacuation and then return at Wrigley before... No, there hasn't. Wrigley has only even had maybe a dozen concerts in its history, and this was a brand new and very new situation for everyone there. I'm sure they learned many lessons that night (ones that will hopefully never need to be put to practice).

    Well said.

    I think people forget that the whole concept of GA is General Admission which means you don't get to claim a spot as yours for the whole night if you leave said spot. I think they have it confused with Reserved Seating.
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore


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    gfnk001gfnk001 Posts: 652
    The list worked wonderfully. Those who are opposed seem to be the elitists. I was there from 6am until we were let in at 5:30, it was great. Once on the rail the numbers are obsolete and it's up to you to keep your spot. But if you earn the rail and need to go piss, then you should be able to go piss. There was only one guy who was totally opposed to having a number put on his hand, but we still let him in our line because we are not elitists. So kudos to Graham.
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    2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,150
    Circle and Line - great tune..needs its own thread...
    www.cluthelee.com
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    pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 14,731
    Ok, the point is being missed all over the place. The list isn't about being GA, its about getting into GA in the order folk arrive OUTSIDE the venue
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    crazygeocrazygeo Posts: 2,374
    I don't care about no stinking list
    GA means free for all
    That's what it says on my ticket
    • 1991-11-17• 1998-08-28 •2000-09-01
    • 2003-07-05• 2004-10-01
    • 2005-10-03• 2006-05-27
    • 2008-06-19• 2009-10-27 2009-10-28 •2009-10-30
    • 2009-10-31

    *Tres Mts 2011-03-23
    *Eddie Vedder 2011-06-25
    - 2013-10-21
    - 2013=10-22
    -2016 -04-28
    -2016 -04-29
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,654
    pdalowsky wrote:
    Ok, the point is being missed all over the place. The list isn't about being GA, its about getting into GA in the order folk arrive OUTSIDE the venue
    I guess from now on there needs to be a main list and a secondary list in case of act by God. :lol: :fp:
    I agree that if you lose your place in GA it's lost for good, no matter what the reason for losing it is. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that you get to keep the rail after losing it. As mentioned, it's not reserved seating. No one has a permanent claim on any one spot in GA, line or no line, list or no list. That list is for dictating what order people ENTER THE BUILDING in, not who gets up to the rail! I am surprised people weren't more gracious is a difficult situation, but again, no one made anyone put themselves at risk - that is completely the doing of each individual with odd priorities.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    starmap3333starmap3333 Posts: 3,925
    In the event that I do ever have GA tickets, I will enter the venue and get as close to the rail as I can without being an asshole. Thanks and enjoy your list.
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,612
    once you enter, do people start running ahead of you even though you have a lower spot? Does it become a race?
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    SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,165
    MayDay10 wrote:
    once you enter, do people start running ahead of you even though you have a lower spot? Does it become a race?
    Inevitably yes. In Europe they walked us in like 10 at a time or something and kept telling us not to run. At Wrigley it was full on running but I think if you were first 50-75 in line you were on the rail (well, until the rain delay!)
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    JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 18,952
    I hope to never have GA tickets. If I ever do, lining up early, running inside and pushing my way to the front are things I have no interest in doing. So list or no list you would most likely find me at the back of the GA section.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
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    SuziemaySuziemay Posts: 11,165
    JimmyV wrote:
    I hope to never have GA tickets. If I ever do, lining up early, running inside and pushing my way to the front are things I have no interest in doing. So list or no list you would most likely find me at the back of the GA section.
    It's definitely a sacrifice I'm willing to make but wish I didn't have to. I'm debating whether I want to continue doing it to be honest but if I am, this system works for me.

    People will always line up early regardless.
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    RiverrunnerRiverrunner Posts: 2,419
    I never intended to arrive really early and wait. So when I arrived at 5:30 p.m. I was very pleasantly surprised that I was about 10-15 people deep. I had a great group around me. We stood there almost 3 hours. Others trickled in much closer to show time, but I thought it was worth the wait due to my good spot in front of Mike. Then the evacuation. I thought just my luck. The only time I will probably ever win the lottery and they are either going to cancel the show or I will lost my spot. Then to have to go through the physical misery of being in the bowels of Wrigley, shoulder to shoulder, with everyone sweating profusely due to the extreme heat, not even room to sit down. We were right next to a concession stand but the workers were told they could not sell us anything, including water. So for 3 hours we stood not being able to move. Then when we see the other side of the field rushing to GA while we were held back. They held us back and let the other group go first. People with seats were going in at the same time and there was a bottleneck. People without GA were jumping and going into GA. So we ended up towards the back with a couple of drunks trying to mosh pit - almost knocked me down twice. He was a shirtless fat guy and when he rammed into me - his slimy skin rubbed up against me. The third time I pushed back and he yelled "WHAT! YOU"RE PUSHING NOW!" He finally smoked a joint and left. I don't think he knew any of the songs. Anyway, it was a major disappointment. Definitely not the band's fault. I wonder if all of the critics of those of us who "lost their spot" were in GA themselves? Or is this just commentary from those who weren't in the same situation? If you were in the stands you were allowed to sit, cool off, buy a beer or water, and pretty much relax while the rest of us were treated like war criminals in the "tomb." (Yes, that's a slight exaggeration.) Anyway, after the slimy guy left and the 4 guys in front of me finally put down their phones so I could see a little, things got better. But still disappointed with Wrigley management for the uncontrolled way they left everyone back on the field and the conditions they made us stay in for those hours.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
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    DarbyCrashDarbyCrash Posts: 223
    I never intended to arrive really early and wait. So when I arrived at 5:30 p.m. I was very pleasantly surprised that I was about 10-15 people deep. I had a great group around me. We stood there almost 3 hours. Others trickled in much closer to show time, but I thought it was worth the wait due to my good spot in front of Mike. Then the evacuation. I thought just my luck. The only time I will probably ever win the lottery and they are either going to cancel the show or I will lost my spot. Then to have to go through the physical misery of being in the bowels of Wrigley, shoulder to shoulder, with everyone sweating profusely due to the extreme heat, not even room to sit down. We were right next to a concession stand but the workers were told they could not sell us anything, including water. So for 3 hours we stood not being able to move. Then when we see the other side of the field rushing to GA while we were held back. They held us back and let the other group go first. People with seats were going in at the same time and there was a bottleneck. People without GA were jumping and going into GA. So we ended up towards the back with a couple of drunks trying to mosh pit - almost knocked me down twice. He was a shirtless fat guy and when he rammed into me - his slimy skin rubbed up against me. The third time I pushed back and he yelled "WHAT! YOU"RE PUSHING NOW!" He finally smoked a joint and left. I don't think he knew any of the songs. Anyway, it was a major disappointment. Definitely not the band's fault. I wonder if all of the critics of those of us who "lost their spot" were in GA themselves? Or is this just commentary from those who weren't in the same situation? If you were in the stands you were allowed to sit, cool off, buy a beer or water, and pretty much relax while the rest of us were treated like war criminals in the "tomb." (Yes, that's a slight exaggeration.) Anyway, after the slimy guy left and the 4 guys in front of me finally put down their phones so I could see a little, things got better. But still disappointed with Wrigley management for the uncontrolled way they left everyone back on the field and the conditions they made us stay in for those hours.

    When I saw the other side being let in first I was devastated.
    I'm not lost, but I don't know where I am...David Byrne, Talking Heads

    Regal Theater, 1994--most amazing night ever.
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,654
    I am just wondering if anyone in GA basically knew what was going to happen? Because everyone in the stands saw the storm clouds coming before the show even started. That combined with Ed's comments about the possibity of having to stop and the weather forecast, a delay of the show seemed inevitable to me from the beginning. It was even discussed on the porch for the week leading up to the show. At length. Wasn't anyone mentally prepared for it??
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    London BridgeLondon Bridge USA Posts: 4,733
    crazygeo wrote:
    I don't care about no stinking list
    GA means free for all
    That's what it says on my ticket

    :thumbup:
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    RiverrunnerRiverrunner Posts: 2,419
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    I am just wondering if anyone in GA basically knew what was going to happen? Because everyone in the stands saw the storm clouds coming before the show even started. That combined with Ed's comments about the possibity of having to stop and the weather forecast, a delay of the show seemed inevitable to me from the beginning. It was even discussed on the porch for the week leading up to the show. At length. Wasn't anyone mentally prepared for it??

    I saw the weather report. I saw no storm clouds. I heard what Ed said. I was prepared to have to leave the field. I was not prepared to be sent to a 100 degree concrete concourse and made to stand (if I wanted back on the field) shoulder to shoulder for 3 hours with no food or water. Nor was I prepared to be let loose at the same time with no security whatsoever so that everyone who wanted to could go in the pit regardless of what bracelet one had on. Maybe I'm stupid or naive but I expected to be treated in a reasonable manner. I expected that wrigley personnel would at least tell us what was going on. I expected they would let us buy water. We knew nothing except when we saw the other side of the field rushing back in and we were told to stay put.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
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    Mamasan BrenMamasan Bren Posts: 959
    I find it interesting to read all the previous posts. The delay definitely made things crazy. But I still don't agree that one should be able to go shower, or be gone for long due to having their name on the list. I don't seem to see any post about this type of list abuse. You wait to earn a close view if you choose to. It's that earning part that the list seems to leave out as people go off to do whatever they please. Was there any noticing of much of that from you guys?
    1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II. 
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    JaneNYJaneNY Posts: 4,438
    Nor was I prepared to be let loose at the same time with no security whatsoever so that everyone who wanted to could go in the pit regardless of what bracelet one had on. Maybe I'm stupid or naive but I expected to be treated in a reasonable manner. I expected that wrigley personnel would at least tell us what was going on. I expected they would let us buy water. We knew nothing except when we saw the other side of the field rushing back in and we were told to stay put.

    Call me cynical but my feeling about security at venues is that their purpose is to make sure that no one gets hurt or bothers the 'talent'. The majority don't give a hoot about fairness to fans and who is standing where and who gets in first. Its just what I've observed. This may have been the show of a lifetime for the folks there, but its was just one more workday for workers there, and they are not going to care who started out in the pit and that those exact same people got back. Sucks, but I think that is the way it is.
    R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
    R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
    R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
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    RiverrunnerRiverrunner Posts: 2,419
    JaneNY wrote:
    Nor was I prepared to be let loose at the same time with no security whatsoever so that everyone who wanted to could go in the pit regardless of what bracelet one had on. Maybe I'm stupid or naive but I expected to be treated in a reasonable manner. I expected that wrigley personnel would at least tell us what was going on. I expected they would let us buy water. We knew nothing except when we saw the other side of the field rushing back in and we were told to stay put.

    Call me cynical but my feeling about security at venues is that their purpose is to make sure that no one gets hurt or bothers the 'talent'. The majority don't give a hoot about fairness to fans and who is standing where and who gets in first. Its just what I've observed. This may have been the show of a lifetime for the folks there, but its was just one more workday for workers there, and they are not going to care who started out in the pit and that those exact same people got back. Sucks, but I think that is the way it is.

    They sure cared at the start of the show. I had to show my ticket and two bracelets about 1/2 dozen times.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
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    EvenstevenEvensteven Posts: 868
    (from: http://pearljam.com/tenclub/events)

    Pearl Jam has decided to include a GA pit in front of the stage at each venue taking up 1/3 - 1/2 of the floor. Ten Club has acquired the entire GA pit for fan club members only; therefore there will not be a need for early entry. Please know there are less GA pit tickets available in the drawing then there are reserved seated tickets. If you are not interested in standing for the entirety of the show, do not enter the drawing for GA tickets.
    "Mark it 20, Dude."
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    Princess BulldozerPrincess Bulldozer Mannheim, Germany Posts: 952
    I find it interesting to read all the previous posts. The delay definitely made things crazy. But I still don't agree that one should be able to go shower, or be gone for long due to having their name on the list. I don't seem to see any post about this type of list abuse. You wait to earn a close view if you choose to. It's that earning part that the list seems to leave out as people go off to do whatever they please. Was there any noticing of much of that from you guys?

    I think SuzieMay touched on this.
    Suziemay wrote:
    It is not a list where people come, put down the names of 10 friends and then leave for the rest of the day. At Wrigley, we were all pretty much hanging around and checking in with each other when we left to go take showers or get lunch and stuff but for the most part everyone was on board and respectful.

    It seems most of the people were there all day hanging and chilling, no one abusing the system.
    Numbers just help at the last moment before doors. Enables you to find some shade, instead of standing in one straight line. That's how Europe 2012 worked anyway.
    Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure - science.
    ~Edwin Powell Hubble

    Men love to wonder, and that is the seed of science.
    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
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    LD_and happyLD_and happy Portland, OR Posts: 107
    Evensteven wrote:
    (from: http://pearljam.com/tenclub/events)

    Pearl Jam has decided to include a GA pit in front of the stage at each venue taking up 1/3 - 1/2 of the floor. Ten Club has acquired the entire GA pit for fan club members only; therefore there will not be a need for early entry. Please know there are less GA pit tickets available in the drawing then there are reserved seated tickets. If you are not interested in standing for the entirety of the show, do not enter the drawing for GA tickets.

    So what are you saying? I have GA tix for a show. Do I stand in line early? or is every 10c member playing nice and there is no GA line and we all enter together? (signal a Carpenter's song)
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    dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,216
    walk in 7:2- pm..was easy,safe,was like 10 rows back,could go easily to row 2-3,no pushing,no presure back there at 10th row,space to dance,all great!!
    double check,double wristbands,great job from club and the venue..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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