confederate flag: offensive or historical?

hedonist

BinauralJam wrote:

It's Both for some people.

It's Offensive to some people.

It's historical for some people.

Getting suspended for wearing it is ridiculous.

Agreed.

Also, some people get offended by American flags being displayed.

Last-12-Exit

South Carolina removed the confederate flag from the top of the capitol building in Columbia about 6 years ago or so and moved it elsewhere on the capitol grounds due to protests from its own citizens. (And a protest from Serena or Venus Williams refusing to participate in the family circle cup).
I also remember a story around the same time where a black student at (I believe) south Carolina state university was highly criticized for hanging a confederate flag in his dorm room.

That being said, as a transplant from Indiana to south Carolina, I have no feelings either way about the flag. People should have the right to hang the flag wherever they want and for a child to be suspended from school for wearing a shirt with the flag on it is absurd.

JTH

Last-12-Exit wrote:

...for a child to be suspended from school for wearing a shirt with the flag on it is absurd.

hedonist wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

Getting suspended for wearing it is ridiculous.

Agreed.

Also, some people get offended by American flags being displayed.

Just wondering, do you three know the circumstances that led to the suspension? Do you know the context in which the shirt was worn?

I sure don't. So maybe the suspension was absurd/ridiculous. Or maybe there was a very good reason for it.

Last-12-Exit

JTH wrote:

Last-12-Exit wrote:

...for a child to be suspended from school for wearing a shirt with the flag on it is absurd.

hedonist wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

Getting suspended for wearing it is ridiculous.

Agreed.

Also, some people get offended by American flags being displayed.

Just wondering, do you three know the circumstances that led to the suspension? Do you know the context in which the shirt was worn?

I sure don't. So maybe the suspension was absurd/ridiculous. Or maybe there was a very good reason for it.

Of course if the shirt had the flag on the front and said bring back slavery on the back there's a problem there. And no, I don't know the details, but if it was just a shirt with the flag on it (or NRA support) there should be no suspensions.

BinauralJam

JTH wrote:

I sure don't. So maybe the suspension was absurd/ridiculous. Or maybe there was a very good reason for it.

I see your point.

On a side note if that happened in my school, i would wear one the next day and get a week's vacation, and that's me.

JTH

Hold on a bit. Did this happen in Arizona? If so, it looks like there was no suspension and that the kid wasn't wearing a confederate flag shirt. He was wearing the flag as a cape...

...to celebrate REDNECK DAY.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/20130501queen-creek-high-redneck-day-angers-some.html?nclick_check=1

I think I'm officially in the ridiculous/absurd camp.

cincybearcat

Jason P wrote:

This mountain carving in Georgia which features Confederate Generals is getting some debate on whether it should be eliminated.





It's huge! I can't believe I had never heard of it before.

It started carving in 1928 and finished in 1972. It measures 90 feet by 200 feet.

Stone Mountain right?

even flow - question mark

As offensive as wearing a pot leaf, Che, any flag of a coutry I hate, any sports team I can't stand, curious george, superman, batman, flash, I'm with stupid, the "arrow", etc.!

gimmesometruth27

which flag are we talking about? the national flag or the battle flag?


First national flag with 13 stars
(November 28, 1861 – May 1, 1863)

or



Third National flag


or




The battle flag of the Army of Tennessee

mcgruff10

the flag in question is the battle flag.

riotgrl

pandora wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

The Confederate flag was created in 1861 as the flag of the seceded Confederate States. Why did they secede? Over states rights. Which state right was under debate? Oh yeah, slavery. This is NOT a symbol of southern heritage unless you still want to secede from the union which the Supreme Court ruled was unconstitutional. As someone said before, I am not offended I am angered by the fact that people not only continue to display the flag but that people still defend its use.

It is a symbol to some who lost family in the fight. Whether they agree it was a good fight or not
they will defend the memory of those lost. It is a matter of family, pride and courage,
worthy things to defend.

Defending someones military service is far different than defending their right to a symbol that denotes slavery and secession. If someone wants to exhibit pride in their southern heritage then I fully support that. But if you are aware of the history of the Confederate flag then I do not see how it can be defended as a symbol of southern heritage. It is a symbol of slavery and secession and I cannot defend those notions.

unsung

Historical.

Then again there's people that believe the civil war was fought over slavery.

pandora

riotgrl wrote:

pandora wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

The Confederate flag was created in 1861 as the flag of the seceded Confederate States. Why did they secede? Over states rights. Which state right was under debate? Oh yeah, slavery. This is NOT a symbol of southern heritage unless you still want to secede from the union which the Supreme Court ruled was unconstitutional. As someone said before, I am not offended I am angered by the fact that people not only continue to display the flag but that people still defend its use.

It is a symbol to some who lost family in the fight. Whether they agree it was a good fight or not
they will defend the memory of those lost. It is a matter of family, pride and courage,
worthy things to defend.

Defending someones military service is far different than defending their right to a symbol that denotes slavery and secession. If someone wants to exhibit pride in their southern heritage then I fully support that. But if you are aware of the history of the Confederate flag then I do not see how it can be defended as a symbol of southern heritage. It is a symbol of slavery and secession and I cannot defend those notions.

No you can't but many can who lost family. That symbol denotes something much different
than you can comprehend. It does not denote slavery or secession to many who fly it.
Experiencing this has helped me to understand that.

gimmesometruth27

unsung wrote:

Historical.

Then again there's people that believe the civil war was fought over slavery.

are you one of the people that calls it "the war of northern aggression"?

Last-12-Exit

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

unsung wrote:

Historical.

Then again there's people that believe the civil war was fought over slavery.

are you one of the people that calls it "the war of northern aggression"?

I'm not. But unsungs statement is true. The war was about what all wars are about, money.

Cosmo

I'm in the 'It depends upon how it is displayed' camp.
...
Sort of the same way we view the Reichskriegsflagge of 1938-1945 Germany. In this case, it is acceptable when used to display historical events, it is a historical depiction. When waved at public rallies in 2013, it becomes offensive.
Sometimes, things go a bit too far. Like if you want to build a plastic model of a Focke-Wulf FW-190... most model companies do not include the swastikas on the decal sheet. The Luftwaffe painted swastikas on the tails of their planes. I think the ommission to the decal sheet was based upon pressure because kids attaching swastikas on plastic models was/is considered bad to some people. Personally, I think that we cannot edit history. The swastika was a part of the war and its display in the machines used in that war do not change, simply because we don't like them.
...
Now, as to the people that see no harm in the display of the Confederate Battle flag. Again, it depends.
If it is depicted as it was used in its historical sense, such as civil War battle re-enactments or Civil War dioramas... then it is completely acceptable. We should not edit history to fit our perspectives.
But, there is no difference between someone displaying a Confederate Battle Flag or a German Reichskriegsflagge from his front porch or waving it at a public rally... especially a rally where politics are involved. The only acceptance to the latter would be if the rally was to secede from the union or an attempt to create a seperate Nazi nation on American soil. Because that would be something to be accepted.
Just like Swastika is okay on a little plastic model of a FW-190... not okay painted on the door of a Temple, The Confederate Battle Flag waving at a re-enactment of the First Battle at Fredricksberg is fine... waving from at a rally for civil rights... not so much.

riotgrl

pandora wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

pandora wrote:

It is a symbol to some who lost family in the fight. Whether they agree it was a good fight or not
they will defend the memory of those lost. It is a matter of family, pride and courage,
worthy things to defend.

Defending someones military service is far different than defending their right to a symbol that denotes slavery and secession. If someone wants to exhibit pride in their southern heritage then I fully support that. But if you are aware of the history of the Confederate flag then I do not see how it can be defended as a symbol of southern heritage. It is a symbol of slavery and secession and I cannot defend those notions.

No you can't but many can who lost family. That symbol denotes something much different
than you can comprehend. It does not denote slavery or secession to many who fly it.
Experiencing this has helped me to understand that.

As a life long resident of the south, I CAN comprehend what that symbol denotes. It does denote slavery and secession. Just because people CHOOSE to make it mean something else, like southern heritage or honoring the dead, does not take away from the original intent of the creation of the flag.

riotgrl

unsung wrote:

Historical.

Then again there's people that believe the civil war was fought over slavery.

As I stated before, the Civil War was fought over states rights, the state right in question was SLAVERY.

gimmesometruth27

Last-12-Exit wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

unsung wrote:

Historical.

Then again there's people that believe the civil war was fought over slavery.

are you one of the people that calls it "the war of northern aggression"?

I'm not. But unsungs statement is true. The war was about what all wars are about, money.

it was economic, in the sense that the plantation owners not wanting to pay the workers they had working for them. their economy was based on cheep/free labor

---

> slavery.

if it was the war or northern aggression, who again fired the first shots at ft. sumter?

JonnyPistachio

I also wont judge because everyone needs something to hide their guns under in the back window of their truck.
Im just kidding, just kidding... kinda..