I understand what you're saying. But it's textbook fact what the war was about. Are they not teaching factual history in the South in schools, to "preserve heritage"?
I'm not denying what the war was about, and I don't think Binaural is either. I'm merely conceding a point - that being the possibility that there were other reasons in addition to slavery that the war was fought about - to prove my ultimate point: that at the very least, the Confederate flag stands for, whether in full or part, slavery.
I'm agreeing with you. (sorry for any miscommunication)
i had a good friend whose ancestors fought and died for the confederacy and he is also related to civil war vets who were in the klan. he has pictures of those that died hung on his walls along with paintings of confederate soldiers. he has a confederate battle flag in his basement as well. my skin crawls being in his house and how he appeared to celebrate the confederacy. we got in fistfights over it before while drunk a few times. he also does not like african americans and said on several occasions that the south should have won the war. i do not hang out with the guy anymore though, for several reasons, but this is one of the big ones.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i had a good friend whose ancestors fought and died for the confederacy and he is also related to civil war vets who were in the klan. he has pictures of those that died hung on his walls along with paintings of confederate soldiers. he has a confederate battle flag in his basement as well. my skin crawls being in his house and how he appeared to celebrate the confederacy. we got in fistfights over it before while drunk a few times. he also does not like african americans and said on several occasions that the south should have won the war. i do not hang out with the guy anymore though, for several reasons, but this is one of the big ones.
Your in-laws sound like nice people, but for the same reasons any group might try to cover up, ignore, distance themselves from or explain away an ugly historical fact, Southerners persist in arguing that the Confederacy wasn't at least in part (a large part, most would argue) about preserving the institution of slavery. In some cases (now, for instance), doing so can serve a political purpose. In others, doing so can allow someone to leave their heritage unstained (your nice in-laws, for example). In all cases, doing so obscures the truth.
I understand what you're saying. But it's textbook fact what the war was about. Are they not teaching factual history in the South in schools, to "preserve heritage"?
What textbook are you referring to? I was raised and educated in northwest Indiana and was taught that the civil war was started over money evolved into a slavery issue. My daughter's are being raised and educated about 50 miles away from fort Sumter and they are being taught the same thing in their school.
That being said, is it not a person's right to fly whatever flag he or she wants in this country?
I understand what you are saying and agree that the civil war was,in part, about taxation. However, I think that saying it was entirely a taxation issue that evolved into an issue about slavery leaves out some very important information about the causes of the Civil War. I'm not doubting what you learned but I am confused as to why a teacher would leave out the issue of manifest destiny and American territorial expansion that led to debate after debate and compromise after compromise which had very little to do with taxation and more to do with slavery.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Defending someones military service is far different than defending their right to a symbol that denotes slavery and secession. If someone wants to exhibit pride in their southern heritage then I fully support that. But if you are aware of the history of the Confederate flag then I do not see how it can be defended as a symbol of southern heritage. It is a symbol of slavery and secession and I cannot defend those notions.
No you can't but many can who lost family. That symbol denotes something much different
than you can comprehend. It does not denote slavery or secession to many who fly it. Experiencing this has helped me to understand that.
As a life long resident of the south, I CAN comprehend what that symbol denotes. It does denote slavery and secession. Just because people CHOOSE to make it mean something else, like southern heritage or honoring the dead, does not take away from the original intent of the creation of the flag.
Guess you experience something much different... or CHOOSE to.
As a life long resident of the south, I CAN comprehend what that symbol denotes. It does denote slavery and secession. Just because people CHOOSE to make it mean something else, like southern heritage or honoring the dead, does not take away from the original intent of the creation of the flag.
Guess you experience something much different... or CHOOSE to.
Quick question, Pandora what do you think the Civil War was about?
Historic because it existed in the past and represents pride in the South to some people.
Offensive because pride in the old South often means that people are wishing for The Old Ways. The Old Ways included keeping an entire group of people down. It included holding people in slavery. This is the offensive part!! :x
Sorry, but there's no way to look at that flag without the pain of remembering that some people were held as less-than-human during that period. :(
It is also a symbolizes being a Rebel.....who rebels....kids.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
As a life long resident of the south, I CAN comprehend what that symbol denotes. It does denote slavery and secession. Just because people CHOOSE to make it mean something else, like southern heritage or honoring the dead, does not take away from the original intent of the creation of the flag.
Guess you experience something much different... or CHOOSE to.
Quick question, Pandora what do you think the Civil War was about?
...
Thank Google and Wikipedia in advance for your answer.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Historic because it existed in the past and represents pride in the South to some people.
Offensive because pride in the old South often means that people are wishing for The Old Ways. The Old Ways included keeping an entire group of people down. It included holding people in slavery. This is the offensive part!! :x
Sorry, but there's no way to look at that flag without the pain of remembering that some people were held as less-than-human during that period. :(
exactly!
shown in museums and reinactments etc. in a strictly historical context it's okay
just because one of my great, great grandfathers (he didn't own slaves) fought for the confederacy and spent time held in an Union prison camp doesn't mean i wanna display, see or have a confederate flag. since it does symbolize slavery (to whatever degree) and many are descened from those people that spent their entire lives held as slaves find it highly offensive...i also view it as offensive
besides if displaying it is all about southern family reverance :roll: then i'd have to display the union flag too since another of my great, great grandpa's fought for the union
i grew up in virginia (around many civil war sites and battlefields) it's always been pretty clear to me that those displaying the confederate flag are largely ignorant and bigoted...they do it to show their superority complex with the full intention of offending others
A very spirited and very intellectual arguement and for that I thank all of you. A kid in my last period class asked what I thought about the kid being suspended..... I thought about it for a few long seconds and I said as much as I don't support the symbolism behind the confederate flag I support our rights in the first amendment.
I personally feel that the confederate flag is a symbol of secession and slavery and don't support it.
And the way I teach history and have been taught is that it was a war to restore the United States. This happened because of the issue of states rights; case in point, the issue of slavery. How can a unified nation exist if states only follow the laws they want to?
No you can't but many can who lost family. That symbol denotes something much different
than you can comprehend. It does not denote slavery or secession to many who fly it. Experiencing this has helped me to understand that.
As a life long resident of the south, I CAN comprehend what that symbol denotes. It does denote slavery and secession. Just because people CHOOSE to make it mean something else, like southern heritage or honoring the dead, does not take away from the original intent of the creation of the flag.
Guess you experience something much different... or CHOOSE to.
Choose to experience something different? I don't understand that. I CHOOSE to understand the history of both the flag and unconstitutional secession of 11 states, states that CHOSE to disregard the Constitution.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
If anyone thinks for a moment that a single drop of Union blood was willingly shed with the mindset of freeing slaves, then they definitely need to research the subject a bit more.
It could easily be argued that the Union flag is even more "offensive" for even greater reasons.
If anyone thinks for a moment that a single drop of Union blood was willingly shed with the mindset of freeing slaves, then they definitely need to research the subject a bit more.
It could easily be argued that the Union flag is even more "offensive" for even greater reasons.
...
The Union soldiers were following the marching orders of the United States of America. The goal was to preserve the Union and prevent the South from becoming a competative nation.
Most of America (including many in the North) at that time didn't give a shit about the slaves.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
If anyone thinks for a moment that a single drop of Union blood was willingly shed with the mindset of freeing slaves, then they definitely need to research the subject a bit more.
It could easily be argued that the Union flag is even more "offensive" for even greater reasons.
Oh, absolutely, the North was probably more racist than the South. But I'm not sure I understand your argument that the US flag is more offensive that the Confederate flag - elaborate?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
If anyone thinks for a moment that a single drop of Union blood was willingly shed with the mindset of freeing slaves, then they definitely need to research the subject a bit more.
It could easily be argued that the Union flag is even more "offensive" for even greater reasons.
...
The Union soldiers were following the marching orders of the United States of America. The goal was to preserve the Union and prevent the South from becoming a competative nation.
Most of America (including many in the North) at that time didn't give a shit about the slaves.
Long term though I don't think the South would have remained very competitive with a one note economy based entirely on single crop agriculture. Perhaps the North understood that while the South was really trying to preserve their way of life?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
If anyone thinks for a moment that a single drop of Union blood was willingly shed with the mindset of freeing slaves, then they definitely need to research the subject a bit more.
It could easily be argued that the Union flag is even more "offensive" for even greater reasons.
...
The Union soldiers were following the marching orders of the United States of America. The goal was to preserve the Union and prevent the South from becoming a competative nation.
Most of America (including many in the North) at that time didn't give a shit about the slaves.
Long term though I don't think the South would have remained very competitive with a one note economy based entirely on single crop agriculture. Perhaps the North understood that while the South was really trying to preserve their way of life?
...
But, they did not know that the agricultural South not be able to compete in the impending industrial boom... at that time. One of the contributing factors that lead to the Civil War was a land grab for the Louisianna Territory and how to govern the territories.
It was not solely about the slavery issue... although slavery did play a large role in it. The Civile War was not a war to 'Free The Slaves'... it was a war to control the massive potential of agricultural fortunes in the mid-Western plains of this fairly recently acquired land.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
If anyone thinks for a moment that a single drop of Union blood was willingly shed with the mindset of freeing slaves, then they definitely need to research the subject a bit more.
It could easily be argued that the Union flag is even more "offensive" for even greater reasons.
I'll take you up on that. There are plenty of union soldiers journals that have survived in which the authors state that they are fighting for the preservation of the Union and for the "dignity of all men." John Brown waged an insurrection for that very cause, one in which dozens were killed and he himself was ultimately hanged. Hanging doesn't usually result in a "drop of blood" being shed...but I know you're not nitpicking.
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It's meant to be for southern pride. Nothing more.
The Germans used
for that thing.
The Japanese have used the same symbol for thousands of years before. Cultures older than them used it.
The swastika, in the Japanese sense, can mean a number of positive things from strength to compassion.
The bottom line is that when you see a swastika in Japan, it’s not some anti-Semitic symbol; it’s usually used as a positive symbol of Buddhism. I definitely understand why the swastika has such an incredibly negative connotation in the West, but the thousands of years of history that Japan has with the swastika overrides the awful associations that much of the Western world has with it.
And, with all the horrific things that the Nazis/Racists did, it's hard not to associate the swastika/confederate symbols as the brand of terror and hate. Images on a flag.... plastered over anything you can think of – cars, banners, uniforms, arm bands, and so on.
It’s kind of amazing, really a wonderful peaceful symbol can be transformed, a symbol that had been around for hundreds/ thousands of years from something positive to something negative.
For me, the confederate flag reminds me that the United States fought a horrible, bloody, ugly battle. So many of Americans died for stupid reasons. It is a reminder to love and respect your neighbor. Never let it happen again.
Taking pride in flags is stupid to begin with. Its a state symbol, if you take actual pride in a symbol, and find some kind of your identity in a state symbol, you might want to check yourself.
Coming from that angle, I suppose i have a bias...
but I see it like this...
If you KNOW that a shitload of people find it offensive....and you are multiple generations removed from any kind of meaningful attachment to YOU as an individual....does your supposed pride in your heritage, and whatever kick it gives you to support your ancestors, trump the feelings of the people you are making feel small, angry, and oppressed in the here and now? Or do you just not give a fuck and are a bit of a douche?
I honestly think that some people who fly the flag are just ignorant as fuck and see it as something from the Dukes of Hazard. You people are assuming these dumbasses know history......
(My bro in law had the flag on a license plate in the back window of a truck he bought...he drove around with it for months before I said something to my sister...at which point he took it down, realizing what it meant...yes, even rednecks in Canada fly the flag....further support to the offensive side since it has no possible positive historical value up here)
All said....fly the flag, I appreciate the zero-effort judgment
Taking pride in flags is stupid to begin with. Its a state symbol, if you take actual pride in a symbol, and find some kind of your identity in a state symbol, you might want to check yourself.
Coming from that angle, I suppose i have a bias...
but I see it like this...
If you KNOW that a shitload of people find it offensive....and you are multiple generations removed from any kind of meaningful attachment to YOU as an individual....does your supposed pride in your heritage, and whatever kick it gives you to support your ancestors, trump the feelings of the people you are making feel small, angry, and oppressed in the here and now? Or do you just not give a fuck and are a bit of a douche?
I honestly think that some people who fly the flag are just ignorant as fuck and see it as something from the Dukes of Hazard. You people are assuming these dumbasses know history......
(My bro in law had the flag on a license plate in the back window of a truck he bought...he drove around with it for months before I said something to my sister...at which point he took it down, realizing what it meant...yes, even rednecks in Canada fly the flag....further support to the offensive side since it has no possible positive historical value up here)
All said....fly the flag, I appreciate the zero-effort judgment
I don't fly any flags. Only my Pearl Jam Freak Flag... if they had one. But yes ignorant frucks enjoy the flags and cartoons.
I DO know my history, more than I ever wanted to. The confederate flag is symbolism for respect, and pride.
I don't find it at all offensive. It is only the uneducated that believe it means something else, I find bad.
A small percent of people here will ever dive deep enough to know. You can't ask a music forum. :nono:
Truth lies in truth. It takes some people YEARS, to seek this answer. Knowledge is powerful.
It means rebel to a certain degree... but only because it :fp: I'm not talking about this.
...
The Union soldiers were following the marching orders of the United States of America. The goal was to preserve the Union and prevent the South from becoming a competative nation.
Most of America (including many in the North) at that time didn't give a shit about the slaves.
Long term though I don't think the South would have remained very competitive with a one note economy based entirely on single crop agriculture. Perhaps the North understood that while the South was really trying to preserve their way of life?
...
But, they did not know that the agricultural South not be able to compete in the impending industrial boom... at that time. One of the contributing factors that lead to the Civil War was a land grab for the Louisianna Territory and how to govern the territories.
It was not solely about the slavery issue... although slavery did play a large role in it. The Civile War was not a war to 'Free The Slaves'... it was a war to control the massive potential of agricultural fortunes in the mid-Western plains of this fairly recently acquired land.
I disagree that the North did not know that the South couldn't compete. The North had been moving towards a manufacturing based economy for the entirety of the 19th century while the South continued to focus totally on an agriculture based economy (which is part of the reason for their ultimate defeat in the war). As I stated in a previous post, the massive territorial expansion brought to light the large economic differences between North and South and how to control these new territories - the bulk of the argument over governance was about slavery - Crittenden Compromise, Kansas-Nebraska Act, popular sovereignty, Compromise of 1850, the Wilmot Proviso and on and on. My ultimate point has been not to reduce this war to an argument about economics - that was a part of it, a large part of it, but slavery and states rights played just as large of a role. That argument is why I find the Confederate flag angering.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Taking pride in flags is stupid to begin with. Its a state symbol, if you take actual pride in a symbol, and find some kind of your identity in a state symbol, you might want to check yourself.
Coming from that angle, I suppose i have a bias...
but I see it like this...
If you KNOW that a shitload of people find it offensive....and you are multiple generations removed from any kind of meaningful attachment to YOU as an individual....does your supposed pride in your heritage, and whatever kick it gives you to support your ancestors, trump the feelings of the people you are making feel small, angry, and oppressed in the here and now? Or do you just not give a fuck and are a bit of a douche?
I honestly think that some people who fly the flag are just ignorant as fuck and see it as something from the Dukes of Hazard. You people are assuming these dumbasses know history......
(My bro in law had the flag on a license plate in the back window of a truck he bought...he drove around with it for months before I said something to my sister...at which point he took it down, realizing what it meant...yes, even rednecks in Canada fly the flag....further support to the offensive side since it has no possible positive historical value up here)
All said....fly the flag, I appreciate the zero-effort judgment
I don't fly any flags. Only my Pearl Jam Freak Flag... if they had one. But yes ignorant frucks enjoy the flags and cartoons.
I DO know my history, more than I ever wanted to. The confederate flag is symbolism for respect, and pride.
I don't find it at all offensive. It is only the uneducated that believe it means something else, I find bad.
A small percent of people here will ever dive deep enough to know. You can't ask a music forum. :nono:
Truth lies in truth. It takes some people YEARS, to seek this answer. Knowledge is powerful.
It means rebel to a certain degree... but only because it :fp: I'm not talking about this.
How is this flag a symbol for respect and pride? If you understand the history of the South and you understand the history of the Civil War then you know that, in part, this war was fought so that Southerners could protect their way of life. A way of life built on agriculture. A way of life built on a farming system that required nominal cash input to maintain the life (food, shelter, clothing and that is pretty much it) of a slave.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Comments
I'm agreeing with you. (sorry for any miscommunication)
I agree with you.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I understand what you are saying and agree that the civil war was,in part, about taxation. However, I think that saying it was entirely a taxation issue that evolved into an issue about slavery leaves out some very important information about the causes of the Civil War. I'm not doubting what you learned but I am confused as to why a teacher would leave out the issue of manifest destiny and American territorial expansion that led to debate after debate and compromise after compromise which had very little to do with taxation and more to do with slavery.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Quick question, Pandora what do you think the Civil War was about?
Historic because it existed in the past and represents pride in the South to some people.
Offensive because pride in the old South often means that people are wishing for The Old Ways. The Old Ways included keeping an entire group of people down. It included holding people in slavery. This is the offensive part!! :x
Sorry, but there's no way to look at that flag without the pain of remembering that some people were held as less-than-human during that period. :(
Thank Google and Wikipedia in advance for your answer.
Hail, Hail!!!
Rebels against who/what?
Hail, Hail!!!
(couldn't resist)
Hail, Hail!!!
exactly!
shown in museums and reinactments etc. in a strictly historical context it's okay
just because one of my great, great grandfathers (he didn't own slaves) fought for the confederacy and spent time held in an Union prison camp doesn't mean i wanna display, see or have a confederate flag. since it does symbolize slavery (to whatever degree) and many are descened from those people that spent their entire lives held as slaves find it highly offensive...i also view it as offensive
besides if displaying it is all about southern family reverance :roll: then i'd have to display the union flag too since another of my great, great grandpa's fought for the union
i grew up in virginia (around many civil war sites and battlefields) it's always been pretty clear to me that those displaying the confederate flag are largely ignorant and bigoted...they do it to show their superority complex with the full intention of offending others
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I personally feel that the confederate flag is a symbol of secession and slavery and don't support it.
And the way I teach history and have been taught is that it was a war to restore the United States. This happened because of the issue of states rights; case in point, the issue of slavery. How can a unified nation exist if states only follow the laws they want to?
Choose to experience something different? I don't understand that. I CHOOSE to understand the history of both the flag and unconstitutional secession of 11 states, states that CHOSE to disregard the Constitution.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
It could easily be argued that the Union flag is even more "offensive" for even greater reasons.
The Union soldiers were following the marching orders of the United States of America. The goal was to preserve the Union and prevent the South from becoming a competative nation.
Most of America (including many in the North) at that time didn't give a shit about the slaves.
Hail, Hail!!!
Oh, absolutely, the North was probably more racist than the South. But I'm not sure I understand your argument that the US flag is more offensive that the Confederate flag - elaborate?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Long term though I don't think the South would have remained very competitive with a one note economy based entirely on single crop agriculture. Perhaps the North understood that while the South was really trying to preserve their way of life?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
But, they did not know that the agricultural South not be able to compete in the impending industrial boom... at that time. One of the contributing factors that lead to the Civil War was a land grab for the Louisianna Territory and how to govern the territories.
It was not solely about the slavery issue... although slavery did play a large role in it. The Civile War was not a war to 'Free The Slaves'... it was a war to control the massive potential of agricultural fortunes in the mid-Western plains of this fairly recently acquired land.
Hail, Hail!!!
Not just them
I'll take you up on that. There are plenty of union soldiers journals that have survived in which the authors state that they are fighting for the preservation of the Union and for the "dignity of all men." John Brown waged an insurrection for that very cause, one in which dozens were killed and he himself was ultimately hanged. Hanging doesn't usually result in a "drop of blood" being shed...but I know you're not nitpicking.
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2024-09-29 Ohana 2
The Germans used
for that thing.
The Japanese have used the same symbol for thousands of years before. Cultures older than them used it.
The swastika, in the Japanese sense, can mean a number of positive things from strength to compassion.
The bottom line is that when you see a swastika in Japan, it’s not some anti-Semitic symbol; it’s usually used as a positive symbol of Buddhism. I definitely understand why the swastika has such an incredibly negative connotation in the West, but the thousands of years of history that Japan has with the swastika overrides the awful associations that much of the Western world has with it.
And, with all the horrific things that the Nazis/Racists did, it's hard not to associate the swastika/confederate symbols as the brand of terror and hate. Images on a flag.... plastered over anything you can think of – cars, banners, uniforms, arm bands, and so on.
It’s kind of amazing, really a wonderful peaceful symbol can be transformed, a symbol that had been around for hundreds/ thousands of years from something positive to something negative.
For me, the confederate flag reminds me that the United States fought a horrible, bloody, ugly battle. So many of Americans died for stupid reasons. It is a reminder to love and respect your neighbor. Never let it happen again.
Coming from that angle, I suppose i have a bias...
but I see it like this...
If you KNOW that a shitload of people find it offensive....and you are multiple generations removed from any kind of meaningful attachment to YOU as an individual....does your supposed pride in your heritage, and whatever kick it gives you to support your ancestors, trump the feelings of the people you are making feel small, angry, and oppressed in the here and now? Or do you just not give a fuck and are a bit of a douche?
I honestly think that some people who fly the flag are just ignorant as fuck and see it as something from the Dukes of Hazard. You people are assuming these dumbasses know history......
(My bro in law had the flag on a license plate in the back window of a truck he bought...he drove around with it for months before I said something to my sister...at which point he took it down, realizing what it meant...yes, even rednecks in Canada fly the flag....further support to the offensive side since it has no possible positive historical value up here)
All said....fly the flag, I appreciate the zero-effort judgment
I don't fly any flags. Only my Pearl Jam Freak Flag... if they had one. But yes ignorant frucks enjoy the flags and cartoons.
I DO know my history, more than I ever wanted to. The confederate flag is symbolism for respect, and pride.
I don't find it at all offensive. It is only the uneducated that believe it means something else, I find bad.
A small percent of people here will ever dive deep enough to know. You can't ask a music forum. :nono:
Truth lies in truth. It takes some people YEARS, to seek this answer. Knowledge is powerful.
It means rebel to a certain degree... but only because it :fp: I'm not talking about this.
I disagree that the North did not know that the South couldn't compete. The North had been moving towards a manufacturing based economy for the entirety of the 19th century while the South continued to focus totally on an agriculture based economy (which is part of the reason for their ultimate defeat in the war). As I stated in a previous post, the massive territorial expansion brought to light the large economic differences between North and South and how to control these new territories - the bulk of the argument over governance was about slavery - Crittenden Compromise, Kansas-Nebraska Act, popular sovereignty, Compromise of 1850, the Wilmot Proviso and on and on. My ultimate point has been not to reduce this war to an argument about economics - that was a part of it, a large part of it, but slavery and states rights played just as large of a role. That argument is why I find the Confederate flag angering.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
How is this flag a symbol for respect and pride? If you understand the history of the South and you understand the history of the Civil War then you know that, in part, this war was fought so that Southerners could protect their way of life. A way of life built on agriculture. A way of life built on a farming system that required nominal cash input to maintain the life (food, shelter, clothing and that is pretty much it) of a slave.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE