confederate flag: offensive or historical?

chadwick

i am offended when partiers at campsites raise their rebel flags. i've seen this & i know for a fact that they are without a doubt prejudice. how do i know this? because i personally know them & i believe they are disgusting as they dislike dark skinned folks.

truthfully prejudice rebel flag raisers should be beat with pipes

JimmyV

Slavery ---> Secession ---> Civil War ---> Pearl Jam does not tour the South

No Slavery ---> No Secession ---> No Civil War ---> Pearl Jam would tour the South

It all comes back to slavery.

Last-12-Exit

JimmyV wrote:

Slavery ---> Secession ---> Civil War ---> Pearl Jam does not tour the South

No Slavery ---> No Secession ---> No Civil War ---> Pearl Jam would tour the South

It all comes back to slavery.

More like, slavery

---

>south refuses to pay taxes on slaves or profits off slaves

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>government mandates plantation owners to pay taxes

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>succession

---

>civil war

The government (north) didn't give a rats ass that slavery existed. The government simply wanted their piece of the action.

I don't disagree that the war ended up being about slavery. But that is not why it started.

gimmesometruth27

either way, i think we all have seen people that have worn or flown that battle flag as a sign of white supremacy. i hate that flag. even in a museum, i hate the idea behind that flag.

vant0037

I think "offensive" is the wrong word. It might be semantics, but the backlash against political correctness has deemed words like "offensive" to refer to things that limp-wristed liberals unjustifiably find fault with, rather than something that is truly out of place or objectionable for nefarious reasons. I think a reasonable debate over a flag which was the symbol of a group that enslaved human beings merits better treatment than with politically charged language.

So...with that in mind...

If you believe the people who fly the Confederate flag are doing so out of support for or reverence for or respect for the Confederate side in a war that fought for states' rights, then why don't those people fly their state flag instead? In other words, why have they chosen the Confederate flag - a flag which represented the central confederacy of states who fought for, among other things, slaver's rights - to fly on their trucks or homes, unless they supported exactly what that Confederacy waged war for?

Sure, the flag is historical to some and offensive to others. The argument about which it is, I'll leave to the rest of you. But let's at least stop this blind eye nonsense: the Confederacy, at least in some part, stood for slavery or support for that institution. Seem to me if you didn't support that institution, you might be flying a different flag.

Jason P

Which protects your home better? An ADT sign in the front yard or a confederate flag hanging on your front window?

:think:

Bentleyspop

Jason P wrote:

Which protects your home better? An ADT sign in the front yard or a confederate flag hanging on your front window?

:think:

Depends on your neighborhood

BinauralJam

I'm a New Yorker, i was taught it was about slavery. I married a southern girl with very intelligent parents, one from Virgina and one from North Carolina. They can break it down step by step what lead to what and how it had nothing to do with slavery, i love and respect these people, but i'm not buying it for a second.

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

My in-laws see it as Heritage, and these are some pacifist peace loving fundamentalist christian types.

Jeanwah

BinauralJam wrote:

I'm a New Yorker, i was taught it was about slavery. I married a southern girl with very intelligent parents, one from Virgina and one from North Carolina. They can break it down step by step what lead to what and how it had nothing to do with slavery, i love and respect these people, but i'm not buying it for a second.

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

My in-laws see it as Heritage, and these are some pacifist peace loving fundamentalist christian types.

So your in-laws are denying that the war was about slavery?

vant0037

BinauralJam wrote:

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

Your in-laws sound like nice people, but for the same reasons any group might try to cover up, ignore, distance themselves from or explain away an ugly historical fact, Southerners persist in arguing that the Confederacy wasn't at least in part (a large part, most would argue) about preserving the institution of slavery. In some cases (now, for instance), doing so can serve a political purpose. In others, doing so can allow someone to leave their heritage unstained (your nice in-laws, for example). In all cases, doing so obscures the truth.

Go Beavers

BinauralJam wrote:

I'm a New Yorker, i was taught it was about slavery. I married a southern girl with very intelligent parents, one from Virgina and one from North Carolina. They can break it down step by step what lead to what and how it had nothing to do with slavery, i love and respect these people, but i'm not buying it for a second.

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

My in-laws see it as Heritage, and these are some pacifist peace loving fundamentalist christian types.

Out West, I see it like this: Confederate flag waving from the house: neo-nazi lives here. Flag on the truck: most or all red-neck stereotypes apply to me.

Jeanwah

vant0037 wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

Your in-laws sound like nice people, but for the same reasons any group might try to cover up, ignore, distance themselves from or explain away an ugly historical fact, Southerners persist in arguing that the Confederacy wasn't at least in part (a large part, most would argue) about preserving the institution of slavery. In some cases (now, for instance), doing so can serve a political purpose. In others, doing so can allow someone to leave their heritage unstained (your nice in-laws, for example). In all cases, doing so obscures the truth.

I understand what you're saying. But it's textbook fact what the war was about. Are they not teaching factual history in the South in schools, to "preserve heritage"?

BinauralJam

Jeanwah wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

I'm a New Yorker, i was taught it was about slavery. I married a southern girl with very intelligent parents, one from Virgina and one from North Carolina. They can break it down step by step what lead to what and how it had nothing to do with slavery, i love and respect these people, but i'm not buying it for a second.

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

My in-laws see it as Heritage, and these are some pacifist peace loving fundamentalist christian types.

So your in-laws are denying that the war was about slavery?

Absolutely, we've had long spirited discussions on the subject, not any more because it's upsets my wife, but when i first met them, oh boy.

BinauralJam

vant0037 wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

Your in-laws sound like nice people, but for the same reasons any group might try to cover up, ignore, distance themselves from or explain away an ugly historical fact, Southerners persist in arguing that the Confederacy wasn't at least in part (a large part, most would argue) about preserving the institution of slavery. In some cases (now, for instance), doing so can serve a political purpose. In others, doing so can allow someone to leave their heritage unstained (your nice in-laws, for example). In all cases, doing so obscures the truth.

It makes it hard to argue with them because their not gun waving personal freedom people, but more like intelligent hippie's, beatnicks i guess. It's hard to look them in the eye and say, "but you are defending slavery", because their not, but they are defending the south's history.

Last-12-Exit

Jeanwah wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

Your in-laws sound like nice people, but for the same reasons any group might try to cover up, ignore, distance themselves from or explain away an ugly historical fact, Southerners persist in arguing that the Confederacy wasn't at least in part (a large part, most would argue) about preserving the institution of slavery. In some cases (now, for instance), doing so can serve a political purpose. In others, doing so can allow someone to leave their heritage unstained (your nice in-laws, for example). In all cases, doing so obscures the truth.

I understand what you're saying. But it's textbook fact what the war was about. Are they not teaching factual history in the South in schools, to "preserve heritage"?

What textbook are you referring to? I was raised and educated in northwest Indiana and was taught that the civil war was started over money evolved into a slavery issue. My daughter's are being raised and educated about 50 miles away from fort Sumter and they are being taught the same thing in their school.

That being said, is it not a person's right to fly whatever flag he or she wants in this country?

chadwick

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

either way, i think we all have seen people that have worn or flown that battle flag as a sign of white supremacy. i hate that flag. even in a museum, i hate the idea behind that flag.

reminds me of a nazi symbol which makes my skin crawl

chadwick

Go Beavers wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

I'm a New Yorker, i was taught it was about slavery. I married a southern girl with very intelligent parents, one from Virgina and one from North Carolina. They can break it down step by step what lead to what and how it had nothing to do with slavery, i love and respect these people, but i'm not buying it for a second.

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

My in-laws see it as Heritage, and these are some pacifist peace loving fundamentalist christian types.

Out West, I see it like this: Confederate flag waving from the house: neo-nazi lives here. Flag on the truck: most or all red-neck stereotypes apply to me.

agreed

vant0037

Jeanwah wrote:

I understand what you're saying. But it's textbook fact what the war was about. Are they not teaching factual history in the South in schools, to "preserve heritage"?

I'm not denying what the war was about, and I don't think Binaural is either. I'm merely conceding a point - that being the possibility that there were other reasons in addition to slavery that the war was fought about - to prove my ultimate point: that at the very least, the Confederate flag stands for, whether in full or part, slavery.

chadwick

Last-12-Exit wrote:

That being said, is it not a person's right to fly whatever flag he or she wants in this country?

it antagonizes some people into the desire of bashing someone's skull in.

drunken rednecks at the lake enjoying their campsite & waving their rebel flag. a group of inner city thugs are wanting to enjoy the lake.

conflicting interests

Jeanwah

BinauralJam wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

I'm a New Yorker, i was taught it was about slavery. I married a southern girl with very intelligent parents, one from Virgina and one from North Carolina. They can break it down step by step what lead to what and how it had nothing to do with slavery, i love and respect these people, but i'm not buying it for a second.

Conclusion: you'll never convince a Northerner it wasn't about Slavery and you'll never convince a Southerner it was.

My in-laws see it as Heritage, and these are some pacifist peace loving fundamentalist christian types.

So your in-laws are denying that the war was about slavery?

Absolutely, we've had long spirited discussions on the subject, not any more because it's upsets my wife, but when i first met them, oh boy.

No offense, but Wow.