Obviously the guy is a fucking creep, since he's incapable of considering the fact that it is the responsibility of the would-be rapist to not rape someone no matter what, even if the woman is lying there naked except for a big red bow .... But the school is totally right in allowing him to do his thing, what with free speech and all. They would be very wrong to stop him. And frankly, when someone's message is THAT ludicrous on a university campus, I'm not even that bothered by it. He just looks like a fucking asshole, and no one is worse for wear in that atmosphere. It actually serves to bring awareness to the exact opposite message that he's trying to convey.
exactly ... is that the plan too? it certainly worked
freedom of speech is awesome! layers and layers, action reaction, thought and opinion provoking...
That, together with the smart woman (or whatever woman) being modest, understanding men.... Definitely putting the onus on the woman not to be raped (and if not, she would be 'asking for it') as opposed to the man/rapist not committing this vile act.
It's a bit feeling that a woman suffering from domestic violence didn't do enough to please her man or maybe wasn't nice enough,etc. The 'wonder what she did to deserve that?' thing...
Also, I feel it's putting all men in the same boat. Which again, is totally wrong.
I just had to say something to these outrageous comments (then again.. bait?) but, as you Jean, will ignore from here on out.
My plan is to empower women on every level ...
how are you redrock going to change the vile men and stop rape?
A rape that happens every how many minutes? Do you have a plan?
Rape is a lot like domestic violence.
Thankfully we are seeing women becoming more empowered in these situations.
Better than 50 years ago but no where near where it should be for so many reasons.
Women choosing not to get involved with men who are violent. Leaving, protecting their children.
Teaching their children. Setting examples.
We have some houses here to help those who need to escape. We need more.
I worked to help one recently. Inspiring to help. I plan on doing much more.
I hope other ladies here on the board are putting actions where their mouths are
doing all they can do to support the fight to empower women.
Like I said there will always be bad men you can not stop this and complaining does nothing.
You can get on with real action that saves women though. It is women helping women to stop being victims.
Still didn't get the modesty thing huh not too surprising maybe.
As I said has nothing to do with outward appearance and everything to do with empowerment
and personal responsibility.
altho i realize that you're once again merely baiting, making false claims and playing up the histronics
i have to say something here; if you truly knew anything about empowering women in order to keep themselves safe (or protect their children) whether the subject is rape or domestic violence, you would know not to blame the victims nor suggest that they should fight back with violence
self denfense lessons can be a good thing but often not applicable, like if the rapist is armed. it's illogical to suggest women carry their own weapon/gun as it's more likely to be taken away and used against her in an attack, than to thwart the attacker. survival is most important and as awful as it is that most often means not physically fighting back.
your so called 'fight-back empowerment approach' will create more victims. they shouldn't be faced with judgement and shame as in your approach. that would only serve detract from what little empowerment they do have to report to law enforcement and seek justice through the courts
also your quip about 'choosing not to get involved with violent men' is offensive to DV surviors....do you really think women are that foolish? as if all men that do become violent start out relationships with behavior that is abusive or violent? on the contrary they draw women in at the beginning with charm
that boys will be boys therefore many just can' t help being rapist or violent is bullshit....there is no excuse. not only is it victim blaming, it's encourages and instills fear in women
there's is no excuse for the guy in the OP. No one ever deserves to be raped. i totally agree with those that say parents need to make sure they teach this to their boys.... going by recent news it certainly seems like this lesson has been lost
Wow your post so negative and filled with defeatism Why?
yes ... lets do nothing as women :fp: instilling fear with defeatism. ... great just what we need.
By knowing women can take control of their lives and fate is the opposite of blame
but that's what some do... all they can do is play a blame game. Getting old. Fight for the lives we want!
Don't blame the assholes they are here to stay. If some women haven't learned that yet
they never will. But some are and taking personal responsibility for their lives and that of their children
I am working now to help victims in more ways than one. We can bring change long time due
and not by waiting around for men to get a clue. I guess that is some people's plan though
how proactive of them
Still didn't get the modesty thing huh not too surprising maybe.
As I said has nothing to do with outward appearance and everything to do with empowerment
and personal responsibility.
do you even know what modesty means? it has nothing to do with empowerment and personal responsibility. empowerment in this context is actually the direct OPPOSITE of modesty. :fp:
It has everything to do with personal responsibility and empowerment. It has nothing to do
with how a women appears to the world. But some are one dimensional and will see things
the way they see things missing so very much. I see a theme here
altho i realize that you're once again merely baiting, making false claims and playing up the histronics
i have to say something here; if you truly knew anything about empowering women in order to keep themselves safe (or protect their children) whether the subject is rape or domestic violence, you would know not to blame the victims nor suggest that they should fight back with violence
self denfense lessons can be a good thing but often not applicable, like if the rapist is armed. it's illogical to suggest women carry their own weapon/gun as it's more likely to be taken away and used against her in an attack, than to thwart the attacker. survival is most important and as awful as it is that most often means not physically fighting back.
your so called 'fight-back empowerment approach' will create more victims. they shouldn't be faced with judgement and shame as in your approach. that would only serve detract from what little empowerment they do have to report to law enforcement and seek justice through the courts
also your quip about 'choosing not to get involved with violent men' is offensive to DV surviors....do you really think women are that foolish? as if all men that do become violent start out relationships with behavior that is abusive or violent? on the contrary they draw women in at the beginning with charm
that boys will be boys therefore many just can' t help being rapist or violent is bullshit....there is no excuse. not only is it victim blaming, it's encourages and instills fear in women
there's is no excuse for the guy in the OP. No one ever deserves to be raped. i totally agree with those that say parents need to make sure they teach this to their boys.... going by recent news it certainly seems like this lesson has been lost
Still didn't get the modesty thing huh not too surprising maybe.
As I said has nothing to do with outward appearance and everything to do with empowerment
and personal responsibility.
do you even know what modesty means? it has nothing to do with empowerment and personal responsibility. empowerment in this context is actually the direct OPPOSITE of modesty. :fp:
It has everything to do with personal responsibility and empowerment. It has nothing to do
with how a women appears to the world. But some are one dimensional and will see things
the way they see things missing so very much. I see a theme here
look up the definition of modesty, and tell me how, specifically, without your little digs and quips, how it relates to empowerment and personal responsibility.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
altho i realize that you're once again merely baiting, making false claims and playing up the histronics
i have to say something here; if you truly knew anything about empowering women in order to keep themselves safe (or protect their children) whether the subject is rape or domestic violence, you would know not to blame the victims nor suggest that they should fight back with violence
self denfense lessons can be a good thing but often not applicable, like if the rapist is armed. it's illogical to suggest women carry their own weapon/gun as it's more likely to be taken away and used against her in an attack, than to thwart the attacker. survival is most important and as awful as it is that most often means not physically fighting back.
your so called 'fight-back empowerment approach' will create more victims. they shouldn't be faced with judgement and shame as in your approach. that would only serve detract from what little empowerment they do have to report to law enforcement and seek justice through the courts
also your quip about 'choosing not to get involved with violent men' is offensive to DV surviors....do you really think women are that foolish? as if all men that do become violent start out relationships with behavior that is abusive or violent? on the contrary they draw women in at the beginning with charm
that boys will be boys therefore many just can' t help being rapist or violent is bullshit....there is no excuse. not only is it victim blaming, it's encourages and instills fear in women
there's is no excuse for the guy in the OP. No one ever deserves to be raped. i totally agree with those that say parents need to make sure they teach this to their boys.... going by recent news it certainly seems like this lesson has been lost
Wow your post so negative and filled with defeatism Why?
yes ... lets do nothing as women :fp: instilling fear with defeatism. ... great just what we need.
By knowing women can take control of their lives and fate is the opposite of blame
but that's what some do... all they can do is play a blame game. Getting old. Fight for the lives we want!
Don't blame the assholes they are here to stay. If some women haven't learned that yet
they never will. But some are and taking personal responsibility for their lives and that of their children
I am working now to help victims in more ways than one. We can bring change long time due
and not by waiting around for men to get a clue. I guess that is some people's plan though
how proactive of them
how is prism's post NEGATIVE? defeatism? good god, get a fucking clue. it's about prevention AND control, not just control. you blather on about people playing the blame game and then in the same paragraph you talk about "men getting a clue" and "being assholes".
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
mod·est
[mod-ist]
adjective
1. having or showing a moderate or humble estimate of one's merits, importance, etc.; free from vanity, egotism, boastfulness, or great pretensions.
2. free from ostentation or showy extravagance: a modest house.
3. having or showing regard for the decencies of behavior, speech, dress, etc.; decent: a modest neckline on a dress.
4. limited or moderate in amount, extent, etc.: a modest increase in salary.
em·pow·er
[em-pou-er] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1. to give power or authority to; authorize, especially by legal or official means: I empowered my agent to make the deal for me. The local ordinance empowers the board of health to close unsanitary restaurants.
2. to enable or permit: Wealth empowered him to live a comfortable life.
personal responsibility
Personal Responsibility is taking responsibility for your actions, accepting the consequences that come from those actions and understanding that what you do impacts those around you. (http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in ... t-problems)
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
altho i realize that you're once again merely baiting, making false claims and playing up the histronics
i have to say something here; if you truly knew anything about empowering women in order to keep themselves safe (or protect their children) whether the subject is rape or domestic violence, you would know not to blame the victims nor suggest that they should fight back with violence
self denfense lessons can be a good thing but often not applicable, like if the rapist is armed. it's illogical to suggest women carry their own weapon/gun as it's more likely to be taken away and used against her in an attack, than to thwart the attacker. survival is most important and as awful as it is that most often means not physically fighting back.
your so called 'fight-back empowerment approach' will create more victims. they shouldn't be faced with judgement and shame as in your approach. that would only serve detract from what little empowerment they do have to report to law enforcement and seek justice through the courts
also your quip about 'choosing not to get involved with violent men' is offensive to DV surviors....do you really think women are that foolish? as if all men that do become violent start out relationships with behavior that is abusive or violent? on the contrary they draw women in at the beginning with charm
that boys will be boys therefore many just can' t help being rapist or violent is bullshit....there is no excuse. not only is it victim blaming, it's encourages and instills fear in women
there's is no excuse for the guy in the OP. No one ever deserves to be raped. i totally agree with those that say parents need to make sure they teach this to their boys.... going by recent news it certainly seems like this lesson has been lost
Wow your post so negative and filled with defeatism Why?
yes ... lets do nothing as women :fp: instilling fear with defeatism. ... great just what we need.
By knowing women can take control of their lives and fate is the opposite of blame
but that's what some do... all they can do is play a blame game. Getting old. Fight for the lives we want!
Don't blame the assholes they are here to stay. If some women haven't learned that yet
they never will. But some are and taking personal responsibility for their lives and that of their children
I am working now to help victims in more ways than one. We can bring change long time due
and not by waiting around for men to get a clue. I guess that is some people's plan though
how proactive of them
how is prism's post NEGATIVE? defeatism? good god, get a fucking clue. it's about prevention AND control, not just control. you blather on about people playing the blame game and then in the same paragraph you talk about "men getting a clue" and "being assholes".
maybe its negative or some form of defeatism due to it doesn't follow Pandoras guidelines. Great post Prism, spot on again as you were in that long ago DV thread.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Wearing the hijab or dressing modestly (no low necklines and leaving miniskirts to models) can, for some women, act as a way of empowering them, and I’ve seen its benefits first hand. When I wear a top that goes up to my neckline, as I do when I’m around Usama’s family (or to be honest most of the time – I wear hoodies a lot!), I feel like I’m actually being listened to and enjoy engaging in debates about religion and feminism with his family, without the feeling that someone is staring at my tits – which was the case in a lot of other situations. It reminded me of Simone de Beauvoir’s concept of female freedom lying in a woman’s ability to be removed from her physical attributes. Maybe there is something in it, after all. From guest post “Islam and me” on The F Word (UK).
I’m sure most of my readers are familiar with the concept of manufactured need. Usually it appears in anti-consumerist arguments about the psychology of advertising, and how marketers first have to make people feel inadequate to sell them products that alleviate the feeling of inadequacy. Today, I’m going to apply it to the modesty doctrine.
The guest blogger above doesn’t seem to realize that she’s being sold a line about empowerment that’s not empowerment at all. Patriarchal religion (in this case, a particular version of Islam) tells her that modest dress empowers her by preventing people from staring at her breasts. She feels more comfortable covered up around her fiance’s family. She talks about the relief of being “removed from her physical attributes.” What she doesn’t seem to notice is that other people’s behavior is what was making her uncomfortable in the first place. The beliefs of her family-to-be (that modest dress is a prerequisite for respect) cause them to stare at her breasts and make her uncomfortable in that subtle, infuriating way that Christian fundamentalists patronizingly smile and conspicuously try not to look at the legs of a newcomer in a short skirt. Her family-to-be’s body language is sending her subtle social signals that she is not okay. Because she is internalizing their ideas and bad behavior, she feels like she is “empowered” when she does what they want and covers up.
how is prism's post NEGATIVE? defeatism? good god, get a fucking clue. it's about prevention AND control, not just control. you blather on about people playing the blame game and then in the same paragraph you talk about "men getting a clue" and "being assholes".
you're so full of shit your ears are full of flies.
I think that comment is against posting rules ...
prism wote... self denfense lessons can be a good thing but often not applicable, like if the rapist is armed. it's illogical to suggest women carry their own weapon/gun as it's more likely to be taken away and used against her in an attack, than to thwart the attacker. survival is most important and as awful as it is that most often means not physically fighting back. your so called 'fight-back empowerment approach' will create more victims
If that is not already defeated without even trying I don't know what is. It is fear, pure and simple.
People agreeing with this do not require a lot of personal responsibility.
Some would have women doing nothing to save themselves being raped,
but to focus on the rapist. :crazy: Hows that working for us at a rape happening every few minutes in the US?
The only way to apply prevention that brings results is to be proactive
and stop victims being victims... it goes without saying a rapist is to blame but that changes nothing.
It also goes without saying that posting an article of an event where a stupid person
is exercising their freedom of speech fulfills nothing but the need to bitch for some.
How is that changing anything? It's pointing out the obvious.
I wonder how many work to change? I am hoping many are being proactive in their communities.
What is changing is the advice to not fight, to lay down and take it, to prepare,
to not be vulnerable. This the advice that will bring change and the all important mindset
of taking one's own fate into their own hands. Or we can always bitch...
some in life excel at just that but that doesn't bring results :fp:
People agreeing with this do not require a lot of personal responsibility.
Some would have women doing nothing to save themselves being raped,
but to focus on the rapist. :crazy: Hows that working for us at a rape happening every few minutes in the US?
The only way to apply prevention that brings results is to be proactive
and stop victims being victims... it goes without saying a rapist is to blame but that changes nothing.
It also goes without saying that posting an article of an event where a stupid person
is exercising their freedom of speech fulfills nothing but the need to bitch for some.
How is that changing anything? It's pointing out the obvious.
I wonder how many work to change? I am hoping many are being proactive in their communities.
What is changing is the advice to not fight, to lay down and take it, to prepare,
to not be vulnerable. This the advice that will bring change and the all important mindset
of taking one's own fate into their own hands. Or we can always bitch...
some in life excel at just that but that doesn't bring results :fp:
you keep speaking about all the change you are affecting in your community. why don't you tell us all the change you are bringing about?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
What is changing is the advice to not fight, to lay down and take it, to prepare,
to not be vulnerable. This the advice that will bring change and the all important mindset
of taking one's own fate into their own hands. Or we can always bitch...
some in life excel at just that but that doesn't bring results :fp:
no one has ever said to not fight, to lay down and take it. that's absurd.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
maybe its negative or some form of defeatism due to it doesn't follow Pandoras guidelines. Great post Prism, spot on again as you were in that long ago DV thread.
Peace
The old fashioned viewpoint...
weaker sex, don't fight back, can't leave an abuser... I'm a victim...
there is a much different trend taking place. I will be glad when all women begin to understand
who we can be and fight to bring positive change. The negativity of those thoughts from
generations ago are limiting and ridiculous and as we see doing nothing to stop victimization.
Unfortunately some men do not want to empower their own women, obviously.
They speak of personal and private issues as though their partners were children not equals.
Not even comprehending the embarrassment they would feel. The sad part is they
can not even see it.
"Pandora's guidelines " wow that speaks volumes on being up on things... :fp:
I'm on board with the empowerment of women, and taking personal
responsibility for one's own life and their children's lives, teaching the next generation by example.
I have learned much helping lately in my community to do just that.
Unfortunately, Prism is right. Self defense classes, whilst boosting confidence, are, in most cases not effective in 'suprise close encounters'. It has been proven time and time over again. It would seem, more often than not, the woman is approached from behind and that is one of the worse situations to be in. Also, it has been shown time and time over again that a majority of people 'freeze' under the unexpected. Most will not remember their 'moves', etc. Most will not be able to reach for their mace, even the gun they have stashed in their pretty little handbag (or, in my case, the big huge bottomless pit of one!). Thinking one can deal effectively with such attacks with a few self defense classes under their belt are a danger to themselves (over confidence, etc.). Naturally, those teaching these classes will say otherwise. Apparently, best bet in rape is throwing up, urinating and defecating....
Note - I said most, more often than not, majority - so please don't come back with a link to an article saying this brave girl fought her rapist and shot him and therefore was not a victim.
But this thread is not about how a woman (or man) can defend her/himself from a rapist. It's about a growing trend of thought that somehow women are 'fair play' and 'asking for it'. This both from men and women.
1. Don’t put drugs in people’s drinks in order to control their behavior.
2. When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone!
3. If you pull over to help someone with car problems, remember not to assault them!
4. NEVER open an unlocked door or window uninvited.
5. If you are in an elevator and someone else gets in, DON’T ASSAULT THEM!
6. Remember, people go to laundry to do their laundry, do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.
7. USE THE BUDDY SYSTEM! If you are not able to stop yourself from assaulting people, ask a friend to stay with you while you are in public.
8. Always be honest with people! Don’t pretend to be a caring friend in order to gain the trust of someone you want to assault. Consider telling them you plan to assault them. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the other person may take that as a sign that you do not plan to rape them.
9. Don’t forget: you can’t have sex with someone unless they are awake!
10. Carry a whistle! If you are worried you might assault someone “on accident” you can hand it to the person you are with, so they can blow it if you do.
11. And, ALWAYS REMEMBER: if you didn’t ask permission and then respect the answer the first time, you are committing a crime- no matter how “into it” others appear to be.
They speak of personal and private issues as though their partners were children not equals.
Not even comprehending the embarrassment they would feel. The sad part is they
can not even see it.
kinda like when you spoke about your husband's private parts?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Unfortunately, Prism is right. Self defense classes, whilst boosting confidence, are, in most cases not effective in 'suprise close encounters'. It has been proven time and time over again. It would seem, more often than not, the woman is approached from behind and that is one of the worse situations to be in. Also, it has been shown time and time over again that a majority of people 'freeze' under the unexpected. Most will not remember their 'moves', etc. Most will not be able to reach for their mace, even the gun they have stashed in their pretty little handbag (or, in my case, the big huge bottomless pit of one!). Thinking one can deal effectively with such attacks with a few self defense classes under their belt are a danger to themselves (over confidence, etc.). Naturally, those teaching these classes will say otherwise. Apparently, best bet in rape is throwing up, urinating and defecating....
Note - I said most, more often than not, majority - so please don't come back with a link to an article saying this brave girl fought her rapist and shot him and therefore was not a victim.
But this thread is not about how a woman (or man) can defend her/himself from a rapist. It's about a growing trend of thought that somehow women are 'fair play' and 'asking for it'. This both from men and women.
Although, I'm not sure this is a growing, or new, trend but one that has been around for a very long time. Men and, surprisingly, women are now feeling free to be more vocal in their condemnation of women who are raped because they 'ask' for it. Maybe another direction for our conversation is to discuss WHY people are (if they are, in fact) feeling freer to condemn women. Wasn't there another thread that discussed the republican war on women? Maybe that 'war', although I know some here think that it was overblown, is giving some in the general public license to wage another war on women.
Post edited by riotgrl on
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Although, I'm not sure this is a growing, or new, trend but one that has been around for a very long time..
It's nothing new riotgrl - been around from the dawn of times! But... there was a feeling that, not all too long ago, 'equality' was much more on the menu with all that entails. It seems we are going backwards again....
Although, I'm not sure this is a growing, or new, trend but one that has been around for a very long time. Men and, surprisingly, women are now feeling free to be more vocal in their condemnation of women who are raped because they 'ask' for it. Maybe another direction for our conversation is to discuss WHY people are (if they are, in fact) feeling freer to condemn women. Wasn't there another thread that discussed the republican war on women? Maybe that 'war', although I know some here think that it was overblown, is giving some in the general public license to wage another war on women.
Yeah, I noticed that connection as well, not with the thread, but the fact that republicans do have a war against women. And that war certainly will not teach men to respect the opposite sex. It's like we're retreating to the Dark Ages, when we were advancing just a short time ago.
I guess I'll have to quote that one at the next gathering...
unbelievable. Glad I am working with women who are ready to bring change,
otherwise it would be hard to have any hope at all....
cause we see how the old attitudes have helped so much. :fp:
1. Don’t put drugs in people’s drinks in order to control their behavior.
2. When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone!
3. If you pull over to help someone with car problems, remember not to assault them!
4. NEVER open an unlocked door or window uninvited.
5. If you are in an elevator and someone else gets in, DON’T ASSAULT THEM!
6. Remember, people go to laundry to do their laundry, do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.
7. USE THE BUDDY SYSTEM! If you are not able to stop yourself from assaulting people, ask a friend to stay with you while you are in public.
8. Always be honest with people! Don’t pretend to be a caring friend in order to gain the trust of someone you want to assault. Consider telling them you plan to assault them. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the other person may take that as a sign that you do not plan to rape them.
9. Don’t forget: you can’t have sex with someone unless they are awake!
10. Carry a whistle! If you are worried you might assault someone “on accident” you can hand it to the person you are with, so they can blow it if you do.
11. And, ALWAYS REMEMBER: if you didn’t ask permission and then respect the answer the first time, you are committing a crime- no matter how “into it” others appear to be.
So Pandora... whilst we understand you have a different notion of 'modesty' to the more 'conventional' thought, what do you understand as 'empowerment' (which is a fantastic, current buzzword...)
They speak of personal and private issues as though their partners were children not equals.
Not even comprehending the embarrassment they would feel. The sad part is they
can not even see it.
kinda like when you spoke about your husband's private parts?
pardon me? I don't remember this but...
did I brag again I always have permission to brag in fact the more braggin the better
let's quote and send it to JB it will make his day for sure...
I bet I'll get lucky too oh TMI
but no nothing like that ... that would be derogatory negative statements that I speak of.
1. Don’t put drugs in people’s drinks in order to control their behavior.
2. When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone!
3. If you pull over to help someone with car problems, remember not to assault them!
4. NEVER open an unlocked door or window uninvited.
5. If you are in an elevator and someone else gets in, DON’T ASSAULT THEM!
6. Remember, people go to laundry to do their laundry, do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.
7. USE THE BUDDY SYSTEM! If you are not able to stop yourself from assaulting people, ask a friend to stay with you while you are in public.
8. Always be honest with people! Don’t pretend to be a caring friend in order to gain the trust of someone you want to assault. Consider telling them you plan to assault them. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the other person may take that as a sign that you do not plan to rape them.
9. Don’t forget: you can’t have sex with someone unless they are awake!
10. Carry a whistle! If you are worried you might assault someone “on accident” you can hand it to the person you are with, so they can blow it if you do.
11. And, ALWAYS REMEMBER: if you didn’t ask permission and then respect the answer the first time, you are committing a crime- no matter how “into it” others appear to be.
Comments
freedom of speech is awesome! layers and layers, action reaction, thought and opinion provoking...
yes ... lets do nothing as women :fp: instilling fear with defeatism. ... great just what we need.
By knowing women can take control of their lives and fate is the opposite of blame
but that's what some do...
all they can do is play a blame game. Getting old. Fight for the lives we want!
Don't blame the assholes they are here to stay. If some women haven't learned that yet
they never will. But some are and taking personal responsibility for their lives and that of their children
I am working now to help victims in more ways than one. We can bring change long time due
and not by waiting around for men to get a clue. I guess that is some people's plan though
how proactive of them
with how a women appears to the world. But some are one dimensional and will see things
the way they see things missing so very much. I see a theme here
Completely agree, and well said.
look up the definition of modesty, and tell me how, specifically, without your little digs and quips, how it relates to empowerment and personal responsibility.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
how is prism's post NEGATIVE? defeatism? good god, get a fucking clue. it's about prevention AND control, not just control. you blather on about people playing the blame game and then in the same paragraph you talk about "men getting a clue" and "being assholes".
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
[mod-ist]
adjective
1. having or showing a moderate or humble estimate of one's merits, importance, etc.; free from vanity, egotism, boastfulness, or great pretensions.
2. free from ostentation or showy extravagance: a modest house.
3. having or showing regard for the decencies of behavior, speech, dress, etc.; decent: a modest neckline on a dress.
4. limited or moderate in amount, extent, etc.: a modest increase in salary.
em·pow·er
[em-pou-er] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1. to give power or authority to; authorize, especially by legal or official means: I empowered my agent to make the deal for me. The local ordinance empowers the board of health to close unsanitary restaurants.
2. to enable or permit: Wealth empowered him to live a comfortable life.
personal responsibility
Personal Responsibility is taking responsibility for your actions, accepting the consequences that come from those actions and understanding that what you do impacts those around you. (http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in ... t-problems)
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/phoenixand ... powerment/
I’m sure most of my readers are familiar with the concept of manufactured need. Usually it appears in anti-consumerist arguments about the psychology of advertising, and how marketers first have to make people feel inadequate to sell them products that alleviate the feeling of inadequacy. Today, I’m going to apply it to the modesty doctrine.
The guest blogger above doesn’t seem to realize that she’s being sold a line about empowerment that’s not empowerment at all. Patriarchal religion (in this case, a particular version of Islam) tells her that modest dress empowers her by preventing people from staring at her breasts. She feels more comfortable covered up around her fiance’s family. She talks about the relief of being “removed from her physical attributes.” What she doesn’t seem to notice is that other people’s behavior is what was making her uncomfortable in the first place. The beliefs of her family-to-be (that modest dress is a prerequisite for respect) cause them to stare at her breasts and make her uncomfortable in that subtle, infuriating way that Christian fundamentalists patronizingly smile and conspicuously try not to look at the legs of a newcomer in a short skirt. Her family-to-be’s body language is sending her subtle social signals that she is not okay. Because she is internalizing their ideas and bad behavior, she feels like she is “empowered” when she does what they want and covers up.
If that is not already defeated without even trying I don't know what is.
It is fear, pure and simple.
People agreeing with this do not require a lot of personal responsibility.
Some would have women doing nothing to save themselves being raped,
but to focus on the rapist. :crazy:
Hows that working for us at a rape happening every few minutes in the US?
The only way to apply prevention that brings results is to be proactive
and stop victims being victims...
it goes without saying a rapist is to blame but that changes nothing.
It also goes without saying that posting an article of an event where a stupid person
is exercising their freedom of speech fulfills nothing but the need to bitch for some.
How is that changing anything? It's pointing out the obvious.
I wonder how many work to change? I am hoping many are being proactive in their communities.
What is changing is the advice to not fight, to lay down and take it, to prepare,
to not be vulnerable. This the advice that will bring change and the all important mindset
of taking one's own fate into their own hands. Or we can always bitch...
some in life excel at just that but that doesn't bring results :fp:
yes, it is, which is why I went back and edited it out. you just tend to inspire me to say such things sometimes.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
you keep speaking about all the change you are affecting in your community. why don't you tell us all the change you are bringing about?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
no one has ever said to not fight, to lay down and take it. that's absurd.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
weaker sex, don't fight back, can't leave an abuser... I'm a victim...
there is a much different trend taking place. I will be glad when all women begin to understand
who we can be and fight to bring positive change. The negativity of those thoughts from
generations ago are limiting and ridiculous and as we see doing nothing to stop victimization.
Unfortunately some men do not want to empower their own women, obviously.
They speak of personal and private issues as though their partners were children not equals.
Not even comprehending the embarrassment they would feel. The sad part is they
can not even see it.
"Pandora's guidelines "
I'm on board with the empowerment of women, and taking personal
responsibility for one's own life and their children's lives, teaching the next generation by example.
I have learned much helping lately in my community to do just that.
Plus an lol!
Sweet icing on the cake.
Note - I said most, more often than not, majority - so please don't come back with a link to an article saying this brave girl fought her rapist and shot him and therefore was not a victim.
But this thread is not about how a woman (or man) can defend her/himself from a rapist. It's about a growing trend of thought that somehow women are 'fair play' and 'asking for it'. This both from men and women.
1. Don’t put drugs in people’s drinks in order to control their behavior.
2. When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone!
3. If you pull over to help someone with car problems, remember not to assault them!
4. NEVER open an unlocked door or window uninvited.
5. If you are in an elevator and someone else gets in, DON’T ASSAULT THEM!
6. Remember, people go to laundry to do their laundry, do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.
7. USE THE BUDDY SYSTEM! If you are not able to stop yourself from assaulting people, ask a friend to stay with you while you are in public.
8. Always be honest with people! Don’t pretend to be a caring friend in order to gain the trust of someone you want to assault. Consider telling them you plan to assault them. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the other person may take that as a sign that you do not plan to rape them.
9. Don’t forget: you can’t have sex with someone unless they are awake!
10. Carry a whistle! If you are worried you might assault someone “on accident” you can hand it to the person you are with, so they can blow it if you do.
11. And, ALWAYS REMEMBER: if you didn’t ask permission and then respect the answer the first time, you are committing a crime- no matter how “into it” others appear to be.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dq6j2XC47O4/T ... 9403_o.jpg
kinda like when you spoke about your husband's private parts?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Although, I'm not sure this is a growing, or new, trend but one that has been around for a very long time. Men and, surprisingly, women are now feeling free to be more vocal in their condemnation of women who are raped because they 'ask' for it. Maybe another direction for our conversation is to discuss WHY people are (if they are, in fact) feeling freer to condemn women. Wasn't there another thread that discussed the republican war on women? Maybe that 'war', although I know some here think that it was overblown, is giving some in the general public license to wage another war on women.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
It's nothing new riotgrl - been around from the dawn of times! But... there was a feeling that, not all too long ago, 'equality' was much more on the menu with all that entails. It seems we are going backwards again....
Yeah, I noticed that connection as well, not with the thread, but the fact that republicans do have a war against women. And that war certainly will not teach men to respect the opposite sex. It's like we're retreating to the Dark Ages, when we were advancing just a short time ago.
I guess I'll have to quote that one at the next gathering...
unbelievable. Glad I am working with women who are ready to bring change,
otherwise it would be hard to have any hope at all....
cause we see how the old attitudes have helped so much. :fp:
did I brag again
let's quote and send it to JB it will make his day for sure...
I bet I'll get lucky too
but no nothing like that ... that would be derogatory negative statements that I speak of.
(and, I've never played the finger to the mouth "who, l'il ol' me?" card)
I need to *poof* it again. Too early (or too late) for this nonsense.
This goes against every porn movie i've ever seen. :crazy:
yes please poof away...
you might actually get wet