It's not about attraction but power and control. - Note: Oops.. quoting went wrong. I said that and you responded to it!
I've been told this my whole life, i disagree it's as black and white as that.
I'm sure there's sexual gratification as well and I'm sure it's not as black and white as that but rape is control. Control over women that maybe the rapist would never be able to 'have', etc. See also how rape is used to subdue in warfare. Power over someone.
i also think there is a certain amount of attraction towards the victim for the rapist though not necessarily the same kind as a non rapist would feel for someone. there has to be something to draw them to their victim... what that is, i do not know.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's not about attraction but power and control. - Note: Oops.. quoting went wrong. I said that and you responded to it!
I've been told this my whole life, i disagree it's as black and white as that.
I'm sure there's sexual gratification as well and I'm sure it's not as black and white as that but rape is control. Control over women that maybe the rapist would never be able to 'have', etc. See also how rape is used to subdue in warfare. Power over someone.
This is excellent, i'm going to show this post to my wife tonight, we've had long heated arguments about this. You make both my point and hers, we'll probably end up in an fight but i cant let her win them all.
Nooooo! I don't want to cause any marital discord!
As to catefrances' post about attraction. What would attract the rapist? A 'type' of woman that the rapist may subconsciously have an issue with (eg one having a a blonde dump him and goes on raping blonds - again the 'power' over them he did not have with the one dumping him)? Opportunity to subdue/overpower a victim? I don't know - not my field of expertise! Still control... Therefore suggesting that it's the woman's fault (or partly) because of how she looks is just plain......... horseshit (as catefrances puts it!).
It's o.k. Red, my wife maintains Rape has nothing to do with Sex. My Argument, then why does it take a sexual act, why aren't rapists instead just beating the crap out of random people they find attractive to prove there dominance, but your post makes a good point in showing that both can be true.
It's o.k. Red, my wife maintains Rape has nothing to do with Sex. My Argument, then why does it take a sexual act, why aren't rapists instead just beating the crap out of random people they find attractive to prove there dominance, but your post makes a good point in showing that both can be true.
penis = knife. its a weapon. im sure you've heard the saying that all lesbians need is a good fuck... or let me at her ill fuck it out of her. that is violence. violence = power.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's o.k. Red, my wife maintains Rape has nothing to do with Sex. My Argument, then why does it take a sexual act, why aren't rapists instead just beating the crap out of random people they find attractive to prove there dominance, but your post makes a good point in showing that both can be true.
penis = knife. its a weapon. im sure you've heard the saying that all lesbians need is a good fuck... or let me at her ill fuck it out of her. that is violence. violence = power.
I've never raped anyone, but i've thought about it in a sexually fantasy way, because i wanted to fuck that person.
I don't remember thinking about having power over the girl or using my dick as a knife, but i do remember thinking, how good would it feel to hold this girl down and fuck her right now. Which i think is totally sexual and maybe only a little violent.
Rape is the ultimate violation Binaural. Beating up someone will not be at the same level of violation and dominance. Look at what are considered sex crimes (murders) where the victim's (male or female) sexual 'bits' (vagina/womb/breasts/penis/anus) are mutilated. It would seem that most of the times this has nothing to do with sexual gratification (ie the person doing it 'having his jollies and ejaculating'). Strange stuff. Maybe some rapists may get some sort of sexual release/gratification but it would maybe not be what 'normal' people would consider Sex (eg a couple having mutually gratifying intercourse). For me, sex ('real' sex) and rape don't go together.
I've never raped anyone, but i've thought about it in a sexually fantasy way, because i wanted to fuck that person.
I don't remember thinking about having power over the girl or using my dick as a knife, but i do remember thinking, how good would it feel to hold this girl down and fuck her right now. Which i think is totally sexual and maybe only a little violent.
A quite common fantasy - a bit of forceful/rough sex (sometimes not only fantasy ). But in this fantasy, is this woman accepting this force? Is she finding pleasure? Usually these fantasies are 'airbrushed' (for lack of better word). Role play...
Real rape is not just 'a bit of rough' or role play. It leaves a very traumatised victim who needs to get herself back together again.
tolerate rape? many men fantasize about rape ... nice huh?
Any self respecting woman would understand the importance of modesty.
Any smart women would understand men.
Any prepared women would not allow victimization and would fight for their life
because the very essence of life is what is taken away when they are raped.
Fuck rapists ... be prepared to die, woman aren't going to stay the weaker sex.
Many women fantasize about rape as well. It's not in my sexual-thought cache but hell knows there are other things I think about that might send others running; however, I have no desire to act on them. I'd give most men that benefit of the doubt.
Anyway...parts of your post make no sense to me - I do respect myself and am typically "modest" (read: introverted). But when I choose not to be? It's not an open invitation.
As to understanding men...I think I do. At least, the decent ones who'd never consider lack of modesty as, again, an open invitation.
tolerate rape? many men fantasize about rape ... nice huh?
Any self respecting woman would understand the importance of modesty.
Any smart women would understand men.
Any prepared women would not allow victimization and would fight for their life
because the very essence of life is what is taken away when they are raped.
Fuck rapists ... be prepared to die, woman aren't going to stay the weaker sex.
Many women fantasize about rape as well. It's not in my sexual-thought cache but hell knows there are other things I think about that might send others running; however, I have no desire to act on them. I'd give most men that benefit of the doubt.
Anyway...parts of your post make no sense to me - I do respect myself and am typically "modest" (read: introverted). But when I choose not to be? It's not an open invitation.
As to understanding men...I think I do. At least, the decent ones who'd never consider lack of modesty as, again, an open invitation.
decent ones don't rape
I know this.
Not to go in circles; my comment was in response to this:
Any self respecting woman would understand the importance of modesty.
Any smart women would understand men.
I've never raped anyone, but i've thought about it in a sexually fantasy way, because i wanted to fuck that person.
I don't remember thinking about having power over the girl or using my dick as a knife, but i do remember thinking, how good would it feel to hold this girl down and fuck her right now. Which i think is totally sexual and maybe only a little violent.
A quite common fantasy - a bit of forceful/rough sex (sometimes not only fantasy ). But in this fantasy, is this woman accepting this force? Is she finding pleasure? Usually these fantasies are 'airbrushed' (for lack of better word). Role play...
Real rape is not just 'a bit of rough' or role play. It leaves a very traumatised victim who needs to get herself back together again.
It's not about HER J/k but i hear what you're saying.
Modesty has nothing to do with what a woman wears...
it is her presence, the way she carry's herself, her most basic motives and intentions.
It is felt immediately in who she is. It has everything to do with smarts and self respect.
From what I've read here I'm not sure women understand men at all. :?
The real meat of my post though is preparedness and no one approached
that ever important topic. Once women are truly tired of being victims
then we can get somewhere.
Modesty has nothing to do with what a woman wears...
it is her presence, the way she carry's herself, her most basic motives and intentions.
It is felt immediately in who she is. It has everything to do with smarts and self respect.
From what I've read here I'm not sure women understand men at all. :?
The real meat of my post though is preparedness and no one approached
that ever important topic. Once women are truly tired of being victims
then we can get somewhere.
Whoa whoa whoa...are you saying that women are NOT sick and tired of rape occurring? Or any of the other violence bestowed upon them? Upon anyone?
All the preparedness in the world doesn't guarantee it doesn't and won't continue to happen.
And how, pray tell, would a child "be prepared"? A 10-year-old was kidnapped from her home here recently. Raped. Dumped in a parking lot.
It's not just "immodest" women who are raped, you know.
Ugh.
*edit - I was pissed off when I started writing this response and *poof* have to let it go. Ain't worth the negative energy.
And how, pray tell, would a child "be prepared"? A 10-year-old was kidnapped from her home here recently. Raped. Dumped in a parking lot.
I think there may have been some hints of 'packing' and reference to some 'other' threads when speaking of being 'prepared'. The above just debunks this....
Modesty has nothing to do with what a woman wears...
it is her presence, the way she carry's herself, her most basic motives and intentions.
It is felt immediately in who she is. It has everything to do with smarts and self respect.
From what I've read here I'm not sure women understand men at all. :?
The real meat of my post though is preparedness and no one approached
that ever important topic. Once women are truly tired of being victims
then we can get somewhere.
Whoa whoa whoa...are you saying that women are NOT sick and tired of rape occurring? Or any of the other violence bestowed upon them? Upon anyone?
All the preparedness in the world doesn't guarantee it doesn't and won't continue to happen.
And how, pray tell, would a child "be prepared"? A 10-year-old was kidnapped from her home here recently. Raped. Dumped in a parking lot.
It's not just "immodest" women who are raped, you know.
Ugh.
*edit - I was pissed off when I started writing this response and *poof* have to let it go. Ain't worth the negative energy.
How could you draw from what I said that only immodest women are raped ... :fp:
please be serious.
It's time women take their own fate into their own hands.
We are discussing women here I thought.
but it's also time to empower children to fight back as well.
Do you want guarantees? Or do you want action?
Me I'm smart enough to know there are no guarantees but fighting the good fight is
what will bring about change. Or we can blame men all the way around.
Ah yes... the men committing the vile crime of rape are not to blame... :roll: The criminal is not responsible for his crime. It's all the fault of the woman who 'didn't fight the good fight'. So I guess the guy (who's free speech is defended, even if what is said is vile), is right then... 'You deserve rape' Jeez....
I think I need hedonist's *poof*
On a side note... my daughter is just getting herself dolled up to go to a party. She looks beautiful but she has one of her numerous 'party dresses' on and quite a bit of make up with red lipstick and she will probably be walking to the station with a spring in her step as she is feeling good about herself. Does that mean for some zealots like the person in the article she looks like a whore and therefore deserves to be raped and attacked on the way to the station or to her friend's house? Would it be her fault? Or the fault of the man who would violate her?
AGAIN... RAPE IS NEVER THE FAULT OF THE VICTIM. SHE/HE IS NEVER TO BLAME. THE RAPIST IS.
Continuing to perpetuate such myth and falsehood as the sign bearing person in the article is plain disgusting. An incitement to violence against women - is this still acceptable under the guise of 'free speech', I ask myself?
of course men who rape are to blame :fp:
but of course it is up to women to stop it but then the women here know this
not sure who they are arguing with
There is no OR which suggests fault of some kind from the victim (that together with some of your other posts). We DO blame the rapist all the way around.
Furthermore, I don't see this thread being about women but being about zealots such as Saxton and the 'larger societal culture that tolerates rape' perpetuating such falsehoods as 'women asking for it' and 'women deserving to be raped' because of who they are. I guess there is the issue of free speech here too. Whether this kind of 'free speech' is acceptable.
There is no OR which suggests fault of some kind from the victim (that together with some of your other posts). We DO blame the rapist all the way around.
Furthermore, I don't see this thread being about women but being about zealots such as Saxton and the 'larger societal culture that tolerates rape' perpetuating such falsehoods as 'women asking for it' and 'women deserving to be raped' because of who they are. I guess there is the issue of free speech here too. Whether this kind of 'free speech' is acceptable.
I meant blaming men who are not helping to stop rape ... the society of male thought...
that is the men all around.
If you want to stop rape stop bitching and do something about it.
A women can be just as smart, strong and empowered as a man we just have to teach them how.
or we can continue to blame men... I'd rather take action as many women are.
Continuing to perpetuate such myth and falsehood as the sign bearing person in the article is plain disgusting. An incitement to violence against women - is this still acceptable under the guise of 'free speech', I ask myself?
So... any thoughts about this? Could this kind of placard with rhetoric that accompanied be construed as incitement to violence against women (in this instance)? Is it acceptable? If it is, would it be acceptable to say (and I know this may be controversial) 'Americans deserve to be bombed'? Or maybe in front of an abortion clinic 'XXXX murdered her child. She deserves to be killed.'
I'm quite sure my younger sister wasnt asking for it as she waited for our mom to get home since she forgot her key that day.
I'm quite sure she didnt think she needed to be "prepared" for the douchebag older brother of the boy she liked taking her into the laundry room of the apt building and raping and beating her.
I'm also quite sure she thought he would be convicted.
Fucking shame then she lost on all counts and decided suicide was a better option. 25 years gone now.
Fuck nut ended up doing 6 months on a plea my father approved to have it finished.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Continuing to perpetuate such myth and falsehood as the sign bearing person in the article is plain disgusting. An incitement to violence against women - is this still acceptable under the guise of 'free speech', I ask myself?
So... any thoughts about this? Could this kind of placard with rhetoric that accompanied be construed as incitement to violence against women (in this instance)? Is it acceptable? If it is, would it be acceptable to say (and I know this may be controversial) 'Americans deserve to be bombed'? Or maybe in front of an abortion clinic 'XXXX murdered her child. She deserves to be killed.'
How far can 'free speech' go?
up to libel, slander and speech that induces panic such as yelling fire in a crowded movie theater.
certainly abhorant speech guy was "preaching" , by the same token someone else could have spoken louder with the correct opposing view.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
i also think there is a certain amount of attraction towards the victim for the rapist though not necessarily the same kind as a non rapist would feel for someone. there has to be something to draw them to their victim... what that is, i do not know.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Nooooo! I don't want to cause any marital discord!
As to catefrances' post about attraction. What would attract the rapist? A 'type' of woman that the rapist may subconsciously have an issue with (eg one having a a blonde dump him and goes on raping blonds - again the 'power' over them he did not have with the one dumping him)? Opportunity to subdue/overpower a victim? I don't know - not my field of expertise! Still control... Therefore suggesting that it's the woman's fault (or partly) because of how she looks is just plain......... horseshit (as catefrances puts it!).
penis = knife. its a weapon. im sure you've heard the saying that all lesbians need is a good fuck... or let me at her ill fuck it out of her. that is violence. violence = power.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I've never raped anyone, but i've thought about it in a sexually fantasy way, because i wanted to fuck that person.
I don't remember thinking about having power over the girl or using my dick as a knife, but i do remember thinking, how good would it feel to hold this girl down and fuck her right now. Which i think is totally sexual and maybe only a little violent.
A quite common fantasy - a bit of forceful/rough sex (sometimes not only fantasy
Real rape is not just 'a bit of rough' or role play. It leaves a very traumatised victim who needs to get herself back together again.
Truly about power. Some sick kind of power, but power nonetheless.
Not to go in circles; my comment was in response to this:
Any self respecting woman would understand the importance of modesty.
Any smart women would understand men.
It's not about HER
ya that's just nasty.
it is her presence, the way she carry's herself, her most basic motives and intentions.
It is felt immediately in who she is. It has everything to do with smarts and self respect.
From what I've read here I'm not sure women understand men at all. :?
The real meat of my post though is preparedness and no one approached
that ever important topic. Once women are truly tired of being victims
then we can get somewhere.
Males who excuse or justify their behaviour by blaming it on the woman - how she dressed, how she walked, how she...whatever - are not 'men'.
Males who feel it is perfectly fine to violate a woman in such a way because of who she is are not 'men'.
Anyone condoning and finding this kind of behaviour/way of thinking acceptable is not a very decent person. A lowlife even.
All the preparedness in the world doesn't guarantee it doesn't and won't continue to happen.
And how, pray tell, would a child "be prepared"? A 10-year-old was kidnapped from her home here recently. Raped. Dumped in a parking lot.
It's not just "immodest" women who are raped, you know.
Ugh.
*edit - I was pissed off when I started writing this response and *poof* have to let it go. Ain't worth the negative energy.
Yes... but are they TRULY tired of this?
I think there may have been some hints of 'packing' and reference to some 'other' threads when speaking of being 'prepared'. The above just debunks this....
You're probably right....
please be serious.
It's time women take their own fate into their own hands.
We are discussing women here I thought.
but it's also time to empower children to fight back as well.
Do you want guarantees? Or do you want action?
Me I'm smart enough to know there are no guarantees but fighting the good fight is
what will bring about change. Or we can blame men all the way around.
Ah yes... the men committing the vile crime of rape are not to blame... :roll: The criminal is not responsible for his crime. It's all the fault of the woman who 'didn't fight the good fight'. So I guess the guy (who's free speech is defended, even if what is said is vile), is right then... 'You deserve rape' Jeez....
I think I need hedonist's *poof*
On a side note... my daughter is just getting herself dolled up to go to a party. She looks beautiful but she has one of her numerous 'party dresses' on and quite a bit of make up with red lipstick and she will probably be walking to the station with a spring in her step as she is feeling good about herself. Does that mean for some zealots like the person in the article she looks like a whore and therefore deserves to be raped and attacked on the way to the station or to her friend's house? Would it be her fault? Or the fault of the man who would violate her?
AGAIN... RAPE IS NEVER THE FAULT OF THE VICTIM. SHE/HE IS NEVER TO BLAME. THE RAPIST IS.
Continuing to perpetuate such myth and falsehood as the sign bearing person in the article is plain disgusting. An incitement to violence against women - is this still acceptable under the guise of 'free speech', I ask myself?
but of course it is up to women to stop it but then the women here know this
not sure who they are arguing with
You can :fp: all you want, you said...
There is no OR which suggests fault of some kind from the victim (that together with some of your other posts). We DO blame the rapist all the way around.
Furthermore, I don't see this thread being about women but being about zealots such as Saxton and the 'larger societal culture that tolerates rape' perpetuating such falsehoods as 'women asking for it' and 'women deserving to be raped' because of who they are. I guess there is the issue of free speech here too. Whether this kind of 'free speech' is acceptable.
that is the men all around.
If you want to stop rape stop bitching and do something about it.
A women can be just as smart, strong and empowered as a man we just have to teach them how.
or we can continue to blame men... I'd rather take action as many women are.
Of course that's what you meant. How silly of me!
Meow!!!!
And you propose???? Obviously besides the self respecting woman being modest and the smart one understanding men so as not to tempt them...
Anyway... the *poof* is probably very necessary here.
So... any thoughts about this? Could this kind of placard with rhetoric that accompanied be construed as incitement to violence against women (in this instance)? Is it acceptable? If it is, would it be acceptable to say (and I know this may be controversial) 'Americans deserve to be bombed'? Or maybe in front of an abortion clinic 'XXXX murdered her child. She deserves to be killed.'
How far can 'free speech' go?
I'm quite sure she didnt think she needed to be "prepared" for the douchebag older brother of the boy she liked taking her into the laundry room of the apt building and raping and beating her.
I'm also quite sure she thought he would be convicted.
Fucking shame then she lost on all counts and decided suicide was a better option. 25 years gone now.
Fuck nut ended up doing 6 months on a plea my father approved to have it finished.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
certainly abhorant speech guy was "preaching" , by the same token someone else could have spoken louder with the correct opposing view.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
just trying to provide an example as an argument against a posters opinion I really should just let be.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14