New Lottery System

MayDay10

no. It would be item-specific.

So instead of refreshing the page with all the ticket options for all the shows.... it would be the specific page the show will be on.... where the buy button would appear.

so say its http://pearljam.com/goods/index.tickets for the ticket page, there would be a sequence and someone would figure out http://pearljam.com/goods/index.tickets/3456 was the particular show.
Of course it could backfire if they are wrong.

it wouldnt be a secret either. People would post that info here.

MayDay10

also..

forgot to add,

if you dont know/nobody knows and once it opens up and you see that extra step and the specific URL, you cut and paste that in each tab so you skip the step from then on.


so youre refreshing all the tickets.

Then you eventually see your show and you click on it. But get frozen out. You see that specific URL, and you use that one from now on...

rearviewross

MayDay10 wrote:

also..

forgot to add,

if you dont know/nobody knows and once it opens up and you see that extra step and the specific URL, you cut and paste that in each tab so you skip the step from then on.


so youre refreshing all the tickets.

Then you eventually see your show and you click on it. But get frozen out. You see that specific URL, and you use that one from now on...

Got it. Thanks.

Paul Andrews

rearviewross wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

There is a chrome plugin I use if I'm waiting for a site to refresh - Auto Refresh Plus.

Well, there you have it. Problem I see with this is when does it stop? What if you get through and it continues to refresh?

You stop auto refresh when it hits the page you want. I've never used it for tickets - although I used it to keep an eye on a poster sale, it is just something I use as part of my work when building websites and keeping an eye on things and only set it at long refresh intervals.

But as this is just the consumer level system, I imagine plenty would use purpose build systems with a similar core to hit ticket windows. There is a tool for everything to take the human component out - or minimize it - if you know that and where to look.

Paul Andrews

october22 wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

One way is by using multiple browsers and multiple platforms - pc, tablet, phone, thus increasing the number of connections and chances you have. You could also run a bot or even a quick auto refresh plugin so you don't even have to hit f5. You could use a server based solution to take your web browser out of the loop entirely.

Really? Run a bot? A server based solution...?

I highly doubt even 1% of Ten Club fans a) even know what you're talking about and b) were doing any of that shit. And even if they were, they were worse than cheaters, they were idiots because it wasn't even necessary.

That is an extremely generic description that reads like you were just throwing things out to see what sticks. I'm asking for the method that some people on here claim they have been told first hand yet never used because of their superior moral compass.

Also, citing "multiple browsers" as an example of cheating is ridiculous and goes further to prove the entire theory is a red herring.

I wasn't making a moral stand on the ethics of these techniques. I'm not buying into the whole cheating v non cheating or 'gaining advantage 'thing. I don't see them as 'cheating', it is just knowing how to maximise your connections to the store.

I was just articulating some of the things you could to to give yourself an advantage when trying to ensure you get a connection to the store or sales, not just 10c sales. And yes, I'd be surprised if even 1% even know what a bot is let alone how to set it up or use it or how to set up server level scripts, again, just speaking in generalities.

However, If I and a heap of other people are using similar techniques from hitting F5 over and over up, we're all placing many times the load on the server as we should be using one browser (what many probably consider "non-cheating"), we are making it harder for other people by being a big part of why the site bogs down and crashes under the load. If in some dream world everyone just logged in once, did not hit refresh and was patient, the site would probably cope, but that's not going to happen any time soon.



To me cheating would be server level things and bots, which is why we have recapthca and other verification tools.

october22

Paul Andrews wrote:

october22 wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

One way is by using multiple browsers and multiple platforms - pc, tablet, phone, thus increasing the number of connections and chances you have. You could also run a bot or even a quick auto refresh plugin so you don't even have to hit f5. You could use a server based solution to take your web browser out of the loop entirely.

Really? Run a bot? A server based solution...?

I highly doubt even 1% of Ten Club fans a) even know what you're talking about and b) were doing any of that shit. And even if they were, they were worse than cheaters, they were idiots because it wasn't even necessary.

That is an extremely generic description that reads like you were just throwing things out to see what sticks. I'm asking for the method that some people on here claim they have been told first hand yet never used because of their superior moral compass.

Also, citing "multiple browsers" as an example of cheating is ridiculous and goes further to prove the entire theory is a red herring.

I wasn't making a moral stand on the ethics of these techniques. I'm not buying into the whole cheating v non cheating or 'gaining advantage 'thing. I don't see them as 'cheating', it is just knowing how to maximise your connections to the store.

I was just articulating some of the things you could to to give yourself an advantage when trying to ensure you get a connection to the store or sales, not just 10c sales. And yes, I'd be surprised if even 1% even know what a bot is let alone how to set it up or use it or how to set up server level scripts, again, just speaking in generalities.

However, If I and a heap of other people are using similar techniques from hitting F5 over and over up, we're all placing many times the load on the server as we should be using one browser (what many probably consider "non-cheating"), we are making it harder for other people by being a big part of why the site bogs down and crashes under the load. If in some dream world everyone just logged in once, did not hit refresh and was patient, the site would probably cope, but that's not going to happen any time soon.



To me cheating would be server level things and bots, which is why we have recapthca and other verification tools.

Ok, cool. I agree with all that. Didn't mean to come down too hard on what you originally wrote by the way.

rearviewross

Paul Andrews wrote:

However, If I and a heap of other people are using similar techniques from hitting F5 over and over up, we're all placing many times the load on the server as we should be using one browser (what many probably consider "non-cheating"), we are making it harder for other people by being a big part of why the site bogs down and crashes under the load. If in some dream world everyone just logged in once, did not hit refresh and was patient, the site would probably cope, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

Exactly what I meant by saying it is essentially a DD0s attack. Same thing hackers do to take down sites.

Paul Andrews

rearviewross wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

However, If I and a heap of other people are using similar techniques from hitting F5 over and over up, we're all placing many times the load on the server as we should be using one browser (what many probably consider "non-cheating"), we are making it harder for other people by being a big part of why the site bogs down and crashes under the load. If in some dream world everyone just logged in once, did not hit refresh and was patient, the site would probably cope, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

Exactly what I meant by saying it is essentially a DD0s attack. Same thing hackers do to take down sites.

Yes, I've said this a number of times - I sometimes have to deal with them against sites I host. Club members are their own worst enemy when it comes to this. Unknowingly 'sabotaging' their own ticket sales.

Paul Andrews

october22 wrote:

Ok, cool. I agree with all that. Didn't mean to come down too hard on what you originally wrote by the way.

All good mate, we all speak with passion, doesn't imply a personal attack - I didn't take it this way and my original post did appear to call these things 'cheating' which was not my intent.

PJStatTracker

I'm a fan of the lottery, as I've discussed in other threads. There were definitely back doors with the old system, and the playing field needed to be leveled. I wouldn't go as far as to call it "cheating", but I certainly wouldn't call it "fair". I'm sure there were several, but the one I was told of worked like this:

Every product in the old cart system had a unique product id and a separate "hidden id" associated with it.

The product id was on the page, but you had to view the page source to see the hidden id. It was in a line of code that looked like this, where xxxx was the number:

<input type="hidden" name="unitId" value="xxxx"/>

Now, every buy button was just an image with a add-to-cart link associated with it. That link was in the form, where xxxx was the product's hidden id (NOT the product id):

https://secure.pearljam.com/store/buy.s ... nitId=xxxx

So all people had to do was grab the hidden id once they saw the buy button the first time, make a quick bookmark in the toolbar using the above link, and then click it until the tickets were added to the cart.

This meant that people using this method were not refreshing anything - no F5 ever, no browser maximization. Guaranteed results.

They just were constantly clicking a BUY button of their own creation. No race to refresh, then click BUY, then pray. If a show was "temporarily out of stock" people doing this were guaranteed to get the first tickets put back into the system. Not at all fair, obviously.

Thankfully, they have changed their cart system, and closed the back doors. And the lottery closes them for good. I promise you scalpers are in the club, and are WAY more likely to know about and employ these methods than your average fan.

PJStatTracker

I would also offer a counter-argument to the claim that because it's easy more people will enter and therefore everyone's odds are worse. While this is absolutely true for a 1 or 2 show sale like London/Chicago, I think this won't be a real issue with a more extended tour, assuming they all go on "sale" at once.

For one, you have to pony up in advance for every show you enter, so are more people than usual really going to enter for like 10 shows when they have to put a $1600 hold on their cards/bank accounts in order to do so? I don't see it happening.

It also seems pretty clear that you only have a realistic shot at getting your 1st choice. So on a show-by-show basis you are essentially only competing against the people who have also listed that show as their 1st choice.

In the old system, sale times were staggered and people would hop around and everyone would be in the scrum for every show. I actually think come tour time your odds will improve for your 1st choice, because people will really have to think and hedge their bets. Your odds will be terrible for 2nd choice, and I would say no shot for 3rd choice and below.

The con of this is that obviously you will only get lucky for one or two shows max per tour. I think the days of getting 10c tickets to every show are gone.

a potential benefit is that your seats should improve, because the super hard core old fans won't be able to score their 10c tix to every show.

All conjecture of course, but I don't really think the new system hurts your odds in a multi-show lottery. I think it helps you get the ONE show you really want...

rearviewross

PJStatTracker wrote:

I promise you scalpers are in the club, and are WAY more likely to know about and employ these methods than your average fan.

I completely agree with this.

tempo_n_groove

Being new to 10C and this being the first time I have entered the lottery, I think it was great. What I don't like is that "local" ChiTown people did not get them. That is just wrong. Locals should get first. Within a 100 mile radius too.
Just my 2cents.

Thank you...and good nite.

rearviewross

tempo_n_groove wrote:

Being new to 10C and this being the first time I have entered the lottery, I think it was great. What I don't like is that "local" ChiTown people did not get them. That is just wrong. Locals should get first. Within a 100 mile radius too.
Just my 2cents.

Thank you...and good nite.

Welcome to the real world.

tempo_n_groove

rearviewross wrote:

tempo_n_groove wrote:

Being new to 10C and this being the first time I have entered the lottery, I think it was great. What I don't like is that "local" ChiTown people did not get them. That is just wrong. Locals should get first. Within a 100 mile radius too.
Just my 2cents.

Thank you...and good nite.

Welcome to the real world.

Hopefully PJ will read these forums and act/react. I'm stoked to go to a show, but there are people who are mad. Granted you can't please everyone...

rearviewross

tempo_n_groove wrote:

rearviewross wrote:

tempo_n_groove wrote:

Being new to 10C and this being the first time I have entered the lottery, I think it was great. What I don't like is that "local" ChiTown people did not get them. That is just wrong. Locals should get first. Within a 100 mile radius too.
Just my 2cents.

Thank you...and good nite.

Welcome to the real world.

Hopefully PJ will read these forums and act/react. \.

october22

rearviewross wrote:

tempo_n_groove wrote:

Hopefully PJ will read these forums and act/react. \.

Hey...go easy on 'im. He'll get it soon enough

MG79478

JimmyV wrote:

MG79478 wrote:

This is getting exhausting, not because responding to you is difficult, it’s because I’m extremely busy and no matter how well thought out an argument I make, you will just ignore it and veer towards irrelevant points and personal attacks. Yet I take the time to address nearly every aspect of your posts. In my last post alone you didn’t address most of it, you just honed in on one part. You have completely derailed our discussion and the thread. The only thing close to a discussion of the ticket system in your last post is your talk of cheating, which is F5 specific. So I suggest you go back to my previous post and address my on topic points about the new lottery system, or just stop. But I'm guessing you will just want to respond to this thread and take the post even further off course. Prove me right.

Wife beating? Credit card theft? Insulting my English? What you are doing is not debating.

Hey look, you proved me right! You continued to take the thread further off course, while almost completely ignoring the content of my post.

Wow, so the guy who has been ducking the debate, and got called out on it, decided his only option was to project his behaviors on me! Did you skip the very first paragraph of my post where I called you out for not debating? Oh, and FYI..I guess you've never heard of analogies, they can be used to make points. If you were actually trying to follow the topic, you'd understand why they were relevant to the debate. I'll take this as you throwing in the towel. Good day.

MG79478

100 Pacer wrote:

The term "cheating" is tossed around all too easily IMO.

Optimizing one's browser is not cheating the system. Running CCleaner on one's machine is not cheating. Copying & pasting the secure URL for the Tickets section in the Goods shop into one's browser is not cheating.

For the vast majority that was the extent of their "advantage".

Agree 100%. Let's face it, if you earned a slight advantage over someone, they got pissed and called you a cheater. People should be allowed to figure out a method that gives them a better chance. Was it cheating back in the day when you knew of a small ticketmaster outlet that no went to, that got you great seats because there was no line?

PJStatTracker wrote:

I'm a fan of the lottery, as I've discussed in other threads. There were definitely back doors with the old system, and the playing field needed to be leveled. I wouldn't go as far as to call it "cheating", but I certainly wouldn't call it "fair".

Thankfully, they have changed their cart system, and closed the back doors. And the lottery closes them for good. I promise you scalpers are in the club, and are WAY more likely to know about and employ these methods than your average fan.

I didn't know all that stuff and I still got tickets 100% of the time, simply by optimizing what I was doing. I studied the system and looked for advantages, I put in the time hitting F5 until I got the tickets I wanted. Everyone had the exact same opportunity to do the same. Cheating would be if someone got a special link from a buddy at the 10C, and used it to buy tickets the day before we could. Simply earning a slight advantage over your competitors is not cheating. In professional sports, are you a fan of every player getting the same time in the weight room, and every team getting exactly the same practice time? Wouldn't that "level the playing field"?

I see no reason why a scalper would be more likely to employ these methods. In fact, it's logical that a fan who just wanted the tickets for them self would have more motivation to learn and use these methods.

PJStatTracker wrote:

I would also offer a counter-argument to the claim that because it's easy more people will enter and therefore everyone's odds are worse. While this is absolutely true for a 1 or 2 show sale like London/Chicago, I think this won't be a real issue with a more extended tour, assuming they all go on "sale" at once.

The really big shows, like MSG will be much harder to get no matter how many stops are on the tour. The smaller shows were never that big in demand, and generally anyone who wanted them got them. So your point is moot.

SpinTheBlackCircle74

I liked the F5 version better.