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New Lottery System

jeffmack22sdjeffmack22sd Posts: 384
edited August 2013 in The Porch
Curious to see if anyone else filled out the feedback survey on the new lottery system. As I know must of you probably feel the same way I do and wish they went back to the old system. At least then I felt like I had a better chance when I was actually hitting the keyboard instead of waiting in some virtual waiting room. Would love some feedback.

Jeff
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    Indifference71Indifference71 Chicago Posts: 14,747
    Curious to see if anyone else filled out the feedback survey on the new lottery system. As I know must of you probably feel the same way I do and wish they went back to the old system. At least then I felt like I had a better chance when I was actually hitting the keyboard instead of waiting in some virtual waiting room. Would love some feedback.

    Jeff


    The virtual waiting room was tickets.com. That had zero to do with the 10c and the lottery system. Personally, I like the new lottery system. I'd rather do that than waste hours on end sitting by my computer pressing F5.
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    I get that it was tickets.com but at least when your hitting f5 for however long at least you feel like you we're doing your best to get tickets, instead of just sitting there and waiting for two hours and then nothing. Maybe I feel slighted that I got shut out for tickets. Just seemed like the other way, I was successful in getting tickets. Hopefully the tickets for Chicago will go down and everyone who loves PJ will get to see and epic 3 hour 35+ song set. Just seems like this time less 10c members had a shot.
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    shortstackshortstack Posts: 2,339
    The virtual waiting room was tickets.com. That had zero to do with the 10c and the lottery system. Personally, I like the new lottery system. I'd rather do that than waste hours on end sitting by my computer pressing F5.


    did you win tickets?
    did you see me? i saw you.
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    Shut out both times. Flight and hotel already booked though. Wife and I celebrating second wedding anniversary there. Hoping I won't have to pay an arm and a leg to get in.
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    Maybe just bummed I didn't get selected. Did you win?
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    Indifference71Indifference71 Chicago Posts: 14,747
    shortstack wrote:
    The virtual waiting room was tickets.com. That had zero to do with the 10c and the lottery system. Personally, I like the new lottery system. I'd rather do that than waste hours on end sitting by my computer pressing F5.


    did you win tickets?


    I did get lucky and won the 2nd chance tickets. But even before that happened and I missed out on the first sale, I was a big fan of the lottery system. The whole notion of sitting at your computer reloading for hours and hours is just ridiculous and a complete waste of time. It's never going to be perfect, but I think the lottery is better than the old way.
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    Nice man and congrats to you. Totally here where your coming from. Maybe it's just me. Just wonder how its going to be when there is a whole tour and several shows are up for a lottery. Chances are much better than. Just sucks seeing what the actual tickets are going for on several websites, even on Craigslist people are selling tickets 300-400% over face value. Just wonder if they are real true fans or not. I know if I had extra tickets, I would totally hook up a fellow 10c member.
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    shortstackshortstack Posts: 2,339
    Just wonder how its going to be when there is a whole tour and several shows are up for a lottery. Chances are much better than.

    let's hope
    did you see me? i saw you.
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    october22october22 Posts: 2,533
    Why do people think it's either lottery or sitting at the computer for hours hitting f5? How about building a site that can handle traffic? Problem solved, no need for a lottery. What's so hard about that?
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    8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    wait, there was a feedback form :x
    81 is now off the air

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    Paul AndrewsPaul Andrews Posts: 2,489
    october22 wrote:
    Why do people think it's either lottery or sitting at the computer for hours hitting f5? How about building a site that can handle traffic? Problem solved, no need for a lottery. What's so hard about that?


    Fine if you want your membership fees to be in the thousands per year. That is what it will cost to build a system and infrastructure to handle these bandwidth spikes. Those ticketmaster fees don't just go to their slush funds or executive bonuses.

    The infrastructure required for a few hours per year would be totally wasted the other 364 days per year - no-one needs that kind of redundancy in a band website. If you look at what ticketmaster/livenation spend on their online infrastructure, it is totally unrealistic for this site to go down that path.

    So the answer is, subcontract ticket sales to ticketmaster or other some ticket sellers or come up if an in house system that is fair. 10 Club chose the later. If there were a cost effective and reliable third party way of handling these sales, some bright spark would have presented it to the 10C but now.

    The illusion that there is any skill involved or effort deserving reward in hitting f5 over and over or using a bot is just that - an illusion. You're just as likely to get ticket on your first refresh as your 10 thousandth.

    The stupid thing is, the more refreshes, the more the system bogs down and the worse it becomes for everyone. Even reputable ticket sellers often have their website fail in huge spikes created by popular ticket sales and other events. Remember CNN crashing on 9/11.

    At least they have given us a way to put in a request, get on with our lives and do something else rather than pull our hair out at the computer.

    Sure it sucks if you don't get a ticket in the lottery, but it always did suck for those who missed out. There are only so many tickets available and until the band talks venues into allowing them to sell unlimited 10C tickets, it will always suck for some people at certain venues.

    And for the record. I missed out on MSG 2 tickets in the 10c sale but got Missoula tickets in the lottery.
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    october22october22 Posts: 2,533
    edited April 2013
    october22 wrote:
    Why do people think it's either lottery or sitting at the computer for hours hitting f5? How about building a site that can handle traffic? Problem solved, no need for a lottery. What's so hard about that?


    Fine if you want your membership fees to be in the thousands per year. That is what it will cost to build a system and infrastructure to handle these bandwidth spikes. Those ticketmaster fees don't just go to their slush funds or executive bonuses.

    The infrastructure required for a few hours per year would be totally wasted the other 364 days per year - no-one needs that kind of redundancy in a band website. If you look at what ticketmaster/livenation spend on their online infrastructure, it is totally unrealistic for this site to go down that path.

    So the answer is, subcontract ticket sales to ticketmaster or other some ticket sellers or come up if an in house system that is fair. 10 Club chose the later. If there were a cost effective and reliable third party way of handling these sales, some bright spark would have presented it to the 10C but now.

    The illusion that there is any skill involved or effort deserving reward in hitting f5 over and over or using a bot is just that - an illusion. You're just as likely to get ticket on your first refresh as your 10 thousandth.

    The stupid thing is, the more refreshes, the more the system bogs down and the worse it becomes for everyone. Even reputable ticket sellers often have their website fail in huge spikes created by popular ticket sales and other events. Remember CNN crashing on 9/11.

    At least they have given us a way to put in a request, get on with our lives and do something else rather than pull our hair out at the computer.

    Sure it sucks if you don't get a ticket in the lottery, but it always did suck for those who missed out. There are only so many tickets available and until the band talks venues into allowing them to sell unlimited 10C tickets, it will always suck for some people at certain venues.

    And for the record. I missed out on MSG 2 tickets in the 10c sale but got Missoula tickets in the lottery.

    Fair points for sure. We will see how it's handled when they come to more crowded markets. I am too tired to go down this road at the moment but I still have a problem with sectioning off markets by region but oh well.

    I didn't know any special tricks to win tickets with the old system and I scored every single time, every single tour so obviously the odds of winning are not the same for those of us who showed up on time and didn't give up as it will be for a random lottery. It wasn't an illusion, it was a fact. If you stayed at the computer and refreshed, no matter how annoying it was, your odds increased. Not much different than waiting in line, sometimes over night to score tickets like I used to do in the old days. A little more effort yields better results. This was certainly true for me and all my friends. At the very least, it tipped the scales in our favor.

    And trust me, I'm not bitter. My brother won GA to Wrigley and I won lower bowl but I'm not stupid enough to think we'll ever get that lucky again. We have a pair to bring friends with and it's going to be awesome. That doesn't change how I feel about the lotto system though. I'm not pissed at 10C or anything. I understand the pressures they're faced with with regards to trying to please the majority of people, it's just that I get frustrated when people say the lotto and the old system afford you the same odds because they don't. The old system did tip the scales towards "effort", however you define it. Not to mention that it's going to be totally fucked around here when you're allowed to "win" 10C seats to only one show per market.

    Anyway, fuck. I guess I did find the energy to write some rambling excuse for a post. Hope some of that made sense. You do make excellent points about the infrastructure issues and I totally get it. Fucking Australians. Speaking of fucking and Australians, have you heard of Kiki Vidis? Wow...

    Alright, I'm gonna go count steps walking backwards on the road and fall asleep. Peace.
    Post edited by october22 on
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    Paul AndrewsPaul Andrews Posts: 2,489
    october22 wrote:

    I didn't know any special tricks to win tickets with the old system and I scored every singe time, every single tour so obviously the odds of winning are not the same for those of us who showed up on time and didn't give up as it will be for a random lottery. It wasn't an illusion, it was a fact. If you stayed at the computer and refreshed, no matter how annoying it was, your odds increased. Not much different than waiting in line, sometimes over night to score tickets like I used to do in the old days. A little more effort yields better results. This was certainly true for me and all my friends. At the very least, it tipped the scales in our favor.

    And trust me, I'm not bitter. My brother won GA to Wrigley and I won lower bowl but I'm not stupid enough to think we'll ever get that lucky again. We have a pair to bring friends with and it's going to be awesome. That doesn't change how I feel about the lotto system though. I'm not pissed at 10C or anything. I understand the pressures they're faced with with regards to trying to please the majority of people, it's just that I get frustrated when people say the lotto and the old system afford you the same odds because they don't. The old system did tip the scales towards "effort", however you define it. Not to mention that it's going to be totally fucked around here when you're allowed to "win" 10C seats to only one show per market.

    Anyway, fuck. I guess I did find the energy to write some rambling excuse for a post. Hope some of that made sense. You do make excellent points about the infrastructure issues and I totally get it. Fucking Australians. Speaking of fucking and Australians, have you heard of Kiki Vidis? Wow...

    Alright, I'm gonna go count steps walking backwards on the road and fall asleep. Peace.

    Yeah, it's cool, you didn't come across as bitter... maybe twisted, but not bitter :lol:

    Persistence was probably rewarded in some ways, however it was still luck as many people were just as persistent - I know I was. I had MSG2 tickets in my cart and then the crash wiped them out, I kept trying for hours (woke up in the middle of the night local time) as kept trying up until the sold out was posted. I tried all the web geek (that's my job) tricks to have multiple opportunities and still missed out, so my effort, which was probably more than many others was not rewarded. I still say success through skill was an illusion.

    I scored tickets to LA3 in 2009 without any problems, but lucked out on MSG2 2010.

    I think MSG is probably not a good show to base things on as these shows were insane on all sales. I failed on the 10c sale, then failed on the ticketmaster 10c presale, the regular ticketmaster presale and finally got them in the general sale.

    Either way, I'm just glad I wont have to go through that cluster fuck again. And I know that even if I miss out on the 10c sale, there will be tickets somehow (even if I have to pay through the nose).

    And, no, hadn't heard of Kiki before... just found her site.. she kinda looks like my wife :?
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    Indifference71Indifference71 Chicago Posts: 14,747
    Nice man and congrats to you. Totally here where your coming from. Maybe it's just me. Just wonder how its going to be when there is a whole tour and several shows are up for a lottery. Chances are much better than. Just sucks seeing what the actual tickets are going for on several websites, even on Craigslist people are selling tickets 300-400% over face value. Just wonder if they are real true fans or not. I know if I had extra tickets, I would totally hook up a fellow 10c member.

    Thanks. I definitely think it will be much different when it is an actual tour. This Wrigley show is obviously a hot ticket. Definitely agree that it sucks to see how much money these tickets are going for. Prices should go down as the show gets closer. At least I hope they do.
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    october22october22 Posts: 2,533
    october22 wrote:

    I didn't know any special tricks to win tickets with the old system and I scored every singe time, every single tour so obviously the odds of winning are not the same for those of us who showed up on time and didn't give up as it will be for a random lottery. It wasn't an illusion, it was a fact. If you stayed at the computer and refreshed, no matter how annoying it was, your odds increased. Not much different than waiting in line, sometimes over night to score tickets like I used to do in the old days. A little more effort yields better results. This was certainly true for me and all my friends. At the very least, it tipped the scales in our favor.

    And trust me, I'm not bitter. My brother won GA to Wrigley and I won lower bowl but I'm not stupid enough to think we'll ever get that lucky again. We have a pair to bring friends with and it's going to be awesome. That doesn't change how I feel about the lotto system though. I'm not pissed at 10C or anything. I understand the pressures they're faced with with regards to trying to please the majority of people, it's just that I get frustrated when people say the lotto and the old system afford you the same odds because they don't. The old system did tip the scales towards "effort", however you define it. Not to mention that it's going to be totally fucked around here when you're allowed to "win" 10C seats to only one show per market.

    Anyway, fuck. I guess I did find the energy to write some rambling excuse for a post. Hope some of that made sense. You do make excellent points about the infrastructure issues and I totally get it. Fucking Australians. Speaking of fucking and Australians, have you heard of Kiki Vidis? Wow...

    Alright, I'm gonna go count steps walking backwards on the road and fall asleep. Peace.

    Yeah, it's cool, you didn't come across as bitter... maybe twisted, but not bitter :lol:

    Persistence was probably rewarded in some ways, however it was still luck as many people were just as persistent - I know I was. I had MSG2 tickets in my cart and then the crash wiped them out, I kept trying for hours (woke up in the middle of the night local time) as kept trying up until the sold out was posted. I tried all the web geek (that's my job) tricks to have multiple opportunities and still missed out, so my effort, which was probably more than many others was not rewarded. I still say success through skill was an illusion.

    I scored tickets to LA3 in 2009 without any problems, but lucked out on MSG2 2010.

    I think MSG is probably not a good show to base things on as these shows were insane on all sales. I failed on the 10c sale, then failed on the ticketmaster 10c presale, the regular ticketmaster presale and finally got them in the general sale.

    Either way, I'm just glad I wont have to go through that cluster fuck again. And I know that even if I miss out on the 10c sale, there will be tickets somehow (even if I have to pay through the nose).

    And, no, hadn't heard of Kiki before... just found her site.. she kinda looks like my wife :?

    Holy shit! She looks like your wife?!? You lucky bastard!

    I mean, yeah PJ tickets and all that... good stuff
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    8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    F5
    81 is now off the air

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    october22october22 Posts: 2,533
    All day, every day.
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    RE4790RE4790 Posts: 795
    october22 wrote:
    Why do people think it's either lottery or sitting at the computer for hours hitting f5? How about building a site that can handle traffic? Problem solved, no need for a lottery. What's so hard about that?


    Fine if you want your membership fees to be in the thousands per year. That is what it will cost to build a system and infrastructure to handle these bandwidth spikes. Those ticketmaster fees don't just go to their slush funds or executive bonuses.

    The infrastructure required for a few hours per year would be totally wasted the other 364 days per year - no-one needs that kind of redundancy in a band website. If you look at what ticketmaster/livenation spend on their online infrastructure, it is totally unrealistic for this site to go down that path.

    Yeah, if only there were some kind of massive, well-established, auto-scaling, elastic computing cloud that runs on a pay-what-you-use basis that could be leveraged. Ticketing would be as smooth as lazily drifting down a giant river in Brazil.


    And MSG is the problem, thus that is what the solution should be engineered to. No one designs cars to only handle a 3 mile an hour collision. IMHO, The lotto went smoothly. We got ease of use in exchange for reduced chance of getting tickets, but if you remember back to Toronto 2011, MSG 2010, and PJ20 that is exactly what people on this board were demanding. It may not have been what a majority of 10c'ers want, since a majority don't post here, but the squeaky wheel gets this grease and in their anger and frustration with the system, there were lots of squeaky wheels.
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    SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 24,808
    I love the new lottery system.
    LOVE IT!

    Now lets make the 1st 20 rows ALL lottery seats..
    Not just 1-2-9-10
    Lets make the 1st 20 rows lottery!!!!!!!
    And all will be good in the World!
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    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
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    Tuta23Tuta23 Posts: 114
    I just wish seniority meant something again.

    Even if it wasn't ticket related.... maybe old timers get a t-shirt AND a walking cane...
    I am not a Thief of Silence.
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    8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    Tuta23 wrote:
    I just wish seniority meant something again.

    it still does :fp:
    81 is now off the air

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    rival.rival. Chicago Posts: 7,776
    i am still confused how people think that the F5 method was NOT a lottery.

    you were either lucky enough or not to get into 10C's crashed site. same odds as the new system.
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    RE4790RE4790 Posts: 795
    rival. wrote:
    i am still confused how people think that the F5 method was NOT a lottery.

    you were either lucky enough or not to get into 10C's crashed site. same odds as the new system.

    We make a distinction between a functioning system vs. a crashing one. The system only crashed for a handful of shows. For the first half dozen in 2010, it was easy.

    Also, please remember that making the system easy means more people will try. Thus the odds are not the same.
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    vant0037vant0037 Posts: 6,075
    I get that it was tickets.com but at least when your hitting f5 for however long at least you feel like you we're doing your best to get tickets, instead of just sitting there and waiting for two hours and then nothing. Maybe I feel slighted that I got shut out for tickets. Just seemed like the other way, I was successful in getting tickets. Hopefully the tickets for Chicago will go down and everyone who loves PJ will get to see and epic 3 hour 35+ song set. Just seems like this time less 10c members had a shot.

    Your "control" was an illusion.

    I felt like Morpheus saying that, but it's true.
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    shortstackshortstack Posts: 2,339
    RE4790 wrote:

    Also, please remember that making the system easy means more people will try. Thus the odds are not the same.

    absolutely
    did you see me? i saw you.
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    All excellent comments across the board. My main thing was I felt hopeless with a laptop, two iPads, two iPhones, and a work cell phone all going at once and nothing for an hour and a half. Maybe the F5 was luck and there was not control but maybe for me the effort meant something. I got shut out of MSG but a fellow member from the forum had an extra one. But other than that. LA 09 and San Diego, I had awesome seats. Now, knowing that all these outside sites have numerous amounts of tickets for Chicago and going rate for GA is anywhere between 1,600-5,000. Hopefully, I can have a fellow 10c member help me out. But everyone is right, there really isn't a perfect way to make everyone happy

    F5
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    nukebootnukeboot Posts: 1,465
    Anyone know how many active members there are in the Ten Club?

    Some of you are making it sound like they need a Cray supercomputer to handle ticketing.
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    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sorry, just a fan of the old way. Will see when it comes to more shows and watch I'll get everyone I want to go to and come back and praise the lottery system.
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    Isoworld13Isoworld13 Posts: 221
    Lost the first 3 PJ lotteries (all 3 tiers of Wrigley going GA/Lower Bowl/Upper as my priority order) due to not fully understanding the way it worked, which is partially my fault and partially the way it was explained. If I had been explicitly told that going for Lower Bowl GREATLY increased my chances of tickets, I would have picked that in an INSTANT due to my low member # (which would have all but guarenteed me phenomenal seats). I THOUGHT it was a lottery for all 3 at once. Meaning you had the CHANCE to win all 3, and THEN you were given your priority choice, and if you had multiple hits, your #1 priority would take precedence and any other hits you had would be thrown back into the pool. Instead it was a lottery for JUST 1st priority, then the rest, so if you picked Lower as your 2nd choice, you actually only had a chance at what was left after the 1st priority lottery. This makes choosing GA as a 2nd or 3rd choice NOT EVEN A LOTTERY, as those tickets never existed. I also participated in the Phish lottery for Saturday Night's show and ALSO lost (not as bad though because you don't pay a membership fee with Phish). In the end, I EASILY got tickets through tickets.com on the floor for PJ and even easilier got GA tickets through livenation for Phish the day they went on sale. Have to say that live nation was easier and faster though. I don't like lotteries. Announce a time and day and who gets them gets them. A FAN GETS them. If that means missing work or something else, then thats what it means. Sorry. PS... Tuesdays at 1PM EST works great for me ;)
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    Paul AndrewsPaul Andrews Posts: 2,489
    nukeboot wrote:
    Anyone know how many active members there are in the Ten Club?

    Some of you are making it sound like they need a Cray supercomputer to handle ticketing.

    Well this is the point, they don't apart from a few hours a year when there is a massive surge in page requests and pressure on the cart for certain shows. There are way to minimise this like staggering show sale times, but ultimately shows like MSG, Wrigley will always create a spike that not many systems will be able to handle.

    Lets say 10k people want MSG tickets, will there is 10k requests in those first few seconds as the sale starts and then all the page refreshes. Not many sites can handle that.
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