Minimum wage hike voted down...

Prince Of Dorkness

unsung wrote:

Inflation and quantitative easing are why the poor can't afford anything, not the GOP voting to not increase min wage.

Economics 101.

You forgot "I failed..."

Sorry. But that's like saying "Water rising and you sinking is why you drowned... not because the Koch brothers were holding your head down."

Prince Of Dorkness

chadwick wrote:

CH156378 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

if you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage with benefits it can be argued that you have no business being in business.

+1

+2

+3.



And by the way... for all of the people here who have said.... because I direct porn movies for a living... that I "exploit" people....

Our performers get paid over $200 per hour. They get a per diem for meals, we pay their travel and hotels and treat them well and with respect.

Anyone who is saying that the people who slave away at places like Walmart don't deserve more than $10 per hour is no longer allowed to accuse of me exploiting anyone.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Jeanwah wrote:

CH156378 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

if you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage with benefits it can be argued that you have no business being in business.

+1

+2

Lets discuss this little comment.

So lets say at the age of 50 I have grown tired of driving a Semi. I decide I am going to open up a nice little corner "Hot dog joint". I have enough in my savings to get my Hot Dog joint opened up and all is going good. I have enough business to hire a couple of 18-20 year olds to work the 2nd and 3rd shifts, flipping burgers and serving chili. After a couple years my little business is giving me a $40K a year profit. Obviously I am not getting rich, but I am happy to have my own business and I am easily making ends meet. But now the GOVERNMENT has decided that I must give my employees a $3 an hour raise. HUH? I have to give out $12K in raises within the next 18 months? HUH? Wait a second, my little business is only making me $40K a year, but in 18 months I am only going to pull in $28K in profit? WTF am I to do? Do I get rid of the help? Do I get rid of one worker and keep one worker? Do I fire both workers and only stay open 16 hours a day? Because honestly I just cant afford to give out another 12K in payroll. Now what?

Oh well, I shouldnt have been in business anyway. Right?

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Interesting

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1176,d.aWc


In 2011, 73.9 million American workers age 16 and over were paid at hourly rates, representing 59.1 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 1.7 million earned exactly the prevailing Federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 2.2 million had wages below the minimum. Together, these 3.8 million workers with wages at or below the Federal minimum made up 5.2 percent of all hourly-paid workers.


Minimum wage earners make up only 5.2% of all hourly wage earners? HMMMMM


Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly-paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 23 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over.

Half of the people making minimum wage are under the age of 25? HMMMMMM

Prince Of Dorkness

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

So lets say at the age of 50 I have grown tired of driving a Semi. I decide I am going to open up a nice little corner "Hot dog joint". I have enough in my savings to get my Hot Dog joint opened up and all is going good. I have enough business to hire a couple of 18-20 year olds to work the 2nd and 3rd shifts, flipping burgers and serving chili. After a couple years my little business is giving me a $40K a year profit. Obviously I am not getting rich, but I am happy to have my own business and I am easily making ends meet. But now the GOVERNMENT has decided that I must give my employees a $3 an hour raise. HUH? I have to give out $12K in raises within the next 18 months? HUH? Wait a second, my little business is only making me $40K a year, but in 18 months I am only going to pull in $28K in profit? WTF am I to do? Do I get rid of the help? Do I get rid of one worker and keep one worker? Do I fire both workers and only stay open 16 hours a day? Because honestly I just cant afford to give out another 12K in payroll. Now what?

Oh well, I shouldnt have been in business anyway. Right?

No. honestly, you shouldn't.

If the only way you can stay in business is to pay your employees that little, and the government has been enabling you to do so since the 70s... you shouldn't have opened a business anyway.

Sorry. I know that hot dog stand was your dream and all but because you can't do enough business to pay your staff a living wage, I have to subsidize their food stamps and medicaid. Frankly, I don't see why I should have to carry your ass with my tax dollars because you want to own a business that you can't really run very well.

Don't like it?

then get a job. I'm not going to carry your lazy ass.

Prince Of Dorkness

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Half of the people making minimum wage are under the age of 25? HMMMMMM

HHHMMMMM what?

That also means that half of minimum wage earners are OVER the age of 25.

And I'm not sure what your point is, anyway.

That young people shouldn't be able to afford to live and eat and pay rent and see a doctor because you want to open a hot dog stand?

brianlux

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

if you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage with benefits it can be argued that you have no business being in business.

+1

Lets discuss this little comment.

So lets say at the age of 50 I have grown tired of driving a Semi. I decide I am going to open up a nice little corner "Hot dog joint". I have enough in my savings to get my Hot Dog joint opened up and all is going good. I have enough business to hire a couple of 18-20 year olds to work the 2nd and 3rd shifts, flipping burgers and serving chili. After a couple years my little business is giving me a $40K a year profit. Obviously I am not getting rich, but I am happy to have my own business and I am easily making ends meet. But now the GOVERNMENT has decided that I must give my employees a $3 an hour raise. HUH? I have to give out $12K in raises within the next 18 months? HUH? Wait a second, my little business is only making me $40K a year, but in 18 months I am only going to pull in $28K in profit? WTF am I to do? Do I get rid of the help? Do I get rid of one worker and keep one worker? Do I fire both workers and only stay open 16 hours a day? Because honestly I just cant afford to give out another 12K in payroll. Now what?

Oh well, I shouldnt have been in business anyway. Right?

First donuts, now hot dogs. Speedy, we need to talk about your diet.

But seriously, no you shouldn't be in small business if you can't afford to be. Listen, I'm not just blowing hot air here. My wife has had her business for thirty years. The first ten of those years she and her business partner ran the thing pretty much on there own and worked two, sometimes three jobs to make it go. The second ten were a bit easier. The last ten she's had me- life got much easier- what can I say?

Look, that's how it works. What you can't afford to hire people to do, you do yourself. Besides the more left brain business stuff and the always on-going and forever learning about the world of books, we clean the books as they come in, change light bulbs, sweep the sidewalk, etc., etc. The extra help are students and retired people who are happy for the work and the slightly better pay than what the coffee shop down the street pays- it's extra income, not living wages AND they do get more than minimum. If they were all full time employees, we would have to close the doors permanently. If you can't afford to pay decent wages and you can't afford to be in small business and you can't or won't do a heck of a lot of the hard work yourself, no- you should not be in small business. People don't get this, which is why we see small businesses go under all the time- not because the wages are too high, but because the owners don't understand how it works. If all small business owners understood this, raising the minimum wage would not be a problem. They would hire what they can afford and do the rest themselves.

But look, most of the jobs that are affected by raising minimum wages are jobs provided by large companies, chain stores and corporations- super stores like Walmart and Costco, the motel industry, the clothing industry, etc. The money is there- is is definitely there- but it's held at the top by the G-R-E-E-D-Y.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Half of the people making minimum wage are under the age of 25? HMMMMMM

HHHMMMMM what?

That also means that half of minimum wage earners are OVER the age of 25.

And I'm not sure what your point is, anyway.

That young people shouldn't be able to afford to live and eat and pay rent and see a doctor because you want to open a hot dog stand?

EDIT

Nevermind.
One thing I have learned over the last year.
YOU my friend, are not worth the fucking time of day.

Carry on.

pandora

Yum ketchup sandwiches, if you're lucky enough to have some bread.
We remember those days as well.
Except those born with a silver spoon and maybe even they too have all had to work hard
and I'm sure continue to.
We as business owners put in very long hours and are rarely off duty
even when we can sneak away for a PJ concert.

It is clear the two sides once again on how to handle the problem we have.
I think it is all telling that some assume the business owners actually do much better than their employees.
The mom and pop restaurants... do we think they are much above the poverty level, no.
Then we have those saying that business should not be in business
cause it can't pay more than minimum wage.
These people just took away jobs for more than 20 people at the blink of the eye
Good going.

Jeanwah

hedonist wrote:

Jeanwah, I wanted to say also (even re-booted my POS home computer to do so ) that I hope your employment search goes well, is fruitful. Anyone else in a similar position too.

I'm not familiar with your specific work background, but from what I know of you here, your ethics are kickass. That's invaluable and carries over into many industries.

Thanks hedonist! I'm switching fields so I know that sometimes in order to do so, starting near the bottom is necessary.

Jeanwah

You can tell from some posts who's cut out for entrepreneurship and who's not.

mikepegg44

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

unsung wrote:

Inflation and quantitative easing are why the poor can't afford anything, not the GOP voting to not increase min wage.

Economics 101.

You forgot "I failed..."

Sorry. But that's like saying "Water rising and you sinking is why you drowned... not because the Koch brothers were holding your head down."

it isn't anything like that, in any way...

It is like people choose to ignore economics. They choose to ignore the negatives from the most well meaning programs. This thread makes me sad. it goes back to the point I was trying to make before, if you don't think a mandatory minimum wage increase is a smart idea you are a Koch brother stooge who HATES the poor. Truly is bullshit.

No one has addressed my point about a raise in your hourly wage costing you more in benefits than you are getting in a raise. No one will address the math, just simply blanket business and say if you cannot pay your employees 11.00 an hour you must be a terrible business owner. Don't forget about the 6.2% payroll tax that they will have to pay at the end of the year as well. I haven't seen anyone address the problems that real business owners would face with the math. But hey, they are just shitty business owners...maybe the gov't should bail them out too.

It isn't as cut and dry as people would like to make it. But whatever, I hate the poor

pandora

Jeanwah wrote:

You can tell from some posts who's cut out for entrepreneurship and who's not.

Wow, I was thinking the exact same! We have so enjoyed our 20 years
and the 50 plus lives we have shared in our employer employee relationships.
You have no idea how wonderful that is!
This is the best part of being an entrepreneur, what we can do for others.

I hope you find an employer who treats you well as
perhaps this may change your negative outlook towards business owners.
Most are not heartless, most live to make others happy.
That is a great way to live! Something employee and employers can learn alike.

unsung

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

unsung wrote:

Inflation and quantitative easing are why the poor can't afford anything, not the GOP voting to not increase min wage.

Economics 101.

You forgot "I failed..."

Sorry. But that's like saying "Water rising and you sinking is why you drowned... not because the Koch brothers were holding your head down."

It's called supply and demand. The more there is of something the less it's worth. Basic Econ, sorry you can't grasp that.

unsung

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

No. honestly, you shouldn't.

If the only way you can stay in business is to pay your employees that little, and the government has been enabling you to do so since the 70s... you shouldn't have opened a business anyway.

Sorry. I know that hot dog stand was your dream and all but because you can't do enough business to pay your staff a living wage, I have to subsidize their food stamps and medicaid. Frankly, I don't see why I should have to carry your ass with my tax dollars because you want to own a business that you can't really run very well.

Don't like it?

then get a job. I'm not going to carry your lazy ass.

Hilarious. A free man takes on his own risk to be successful and provide for his family and you think he should be obligated to pay a government mandated wage and if he can't tough shit.

The reality is there should be no minimum wage at all. Don't like it? Don't want to work there? Then open your own business. Assume your own risk.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Jeanwah wrote:

You can tell from some posts who's cut out for entrepreneurship and who's not.

You can surely tell a lot about people from their posts, in regards to work ethic, and actually making a contribution to society. Cant you?

Prince Of Dorkness

unsung wrote:

Hilarious. A free man takes on his own risk to be successful and provide for his family and you think he should be obligated to pay a government mandated wage and if he can't tough shit.

The reality is there should be no minimum wage at all. Don't like it? Don't want to work there? Then open your own business. Assume your own risk.

Ok see, THAT is hilarious.

Oh... You libertarians wail and whine about "free men" (women are still chained to the stove in their perfect world) and prattle on about how he should be free to ruck over anyone he wants. And the evil government should stay out of it.

Of course... When the poor and desperate people living on a dollar a day storm his house looking for food... Oh, he's on the phone to the police he complains about having to pay and when he has that nice "government regulation-free electrical wiring" in his business burst into flames, he calls the firemen there or put it out with his own tears.

No. Sorry. But this isn't India and you're going to have to learn to accept that we have a minimum wage and that it's should,be something that we can all live on.

Andi did start my own business, thanks, and I work my ass off and do the work myself.

Prince Of Dorkness

unsung wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

unsung wrote:

Inflation and quantitative easing are why the poor can't afford anything, not the GOP voting to not increase min wage.

Economics 101.

You forgot "I failed..."

Sorry. But that's like saying "Water rising and you sinking is why you drowned... not because the Koch brothers were holding your head down."

It's called supply and demand. The more there is of something the less it's worth. Basic Econ, sorry you can't grasp that.

Having a libertarian tell me I can't grasp economics is like having a Britney Spears fan tell me I don't appreciate good music.

You are funny and all, but you don't seem to understand what words mean.

But you're right about one thing... The more of your bullshit you spew, the more worthless you become.

Go Beavers

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

You can tell from some posts who's cut out for entrepreneurship and who's not.

You can surely tell a lot about people from their posts, in regards to work ethic, and actually making a contribution to society. Cant you?

I don't think you can tell anything about anyone's work ethic in this thread. You'd be making assumptions, otherwise.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Go Beavers wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

You can tell from some posts who's cut out for entrepreneurship and who's not.

You can surely tell a lot about people from their posts, in regards to work ethic, and actually making a contribution to society. Cant you?

I don't think you can tell anything about anyone's work ethic in this thread. You'd be making assumptions, otherwise.

One thing I do know.
I knew damned well when this thread was started, what this thread was truly all about.
The OP is going back to work.