I think this vote is part of the Democrat’s massively successful plan to value perception over policy to the general public. They know the raise is unsustainable in the eyes of the GOP and that it would be blocked.
Hence they are the heroes for doing essentially nothing. This was the essence of the 2012 campaign. Public perception meant more than public policy.
We are moving off topic. Botttom line is that the government should not be telling business owners, large or small, how they should pay employees. If you want a higher paying job, do something about it. Go out and look for a betterjob. Acquire the skills needed to qualify yourself for a higher paying job.
I know this isn't possible for everyone. But it is for a lot of people. For many food stamp recipients, a minimum wage increase means less food stamps. And we can't have that.
Not on one salary, no. Back when I had crap for income, I lived in crap housing with roommates. We split housing, electric, food. I didn't buy flat screen TVs or new computers or ipads every other year. I drove a used car and shopped at discount men's clothiers. I didn't take trips/vacations further than I could drive in a few hours and when I did, we had more people than I care to admit piled into the hotel room.
I think this vote is part of the Democrat’s massively successful plan to value perception over policy to the general public. They know the raise is unsustainable in the eyes of the GOP and that it would be blocked.
Hence they are the heroes for doing essentially nothing. This was the essence of the 2012 campaign. Public perception meant more than public policy.
Genius. Pure genius.
.
Bout time they got smart like that. GOP has been doing for decades with things like Abortion and small government
Not on one salary, no. Back when I had crap for income, I lived in crap housing with roommates. We split housing, electric, food. I didn't buy flat screen TVs or new computers or ipads every other year. I drove a used car and shopped at discount men's clothiers. I didn't take trips/vacations further than I could drive in a few hours and when I did, we had more people than I care to admit piled into the hotel room.
19 people up in one hotel room?
love your post
Haha man that would be a scene. The most I can recall was maybe 8-10 people (mix of girls and guys :shock: ) in a single motel room w/ two double beds. And you know what? I remember those vacations as fondly as the fancy 5star ones I've taken since. It's all about perspective.
I think this vote is part of the Democrat’s massively successful plan to value perception over policy to the general public. They know the raise is unsustainable in the eyes of the GOP and that it would be blocked.
Hence they are the heroes for doing essentially nothing. This was the essence of the 2012 campaign. Public perception meant more than public policy.
Genius. Pure genius.
.
Bout time they got smart like that. GOP has been doing for decades with things like Abortion and small government
I love advice from people who don't own a business, I mean really :?
Maybe they stayed at a Holiday Inn or something...
Like people who think printing is a thing of the past. Have you looked around?
Wonder in a days span how often a person runs into something that is printed....
it's everywhere you go.
Haha man that would be a scene. The most I can recall was maybe 8-10 people (mix of girls and guys :shock: ) in a single motel room w/ two double beds. And you know what? I remember those vacations as fondly as the fancy 5star ones I've taken since. It's all about perspective.
people who suck won't allow you to erect a clothesline nor would they ever in 32 billion years ever sleep 42 people per room at some shitty ass motel. they would however own 17 high dollar cars, go safari hunting and kill rhinos & giraffes & they'd be buying their 9th home while someone flips burgers
suck my bastards, im hanging my clothes in my backyard & im working at god damn wendy's @ $2.99 hourly. see the uniform?
What about someone attending college or graduate school who is part of a research team that works for free under a paid professor? In this case, a person actually pays to work.
Anyone who has ever been in a band is familiar with the term "pay to play." 99% of us have done exactly this at one time or another with mixed results. Sometimes it's a waste of time and money, sometimes it's simply a great experience, other times it serves to make great connections with other people in the industry which may pay off down the road.
Minimum wage or no minimum wage law, people often work for less than the minimum wage, sometimes for free, and sometimes they even pay to work. Like business owners who have to take risks, spend money, and make investments to prosper in the long run, workers must also spend money on education or time working or learning often times for free or at a loss financially.
how about they just drum up more business. why not generate more income by raising your prices some?
if they were that good, wouldn't more people want to be their clients/customers?
Bottom line is $$$ we have to bid everything we get...
quote the job and hope we come in the lowest.
There are few customers now, not like the 90's. who are not bottom dollar.
It cuts into their own bottom dollar their own bread and better and so on.
You have to be good, no margin for mistakes, with great customer service, good product,
at the lowest price. Raise your prices most customers will look elsewhere.
Might not be back.
Drum up more business? ...
in a slow economy everyone cuts back so that is not always a feasible option.
They do less, less often, want to know how they can do it cheaper.
We have watched many a printer close it's doors in the last 20 years,
some very fine business owners at that.
What about someone attending college or graduate school who is part of a research team that works for free under a paid professor? In this case, a person actually pays to work.
Anyone who has ever been in a band is familiar with the term "pay to play." 99% of us have done exactly this at one time or another with mixed results. Sometimes it's a waste of time and money, sometimes it's simply a great experience, other times it serves to make great connections with other people in the industry which may pay off down the road.
Minimum wage or no minimum wage law, people often work for less than the minimum wage, sometimes for free, and sometimes they even pay to work. Like business owners who have to take risks, spend money, and make investments to prosper in the long run, workers must also spend money on education or time working or learning often times for free or at a loss financially.
What about someone attending college or graduate school who is part of a research team that works for free under a paid professor? In this case, a person actually pays to work.
Anyone who has ever been in a band is familiar with the term "pay to play." 99% of us have done exactly this at one time or another with mixed results. Sometimes it's a waste of time and money, sometimes it's simply a great experience, other times it serves to make great connections with other people in the industry which may pay off down the road.
Minimum wage or no minimum wage law, people often work for less than the minimum wage, sometimes for free, and sometimes they even pay to work. Like business owners who have to take risks, spend money, and make investments to prosper in the long run, workers must also spend money on education or time working or learning often times for free or at a loss financially.
the hotel thing reminds me of that scene in spinal tap where the band and crew come piling into the hotel and the manager, ian faith, goes up to the hotel clerk and says "we need our suites now. these men are tired, they have been on the road and they need to get some rest." or something along those lines. i am paraphrasing this whole scene, by the way..... the clerk says "your suite will be ready shortly." ian says "wait, you said suite. we had 7 suites reserved!!!" the clerk says, "oops, there seems to have been a misunderstanding. we had you booked for one suite on the seventh floor...but it is a king leisure bed. it is a very large bed..." ian says "what??? how in god's name are we supposed to fit 15 men into a king leisure bed??" the clerk says "Oh don't tempt me sir...."
:ugeek:
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
In hope that no one from here ever has to go back to working at a minimum wage job ....
I probably will. I've been out on disability and am now looking for work. Since I want to start out p/t, it's likely all I will find is minimum wage.
Sorry to hear this Jeanwah i wish you nothing but the best of health and luck in finding a job ...
It's sad how even here some posters feel no pitty at all , they just wan't people to get skilled and find a high paying job as if they are a dime a dz or call the kids who have these jobs , clowns and crap .....
Thanks jose. It's not only that they feel no pity or consider them clowns, it's the mind frame that business will suffer if minimum wage to go up - that kind of view says that they don't even consider the poor or those that have to work these jobs at all. It's all about their business, themselves... What else to expect from living in America...
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Inflation and quantitative easing are why the poor can't afford anything, not the GOP voting to not increase min wage.
In our business it is all about our employees.
This is so true of the small business owners.
Whether an employer can only pay minimum wage or whether like us our
employees are skilled labor, small business is like a family. We know our employees children,
celebrate holidays, birthdays, births, mourn together in death.
Years upon years together.
I find it so offense when people try to make employers heartless
when these people no absolutely nothing about the personal situations and relationships
of employers and employees. The times we have had to downsize, say who stays who goes,
was extremely upsetting to the point JB and his partner were physically ill from it.
We thought about each employee going home having to tell their spouse and children.
Wondering how or when they would find work. We did this for those who stayed, we had to.
It is not about a profit haven't had one since the 90's, it is about a wonderful machine
of people working together, sharing their lives. Earning money to support their families.
We are one in this.
I can only hope that the people who are so negative toward employers will find an opportunity
like this. To be apart of a family that cares for them.
In our business it is all about our employees.
This is so true of the small business owners.
Whether an employer can only pay minimum wage or whether like us our
employees are skilled labor, small business is like a family. We know our employees children,
celebrate holidays, birthdays, births, mourn together in death.
Years upon years together.
I find it so offense when people try to make employers heartless
when these people no absolutely nothing about the personal situations and relationships
of employers and employees. The times we have had to downsize, say who stays who goes,
was extremely upsetting to the point JB and his partner were physically ill from it.
We thought about each employee going home having to tell their spouse and children.
Wondering how or when they would find work. We did this for those who stayed, we had to.
It is not about a profit haven't had one since the 90's, it is about a wonderful machine
of people working together, sharing their lives. Earning money to support their families.
We are one in this.
I can only hope that the people who are so negative toward employers will find an opportunity
like this. To be apart of a family that cares for them.
you & BJ have a printing business & at this printing business you have not had one single dollar of profit since 1999 or earlier? it is 2013...currently
in 14 years or more you & your husband have not made one single dollar at the family printing business? you folks are either multimillionaires living off interest, investment & smoking & joking or you are bankrupt & stuff.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,083
Boy, reading through this thread I see a number of those good old, "pull yourself up by the boot straps/Horatio Alger" stories. So what if that presupposes that everyone has the mental, physical and emotional make up to "get ahead". And wasn't born in a third world country or ghetto.
Yeah, I'm thinking about my friend Joey who has mild retardation and wants to live independently but isn't qualified to do anything besides busing table for privileged snobs who think that kind of work is beyond them. Next time I see Joey I'll tell him to shape the fuck up.
Or an old buddy O.D.L from central Mexico who came here to escape the endless cycle of poverty and strife and gets what low paying work he can find. Not for himself- but for his family back home where most of his money goes while he sleeps in a barn. I'll be sure to tell him to work on those job skills, the lazy fuck. (Oh, and by the way O., thanks for the healthy broccoli I'm having tonight. Glad I didn't have to pick it... this time.)
And then there's, M. Oh brother! Too bad you got that felony rap for life due to possession of narcotics so many years ago. Yeah, sure, you've always seemed very sincere about regretting that incident way back when and, true, you have made every sacrifice imaginable to get those classes under your belt so you can get that low paying job with the private agency you work for knowing full-well you'll never get to have a decent job like the rest of us, but you should of thought of that back then. Well, what the hell, somebody's got to change the sheets for those cracker barrels. May as well be you. Oh, and you should have been born a man. What a fuck up.
What human trash, huh? Goddamn no good layabouts.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
I don't think it's so either/or, Brian - there've been some valid, reasonable and, I believe, non-judgmental comments in this thread.
That true, and me being an asshole... no, a hemorrhoid... doesn't help.
I feel strongly about the issue, but apologize for any offense.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
To me, its disgusting how large corporations like McDonald's and Walmart treat and pay its employees. I also disagree with a minimum wage increase for many reasons that I won't repeat. But that in no way makes me a bad person or someone that can't empathize with you jean or Brian.
I am lucky to be in the middle class. I've earned and worked my way up to this point. I remember what it was like to open up my refrigerator and see nothing but 3 eggs and a half a bottle of ketchup. But my parents did everything they could to make sure they were hungry, not me or my brother or sister.
That being said, forcing any business to pay wages they can or can't afford, will not help anybody. It is impossible to know everyone's back ground, so don't just assume that because we disagree with you that we are cold hearted people that think poor people are S.O.L. I don't.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,083
To me, its disgusting how large corporations like McDonald's and Walmart treat and pay its employees. I also disagree with a minimum wage increase for many reasons that I won't repeat. But that in no way makes me a bad person or someone that can't empathize with you jean or Brian.
I am lucky to be in the middle class. I've earned and worked my way up to this point. I remember what it was like to open up my refrigerator and see nothing but 3 eggs and a half a bottle of ketchup. But my parents did everything they could to make sure they were hungry, not me or my brother or sister.
That being said, forcing any business to pay wages they can or can't afford, will not help anybody. It is impossible to know everyone's back ground, so don't just assume that because we disagree with you that we are cold hearted people that think poor people are S.O.L. I don't.
Fair enough and again, sorry for any offense.
Unfortunately, under the current capitalist system, people do get screwed. I hear all the time, "free enterprise is better equipped to make sure everyone is treated fairly". I'm almost 62 years old and I have yet to see that proven. In fact, I've seen the opposite. The poor are far poorer, the rich are much richer. This system, as we practice it, does not see to it that all get a fair shake. Last-12-Exit, I wish we treated our fellow citizens the way your folks treated you and made sure nobody goes hungry. There's no excuse for that- not here in America, just as there's no excuse for anyone here to lack shelter or proper medical care.
When I get service in a restaurant or a motel or any other place of business where I know the people at the bottom are getting paid well below a comfortable wage, I feel badly for them- but I don't patronize them. I treat them as equals or better. I remember what that's like and I only had to live that way for maybe a total of five or six years... and without kids to take care of.
It's not for me to judge whether anyone here is heartless or not. As I see it, my responsibility is to stand up for those who are at a disadvantage, had fewer opportunities or worse luck than I have or have been taken advantage of unfairly. Besides, most of us are only a pay check or two away from being in that boat. Believe me, it's not hard to fall off that ledge.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Unless I'm given reason not to, I figure everyone's (my) equal - income, make of car, jewelry, where they live - really doesn't matter in the end. I'd think no more highly of someone at a lower payscale than I would of one with a big paycheck. I neither demonize nor elevate; it's about character, in the end, to me. I expect the same from others.
Hope for reciprocity, anyway. And if not? Oh well.
I'd guess the majority of us have been in dire straits (money ain't for nothin). Having been there myself, I will never apologize for getting through it, past it and over it, and thriving.
I don't take it for granted; part of my upbringing. Doesn't mean I don't want the same for others.
Jeanwah, I wanted to say also (even re-booted my POS home computer to do so ) that I hope your employment search goes well, is fruitful. Anyone else in a similar position too.
I'm not familiar with your specific work background, but from what I know of you here, your ethics are kickass. That's invaluable and carries over into many industries.
Comments
I know this isn't possible for everyone. But it is for a lot of people. For many food stamp recipients, a minimum wage increase means less food stamps. And we can't have that.
love your post
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Bout time they got smart like that. GOP has been doing for decades with things like Abortion and small government
Maybe they stayed at a Holiday Inn or something...
Like people who think printing is a thing of the past. Have you looked around?
Wonder in a days span how often a person runs into something that is printed....
it's everywhere you go.
suck my bastards, im hanging my clothes in my backyard & im working at god damn wendy's @ $2.99 hourly. see the uniform?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
What about someone attending college or graduate school who is part of a research team that works for free under a paid professor? In this case, a person actually pays to work.
Anyone who has ever been in a band is familiar with the term "pay to play." 99% of us have done exactly this at one time or another with mixed results. Sometimes it's a waste of time and money, sometimes it's simply a great experience, other times it serves to make great connections with other people in the industry which may pay off down the road.
Minimum wage or no minimum wage law, people often work for less than the minimum wage, sometimes for free, and sometimes they even pay to work. Like business owners who have to take risks, spend money, and make investments to prosper in the long run, workers must also spend money on education or time working or learning often times for free or at a loss financially.
Bottom line is $$$ we have to bid everything we get...
quote the job and hope we come in the lowest.
There are few customers now, not like the 90's. who are not bottom dollar.
It cuts into their own bottom dollar their own bread and better and so on.
You have to be good, no margin for mistakes, with great customer service, good product,
at the lowest price. Raise your prices most customers will look elsewhere.
Might not be back.
Drum up more business? ...
in a slow economy everyone cuts back so that is not always a feasible option.
They do less, less often, want to know how they can do it cheaper.
We have watched many a printer close it's doors in the last 20 years,
some very fine business owners at that.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I certainly hope I wouldn't. But will fully expect my 12 yr old daughter to when she turns 16 or 17.
Yep mine too she just turned 16 and she allready landed a minimum wage job in the Mall i'm happy for her ..
:ugeek:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Sorry to hear this Jeanwah i wish you nothing but the best of health and luck in finding a job ...
It's sad how even here some posters feel no pitty at all , they just wan't people to get skilled and find a high paying job as if they are a dime a dz or call the kids who have these jobs , clowns and crap .....
Economics 101.
This is so true of the small business owners.
Whether an employer can only pay minimum wage or whether like us our
employees are skilled labor, small business is like a family. We know our employees children,
celebrate holidays, birthdays, births, mourn together in death.
Years upon years together.
I find it so offense when people try to make employers heartless
when these people no absolutely nothing about the personal situations and relationships
of employers and employees. The times we have had to downsize, say who stays who goes,
was extremely upsetting to the point JB and his partner were physically ill from it.
We thought about each employee going home having to tell their spouse and children.
Wondering how or when they would find work. We did this for those who stayed, we had to.
It is not about a profit haven't had one since the 90's, it is about a wonderful machine
of people working together, sharing their lives. Earning money to support their families.
We are one in this.
I can only hope that the people who are so negative toward employers will find an opportunity
like this. To be apart of a family that cares for them.
in 14 years or more you & your husband have not made one single dollar at the family printing business? you folks are either multimillionaires living off interest, investment & smoking & joking or you are bankrupt & stuff.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Yeah, I'm thinking about my friend Joey who has mild retardation and wants to live independently but isn't qualified to do anything besides busing table for privileged snobs who think that kind of work is beyond them. Next time I see Joey I'll tell him to shape the fuck up.
Or an old buddy O.D.L from central Mexico who came here to escape the endless cycle of poverty and strife and gets what low paying work he can find. Not for himself- but for his family back home where most of his money goes while he sleeps in a barn. I'll be sure to tell him to work on those job skills, the lazy fuck. (Oh, and by the way O., thanks for the healthy broccoli I'm having tonight. Glad I didn't have to pick it... this time.)
And then there's, M. Oh brother! Too bad you got that felony rap for life due to possession of narcotics so many years ago. Yeah, sure, you've always seemed very sincere about regretting that incident way back when and, true, you have made every sacrifice imaginable to get those classes under your belt so you can get that low paying job with the private agency you work for knowing full-well you'll never get to have a decent job like the rest of us, but you should of thought of that back then. Well, what the hell, somebody's got to change the sheets for those cracker barrels. May as well be you. Oh, and you should have been born a man. What a fuck up.
What human trash, huh? Goddamn no good layabouts.
That true, and me being an asshole... no, a hemorrhoid... doesn't help.
I feel strongly about the issue, but apologize for any offense.
I am lucky to be in the middle class. I've earned and worked my way up to this point. I remember what it was like to open up my refrigerator and see nothing but 3 eggs and a half a bottle of ketchup. But my parents did everything they could to make sure they were hungry, not me or my brother or sister.
That being said, forcing any business to pay wages they can or can't afford, will not help anybody. It is impossible to know everyone's back ground, so don't just assume that because we disagree with you that we are cold hearted people that think poor people are S.O.L. I don't.
Fair enough and again, sorry for any offense.
Unfortunately, under the current capitalist system, people do get screwed. I hear all the time, "free enterprise is better equipped to make sure everyone is treated fairly". I'm almost 62 years old and I have yet to see that proven. In fact, I've seen the opposite. The poor are far poorer, the rich are much richer. This system, as we practice it, does not see to it that all get a fair shake. Last-12-Exit, I wish we treated our fellow citizens the way your folks treated you and made sure nobody goes hungry. There's no excuse for that- not here in America, just as there's no excuse for anyone here to lack shelter or proper medical care.
When I get service in a restaurant or a motel or any other place of business where I know the people at the bottom are getting paid well below a comfortable wage, I feel badly for them- but I don't patronize them. I treat them as equals or better. I remember what that's like and I only had to live that way for maybe a total of five or six years... and without kids to take care of.
It's not for me to judge whether anyone here is heartless or not. As I see it, my responsibility is to stand up for those who are at a disadvantage, had fewer opportunities or worse luck than I have or have been taken advantage of unfairly. Besides, most of us are only a pay check or two away from being in that boat. Believe me, it's not hard to fall off that ledge.
Hope for reciprocity, anyway. And if not? Oh well.
I'd guess the majority of us have been in dire straits (money ain't for nothin). Having been there myself, I will never apologize for getting through it, past it and over it, and thriving.
I don't take it for granted; part of my upbringing. Doesn't mean I don't want the same for others.
I'm not familiar with your specific work background, but from what I know of you here, your ethics are kickass. That's invaluable and carries over into many industries.