The only way to stop it is to 'make' different people.
Thanks Pandora, for making sense.
We live in globalized society that devalues life on a daily basis.
There is a massive spiritual schism that has developed in this world,
and so long as people are brought up in a Babylon culture that either directly teaches them, or indirectly leads them to conclude that life has no value -- that it is a one time freak occurrence that expires upon physical death with no rhyme or reason -- so long will we have to deal with the hopeless and depraved actions of those morally bereft folks who are themselves victims of said culture.
Spiritless people will engage in spiritless actions.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,197
Metal detectors would do nothing in this case. This had a locked buzz in security system
he just shot out the glass, came in shooting.Sounds like a video game huh?
Or some movie or Tv show.
Why should we think we can protect everyone and stop this?
Fortresses do not work. Not even in video games.
The only way to stop it is to 'make' different people. Take a look
at who we are, our culture, our acceptance, our failures and work from there.
While these shootings are rare we don't want any, understandably, but the fact is
bad things will happen and from them we find change and we find good.
Please tell the victims parents how rare these shootings have become. I'd rather have metal detectors, to be buzzed in, armed and unarmed security officers than have none of these. I'm not saying everyone will be protected by those methods I mentioned but I think atleast it will make it more difficult for these tragic events to continue to happen no matter how rare you think they might be.
I live in a gated community with round the clock guards at the gate and that allows me to leave my house unlocked and cars unlocked. My point being fortresses at times can cut back on violence and allow for a place for safer living.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
you know what the forensic said as cause of death for the children??
gunshot..
a fuckin bang....and death..pain..blood
Yep. Guns... So this guy may have had some recognised mental or cognitive issues (off his meds, it has been said?) - we don't know - many contradictory things reported in the media, from 'depressed goth' to 'profoundly autistic'.
The point is, allegedly, there were up to 5 different weapons all purchased legally by his mother which whom he lived. Weapons obtained, one assumes, after in depth checks (as we like to be reminded). In depth enough to allow weapons to be stored in a home where a young man with, what has been reported 'severe mental issues' (well.. the mental bit is the excuse that is going around to take the responsibility of the mass killing away from the man who killed all these children).
But it's OK, gun legally in the home of the head of the household. No obligation for these to be stored safely or to have trigger locks or such. Kids take guns from their parents all the time - almost daily occurrences of 'tragic accidents' involving mom or dad's gun. No need to change anything......
Still, if no guns were in the house and therefore easy access, these kids may still be alive.
The only way to stop it is to 'make' different people. Take a look
at who we are, our culture, our acceptance, our failures and work from there.
It's a steep hill, but it needs to be done...
And I'm tired of the silly 2nd Amendment argument. The framers of The Constitution never imagined our modern society.
And a little quote from some good ole southern boys....
Hand guns are made for killin'
Ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me
Metal detectors would do nothing in this case. This had a locked buzz in security system
he just shot out the glass, came in shooting.Sounds like a video game huh?
Or some movie or Tv show.
Why should we think we can protect everyone and stop this?
Fortresses do not work. Not even in video games.
The only way to stop it is to 'make' different people. Take a look
at who we are, our culture, our acceptance, our failures and work from there.
While these shootings are rare we don't want any, understandably, but the fact is
bad things will happen and from them we find change and we find good.
Please tell the victims parents how rare these shootings have become. I'd rather have metal detectors, to be buzzed in, armed and unarmed security officers than have none of these. I'm not saying everyone will be protected by those methods I mentioned but I think atleast it will make it more difficult for these tragic events to continue to happen no matter how rare you think they might be.
I live in a gated community with round the clock guards at the gate and that allows me to leave my house unlocked and cars unlocked. My point being fortresses at times can cut back on violence and allow for a place for safer living.
Peace
of course all measures should be taken for security at schools
I had a conversation with my son about what to do if a shooter enters his school. Never did I think this would be a topic to have with him. I beleive in the 2nd Amendement and own several weapons but I am not blind and we need to talk about what is happening and why. Its one thing to protect yourself in case of a robbery or assualt and its a totally different to cause the harm and take innocent lives. These were children in a kindergarten class. My daughter is in kindergarten and I cant even fathom why would anyone want to harm any child.
Those only keep kids from bringing guns just to show off or to go after 1 target. Please tell me how a metal detector would have stopped this ridiculous tragedy? He shot the glass door to get in, you think he'd see a metal detector and go "oh shit, oh well, guess ill just go home"
What a terrible thing. We have to do something about guns and our love affair with them as a country.
I also hear a lot of talk about mental health, etc. anyone think that our liberal attitude about mental health, that they deserve to live a normal life etc keeps us from protecting kids like the ones in Connecticut from just plain crazy bastards?
And I'm tired of the silly 2nd Amendment argument.
and i'm tired of the "i'm tired of the 2nd amendment argument" argument.
You can't rationalize throwing out fundamental rights based on your own assessment of changing times. That is for due process of constitutional law to sort out.
The founders of our country couldn't have imagined ALL KINDS OF BULLSHIT that has encroached on their vision of our country, INCLUDING MAINTAINING A "CHRISTIAN" MORALITY (i don't use this in some pious bullshit-christian sense ... i mean it in terms of the WORDS of Jesus ... which most of you probably too ignorantly eschew as outdated and needing of tossing out as well) ... the founders would also be rolling in their graves over Standing Armies, a congressionaly surrendered central bank & money supply, endless undeclared wars, a department of education ... ETC ETC ETC.
"The Christian religion, in its purity, is the basis and the source of all genuine freedom in government....I am persuaded that no civil government of a republican form can exist and be durable, in which the principles of Christianity have not a controlling influence."
- James Madison
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports..Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
-George Washington
A patriot without religion in my estimation is as great a paradox as an honest Man without the fear of God. Is it possible that he whom no moral obligations binds, can have any real Good Will towards Men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of Society? ... The Scriptures tell us "righteousness exalteth a Nation."
- Abigail Adams
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
- John Quincy Adams
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
-John Adams
READ THESE QUOTES, FOLKS.
THIS IS WHERE WE WENT WRONG.
Not in the "letter" of scriptiure, but in the SPIRIT of scripture.
And i have not, do not, and will not attend "church". EVER.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The only way to stop it is to 'make' different people. Take a look
at who we are, our culture, our acceptance, our failures and work from there.
It's a steep hill, but it needs to be done...
And I'm tired of the silly 2nd Amendment argument. The framers of The Constitution never imagined our modern society.
And a little quote from some good ole southern boys....
Hand guns are made for killin'
Ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me
I heard words this morning from our generation... 40 50 years ago.
Guns were carried in cars, used for hunting, respected.
No one would even think to use them against a classroom of children
or a mall of people.
You see it is the new breed of killer developed from somethings
we have mentioned here. Not one factor but many, many we have not even touched
on.
Like I said a gun debate is not the answer, this is a people problem,
a culture problem, a bad parenting problem, a missed mental illness problem,
and much more.
The only way to stop it is to 'make' different people.
Thanks Pandora, for making sense.
We live in globalized society that devalues life on a daily basis.
There is a massive spiritual schism that has developed in this world,
and so long as people are brought up in a Babylon culture that either directly teaches them, or indirectly leads them to conclude that life has no value -- that it is a one time freak occurrence that expires upon physical death with no rhyme or reason -- so long will we have to deal with the hopeless and depraved actions of those morally bereft folks who are themselves victims of said culture.
Spiritless people will engage in spiritless actions.
You couldn't be more wrong. What a pathetic argument.
Those only keep kids from bringing guns just to show off or to go after 1 target. Please tell me how a metal detector would have stopped this ridiculous tragedy? He shot the glass door to get in, you think he'd see a metal detector and go "oh shit, oh well, guess ill just go home"
What a terrible thing. We have to do something about guns and our love affair with them as a country.
I also hear a lot of talk about mental health, etc. anyone think that our liberal attitude about mental health, that they deserve to live a normal life etc keeps us from protecting kids like the ones in Connecticut from just plain crazy bastards?
Anyone determined to hurt or kill will find a way to do so. Metal detectors are just ONE small measure to detour those who want to create harm. It will take a series of measures including tighter gun restrictions to help eliminate or cut down on these mass shootings in schools and elsewhere . EVEN then it can STILL not stop this kind of violence....I'd rather try these methods along with more parental supervision and love than to try nothing at all....leave things as they are and suffer through shootings like this one, NO.
We all know in the near future they will be a shooting that will sadly TOP this one.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
And I'm tired of the silly 2nd Amendment argument.
and i'm tired of the "i'm tired of the 2nd amendment argument" argument.
You can't rationalize throwing out fundamental rights based on your own assessment of changing times. That is for due process of constitutional law to sort out.
The founders of our country couldn't have imagined ALL KINDS OF BULLSHIT that has encroached on their vision of our country, INCLUDING MAINTAINING A "CHRISTIAN" MORALITY (i don't use this in some pious bullshit-christian sense ... i mean it in terms of the WORDS of Jesus ... which most of you probably too ignorantly eschew as outdated and needing of tossing out as well) ... the founders would also be rolling in their graves over Standing Armies, a congressionaly surrendered central bank & money supply, endless undeclared wars, a department of education ... ETC ETC ETC.
"The Christian religion, in its purity, is the basis and the source of all genuine freedom in government....I am persuaded that no civil government of a republican form can exist and be durable, in which the principles of Christianity have not a controlling influence."
- James Madison
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports..Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
-George Washington
A patriot without religion in my estimation is as great a paradox as an honest Man without the fear of God. Is it possible that he whom no moral obligations binds, can have any real Good Will towards Men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of Society? ... The Scriptures tell us "righteousness exalteth a Nation."
- Abigail Adams
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
- John Quincy Adams
READ THESE QUOTES, FOLKS.
THIS IS WHERE WE WENT WRONG.
Not in the "letter" of scriptiure, but in the SPIRIT of scripture.
And i have not, do not, and will not attend "church". EVER.
Oh, if only everyone followed the Words of Jesus.
I have no fear of God or death. I possess no guns and have no plans to shoot any children. Maybe I'm the exception. I have no problem with anyone having some guns. But to argue that guns made no difference is ridiculous. Do you really think we need to protect ourselves from the government? I know many soldiers, I think they would refuse any orders to attack civilians. Maybe I'm wrong. If you want to have some rifles to hunt, cool. Even in that since the only reason to have one is to kill.
And on an aside, would everyone be as outraged if the was a retirement home shooting? Is it worse that it was children? Is their life more valuable than the elderly?
The only way to stop it is to 'make' different people.
Thanks Pandora, for making sense.
We live in globalized society that devalues life on a daily basis.
There is a massive spiritual schism that has developed in this world,
and so long as people are brought up in a Babylon culture that either directly teaches them, or indirectly leads them to conclude that life has no value -- that it is a one time freak occurrence that expires upon physical death with no rhyme or reason -- so long will we have to deal with the hopeless and depraved actions of those morally bereft folks who are themselves victims of said culture.
Spiritless people will engage in spiritless actions.
No one can debate these statements, this is the answer to our fix,
a message that should be taken each time we lose...
the innocent are sacrificed for what we seek.
The only way to stop it is to 'make' different people.
Thanks Pandora, for making sense.
We live in globalized society that devalues life on a daily basis.
There is a massive spiritual schism that has developed in this world,
and so long as people are brought up in a Babylon culture that either directly teaches them, or indirectly leads them to conclude that life has no value -- that it is a one time freak occurrence that expires upon physical death with no rhyme or reason -- so long will we have to deal with the hopeless and depraved actions of those morally bereft folks who are themselves victims of said culture.
Spiritless people will engage in spiritless actions.
You couldn't be more wrong. What a pathetic argument.
I'm sorry?
Your statement is pathetically lacking in any substance.
Yet another personal insult - one liner -- hurled by someone with seemingly little understanding or patience to pursue any sort of informed debate.
I'm not even sure what you find so pathetic about this "argument".
Why??? BECAUSE YOU WERE TOO MUCH OF A LAZY ASSHOLE TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF.
You just wanted to pop one off to feel important, i guess.
[KAT YOU BETTER STEP IN SOON, OR ITS ABOUT TO GET REAL FUCKING UGLY]
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
And I'm tired of the silly 2nd Amendment argument.
and i'm tired of the "i'm tired of the 2nd amendment argument" argument.
You can't rationalize throwing out fundamental rights based on your own assessment of changing times. That is for due process of constitutional law to sort out.
The founders of our country couldn't have imagined ALL KINDS OF BULLSHIT that has encroached on their vision of our country, INCLUDING MAINTAINING A "CHRISTIAN" MORALITY (i don't use this in some pious bullshit-christian sense ... i mean it in terms of the WORDS of Jesus ... which most of you probably too ignorantly eschew as outdated and needing of tossing out as well) ... the founders would also be rolling in their graves over Standing Armies, a congressionaly surrendered central bank & money supply, endless undeclared wars, a department of education ... ETC ETC ETC.
"The Christian religion, in its purity, is the basis and the source of all genuine freedom in government....I am persuaded that no civil government of a republican form can exist and be durable, in which the principles of Christianity have not a controlling influence."
- James Madison
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports..Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
-George Washington
A patriot without religion in my estimation is as great a paradox as an honest Man without the fear of God. Is it possible that he whom no moral obligations binds, can have any real Good Will towards Men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of Society? ... The Scriptures tell us "righteousness exalteth a Nation."
- Abigail Adams
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
- John Quincy Adams
READ THESE QUOTES, FOLKS.
THIS IS WHERE WE WENT WRONG.
Not in the "letter" of scriptiure, but in the SPIRIT of scripture.
And i have not, do not, and will not attend "church". EVER.
Oh, if only everyone followed the Words of Jesus.
I have no fear of God or death. I possess no guns and have no plans to shoot any children. Maybe I'm the exception. I have no problem with anyone having some guns. But to argue that guns made no difference is ridiculous. Do you really think we need to protect ourselves from the government? I know many soldiers, I think they would refuse any orders to attack civilians. Maybe I'm wrong. If you want to have some rifles to hunt, cool. Even in that since the only reason to have one is to kill.
And on an aside, would everyone be as outraged if the was a retirement home shooting? Is it worse that it was children? Is their life more valuable than the elderly?
No life is more valuable than anothers. All these nutjobs always attack the the easy targets. They are cowards and instead of facing their fears and failures they take it out on the innocent.
I think a big part of the issue is parenting. A lot of kid are left to their own devices- where parents are not around- wheather it's because of work, social obligations, or just not caring.
My husband and I made a conscious decision that when we had kids, one of us would be home with them all the time. It's been a very hard decision- in that it would help to have both of us working- but we decideded to become parents- we took responsibility for that decision and, I feel, we have an obligation for our kids to become great adults. The mentality I see today is that parents don't want their kids to be angry at them or just want to be their friends. We have to be parents first, and then friends later in life- if possible.
That's how I grew up, but not a lot of others have.
We have to change how/ what our children see/hear- and maybe it will get better. I can only hope
People need to not take out the emotions they are feeling on other posters here.
I'd like to know why it's going to get ugly? Tough to argue for guns when there are 20 dead elementary children. Maybe shouting makes you feel better about your position.
As reports are flying around- was he really mentally ill? Or is that just an excuse we can give to wrap our minds around this tragedy. Oh, he's mentally I'll, So I'll give him a pass.
I'm sorry Pandora, but he could be just plain evil- and him AND a gun killed those people.
There was a report that his brother told police that the shooter is autistic and has a personality disorder. It's yet to be confirmed if he does in fact have a mental health diagnosis, and if so what the diagnosis is and what role it may have played in this crime. There's already so much stigma associated with autism, I'm afraid to see what else this stirs up. The personality disorder would probably have a lot more to do with a crime like this (probably a narcissistic or antisocial personality or paranoid personality disorder or a combination), perhaps compounded by an inability to empathize. Personality disorders are very chronic and can't be cured with medication. They aren't psychotic in nature. People don't have a break with reality. They know exactly what they're doing, but they just don't care. I've heard a lot of misinformation in the media already about the nature of these disorders and what should have been done. Insurance companies don't like to pay for AXIS II disorders and usually don't because they're so chronic in nature.
And I agree - a combination of those personality disorders would equate to pure evil.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
little children were killed.. a whole classroom... the argument for more guns is a foolish, sad, cruel and evil argument. anti-gun is the way of the future.. how can we let this type of thing keep happening????? It's pure madness.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Here's a like provided by my friend on FB about a school shooting she was in 20 years ago. The article was written by the father of one of the victims.
why is it about to get real fucking ugly up in here? please calm down. we need respect & love one another not arguing back and forth.
back on track...
lastnight i could not sleep fully sound. the first couple 2 or 3 hrs of sleep was nice but then once i woke to pee i could not get back into a deep sleep. for hrs i had racing thoughts on children being shot/murdered at the school and how the children with be haunting the school.
in fact these visions were so clear & terribly sad that i had tears & my sad thoughts & vision prevented me from sleeping so i lied there in the dark for what seemed like hrs. it was a very spiritualy draining rest.
i am looking forward to a walk through the park on this rainy saturday
little children were killed.. a whole classroom... the argument for more guns is a foolish, sad, cruel and evil argument. anti-gun is the way of the future.. how can we let this type of thing keep happening????? It's pure madness.
Everyone should be outraged and sad. But this would have happened with or without guns. Earlier this week a man in China walked into a school and stabbed 22 children. The world is going mad.
As reports are flying around- was he really mentally ill? Or is that just an excuse we can give to wrap our minds around this tragedy. Oh, he's mentally I'll, So I'll give him a pass.
I'm sorry Pandora, but he could be just plain evil- and him AND a gun killed those people.
There was a report that his brother told police that the shooter is autistic and has a personality disorder. It's yet to be confirmed if he does in fact have a mental health diagnosis, and if so what the diagnosis is and what role it may have played in this crime. There's already so much stigma associated with autism, I'm afraid to see what else this stirs up. The personality disorder would probably have a lot more to do with a crime like this (probably a narcissistic or antisocial personality or paranoid personality disorder or a combination), perhaps compounded by an inability to empathize. Personality disorders are very chronic and can't be cured with medication. They aren't psychotic in nature. People don't have a break with reality. They know exactly what they're doing, but they just don't care. I've heard a lot of misinformation in the media already about the nature of these disorders and what should have been done. Insurance companies don't like to pay for AXIS II disorders and usually don't because they're so chronic in nature.
And I agree - a combination of those personality disorders would equate to pure evil.
This is a very good point, comebackgirl. It might be useful to look at what causes people to have these serious personality disorders. My guess it would have something to do with population crowding (a lot of research is out there on this), toxicity (decades of industrialism has put a lot of that in our food and environment), our culture's love of guns and the proliferation of violence in our media (tv, movies, etc.).
And I totally agree with your concerns for increasing the stigma of autism. Some very wonderful autistic people- Temple Grandin for example- have done wonderful things to make our world better.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
little children were killed.. a whole classroom... the argument for more guns is a foolish, sad, cruel and evil argument. anti-gun is the way of the future.. how can we let this type of thing keep happening????? It's pure madness.
Everyone should be outraged and sad. But this would have happened with or without guns. Earlier this week a man in China walked into a school and stabbed 22 children. The world is going mad.
Nutters/Evil - everywhere
USA - 20 children dead + 7 adults. 27 families grieving an irreplaceable loss
China - 22 children wounded - less than a dozen in hospital. 22 (or so) families scared shitless, traumatised but able to hug and kiss their kid.
little children were killed.. a whole classroom... the argument for more guns is a foolish, sad, cruel and evil argument. anti-gun is the way of the future.. how can we let this type of thing keep happening????? It's pure madness.
Everyone should be outraged and sad. But this would have happened with or without guns. Earlier this week a man in China walked into a school and stabbed 22 children. The world is going mad.
but yes it's tragic also but NONE OF THEM DIED FROM THAT ATTACK... with guns no one stands a chance... their is a difference. you can do more damage with guns obviously.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
little children were killed.. a whole classroom... the argument for more guns is a foolish, sad, cruel and evil argument. anti-gun is the way of the future.. how can we let this type of thing keep happening????? It's pure madness.
Everyone should be outraged and sad. But this would have happened with or without guns. Earlier this week a man in China walked into a school and stabbed 22 children. The world is going mad.
how do you know that this would have happen. those 22 kids all lived. these kids did not. at what point do we say "you know what massing killings might still happen if we put more restriction on gun ownership, but you know what lets try it anyway cause this way is not working either"
Here's a like provided by my friend on FB about a school shooting she was in 20 years ago. The article was written by the father of one of the victims.
Good article, vduboise. It contains a succinct and obvious reason these things happen:
"More horrible still — to me at least — is the inevitable lament, “How could we have let this happen?”
It is a horrible question because the answer is so simple. Make it easy for people to get guns and things like this will happen. "
(And please people, don't tag me with that "lib", "leftie" crap. This has nothing to do with labels.)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Comments
Thanks Pandora, for making sense.
We live in globalized society that devalues life on a daily basis.
There is a massive spiritual schism that has developed in this world,
and so long as people are brought up in a Babylon culture that either directly teaches them, or indirectly leads them to conclude that life has no value -- that it is a one time freak occurrence that expires upon physical death with no rhyme or reason -- so long will we have to deal with the hopeless and depraved actions of those morally bereft folks who are themselves victims of said culture.
Spiritless people will engage in spiritless actions.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Please tell the victims parents how rare these shootings have become. I'd rather have metal detectors, to be buzzed in, armed and unarmed security officers than have none of these. I'm not saying everyone will be protected by those methods I mentioned but I think atleast it will make it more difficult for these tragic events to continue to happen no matter how rare you think they might be.
I live in a gated community with round the clock guards at the gate and that allows me to leave my house unlocked and cars unlocked. My point being fortresses at times can cut back on violence and allow for a place for safer living.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Yep. Guns... So this guy may have had some recognised mental or cognitive issues (off his meds, it has been said?) - we don't know - many contradictory things reported in the media, from 'depressed goth' to 'profoundly autistic'.
The point is, allegedly, there were up to 5 different weapons all purchased legally by his mother which whom he lived. Weapons obtained, one assumes, after in depth checks (as we like to be reminded). In depth enough to allow weapons to be stored in a home where a young man with, what has been reported 'severe mental issues' (well.. the mental bit is the excuse that is going around to take the responsibility of the mass killing away from the man who killed all these children).
But it's OK, gun legally in the home of the head of the household. No obligation for these to be stored safely or to have trigger locks or such. Kids take guns from their parents all the time - almost daily occurrences of 'tragic accidents' involving mom or dad's gun. No need to change anything......
Still, if no guns were in the house and therefore easy access, these kids may still be alive.
And I'm tired of the silly 2nd Amendment argument. The framers of The Constitution never imagined our modern society.
And a little quote from some good ole southern boys....
Hand guns are made for killin'
Ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me
Those only keep kids from bringing guns just to show off or to go after 1 target. Please tell me how a metal detector would have stopped this ridiculous tragedy? He shot the glass door to get in, you think he'd see a metal detector and go "oh shit, oh well, guess ill just go home"
What a terrible thing. We have to do something about guns and our love affair with them as a country.
I also hear a lot of talk about mental health, etc. anyone think that our liberal attitude about mental health, that they deserve to live a normal life etc keeps us from protecting kids like the ones in Connecticut from just plain crazy bastards?
and i'm tired of the "i'm tired of the 2nd amendment argument" argument.
You can't rationalize throwing out fundamental rights based on your own assessment of changing times. That is for due process of constitutional law to sort out.
The founders of our country couldn't have imagined ALL KINDS OF BULLSHIT that has encroached on their vision of our country, INCLUDING MAINTAINING A "CHRISTIAN" MORALITY (i don't use this in some pious bullshit-christian sense ... i mean it in terms of the WORDS of Jesus ... which most of you probably too ignorantly eschew as outdated and needing of tossing out as well) ... the founders would also be rolling in their graves over Standing Armies, a congressionaly surrendered central bank & money supply, endless undeclared wars, a department of education ... ETC ETC ETC.
"The Christian religion, in its purity, is the basis and the source of all genuine freedom in government....I am persuaded that no civil government of a republican form can exist and be durable, in which the principles of Christianity have not a controlling influence."
- James Madison
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports..Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
-George Washington
A patriot without religion in my estimation is as great a paradox as an honest Man without the fear of God. Is it possible that he whom no moral obligations binds, can have any real Good Will towards Men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of Society? ... The Scriptures tell us "righteousness exalteth a Nation."
- Abigail Adams
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
- John Quincy Adams
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
-John Adams
READ THESE QUOTES, FOLKS.
THIS IS WHERE WE WENT WRONG.
Not in the "letter" of scriptiure, but in the SPIRIT of scripture.
And i have not, do not, and will not attend "church". EVER.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Guns were carried in cars, used for hunting, respected.
No one would even think to use them against a classroom of children
or a mall of people.
You see it is the new breed of killer developed from somethings
we have mentioned here. Not one factor but many, many we have not even touched
on.
Like I said a gun debate is not the answer, this is a people problem,
a culture problem, a bad parenting problem, a missed mental illness problem,
and much more.
You couldn't be more wrong. What a pathetic argument.
http://za.news.yahoo.com/man-stabs-22-c ... 39444.html
Anyone determined to hurt or kill will find a way to do so. Metal detectors are just ONE small measure to detour those who want to create harm. It will take a series of measures including tighter gun restrictions to help eliminate or cut down on these mass shootings in schools and elsewhere . EVEN then it can STILL not stop this kind of violence....I'd rather try these methods along with more parental supervision and love than to try nothing at all....leave things as they are and suffer through shootings like this one, NO.
We all know in the near future they will be a shooting that will sadly TOP this one.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I have no fear of God or death. I possess no guns and have no plans to shoot any children. Maybe I'm the exception. I have no problem with anyone having some guns. But to argue that guns made no difference is ridiculous. Do you really think we need to protect ourselves from the government? I know many soldiers, I think they would refuse any orders to attack civilians. Maybe I'm wrong. If you want to have some rifles to hunt, cool. Even in that since the only reason to have one is to kill.
And on an aside, would everyone be as outraged if the was a retirement home shooting? Is it worse that it was children? Is their life more valuable than the elderly?
a message that should be taken each time we lose...
the innocent are sacrificed for what we seek.
I'm sorry?
Your statement is pathetically lacking in any substance.
Yet another personal insult - one liner -- hurled by someone with seemingly little understanding or patience to pursue any sort of informed debate.
I'm not even sure what you find so pathetic about this "argument".
Why??? BECAUSE YOU WERE TOO MUCH OF A LAZY ASSHOLE TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF.
You just wanted to pop one off to feel important, i guess.
[KAT YOU BETTER STEP IN SOON, OR ITS ABOUT TO GET REAL FUCKING UGLY]
If I opened it now would you not understand?
No life is more valuable than anothers. All these nutjobs always attack the the easy targets. They are cowards and instead of facing their fears and failures they take it out on the innocent.
My husband and I made a conscious decision that when we had kids, one of us would be home with them all the time. It's been a very hard decision- in that it would help to have both of us working- but we decideded to become parents- we took responsibility for that decision and, I feel, we have an obligation for our kids to become great adults. The mentality I see today is that parents don't want their kids to be angry at them or just want to be their friends. We have to be parents first, and then friends later in life- if possible.
That's how I grew up, but not a lot of others have.
We have to change how/ what our children see/hear- and maybe it will get better. I can only hope
I'd like to know why it's going to get ugly? Tough to argue for guns when there are 20 dead elementary children. Maybe shouting makes you feel better about your position.
And I agree - a combination of those personality disorders would equate to pure evil.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/opini ... .html?_r=0
back on track...
lastnight i could not sleep fully sound. the first couple 2 or 3 hrs of sleep was nice but then once i woke to pee i could not get back into a deep sleep. for hrs i had racing thoughts on children being shot/murdered at the school and how the children with be haunting the school.
in fact these visions were so clear & terribly sad that i had tears & my sad thoughts & vision prevented me from sleeping so i lied there in the dark for what seemed like hrs. it was a very spiritualy draining rest.
i am looking forward to a walk through the park on this rainy saturday
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Everyone should be outraged and sad. But this would have happened with or without guns. Earlier this week a man in China walked into a school and stabbed 22 children. The world is going mad.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
This is a very good point, comebackgirl. It might be useful to look at what causes people to have these serious personality disorders. My guess it would have something to do with population crowding (a lot of research is out there on this), toxicity (decades of industrialism has put a lot of that in our food and environment), our culture's love of guns and the proliferation of violence in our media (tv, movies, etc.).
And I totally agree with your concerns for increasing the stigma of autism. Some very wonderful autistic people- Temple Grandin for example- have done wonderful things to make our world better.
Nutters/Evil - everywhere
USA - 20 children dead + 7 adults. 27 families grieving an irreplaceable loss
China - 22 children wounded - less than a dozen in hospital. 22 (or so) families scared shitless, traumatised but able to hug and kiss their kid.
Difference. Wonder why?
But yes, the world is going mad.
but yes it's tragic also but NONE OF THEM DIED FROM THAT ATTACK... with guns no one stands a chance... their is a difference. you can do more damage with guns obviously.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
how do you know that this would have happen. those 22 kids all lived. these kids did not. at what point do we say "you know what massing killings might still happen if we put more restriction on gun ownership, but you know what lets try it anyway cause this way is not working either"
Good article, vduboise. It contains a succinct and obvious reason these things happen:
"More horrible still — to me at least — is the inevitable lament, “How could we have let this happen?”
It is a horrible question because the answer is so simple. Make it easy for people to get guns and things like this will happen. "
(And please people, don't tag me with that "lib", "leftie" crap. This has nothing to do with labels.)