The average CPS teacher, who has about 14 years of experience, gets a total compensation equal to about $74,798/year or $34.50/hour. The average percentage of CPS students who meet or exceed state standards is 66%. The percentage of CPS 11th graders who meet college readiness benchmarks is 21% in Reading, 19% in Math, 11% in Science and 38% in English.
The average Chicagoan works a comparable schedule to a CPS teacher, yet earns half as much in total compensation, 33 fewer days off, higher health care costs for lower quality health benefits and either a 401(k) that they contribute heavily into or no retirement package at all.
Thus, under the current union contract, taxpayers are paying teachers double their own salaries in exchange for student achievement that leaves about 80% of graduating CPS high school students below college readiness standards.
just wondering, where did you get these facts?
Been googling all morning long.
If any of my info is incorrect, feel free to correct me.
I have no problem admitting when I am wrong.
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
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Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
I want to address a couple of things based on my understanding of this particular strike. First, the teachers are asking for more money because the school district is wanting to extend the school day and, I believe, increase the number of days in the entire school year which I believe is a legitimate thing to ask for - most of us would want our salaries increased if our working hours were increased. However, I do believe that they did negotiate a 16% increase over 2 years which would amount to the 30% number that has been quoted. That seems more than fair to me so that is part of the contract that should have been accepted by the teachers union.
A lot of people in the private sector don’t ask for more money if their boss tells them to work overtime. They do it to keep their job. It sucks, but it’s a fact of life – especially in this economy. In fact, a lot of folks in the private sector would gladly take a pay cut if necessary, rather than lose their jobs - if the company needed to cut costs. Like a hurting business, our gov't is broke. Why public employees should be immune to the fact that the government is broke, our economy sucks and our student achievement (their goal) is terrible?
But, on your point EXACTLY how many in terms of days/hours “additional” are they being asked to work? 16% more? 30% more? What is it?
Second, when teachers mention job security they aren't really talking about (well most don't but I am sure some do mean this) keeping their job regardless of job performance. In many instances, without "job security", teachers have been fired or demoted, becuase of petty office politics which is not the same.
That happens everywhere. Why exactly should teachers be immune? This sounds an awful lot like rationalizing.
Third, teachers may have the MOST responsbility for ensuring that their students are successful but they are NOT the only factor, therefore, why should teacher evaulations, hence teacher pay, totally reside upon the efforts of the teacher? What about parental support? What about student effort? You're going to base teacher pay on ONE test? What if the kid doesn't like the teacher and deliberately blows the test to "get back at them"? What if the kid is having a bad day and can't focus and concentrate during the test? There are too many factors involved to have teacher pay completely dependent on student test scores. And if we're being honest, no, your pay is not dependent upon the efforts of someone else to determine your pay. If you work retail, would it be fair to have your entire pay determined by your customers? I do believe that student test scores and student success should play a PART in the evaluation and pay process. And those teachers that are opposed to it completely are fighting a losing battle. The extension of the school day and longer school years are coming and are completely necessary for our country to remain competitive in the global economy.
Everyone knows they aren’t the only factor. BUT, and a key but, the child and the parent aren’t being paid public money. The teacher is. We can dance around the fact that the teacher has a job to do all day, but they do. And they are being paid quite well – it says in Chicago over 70K on average. That, to me, is absolutely ridiculous. It’s fucking higher than many college professors, which is quite ridiculous.
Getting back to your example though. On retail, what if a retail worker is paid partially or fully on commission and the customer is having a bad day and doesn’t purchase the product? Or what happens if the customer doesn't like the sales person and doesn’t buy a shirt because of it? It's kinda ridiculous to use those examples. That stuff happens.
How about a real conversation and a real debate about how to fix education that truly includes teachers, parents and students in the decision making process? Why should teachers spend their time blaming the parents and kids and the parents blaming the teachers. This just obscures the real problem and therefore prevents any real solution to the problem.
Why not have a real conversation and real debate about how to fix education that truly includes teachers, parents and students? Because it won’t solve anything - debates rarely solve anything. People can debate societal issues all day long and pretend like they can control our society. The way to alter society is to try to do something individually in our daily lives. That's pretty much it.
Raising Chicago’s teachers pay will “solve” nothing; in fact one can argue, as 90% of those in this thread are, it will make matters worse.
It has to be difficult for a parent, to sympathize with a group of educaters, making an average of $71,000 a year. The median income of these parents is about $45-$50,000 a year. These parents work 8-10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, 12 months a year. Most DO NOT have the luxury of a pension. Most do not get the summer off. Most do NOT get 10 days sick pay, 10 days vacation, 1 week off for Christmas, 1 week off for Spring break.
What do these parents get?
They get to be held hostage by a bunch of teachers. Teachers who at one point asked for a 30% hike in pay.
Teachers who are bitching about having to work 8 hours a day. Teachers who are bitching about the fact that they may be evaluated, and held responsible. Teachers bitching about air conditioners.
And I am positive 99% of these parents scratch their fucking heads, when they read the overall test scores of these children.
I would apply if I were you.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
Its really unfair to blame the teachers...they are pawns (lemmings) doing what union leadership tells them. Sure they took a strike vote, probably most never thought a strike would happen (haven't had teachers strike in Chicago in 25 years).
How do the Chicago charter school works? people who wish to put kids in charter school given a certificate and then off the kid goes? Is this an option? Its really early in the school year so why not send your kids to a charter school?
Why do people get upset when they see the wages/benefits/perks that teachers get...really $70 000 doesn't strike me as an absurd salary.
I work in the support staff of a school board and our teachers are some very well compensated teachers. I also get to see their dedication to kids. Most not all do way more than they have to.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Its really unfair to blame the teachers...they are pawns (lemmings) doing what union leadership tells them. Sure they took a strike vote, probably most never thought a strike would happen (haven't had teachers strike in Chicago in 25 years).
How do the Chicago charter school works? people who wish to put kids in charter school given a certificate and then off the kid goes? Is this an option? Its really early in the school year so why not send your kids to a charter school?
Why do people get upset when they see the wages/benefits/perks that teachers get...really $70 000 doesn't strike me as an absurd salary.
I work in the support staff of a school board and our teachers are some very well compensated teachers. I also get to see their dedication to kids. Most not all do way more than they have to.
They shouldn't be making over $70,000 a year on average before benefits (retirement/pension) and have off in the summer. Once again, it's higher than many college professors make.That's ridiculous.
That's not to say teachers aren't good people. I know 99% are. The truth is though - they shouldnt be getting into teaching if they want to make a lot of money or have off in the summer or have a great pension or all of the above. That's not the way it should be at least in this economy. It should be they want to give back. You like to educate. You get something out of it. Sure, getting paid for it, and reasonably well... is a perk. But, $70K plus... is too high in my mind - especially with their shit results. And fighting for more is just not right.
Our government is broke. They need to back off ....
...like everyone else is. If we had no debt, I wouldn't complain about the teacher's salaries. We are broke. They are public employees.
Its really unfair to blame the teachers...they are pawns (lemmings) doing what union leadership tells them. Sure they took a strike vote, probably most never thought a strike would happen (haven't had teachers strike in Chicago in 25 years).
How do the Chicago charter school works? people who wish to put kids in charter school given a certificate and then off the kid goes? Is this an option? Its really early in the school year so why not send your kids to a charter school?
Why do people get upset when they see the wages/benefits/perks that teachers get...really $70 000 doesn't strike me as an absurd salary.
I work in the support staff of a school board and our teachers are some very well compensated teachers. I also get to see their dedication to kids. Most not all do way more than they have to.
They shouldn't be making over $70,000 a year on average before benefits (retirement/pension) and have off in the summer. Once again, it's higher than many college professors make.That's ridiculous.
That's not to say teachers aren't good people. I know 99% are. The truth is though - they shouldnt be getting into teaching if they want to make a lot of money or have off in the summer or have a great pension or all of the above. That's not the way it should be at least in this economy. It should be they want to give back. You like to educate. You get something out of it. Sure, getting paid for it, and reasonably well... is a perk. But, $70K plus... is too high in my mind - especially with their shit results. And fighting for more is just not right.
Our government is broke. They need to back off ....
...like everyone else is. If we had no debt, I wouldn't complain about the teacher's salaries. We are broke. They are public employees.
They aren't the reason your government is broke or any government is broke. I do not begrudge teachers because they have good pay/benefits/perks...as a matter of fact we all should strive to acheive their standard of living. But instead people bitch and moan that a teachers makes a good salary etc...when so many have become slaves to the corporate machine who would rather outsource jobs and make incredible profits than make sure they have a good standard of living.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Its really unfair to blame the teachers...they are pawns (lemmings) doing what union leadership tells them. Sure they took a strike vote, probably most never thought a strike would happen (haven't had teachers strike in Chicago in 25 years).
How do the Chicago charter school works? people who wish to put kids in charter school given a certificate and then off the kid goes? Is this an option? Its really early in the school year so why not send your kids to a charter school?
Why do people get upset when they see the wages/benefits/perks that teachers get...really $70 000 doesn't strike me as an absurd salary.
I work in the support staff of a school board and our teachers are some very well compensated teachers. I also get to see their dedication to kids. Most not all do way more than they have to.
They shouldn't be making over $70,000 a year on average before benefits (retirement/pension) and have off in the summer. Once again, it's higher than many college professors make.That's ridiculous.
That's not to say teachers aren't good people. I know 99% are. The truth is though - they shouldnt be getting into teaching if they want to make a lot of money or have off in the summer or have a great pension or all of the above. That's not the way it should be at least in this economy. It should be they want to give back. You like to educate. You get something out of it. Sure, getting paid for it, and reasonably well... is a perk. But, $70K plus... is too high in my mind - especially with their shit results. And fighting for more is just not right.
Our government is broke. They need to back off ....
...like everyone else is. If we had no debt, I wouldn't complain about the teacher's salaries. We are broke. They are public employees.
They aren't the reason your government is broke or any government is broke. I do not begrudge teachers because they have good pay/benefits/perks...as a matter of fact we all should strive to acheive their standard of living. But instead people bitch and moan that a teachers makes a good salary etc...when so many have become slaves to the corporate machine who would rather outsource jobs and make incredible profits than make sure they have a good standard of living.
Thank you, couldn't have said it any better myself.
The teachers unions were necessary in the beginning. But they are doing nothing but enabling the impossibility of education reform at this point, while ensuring that teachers get their perks. It's totally backwards, and we shouldn't be blaming teachers OR parents. The real fight is the teachers unions. Shut them down.
The teachers unions were necessary in the beginning. But they are doing nothing but enabling the impossibility of education reform at this point, while ensuring that teachers get their perks. It's totally backwards, and we shouldn't be blaming teachers OR parents. The real fight is the teachers unions. Shut them down.
They aren't the reason your government is broke or any government is broke. I do not begrudge teachers because they have good pay/benefits/perks...as a matter of fact we all should strive to acheive their standard of living. But instead people bitch and moan that a teachers makes a good salary etc...when so many have become slaves to the corporate machine who would rather outsource jobs and make incredible profits than make sure they have a good standard of living.
What is the reason our government is broke? Seriously, I'm curious of your answer.
Because I think the true answer basically refutes every other point you made. The government is broke primarily because of special interests. But, it boils down to government spending more than they have. Thos who support government spending in general live in a fantasy land, like the one you painted, where gov't has the power to increase standards of living countrywide by spending money that it's taking from it's citizens to begin with (or printing and devaluing it's currency). The logic - just give group A this (at X cost), give group B that (at Y cost), give group C (at Z cost) this, etc. and take it from group M, country N and bank A - that will make people "better off". :fp: In the short run, that may "seem" to work - government will take loans and pay it out, economy may look better briefly until the debt is owed. But, in the long run, we end up here - with a large cost to the former action. Prolonged government spending above their means is exactly like prolonged corporate or personal spending above one's means. It seems great until the shit hits the fan. Government spending as the per-eminent source of a good standard of living is asinine. The entity that will grow the economy is a growth in resources or technology. That's it. Increasing welfare programs, redistribution or gov't pay doesn't do squat in the long run.... other than debt and depressions - it constrains growth. Economic growth will cause the government to have more money to work with. That's what is needed.
Like I said, teachers making great money is fantastic if:
1) It's warranted
2) It's not an economic mess
3) The government is not broke
Coming from a teacher, asking for a 30% raise over 2 years is ridiculous. My wife is in her 9th year of teaching and I'm in my second. Combined we make right at $80,000/year. Sure, the cost of living is lower here, but it's not that much lower. Oh, and we're not union members.
So in Florida you do not have to join the teacher's union? Do you happen to know if this is true in any other states?
It is optional. We get the same pay and benefits, but don't have to pay dues. The only thing we don't get is union representation if a lawsuit is brought against us. Instead of union representation, the school district will back you as long as you aren't perceived by them to be the at fault party. I don't know for sure about all of the states, but most southern states don't have mandatory unions. My wife has taught in Virginia, North Carolina and Florida and has never been a union member.
As a Chicago Public School Teacher, I feel the need to say something based solely on the amount of misinformation and ugly comments that I see here.
I make a decent wage, but as an early childhood special education teacher, I earn every penny that I make. Every teacher I know is willing to take the small raise that CPS is offering, even though they took away our contractually obligated raise last year. I'm not looking for more money, even though I spend a ridiculous amount of my salary on supplies, including basics such as kleenex. I recently received another endorsement, that will not make me anymore money, on my own dime. I am now required to be in my buidling an extra hour each day for free (add that to the hour before and hour after I already spend there). It is NOT ABOUT RAISES! It is about working and learning conditions.
Just to be clear:
We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired. I personally average one day a year because I know how detrimental it is for me to not be there. Any other time off is UNPAID.
Every K-8 classroom in my school has 35-40 children in it. This is in an economically depressed area, with 99% poverty rate. The children spend an average of 18-25 days per school year taking standardized tests. Track E students started school in 90-plus degree weather, with no air conditioning. Don't even get me started on special education law and reform...
Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think it is ridiculous to make comments on situation that many people seem to have little first hand knowledge of. I want to work. I love teaching and I am a great teacher. I do not want to strike, but I will do what it takes to ensure that my students receive everything that they need to be successful, including safe schools, appropriate staff (clinicians, paraprofessionals, etc), and appropriate materials.
Also, FYI charter schools do not require their teachers to be certified. If teaching is so easy and pays so well, some of you should submit your resumes!
6-29-98 Chicago---10-9-00 Chicago---4-23-03 Champaign---6-18-03 Chicago---5-16-06 Chicago---8-5-07 Chicago---8-22-08 Chicago (EV)---
8-23-09 Chicago---8-24-09 Chicago---6-28-11 Chicago (EV)---9-3-11 Alpine---9-4-11 Alpine
We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired.
Do you not consider the entire summer part of your vacation?
As a Chicago Public School Teacher, I feel the need to say something based solely on the amount of misinformation and ugly comments that I see here.
I make a decent wage, but as an early childhood special education teacher, I earn every penny that I make. Every teacher I know is willing to take the small raise that CPS is offering, even though they took away our contractually obligated raise last year. I'm not looking for more money, even though I spend a ridiculous amount of my salary on supplies, including basics such as kleenex. I recently received another endorsement, that will not make me anymore money, on my own dime. I am now required to be in my buidling an extra hour each day for free (add that to the hour before and hour after I already spend there). It is NOT ABOUT RAISES! It is about working and learning conditions.
Just to be clear:
We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired. I personally average one day a year because I know how detrimental it is for me to not be there. Any other time off is UNPAID.
Every K-8 classroom in my school has 35-40 children in it. This is in an economically depressed area, with 99% poverty rate. The children spend an average of 18-25 days per school year taking standardized tests. Track E students started school in 90-plus degree weather, with no air conditioning. Don't even get me started on special education law and reform...
Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think it is ridiculous to make comments on situation that many people seem to have little first hand knowledge of. I want to work. I love teaching and I am a great teacher. I do not want to strike, but I will do what it takes to ensure that my students receive everything that they need to be successful, including safe schools, appropriate staff (clinicians, paraprofessionals, etc), and appropriate materials.
Also, FYI charter schools do not require their teachers to be certified. If teaching is so easy and pays so well, some of you should submit your resumes!
We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired.
Do you not consider the entire summer part of your vacation?
It's not paid, so why should I? Also, as a special educator, I teach extended school year for 4-6 weeks during the summer. I also spend a week or so at my school to move furniture, clean, go to inservices, again unpaid.
Like I said, I believe that a make a decent raise and am not looking for a substantial raise, as some others have alluded to. They could pay me a million dollars, but if classroom sizes continue to increase, special education violations continue to pile up, and unfounded mandates continue to be placed on me, it wouldn't be worth it.
6-29-98 Chicago---10-9-00 Chicago---4-23-03 Champaign---6-18-03 Chicago---5-16-06 Chicago---8-5-07 Chicago---8-22-08 Chicago (EV)---
8-23-09 Chicago---8-24-09 Chicago---6-28-11 Chicago (EV)---9-3-11 Alpine---9-4-11 Alpine
"As many as 6,000 teachers could lose their jobs under the evaluation system, according to Lewis, who called the system "unacceptable."
"This is no way to measure the effectiveness of an educator," she said Sunday. "Further, there are too many factors beyond our control which impact how well some students perform on standardized tests such as poverty, exposure to violence, homelessness, hunger and other social issues beyond our control.""
We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired.
Do you not consider the entire summer part of your vacation?
It's not paid, so why should I? Also, as a special educator, I teach extended school year for 4-6 weeks during the summer. I also spend a week or so at my school to move furniture, clean, go to inservices, again unpaid.
Like I said, I believe that a make a decent raise and am not looking for a substantial raise, as some others have alluded to. They could pay me a million dollars, but if classroom sizes continue to increase, special education violations continue to pile up, and unfounded mandates continue to be placed on me, it wouldn't be worth it.
So, if you don;t count all that extra time off the average salary for a teacher in Chicago is actually more equal to about $90,000. Almost $80,000 for about 10 months work, right?
As a Chicago Public School Teacher, I feel the need to say something based solely on the amount of misinformation and ugly comments that I see here.
I make a decent wage, but as an early childhood special education teacher, I earn every penny that I make. Every teacher I know is willing to take the small raise that CPS is offering, even though they took away our contractually obligated raise last year. I'm not looking for more money, even though I spend a ridiculous amount of my salary on supplies, including basics such as kleenex. I recently received another endorsement, that will not make me anymore money, on my own dime. I am now required to be in my buidling an extra hour each day for free (add that to the hour before and hour after I already spend there). It is NOT ABOUT RAISES! It is about working and learning conditions.
Just to be clear:
We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired. I personally average one day a year because I know how detrimental it is for me to not be there. Any other time off is UNPAID.
Every K-8 classroom in my school has 35-40 children in it. This is in an economically depressed area, with 99% poverty rate. The children spend an average of 18-25 days per school year taking standardized tests. Track E students started school in 90-plus degree weather, with no air conditioning. Don't even get me started on special education law and reform...
Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think it is ridiculous to make comments on situation that many people seem to have little first hand knowledge of. I want to work. I love teaching and I am a great teacher. I do not want to strike, but I will do what it takes to ensure that my students receive everything that they need to be successful, including safe schools, appropriate staff (clinicians, paraprofessionals, etc), and appropriate materials.
Also, FYI charter schools do not require their teachers to be certified. If teaching is so easy and pays so well, some of you should submit your resumes!
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
As a Chicago Public School Teacher, I feel the need to say something based solely on the amount of misinformation and ugly comments that I see here.
I make a decent wage, but as an early childhood special education teacher, I earn every penny that I make. Every teacher I know is willing to take the small raise that CPS is offering, even though they took away our contractually obligated raise last year. I'm not looking for more money, even though I spend a ridiculous amount of my salary on supplies, including basics such as kleenex. I recently received another endorsement, that will not make me anymore money, on my own dime. I am now required to be in my buidling an extra hour each day for free (add that to the hour before and hour after I already spend there). It is NOT ABOUT RAISES! It is about working and learning conditions.
Just to be clear:
We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired. I personally average one day a year because I know how detrimental it is for me to not be there. Any other time off is UNPAID.
Every K-8 classroom in my school has 35-40 children in it. This is in an economically depressed area, with 99% poverty rate. The children spend an average of 18-25 days per school year taking standardized tests. Track E students started school in 90-plus degree weather, with no air conditioning. Don't even get me started on special education law and reform...
Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think it is ridiculous to make comments on situation that many people seem to have little first hand knowledge of. I want to work. I love teaching and I am a great teacher. I do not want to strike, but I will do what it takes to ensure that my students receive everything that they need to be successful, including safe schools, appropriate staff (clinicians, paraprofessionals, etc), and appropriate materials.
Also, FYI charter schools do not require their teachers to be certified. If teaching is so easy and pays so well, some of you should submit your resumes!
So, if you don;t count all that extra time off the average salary for a teacher in Chicago is actually more equal to about $90,000. Almost $80,000 for about 10 months work, right?[/quote]
I have been teaching for 8 years and make nowhere near that amount.
6-29-98 Chicago---10-9-00 Chicago---4-23-03 Champaign---6-18-03 Chicago---5-16-06 Chicago---8-5-07 Chicago---8-22-08 Chicago (EV)---
8-23-09 Chicago---8-24-09 Chicago---6-28-11 Chicago (EV)---9-3-11 Alpine---9-4-11 Alpine
We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired.
Do you not consider the entire summer part of your vacation?
It's not paid, so why should I? Also, as a special educator, I teach extended school year for 4-6 weeks during the summer. I also spend a week or so at my school to move furniture, clean, go to inservices, again unpaid.
Like I said, I believe that a make a decent raise and am not looking for a substantial raise, as some others have alluded to. They could pay me a million dollars, but if classroom sizes continue to increase, special education violations continue to pile up, and unfounded mandates continue to be placed on me, it wouldn't be worth it.
Seems paid to me. Unless you're trying to say the average teacher in Chicago makes $70K+ for 9/10 months work. That's kinda echoing my point. For example, I think most folks consider Christmas vacation as vacation in the private market. But, what do they know. They're all laying off people because of a recession and stuff.
Anyway, I found the line about having to pay for Kleenex funny. That must be tough.
Anyway, I found the line about having to pay for Kleenex funny. That must be tough. [/quote]
Yeah because spending thousands of dollars of your salary each year on basic supplies is funny. I have bought tissues, toilet paper, baby wipes, diapers, winter coats, pens, pencils, markers, soap, paper towels, in addition to learning materials. I don't know of too many other jobs that require you to bring your own supplies...
6-29-98 Chicago---10-9-00 Chicago---4-23-03 Champaign---6-18-03 Chicago---5-16-06 Chicago---8-5-07 Chicago---8-22-08 Chicago (EV)---
8-23-09 Chicago---8-24-09 Chicago---6-28-11 Chicago (EV)---9-3-11 Alpine---9-4-11 Alpine
Not true on what point? The CTU stated yesterday that money was not a sticking point...
Just asking, this article makes the strike about $ (not salary, but benefits) and about ensuring they have jobs if schools close. I never saw anywhere about the stuff you wrote about...safe, good learning environments, etc. I was just wondering your thoughts on this article and whether or not it was highlighting the top reasons of the strike as it says it is.
Anyway, I found the line about having to pay for Kleenex funny. That must be tough.
Yeah because spending thousands of dollars of your salary each year on basic supplies is funny. I have bought tissues, toilet paper, baby wipes, diapers, winter coats, pens, pencils, markers, soap, paper towels, in addition to learning materials. I don't know of too many other jobs that require you to bring your own supplies...[/quote]
I agree with you. In my kids school district the schools don't pay for that stuff either, the parents are all "asked" to "donate" it. I imagine in your school district the parents are either unable or unwilling to do so.
So, if you don;t count all that extra time off the average salary for a teacher in Chicago is actually more equal to about $90,000. Almost $80,000 for about 10 months work, right?
I have been teaching for 8 years and make nowhere near that amount.[/quote]
But this strike isn't just about you, I;m just using the averages stated in the article.
And if you are a good teacher, you should be able to make more money then a long time terrible teacher. I think that is a travesty.
Comments
I really think he needs to make a statement soon......
This is his city, his people, his VOTES.
If any of my info is incorrect, feel free to correct me.
I have no problem admitting when I am wrong.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
you really think this city is going to vote in any other direction come nov
Unfortunately no.
A lot of people in the private sector don’t ask for more money if their boss tells them to work overtime. They do it to keep their job. It sucks, but it’s a fact of life – especially in this economy. In fact, a lot of folks in the private sector would gladly take a pay cut if necessary, rather than lose their jobs - if the company needed to cut costs. Like a hurting business, our gov't is broke. Why public employees should be immune to the fact that the government is broke, our economy sucks and our student achievement (their goal) is terrible?
But, on your point EXACTLY how many in terms of days/hours “additional” are they being asked to work? 16% more? 30% more? What is it?
That happens everywhere. Why exactly should teachers be immune? This sounds an awful lot like rationalizing.
Everyone knows they aren’t the only factor. BUT, and a key but, the child and the parent aren’t being paid public money. The teacher is. We can dance around the fact that the teacher has a job to do all day, but they do. And they are being paid quite well – it says in Chicago over 70K on average. That, to me, is absolutely ridiculous. It’s fucking higher than many college professors, which is quite ridiculous.
Getting back to your example though. On retail, what if a retail worker is paid partially or fully on commission and the customer is having a bad day and doesn’t purchase the product? Or what happens if the customer doesn't like the sales person and doesn’t buy a shirt because of it? It's kinda ridiculous to use those examples. That stuff happens.
Why not have a real conversation and real debate about how to fix education that truly includes teachers, parents and students? Because it won’t solve anything - debates rarely solve anything. People can debate societal issues all day long and pretend like they can control our society. The way to alter society is to try to do something individually in our daily lives. That's pretty much it.
Raising Chicago’s teachers pay will “solve” nothing; in fact one can argue, as 90% of those in this thread are, it will make matters worse.
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"With our thoughts we make the world"
How do the Chicago charter school works? people who wish to put kids in charter school given a certificate and then off the kid goes? Is this an option? Its really early in the school year so why not send your kids to a charter school?
Why do people get upset when they see the wages/benefits/perks that teachers get...really $70 000 doesn't strike me as an absurd salary.
I work in the support staff of a school board and our teachers are some very well compensated teachers. I also get to see their dedication to kids. Most not all do way more than they have to.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
They shouldn't be making over $70,000 a year on average before benefits (retirement/pension) and have off in the summer. Once again, it's higher than many college professors make.That's ridiculous.
That's not to say teachers aren't good people. I know 99% are. The truth is though - they shouldnt be getting into teaching if they want to make a lot of money or have off in the summer or have a great pension or all of the above. That's not the way it should be at least in this economy. It should be they want to give back. You like to educate. You get something out of it. Sure, getting paid for it, and reasonably well... is a perk. But, $70K plus... is too high in my mind - especially with their shit results. And fighting for more is just not right.
Our government is broke. They need to back off ....
...like everyone else is. If we had no debt, I wouldn't complain about the teacher's salaries. We are broke. They are public employees.
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They aren't the reason your government is broke or any government is broke. I do not begrudge teachers because they have good pay/benefits/perks...as a matter of fact we all should strive to acheive their standard of living. But instead people bitch and moan that a teachers makes a good salary etc...when so many have become slaves to the corporate machine who would rather outsource jobs and make incredible profits than make sure they have a good standard of living.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Thank you, couldn't have said it any better myself.
What is the reason our government is broke? Seriously, I'm curious of your answer.
Because I think the true answer basically refutes every other point you made. The government is broke primarily because of special interests. But, it boils down to government spending more than they have. Thos who support government spending in general live in a fantasy land, like the one you painted, where gov't has the power to increase standards of living countrywide by spending money that it's taking from it's citizens to begin with (or printing and devaluing it's currency). The logic - just give group A this (at X cost), give group B that (at Y cost), give group C (at Z cost) this, etc. and take it from group M, country N and bank A - that will make people "better off". :fp: In the short run, that may "seem" to work - government will take loans and pay it out, economy may look better briefly until the debt is owed. But, in the long run, we end up here - with a large cost to the former action. Prolonged government spending above their means is exactly like prolonged corporate or personal spending above one's means. It seems great until the shit hits the fan. Government spending as the per-eminent source of a good standard of living is asinine. The entity that will grow the economy is a growth in resources or technology. That's it. Increasing welfare programs, redistribution or gov't pay doesn't do squat in the long run.... other than debt and depressions - it constrains growth. Economic growth will cause the government to have more money to work with. That's what is needed.
Like I said, teachers making great money is fantastic if:
1) It's warranted
2) It's not an economic mess
3) The government is not broke
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Interesting, thanks.
I make a decent wage, but as an early childhood special education teacher, I earn every penny that I make. Every teacher I know is willing to take the small raise that CPS is offering, even though they took away our contractually obligated raise last year. I'm not looking for more money, even though I spend a ridiculous amount of my salary on supplies, including basics such as kleenex. I recently received another endorsement, that will not make me anymore money, on my own dime. I am now required to be in my buidling an extra hour each day for free (add that to the hour before and hour after I already spend there). It is NOT ABOUT RAISES! It is about working and learning conditions.
Just to be clear:
We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired. I personally average one day a year because I know how detrimental it is for me to not be there. Any other time off is UNPAID.
Every K-8 classroom in my school has 35-40 children in it. This is in an economically depressed area, with 99% poverty rate. The children spend an average of 18-25 days per school year taking standardized tests. Track E students started school in 90-plus degree weather, with no air conditioning. Don't even get me started on special education law and reform...
Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think it is ridiculous to make comments on situation that many people seem to have little first hand knowledge of. I want to work. I love teaching and I am a great teacher. I do not want to strike, but I will do what it takes to ensure that my students receive everything that they need to be successful, including safe schools, appropriate staff (clinicians, paraprofessionals, etc), and appropriate materials.
Also, FYI charter schools do not require their teachers to be certified. If teaching is so easy and pays so well, some of you should submit your resumes!
8-23-09 Chicago---8-24-09 Chicago---6-28-11 Chicago (EV)---9-3-11 Alpine---9-4-11 Alpine
Do you not consider the entire summer part of your vacation?
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So is this not true?
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/10/wh ... ?hpt=hp_t1
It's not paid, so why should I? Also, as a special educator, I teach extended school year for 4-6 weeks during the summer. I also spend a week or so at my school to move furniture, clean, go to inservices, again unpaid.
Like I said, I believe that a make a decent raise and am not looking for a substantial raise, as some others have alluded to. They could pay me a million dollars, but if classroom sizes continue to increase, special education violations continue to pile up, and unfounded mandates continue to be placed on me, it wouldn't be worth it.
8-23-09 Chicago---8-24-09 Chicago---6-28-11 Chicago (EV)---9-3-11 Alpine---9-4-11 Alpine
"This is no way to measure the effectiveness of an educator," she said Sunday. "Further, there are too many factors beyond our control which impact how well some students perform on standardized tests such as poverty, exposure to violence, homelessness, hunger and other social issues beyond our control.""
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/10/us/illino ... ?hpt=hp_t1
Wow, just wow. No way to measure the effectiveness? Really?
So, if you don;t count all that extra time off the average salary for a teacher in Chicago is actually more equal to about $90,000. Almost $80,000 for about 10 months work, right?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Not true on what point? The CTU stated yesterday that money was not a sticking point...
8-23-09 Chicago---8-24-09 Chicago---6-28-11 Chicago (EV)---9-3-11 Alpine---9-4-11 Alpine
I have been teaching for 8 years and make nowhere near that amount.
8-23-09 Chicago---8-24-09 Chicago---6-28-11 Chicago (EV)---9-3-11 Alpine---9-4-11 Alpine
Seems paid to me. Unless you're trying to say the average teacher in Chicago makes $70K+ for 9/10 months work. That's kinda echoing my point. For example, I think most folks consider Christmas vacation as vacation in the private market. But, what do they know. They're all laying off people because of a recession and stuff.
Anyway, I found the line about having to pay for Kleenex funny. That must be tough.
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Yeah because spending thousands of dollars of your salary each year on basic supplies is funny. I have bought tissues, toilet paper, baby wipes, diapers, winter coats, pens, pencils, markers, soap, paper towels, in addition to learning materials. I don't know of too many other jobs that require you to bring your own supplies...
8-23-09 Chicago---8-24-09 Chicago---6-28-11 Chicago (EV)---9-3-11 Alpine---9-4-11 Alpine
Just asking, this article makes the strike about $ (not salary, but benefits) and about ensuring they have jobs if schools close. I never saw anywhere about the stuff you wrote about...safe, good learning environments, etc. I was just wondering your thoughts on this article and whether or not it was highlighting the top reasons of the strike as it says it is.
Yeah because spending thousands of dollars of your salary each year on basic supplies is funny. I have bought tissues, toilet paper, baby wipes, diapers, winter coats, pens, pencils, markers, soap, paper towels, in addition to learning materials. I don't know of too many other jobs that require you to bring your own supplies...[/quote]
I agree with you. In my kids school district the schools don't pay for that stuff either, the parents are all "asked" to "donate" it. I imagine in your school district the parents are either unable or unwilling to do so.
I have been teaching for 8 years and make nowhere near that amount.[/quote]
But this strike isn't just about you, I;m just using the averages stated in the article.
And if you are a good teacher, you should be able to make more money then a long time terrible teacher. I think that is a travesty.