Chicago Public School Teachers on Strike...

riotgrl

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

I want to address a couple of things based on my understanding of this particular strike. First, the teachers are asking for more money because the school district is wanting to extend the school day and, I believe, increase the number of days in the entire school year which I believe is a legitimate thing to ask for - most of us would want our salaries increased if our working hours were increased. However, I do believe that they did negotiate a 16% increase over 2 years which would amount to the 30% number that has been quoted. That seems more than fair to me so that is part of the contract that should have been accepted by the teachers union.

Second, when teachers mention job security they aren't really talking about (well most don't but I am sure some do mean this) keeping their job regardless of job performance. In many instances, without "job security", teachers have been fired or demoted, becuase of petty office politics which is not the same.

Third, teachers may have the MOST responsbility for ensuring that their students are successful but they are NOT the only factor, therefore, why should teacher evaulations, hence teacher pay, totally reside upon the efforts of the teacher? What about parental support? What about student effort? You're going to base teacher pay on ONE test? What if the kid doesn't like the teacher and deliberately blows the test to "get back at them"? What if the kid is having a bad day and can't focus and concentrate during the test? There are too many factors involved to have teacher pay completely dependent on student test scores. And if we're being honest, no, your pay is not dependent upon the efforts of someone else to determine your pay. If you work retail, would it be fair to have your entire pay determined by your customers? I do believe that student test scores and student success should play a PART in the evaluation and pay process. And those teachers that are opposed to it completely are fighting a losing battle. The extension of the school day and longer school years are coming and are completely necessary for our country to remain competitive in the global economy.

How about a real conversation and a real debate about how to fix education that truly includes teachers, parents and students in the decision making process? Why should teachers spend their time blaming the parents and kids and the parents blaming the teachers. This just obscures the real problem and therefore prevents any real solution to the problem.

I have no sympathy for these teachers.
None.
Thats just me.


When they initially asked for a 30% increase.
They instantly lost any type of support from me.

I totally understand that. I am certainly having a difficult time sympathizing with them as well. We are not getting a raise at all this year. And while it would be nice, I know that our state is really having a hard time funding anything right now. I suppose I just don't understand the vitriolic hatred many seem to have towards teachers. Most teachers are hard workers who really are trying to do right by their students but unfortunately, its issues like these that paint all teachers as selfish and self serving. LIke I said, its too bad we can't get past these issues to address the real problem. We are desperately falling behind other nations and many of our businesses, especially small businesses, can't fill their positions because of a lack of education and proper job training skills. If we all reaized that it takes all of us, parents, teachers, students, and the community, to create awesome kids, then maybe we could get somewhere with the conversation.

QuarterToTen

riotgrl wrote:

The extension of the school day and longer school years are coming and are completely necessary for our country to remain competitive in the global economy.

And as educators, teachers should be the first to realize and embrace this undeniable fact, and approach it as a challenge instead of immediately dismissing this perfectly reasonable request.

The education system needs to educate itself, first and foremost.

elvistheking44

Talks broke down last night around 9pm Chicago time, we are now approaching 9am Chicago time and no talks are happening.

I do realize that you put in two super, duper, exhausting 9 hour days this weekend to negotiate.

Teachers sure did get out early this morning to picket and party though....... :roll:

carolinabeerguy

riotgrl wrote:

I totally understand that. I am certainly having a difficult time sympathizing with them as well. We are not getting a raise at all this year. And while it would be nice, I know that our state is really having a hard time funding anything right now. I suppose I just don't understand the vitriolic hatred many seem to have towards teachers. Most teachers are hard workers who really are trying to do right by their students but unfortunately, its issues like these that paint all teachers as selfish and self serving. LIke I said, its too bad we can't get past these issues to address the real problem. We are desperately falling behind other nations and many of our businesses, especially small businesses, can't fill their positions because of a lack of education and proper job training skills. If we all reaized that it takes all of us, parents, teachers, students, and the community, to create awesome kids, then maybe we could get somewhere with the conversation.

Agreed.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Now I am watching parents...
Pulling out their credit cards...
And paying the local YMCA's, to watch their kids for a day.

I am also watching the school teachers picketing, and acting like its a BIG PARTY!!


If I drove by one of those picket lines today..
I would end up in handcuffs.

elvistheking44

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Now I am watching parents...
Pulling out their credit cards...
And paying the local YMCA's, to watch their kids for a day.

I am also watching the school teachers picketing, and acting like its a BIG PARTY!!


If I drove by one of those picket lines today..
I would end up in handcuffs.

My neighborhood school is about 8 houses away from mine, I walk my daughter to school every morning, best part of my day. I can see them all partying and picketing down there right now. If my daughter wouldn't feel the brunt of my disapproval I would have been arrested already as well........

The worst part, is that my daughter looks shell shocked today.

davidtrios

:corn:

davidtrios

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

The average CPS teacher, who has about 14 years of experience, gets a total compensation equal to about $74,798/year or $34.50/hour. The average percentage of CPS students who meet or exceed state standards is 66%. The percentage of CPS 11th graders who meet college readiness benchmarks is 21% in Reading, 19% in Math, 11% in Science and 38% in English.

The average Chicagoan works a comparable schedule to a CPS teacher, yet earns half as much in total compensation, 33 fewer days off, higher health care costs for lower quality health benefits and either a 401(k) that they contribute heavily into or no retirement package at all.

Thus, under the current union contract, taxpayers are paying teachers double their own salaries in exchange for student achievement that leaves about 80% of graduating CPS high school students below college readiness standards.

just wondering, where did you get these facts?

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Why the hatred towards the CPS teachers?

Well lets see...

It has to be difficult for a parent, to sympathize with a group of educaters, making an average of $71,000 a year. The median income of these parents is about $45-$50,000 a year. These parents work 8-10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, 12 months a year. Most DO NOT have the luxury of a pension. Most do not get the summer off. Most do NOT get 10 days sick pay, 10 days vacation, 1 week off for Christmas, 1 week off for Spring break.

What do these parents get?
They get to be held hostage by a bunch of teachers. Teachers who at one point asked for a 30% hike in pay.
Teachers who are bitching about having to work 8 hours a day. Teachers who are bitching about the fact that they may be evaluated, and held responsible. Teachers bitching about air conditioners.

And I am positive 99% of these parents scratch their fucking heads, when they read the overall test scores of these children.

Indifference71

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME????????




SNews.com) - In the Chicago Public Schools, where the teacher’s union is now seeking a 30 percent raise over the next two years, only 21 percent of 8th graders tested at grade-level proficient or better in reading in 2011 and only 20 percent tested at grade-level proficient or better in mathematics, according to the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education.

The reading and math scores of Chicago public-school 8th graders not only ranked below the national average and the Illinois average, they also ranked below the average for 8th graders attending public schools in other large cities around the country.

I can kinda understand asking raise with a longer school day, but to ask for fucking 30% with these pathetic numbers??? What a fucking joke.

elvistheking44

Jason P wrote:

This isn't good for Obama.

I really think he needs to make a statement soon......

This is his city, his people, his VOTES.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

davidtrios wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

The average CPS teacher, who has about 14 years of experience, gets a total compensation equal to about $74,798/year or $34.50/hour. The average percentage of CPS students who meet or exceed state standards is 66%. The percentage of CPS 11th graders who meet college readiness benchmarks is 21% in Reading, 19% in Math, 11% in Science and 38% in English.

The average Chicagoan works a comparable schedule to a CPS teacher, yet earns half as much in total compensation, 33 fewer days off, higher health care costs for lower quality health benefits and either a 401(k) that they contribute heavily into or no retirement package at all.

Thus, under the current union contract, taxpayers are paying teachers double their own salaries in exchange for student achievement that leaves about 80% of graduating CPS high school students below college readiness standards.

just wondering, where did you get these facts?

Been googling all morning long.
If any of my info is incorrect, feel free to correct me.
I have no problem admitting when I am wrong.

81

ofthegirl99 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

This isn't good for Obama.

I really think he needs to make a statement soon......

This is his city, his people, his VOTES.

you really think this city is going to vote in any other direction come nov

elvistheking44

81 wrote:

ofthegirl99 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

This isn't good for Obama.

I really think he needs to make a statement soon......

This is his city, his people, his VOTES.

you really think this city is going to vote in any other direction come nov

Unfortunately no.

inlet13

riotgrl wrote:

I want to address a couple of things based on my understanding of this particular strike. First, the teachers are asking for more money because the school district is wanting to extend the school day and, I believe, increase the number of days in the entire school year which I believe is a legitimate thing to ask for - most of us would want our salaries increased if our working hours were increased. However, I do believe that they did negotiate a 16% increase over 2 years which would amount to the 30% number that has been quoted. That seems more than fair to me so that is part of the contract that should have been accepted by the teachers union.

A lot of people in the private sector don’t ask for more money if their boss tells them to work overtime. They do it to keep their job. It sucks, but it’s a fact of life – especially in this economy. In fact, a lot of folks in the private sector would gladly take a pay cut if necessary, rather than lose their jobs - if the company needed to cut costs. Like a hurting business, our gov't is broke. Why public employees should be immune to the fact that the government is broke, our economy sucks and our student achievement (their goal) is terrible?


But, on your point EXACTLY how many in terms of days/hours “additional” are they being asked to work? 16% more? 30% more? What is it?

riotgrl wrote:

Second, when teachers mention job security they aren't really talking about (well most don't but I am sure some do mean this) keeping their job regardless of job performance. In many instances, without "job security", teachers have been fired or demoted, becuase of petty office politics which is not the same.

That happens everywhere. Why exactly should teachers be immune? This sounds an awful lot like rationalizing.

riotgrl wrote:

Third, teachers may have the MOST responsbility for ensuring that their students are successful but they are NOT the only factor, therefore, why should teacher evaulations, hence teacher pay, totally reside upon the efforts of the teacher? What about parental support? What about student effort? You're going to base teacher pay on ONE test? What if the kid doesn't like the teacher and deliberately blows the test to "get back at them"? What if the kid is having a bad day and can't focus and concentrate during the test? There are too many factors involved to have teacher pay completely dependent on student test scores. And if we're being honest, no, your pay is not dependent upon the efforts of someone else to determine your pay. If you work retail, would it be fair to have your entire pay determined by your customers? I do believe that student test scores and student success should play a PART in the evaluation and pay process. And those teachers that are opposed to it completely are fighting a losing battle. The extension of the school day and longer school years are coming and are completely necessary for our country to remain competitive in the global economy.

Everyone knows they aren’t the only factor. BUT, and a key but, the child and the parent aren’t being paid public money. The teacher is. We can dance around the fact that the teacher has a job to do all day, but they do. And they are being paid quite well – it says in Chicago over 70K on average. That, to me, is absolutely ridiculous. It’s fucking higher than many college professors, which is quite ridiculous.

Getting back to your example though. On retail, what if a retail worker is paid partially or fully on commission and the customer is having a bad day and doesn’t purchase the product? Or what happens if the customer doesn't like the sales person and doesn’t buy a shirt because of it? It's kinda ridiculous to use those examples. That stuff happens.

riotgrl wrote:

How about a real conversation and a real debate about how to fix education that truly includes teachers, parents and students in the decision making process? Why should teachers spend their time blaming the parents and kids and the parents blaming the teachers. This just obscures the real problem and therefore prevents any real solution to the problem.

Why not have a real conversation and real debate about how to fix education that truly includes teachers, parents and students? Because it won’t solve anything - debates rarely solve anything. People can debate societal issues all day long and pretend like they can control our society. The way to alter society is to try to do something individually in our daily lives. That's pretty much it.

Raising Chicago’s teachers pay will “solve” nothing; in fact one can argue, as 90% of those in this thread are, it will make matters worse.

markin ball

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Why the hatred towards the CPS teachers?

Well lets see...

It has to be difficult for a parent, to sympathize with a group of educaters, making an average of $71,000 a year. The median income of these parents is about $45-$50,000 a year. These parents work 8-10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, 12 months a year. Most DO NOT have the luxury of a pension. Most do not get the summer off. Most do NOT get 10 days sick pay, 10 days vacation, 1 week off for Christmas, 1 week off for Spring break.

What do these parents get?
They get to be held hostage by a bunch of teachers. Teachers who at one point asked for a 30% hike in pay.
Teachers who are bitching about having to work 8 hours a day. Teachers who are bitching about the fact that they may be evaluated, and held responsible. Teachers bitching about air conditioners.

And I am positive 99% of these parents scratch their fucking heads, when they read the overall test scores of these children.

I would apply if I were you.

lukin2006

Its really unfair to blame the teachers...they are pawns (lemmings) doing what union leadership tells them. Sure they took a strike vote, probably most never thought a strike would happen (haven't had teachers strike in Chicago in 25 years).

How do the Chicago charter school works? people who wish to put kids in charter school given a certificate and then off the kid goes? Is this an option? Its really early in the school year so why not send your kids to a charter school?

Why do people get upset when they see the wages/benefits/perks that teachers get...really $70 000 doesn't strike me as an absurd salary.

I work in the support staff of a school board and our teachers are some very well compensated teachers. I also get to see their dedication to kids. Most not all do way more than they have to.

inlet13

lukin2006 wrote:

Its really unfair to blame the teachers...they are pawns (lemmings) doing what union leadership tells them. Sure they took a strike vote, probably most never thought a strike would happen (haven't had teachers strike in Chicago in 25 years).

How do the Chicago charter school works? people who wish to put kids in charter school given a certificate and then off the kid goes? Is this an option? Its really early in the school year so why not send your kids to a charter school?

Why do people get upset when they see the wages/benefits/perks that teachers get...really $70 000 doesn't strike me as an absurd salary.

I work in the support staff of a school board and our teachers are some very well compensated teachers. I also get to see their dedication to kids. Most not all do way more than they have to.

They shouldn't be making over $70,000 a year on average before benefits (retirement/pension) and have off in the summer. Once again, it's higher than many college professors make.That's ridiculous.

That's not to say teachers aren't good people. I know 99% are. The truth is though - they shouldnt be getting into teaching if they want to make a lot of money or have off in the summer or have a great pension or all of the above. That's not the way it should be at least in this economy. It should be they want to give back. You like to educate. You get something out of it. Sure, getting paid for it, and reasonably well... is a perk. But, $70K plus... is too high in my mind - especially with their shit results. And fighting for more is just not right.

Our government is broke. They need to back off ....

...like everyone else is. If we had no debt, I wouldn't complain about the teacher's salaries. We are broke. They are public employees.

BinauralJam

lukin2006

inlet13 wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Its really unfair to blame the teachers...they are pawns (lemmings) doing what union leadership tells them. Sure they took a strike vote, probably most never thought a strike would happen (haven't had teachers strike in Chicago in 25 years).

How do the Chicago charter school works? people who wish to put kids in charter school given a certificate and then off the kid goes? Is this an option? Its really early in the school year so why not send your kids to a charter school?

Why do people get upset when they see the wages/benefits/perks that teachers get...really $70 000 doesn't strike me as an absurd salary.

I work in the support staff of a school board and our teachers are some very well compensated teachers. I also get to see their dedication to kids. Most not all do way more than they have to.

They shouldn't be making over $70,000 a year on average before benefits (retirement/pension) and have off in the summer. Once again, it's higher than many college professors make.That's ridiculous.

That's not to say teachers aren't good people. I know 99% are. The truth is though - they shouldnt be getting into teaching if they want to make a lot of money or have off in the summer or have a great pension or all of the above. That's not the way it should be at least in this economy. It should be they want to give back. You like to educate. You get something out of it. Sure, getting paid for it, and reasonably well... is a perk. But, $70K plus... is too high in my mind - especially with their shit results. And fighting for more is just not right.

Our government is broke. They need to back off ....

...like everyone else is. If we had no debt, I wouldn't complain about the teacher's salaries. We are broke. They are public employees.

They aren't the reason your government is broke or any government is broke. I do not begrudge teachers because they have good pay/benefits/perks...as a matter of fact we all should strive to acheive their standard of living. But instead people bitch and moan that a teachers makes a good salary etc...when so many have become slaves to the corporate machine who would rather outsource jobs and make incredible profits than make sure they have a good standard of living.