I remember the days we didn't lock our doors.
Slept with the windows open in the summer.
Walked the street in the wee hours of the morning.
Life has been devalued, hope gone for many.
Pick up a gun make a victim,
get what you want, take a life so what.
Life sucks, theirs must too and if it doesn't and mine does
I'll hate you for that. I'll take what you have and abuse you before I go.
And then I'll go home and have a lemonade and BBQ and tell my friends
the fun I had at the rich guys house tormenting the old guy in front of his wife
and I'll show them the wedding rings I got.
Yes...
times are gone and what is replaced is ugly but we can take our lives back by fighting back.
Just as my neighbor did and thank God because he is a really nice old coot
and one that is not gonna take it anymore.
that's the point. laws change to protect the citizens and should reflect the current state of society. too much gun violence should not equal more guns for the "responsible".
Pretty obvious the criminals aren't law abiding people ... just a thought
and people are not being protected, why we must protect ourselves.
If you don't want to protect yourself that is fine, that is your right.
But Miss Ruby did and it saved her 89 year old bones.
She was courageous enough to fight back!
Bless her little old heart... it beats still today
in your scenario no gun she'd be a broken bag of bones, if even still alive.
but thats ok you don't like guns.
And my neighbor and the home invasion?
how would your scenario work our for him and his wife?
he has every right to protect his loved ones with a gun
but you don't like guns
as I have said...
can't punish the thoughtful because of the thoughtless
So responsible gun owners will keep their legal guns, how ever many, whatever type.
Enforce the laws we do have and put all this ridiculous energy that is going towards
banning guns to getting rid of illegal guns. Because that is the danger...
The devaluation of life itself, as I have posted many times , is the cause for gun violence.
If someone does not value life they don't care if they take one.
I am addressing mental illness issue, from the get go in this case because I feel
he will be found ill as the Gifford shooter was after the fact.
Seems more experts are agreeing as time is passing.
Thanks for clarifying that you are referring specifically to this case and not shootings in general. We'll find out more as his evals are completed and more info about his treatment history is released. I posted some of my own thoughts in the other thread, but the only expert opinions that matter are from the people who have evaluated or treated him directly.
It's clear you feel strongly about the need for mental health treatment and empathy for those struggling with mental illness, as do I. My concern is again the stigma that results when there are very generalizing kinds of comments and judgments being made that because someone commits a crime like this, they must be mentally ill.
Below are links to 2 articles on the topic. The second article is peer reviewed, but a little lengthy; this is the conclusion:
"Several general conclusions are supported by this brief overview. First, mental disorders are neither necessary, nor sufficient causes of violence. The major determinants of violence continue to be socio-demographic and socio-economic factors such as being young, male, and of lower socio-economic status.
Second, members of the public undoubtedly exaggerate both the strength of the relationship between major mental disorders and violence, as well as their own personal risk from the severely mentally ill. It is far more likely that people with a serious mental illness will be the victim of violence.
Third, substance abuse appears to be a major determinant of violence and this is true whether it occurs in the context of a concurrent mental illness or not. Those with substance disorders are major contributors to community violence, perhaps accounting for as much as a third of self-reported violent acts, and seven out of every 10 crimes of violence among mentally disordered offenders.
Finally, too much past research has focussed on the person with the mental illness, rather than the nature of the social interchange that led up to the violence. Consequently, we know much less than we should about the nature of these relationships and the contextual determinants of violence, and much less than we should about opportunities for primary prevention (30). Nevertheless, current literature supports early identification and treatment of substance abuse problems, and greater attention to the diagnosis and management of concurrent substance abuse disorders among seriously mentally ill as potential violence prevention strategies (25)."
most people that die from aids are gay so lets make being gay illegal and put a end to aids.... :roll:
Godfather.
I think that argument is backwards - HIV (the "weapon" or instrument in this case) disproportionately impacts more men that are gay, so let's get rid of the HIV virus or find ways to limit the spread
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Another story related to guns, but has nothing to do with mental illness. Rather a cop off duty shooting and killing his son he believed to be an intruder while on vacation. This is not a feasible way of dealing with a possible intruder... What happened to speaking before pulling the trigger?
Police officer shoots and kills his adult son, mistaking him for an intruder, in Old Forge, NY
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Saturday, July 21, 2012
OLD FORGE, N.Y. — State troopers say a police officer in New York shot and killed his son, mistaking him for an intruder.
Troopers say Parry Police Department Officer Michael Leach called 911 to report the shooting early Saturday. He was staying at the Clark Beach Motel and shot someone he believed to be an intruder. But the man turned out to be his 37-year-old son, Matthew Leach, according to the Syracuse Post-Standard.
Troopers say Leach used his department-issued .45-caliber Glock handgun in the shooting. He was hospitalized after the shooting.
most people that die from aids are gay so lets make being gay illegal and put a end to aids.... :roll:
Godfather.
I think that argument is backwards - HIV (the "weapon" or instrument in this case) disproportionately impacts more men that are gay, so let's get rid of the HIV virus or find ways to limit the spread
no I intended it the way I posted it I was making a point, but thank you for your kindness.
I don't even know why this is being discussed...
We ALL know what will be the outcome of all of this... NOTHING. Nothing will change and we will all pretend to be surprized and shocked when the next massacre occurs.
Maybe... we should file this away for that next tragedy and drag it out... you know, to save everyone's time and energy.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
most people that die from aids are gay so lets make being gay illegal and put a end to aids.... :roll:
Godfather.
I think that argument is backwards - HIV (the "weapon" or instrument in this case) disproportionately impacts more men that are gay, so let's get rid of the HIV virus or find ways to limit the spread
no I intended it the way I posted it I was making a point, but thank you for your kindness.
Godfather.
You're welcome. It's been way too long since I've had a logic class, but I don't think you can flip the object with the subject (or something like that) :oops: so if we're banning gay men instead of the weapon (HIV) we'd have to ban people with guns instead of the weapon (guns). Or what I've said may be total bullshit
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Pretty obvious the criminals aren't law abiding people ... just a thought
and people are not being protected, why we must protect ourselves.
do you understand how the law works? you make tougher laws to keep the "bad guys" in jail. laws are there as deterrents/punishments.
you keep mentioning one or two scenarios where people have been saved by owning a gun. what about the thousands of gun accidents, where children are killed, innocents are maimed, by responsible gun owners.
I never said I dislike guns. I dislike civilians owning them. I'm perfectly fine with the police and soldiers arming themselves.
Accidents happen to even the most responsible. you cannot deny this as fact, guns or cars or boats or anything.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
do you understand how the law works? you make tougher laws to keep the "bad guys" in jail. laws are there as deterrents/punishments.
you keep mentioning one or two scenarios where people have been saved by owning a gun. what about the thousands of gun accidents, where children are killed, innocents are maimed, by responsible gun owners.
I never said I dislike guns. I dislike civilians owning them. I'm perfectly fine with the police and soldiers arming themselves.
Accidents happen to even the most responsible. you cannot deny this as fact, guns or cars or boats or anything.[/quote
How those laws working for us
not to good
we can see why people are arming themselves
and countless very good endings are coming from that...
just google ...
one or two come on now
that was just from that day and didn't include the local stories of shop keeps
protecting themselves and businesses.
Or the ladies who stood their ground on a home invasion... your scenario they would have
all been beaten and raped...
but you don't like guns
Fine don't own one!
I guess we better ban cars and boats too then cause accidents happen ...
funny stuff
and then the criminals can have all the accidents
and make a living victimizing the good people who follow the law :fp:
It is not that hard to understand
the criminals got guns, will always have guns, the cops can't keep up,
or even show up to stop a crime.
People want a gun to protect themselves, they need a gun to protect themselves,
and it is their right to be able to do that.
It is your right to choose not to own one if you don't like guns.
But poor Miss Ruby is damn glad she had one and so am I.
yes, that would be a truth ...
I found your opinion amusing is all, nothing amusing about banning guns.
Thinking that we will no longer have a right to choose to protect ourselves
like Miss Ruby did. That is frightening. Poor Miss Ruby she was in for something
far more frightening if not for her gun.
I don't even know why this is being discussed...
We ALL know what will be the outcome of all of this... NOTHING. Nothing will change and we will all pretend to be surprized and shocked when the next massacre occurs.
Maybe... we should file this away for that next tragedy and drag it out... you know, to save everyone's time and energy.
Actually I saw more sadness and outrage then shock and surprise
but it's pretty clear there are different ways for people to handle this tragedy.
To try to make sense, understand, deal.
The rise in gun sales shows how some are dealing.
By being prepared as they see fit.
The calling for banning of guns and removing the right for one to protect
themselves and loved ones.
The extensive talk in the media about mental illness and the law
some calling for knowledge on this and empathy for an ill mind,
though testing not complete.
The call for death for this man, capital punishment the only fit punishment
for an evil man with a plan.
But for all no matter their opinion sadness and outrage is there, this we all share.
That and love and sympathy for the victims.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
Your sweet little Eddie Vedder in your profile is against guns. I find your post above completely amusing.
Exactly. Ergo, "Glorified G".
Some interesting info off of Wikipedia regarding the song:
"Glorified G" is an anti-gun song with lyrics mocking gun enthusiasts. The song was inspired by an incident in which drummer Dave Abbruzzese told the band he had just bought two guns which sparked a conversation about guns within the band. Vocalist Eddie Vedder about "Glorified G":
I didn't actually write that song...I was at a band rehearsal and just started writing down these things the guys were talking about. The band were having this conversation and I just took down the dialogue. One of the band members had just bought a gun. It was the drummer, actually. Ask him about it.[5]
Abbruzzese about "Glorified G":
I told our manager that I just bought a coupla guns and he told Jeff, and at rehearsal Jeff kinda blurted it out. And Eddie went, 'Whaaaat, you bought a GUN?' And I said, 'In fact, I bought two,' which ended up as the opening line of the song. I think it's fair to say Eddie was pretty outraged.[5]
Glorified G" was first performed live at the band's June 16, 1993 concert in Missoula, Montana at the University of Montana-Missoula's University Theatre.[6] The song was played live from its debut in 1993 up until 1996 when it was dropped from set lists. After the band's November 17, 1996 concert in Budapest, Hungary at the Sports Hall, the song was not performed live for a period of over six years. "Glorified G" finally made a return appearance at the band's April 11, 2003 concert in West Palm Beach, Florida at the Sound Advice Amphitheatre.[6] The song has since returned to Pearl Jam set lists. Live performances of "Glorified G" can be found on the "Dissident"/Live in Atlanta box set and various official bootlegs."
Nothing amusing about guns there or in my book either.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
and people are not being protected, why we must protect ourselves.
If you don't want to protect yourself that is fine, that is your right.
But Miss Ruby did and it saved her 89 year old bones.
She was courageous enough to fight back!
Bless her little old heart... it beats still today
in your scenario no gun she'd be a broken bag of bones, if even still alive.
but thats ok you don't like guns.
And my neighbor and the home invasion?
how would your scenario work our for him and his wife?
he has every right to protect his loved ones with a gun
but you don't like guns
as I have said...
can't punish the thoughtful because of the thoughtless
So responsible gun owners will keep their legal guns, how ever many, whatever type.
Enforce the laws we do have and put all this ridiculous energy that is going towards
banning guns to getting rid of illegal guns. Because that is the danger...
bad guys with guns not good guys with guns.
Oh I hope he gets help too. That's the goal, right? For him and his community.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Police officer shoots and kills his adult son, mistaking him for an intruder, in Old Forge, NY
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Saturday, July 21, 2012
OLD FORGE, N.Y. — State troopers say a police officer in New York shot and killed his son, mistaking him for an intruder.
Troopers say Parry Police Department Officer Michael Leach called 911 to report the shooting early Saturday. He was staying at the Clark Beach Motel and shot someone he believed to be an intruder. But the man turned out to be his 37-year-old son, Matthew Leach, according to the Syracuse Post-Standard.
Troopers say Leach used his department-issued .45-caliber Glock handgun in the shooting. He was hospitalized after the shooting.
no I intended it the way I posted it
Godfather.
We ALL know what will be the outcome of all of this... NOTHING. Nothing will change and we will all pretend to be surprized and shocked when the next massacre occurs.
Maybe... we should file this away for that next tragedy and drag it out... you know, to save everyone's time and energy.
Hail, Hail!!!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
nope, just stating a fact. don't ask a question and then whine about the answer.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
do you understand how the law works? you make tougher laws to keep the "bad guys" in jail. laws are there as deterrents/punishments.
you keep mentioning one or two scenarios where people have been saved by owning a gun. what about the thousands of gun accidents, where children are killed, innocents are maimed, by responsible gun owners.
I never said I dislike guns. I dislike civilians owning them. I'm perfectly fine with the police and soldiers arming themselves.
Accidents happen to even the most responsible. you cannot deny this as fact, guns or cars or boats or anything.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I asked redrock why then honored her wish of course
you just needed to say something nasty ... should the mods notice that?
not to good
we can see why people are arming themselves
and countless very good endings are coming from that...
just google ...
one or two come on now
that was just from that day and didn't include the local stories of shop keeps
protecting themselves and businesses.
Or the ladies who stood their ground on a home invasion... your scenario they would have
all been beaten and raped...
but you don't like guns
Fine don't own one!
I guess we better ban cars and boats too then cause accidents happen ...
funny stuff
and then the criminals can have all the accidents
and make a living victimizing the good people who follow the law :fp:
It is not that hard to understand
the criminals got guns, will always have guns, the cops can't keep up,
or even show up to stop a crime.
People want a gun to protect themselves, they need a gun to protect themselves,
and it is their right to be able to do that.
It is your right to choose not to own one if you don't like guns.
But poor Miss Ruby is damn glad she had one and so am I.
I find it disturbing you find this amusing.
I'm with redrock.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I found your opinion amusing is all, nothing amusing about banning guns.
Thinking that we will no longer have a right to choose to protect ourselves
like Miss Ruby did. That is frightening. Poor Miss Ruby she was in for something
far more frightening if not for her gun.
Your sweet little Eddie Vedder in your profile is against guns. I find your post above completely amusing.
life changes views though and sometimes without an update.
I love Eddie ... but I don't think he is little or mine
yes sweet indeed
always glad to amuse you
You know, My Lord... there art thou conversion kits available to thine at Gun Show to maketh that baby fully automatic.
Hail, Hail!!!
as is the case with 99.9% of topics on the train.
Godfather.
but it's pretty clear there are different ways for people to handle this tragedy.
To try to make sense, understand, deal.
The rise in gun sales shows how some are dealing.
By being prepared as they see fit.
The calling for banning of guns and removing the right for one to protect
themselves and loved ones.
The extensive talk in the media about mental illness and the law
some calling for knowledge on this and empathy for an ill mind,
though testing not complete.
The call for death for this man, capital punishment the only fit punishment
for an evil man with a plan.
But for all no matter their opinion sadness and outrage is there, this we all share.
That and love and sympathy for the victims.
Exactly. Ergo, "Glorified G".
Some interesting info off of Wikipedia regarding the song:
"Glorified G" is an anti-gun song with lyrics mocking gun enthusiasts. The song was inspired by an incident in which drummer Dave Abbruzzese told the band he had just bought two guns which sparked a conversation about guns within the band. Vocalist Eddie Vedder about "Glorified G":
I didn't actually write that song...I was at a band rehearsal and just started writing down these things the guys were talking about. The band were having this conversation and I just took down the dialogue. One of the band members had just bought a gun. It was the drummer, actually. Ask him about it.[5]
Abbruzzese about "Glorified G":
I told our manager that I just bought a coupla guns and he told Jeff, and at rehearsal Jeff kinda blurted it out. And Eddie went, 'Whaaaat, you bought a GUN?' And I said, 'In fact, I bought two,' which ended up as the opening line of the song. I think it's fair to say Eddie was pretty outraged.[5]
Glorified G" was first performed live at the band's June 16, 1993 concert in Missoula, Montana at the University of Montana-Missoula's University Theatre.[6] The song was played live from its debut in 1993 up until 1996 when it was dropped from set lists. After the band's November 17, 1996 concert in Budapest, Hungary at the Sports Hall, the song was not performed live for a period of over six years. "Glorified G" finally made a return appearance at the band's April 11, 2003 concert in West Palm Beach, Florida at the Sound Advice Amphitheatre.[6] The song has since returned to Pearl Jam set lists. Live performances of "Glorified G" can be found on the "Dissident"/Live in Atlanta box set and various official bootlegs."
Nothing amusing about guns there or in my book either.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"