America is a very young country compared to the other nations of the world.
Our problems here have brought gun problems with them and crime.
US cities filled with Americans without hope who don't value life there own or others,
filled with people who prey on others as their livelihood.
Comparing the US to countries of old with mega histories and who were not formed
as the US was nor have the world statue and responsibility of the US is ridiculous
yet something that seems to be done quite frequently.
The fact that this incidence sparked gun sales is not puzzling at all ...
look at Atl. When you know every bad guy has a gun and there are tons,
its a good idea to be prepared. It is prudent to protect yourself and loved ones.
As far as understanding, it is very easy to understand the victims,
imagine what they are going through, lend love and support.
It is far more difficult to extend that to the shooter.
So many fill themselves with hate this is much easier.
This was posted to all who compare the US to their own country's situation.
Age of the country is only one point I made here that makes comparison difficult.
How and why our country was founded is unique as is the role in the world,
something envisioned by its founders. I think we know why the very wealthy founded this country.
Add the uncontrolled immigration problem unique to the US,
this adding crime, the sheer number of guns, illegal drug use, gang violence and the terrible drain on social services,
all these factors are devaluing the living conditions of the average American.
When a person lives a life of strife, lives without hope, they do not value life itself,
not their own or their neighbors.
I never said ban all guns but it isn't a coincidence that these things happen more often in the US - where your gunlaws are from my pov anyway insanely lax - than any other western nation
Timeline: Mass shooting incidents in last 25 years
(Reuters) - Here is a timeline of some of the worst shooting incidents carried out by one or two gunmen around the world in the last 25 years:
March 13, 1996 - BRITAIN - Gunman Thomas Hamilton burst into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and shot dead 16 children and their teacher before killing himself.
April 28, 1996 - AUSTRALIA - Martin Bryant unleashed modern Australia's worst mass murder when he shot dead 35 people at the Port Arthur tourist site in the southern state of Tasmania.
April 1999 - UNITED STATES - Two heavily-armed teenagers went on a rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Denver, shooting 13 students and staff before taking their own lives.
July 1999 - UNITED STATES - A gunman killed nine people at two brokerages in Atlanta, after apparently killing his wife and two children. He committed suicide five hours later.
June 2001 - NEPAL - Eight members of the Nepalese Royal family were killed in a palace massacre by Crown Prince Dipendra who later turned a gun on himself and died few days later. His youngest brother also died later raising the death toll to 10.
April 26, 2002 - GERMANY - In Erfurt, eastern Germany, 19-year-old Robert Steinhauser opened fire after saying he was not going to take a math test. He killed 12 teachers, a secretary, two pupils and a policeman at the Gutenberg Gymnasium, before killing himself.
October 2002 - UNITED STATES - John Muhammad and Lee Malvo killed 10 people in sniper-style shooting deaths that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area.
April 16, 2007 - USA - Virginia Tech, a university in Blacksburg, Virginia, became the site of the deadliest rampage in U.S. history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.
November 7, 2007 - FINLAND - Pekka-Eric Auvinen killed six fellow students, the school nurse, the principal and himself with a handgun at the Jokela High School near Helsinki.
September 23, 2008 - FINLAND - Student Matti Saari opened fire in a vocational school in Kauhajoki in northwest Finland, killing nine other students and one male staff member before killing himself.
March 11, 2009 - GERMANY - A 17-year-old gunman dressed in combat gear killed nine students and three teachers at a school near Stuttgart. He also killed one other person at a nearby clinic. He was later killed in a shoot-out with police. Two additional passers-by were killed and two policemen seriously injured, bringing the death toll to 16 including the gunman.
June 2, 2010 - BRITAIN - Gunman Derrick Bird opened fire on people in towns across the rural county of Cumbria. Twelve people were killed and 11 injured. Bird also killed himself.
April 9, 2011 - NETHERLANDS - Tristan van der Vlis opened fire in the Ridderhof mall in Alphen aan den Rijn, south of Amsterdam, killing six before turning the gun on himself.
July 22, 2011 - NORWAY - Police seize a gunman who killed 69 people at a youth summer camp of Norway's ruling political party, on the small, holiday island of Utoeya. Anders Behring Breivik is later charged with the killings, as well as with an earlier bombing in Oslo which killed eight people. The trial ended last month with Breivik saying that his bombing and shooting rampage was necessary to defend the country - prompting a walk-out by relatives of his victims.
December 13, 2011 - BELGIUM - Gunman Nordine Armani killed three people, including a 17-month-old toddler, wounding 121 in a central square in the eastern city of Liege, before shooting himself. The next day Belgian investigators found the body of a woman in warehouse used by the gunman raising the death toll, including the killer, to five.
July 20, 2012 - UNITED STATES - A masked gunman killed 14 people and wounded 50 others when he opened fire on moviegoers at a showing of new Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" in the city of Denver.
It seems it is a worldwide problem but the devaluation of life in America, a rise in mental illness,
1 out of 5 now in the US, and the lack of good affordable readily available treatment for
those in need, these are the reasons for gun violence, not the guns themselves.
the devaluation of life in America, a rise in mental illness,
1 out of 5 now in the US, and the lack of good affordable readily available treatment for
those in need, these are the reasons for gun violence, not the guns themselves.
Nope, they are some of the reasons for violence, but the availability of guns is certainly one of the big reasons for GUN violence.
the devaluation of life in America, a rise in mental illness,
1 out of 5 now in the US, and the lack of good affordable readily available treatment for
those in need, these are the reasons for gun violence, not the guns themselves.
Nope, they are some of the reasons for violence, but the availability of guns is certainly one of the big reasons for GUN violence.
Are you taking into consideration illegal gun use and looking at the lack of effect on crime
the stricter gun laws are having where these laws have been passed?
This very much effects availability or the lack there of, and prove,
if someone is going to be a criminal with a gun, they will find one.
Prohibiting buying guns in a legal way only keep those who follow the law
without a way to protect themselves.
Like I said here in Atl it is wise, prudent to be a gun owner to protect
loved ones, property and neighbors.
It seems it is a worldwide problem but the devaluation of life in America, a rise in mental illness,
1 out of 5 now in the US, and the lack of good affordable readily available treatment for
those in need, these are the reasons for gun violence, not the guns themselves.
Yeah, that is a big part of it..but did you see the link a few pages back (maybe the other gun thread) that Cincy posted? here it is again: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=192967&p=4532115#p4532115
The states with the least permissive gun laws were all at the bottom of the list in gun deaths per 100,000. I thought that was interesting.
Just going on simple probability and statistics, I believe if you reduced the amount of guns (probably too late for that though), we'd be much better off. There's no denying that the USA is the absolute #1 in numbers of guns and gun deaths. Those stats are likely correlated somehow. (That list you posted is just mass shootings.)
if someone is going to be a criminal with a gun, they will find one.
Well shit, then let's forget about laws that protect children from sexual predators, i mean if someone is going to do it, no matter the laws, they will find a way.
And don't get me started on drugs....or domestic violence...or theft... people are going to do it anyhow so we might as well not take any sort of action to try to minimize it or reduce it's harmful effects.
Prohibiting buying guns in a legal way only keep those who follow the law
without a way to protect themselves.
I'm so tired of hearing this speculation. Unless you are talking about prohibiting ALL guns -- in that case I agree, but nobody is talking about prohibiting ALL guns in here. Most are saying that guns like AR-15 should be more regulated. If they were regulated there's no way of telling if Holmes would've gone through the trouble to get his hands on something with so much firepower or if he'd have the ability to find one illegally. He, and many other future shooters, might just settle for a handgun and only kill 2-3 people instead of killing 12 and injuring 70+. Its all just speculation though.
It seems it is a worldwide problem but the devaluation of life in America, a rise in mental illness,
1 out of 5 now in the US, and the lack of good affordable readily available treatment for
those in need, these are the reasons for gun violence, not the guns themselves.
Yeah, that is a big part of it..but did you see the link a few pages back (maybe the other gun thread) that Cincy posted? here it is again: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=192967&p=4532115#p4532115
The states with the least permissive gun laws were all at the bottom of the list in gun deaths per 100,000. I thought that was interesting.
Just going on simple probability and statistics, I believe if you reduced the amount of guns (probably too late for that though), we'd be much better off. There's no denying that the USA is the absolute #1 in numbers of guns and gun deaths. Those stats are likely correlated somehow. (That list you posted is just mass shootings.)
we have a gun problem.
Yes I would say too late when our gun sales here in GA went up by 300%, after the shooting,
compared to the same day last year.
Not only are guns needed they are wanted.
Guns protect.
Prohibiting buying guns in a legal way only keep those who follow the law
without a way to protect themselves.
I'm so tired of hearing this speculation. Unless you are talking about prohibiting ALL guns -- in that case I agree, but nobody is talking about prohibiting ALL guns in here. Most are saying that guns like AR-15 should be more regulated. If they were regulated there's no way of telling if Holmes would've gone through the trouble to get his hands on something with so much firepower or if he'd have the ability to find one illegally. He, and many other future shooters, might just settle for a handgun and only kill 2-3 people instead of killing 12 and injuring 70+. Its all just speculation though.
I am for enforcing gun laws we have in place which we are learning is not happening.
I figure if the feds know who is taking a flight lesson,
they know who is buying a gun like you speak of.
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
"Let your gun be your constant companion on all your walks." Jefferson
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Lama
"Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them." Walter Mondale, VP
"Gun control? It's the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing." Sammy "The Bull" Gravano
"A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie." Lenin, Creator of USSR
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms" Hitler
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason, Father of the Bill of Rights
"I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should in a cowardly manner become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor." Gandhi
The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government." Hubert H Humphrey, VP
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life." John F Kennedy
"Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the state." Heinrich Himmler, Head of Nazi SS
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy." George Orwell
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in their government." Jefferson
"The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."Washington
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." Luke 22:36
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
if someone is going to be a criminal with a gun, they will find one.
Well shit, then let's forget about laws that protect children from sexual predators, i mean if someone is going to do it, no matter the laws, they will find a way.
And don't get me started on drugs....or domestic violence...or theft... people are going to do it anyhow so we might as well not take any sort of action to try to minimize it or reduce it's harmful effects.
So you think some pedophiles are responsible, that the action of victimizing children for ones
own gratification to be responsible behavior in any way?
Because I don't so comparing it to gun ownership is ridiculous.
There are responsible gun owners, who follow laws in place, gun ownership
the responsible decision in many places in our country.
The responsible decision to protect family and life itself.
The other examples mentioned are all illegal and not practiced by responsible law abiding
citizens.
Of course we need laws governing and protecting, we have them already in place for guns,
let's enforce the laws we have.
I just want to point out that this list you've posted twice is very, very incomplete. If you're trying to make the point that these shootings don't only happen here then at least post a complete list.
Timeline: Mass shooting incidents in last 25 years
(Reuters) - Here is a timeline of some of the worst shooting incidents carried out by one or two gunmen around the world in the last 25 years:
March 13, 1996 - BRITAIN - Gunman Thomas Hamilton burst into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and shot dead 16 children and their teacher before killing himself.
April 28, 1996 - AUSTRALIA - Martin Bryant unleashed modern Australia's worst mass murder when he shot dead 35 people at the Port Arthur tourist site in the southern state of Tasmania.
April 1999 - UNITED STATES - Two heavily-armed teenagers went on a rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Denver, shooting 13 students and staff before taking their own lives.
July 1999 - UNITED STATES - A gunman killed nine people at two brokerages in Atlanta, after apparently killing his wife and two children. He committed suicide five hours later.
June 2001 - NEPAL - Eight members of the Nepalese Royal family were killed in a palace massacre by Crown Prince Dipendra who later turned a gun on himself and died few days later. His youngest brother also died later raising the death toll to 10.
April 26, 2002 - GERMANY - In Erfurt, eastern Germany, 19-year-old Robert Steinhauser opened fire after saying he was not going to take a math test. He killed 12 teachers, a secretary, two pupils and a policeman at the Gutenberg Gymnasium, before killing himself.
October 2002 - UNITED STATES - John Muhammad and Lee Malvo killed 10 people in sniper-style shooting deaths that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area.
April 16, 2007 - USA - Virginia Tech, a university in Blacksburg, Virginia, became the site of the deadliest rampage in U.S. history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.
November 7, 2007 - FINLAND - Pekka-Eric Auvinen killed six fellow students, the school nurse, the principal and himself with a handgun at the Jokela High School near Helsinki.
September 23, 2008 - FINLAND - Student Matti Saari opened fire in a vocational school in Kauhajoki in northwest Finland, killing nine other students and one male staff member before killing himself.
March 11, 2009 - GERMANY - A 17-year-old gunman dressed in combat gear killed nine students and three teachers at a school near Stuttgart. He also killed one other person at a nearby clinic. He was later killed in a shoot-out with police. Two additional passers-by were killed and two policemen seriously injured, bringing the death toll to 16 including the gunman.
June 2, 2010 - BRITAIN - Gunman Derrick Bird opened fire on people in towns across the rural county of Cumbria. Twelve people were killed and 11 injured. Bird also killed himself.
April 9, 2011 - NETHERLANDS - Tristan van der Vlis opened fire in the Ridderhof mall in Alphen aan den Rijn, south of Amsterdam, killing six before turning the gun on himself.
July 22, 2011 - NORWAY - Police seize a gunman who killed 69 people at a youth summer camp of Norway's ruling political party, on the small, holiday island of Utoeya. Anders Behring Breivik is later charged with the killings, as well as with an earlier bombing in Oslo which killed eight people. The trial ended last month with Breivik saying that his bombing and shooting rampage was necessary to defend the country - prompting a walk-out by relatives of his victims.
December 13, 2011 - BELGIUM - Gunman Nordine Armani killed three people, including a 17-month-old toddler, wounding 121 in a central square in the eastern city of Liege, before shooting himself. The next day Belgian investigators found the body of a woman in warehouse used by the gunman raising the death toll, including the killer, to five.
July 20, 2012 - UNITED STATES - A masked gunman killed 14 people and wounded 50 others when he opened fire on moviegoers at a showing of new Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" in the city of Denver.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
Godfather.
Who cares about the specifics... They're saying the AR-15 Holmes had either had 100 capacity magazine or maybe 30...its excessive.
And I don't need to know shit about weaponry to know that the USA has the most guns on the planet and coincidentally, the most shooting deaths. That correlation is no concern to you?
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
Godfather.
Who cares about the specifics... They're saying the AR-15 Holmes had either had 100 capacity magazine or maybe 30...its excessive.
And I don't need to know shit about weaponry to know that the USA has the most guns on the planet and coincidentally, the most shooting deaths. That correlation is no concern to you?
Zero chance it had a 100 round magazine. 30 would be more likely.
That aside, didn't high-cap mags get banned a while back?
The term assault weapon is a United States political and legal term used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features generally associated with military assault rifles. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, codified the definition of an assault weapon. It defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine containing more than 10 rounds, and two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Primary pistol grip
Forward grip
Threaded barrel (for a muzzle brake or a suppressor, commonly called a silencer)
Barrel shroud
The assault weapons ban did not restrict weapons capable of fully automatic fire, such as assault rifles and machine guns, which have been continuously and heavily regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed. Subsequent laws such as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 also affected the importation and civilian ownership of fully automatic firearms, the latter fully prohibiting sales of newly manufactured machine guns to non-law enforcement or SOT (special occupational taxpayer) dealers.
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
Godfather.
So that is considered a hunting rifle
don't feel bad I diden't know either until today.
Godfather.
My sarcastic overtone flew right over your head sorry about that .....
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
Godfather.
Who cares about the specifics... They're saying the AR-15 Holmes had either had 100 capacity magazine or maybe 30...its excessive.
And I don't need to know shit about weaponry to know that the USA has the most guns on the planet and coincidentally, the most shooting deaths. That correlation is no concern to you?
eeeezzzzzzz bronco I just pointed out that holmes ar-15 is not an assult rifle and btw I am glad we have the most guns in the world...it stoped japan from attacking the california coast during WWII , remember the "gun behind every blade of grass" comment when they were asked why they did not attack our shores ?
[
It seems it is a worldwide problem but the devaluation of life in America, a rise in mental illness,
1 out of 5 now in the US, and the lack of good affordable readily available treatment for
those in need, these are the reasons for gun violence, not the guns themselves.
I didn't quote everything, so I apologize in advance if I've missed something you'd want to have included, but I just wanted to clarify - do you think the prevalence of mental illness is one of the major contributing factors for gun violence? If so, can you provide some statistics to support that cause and effect?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
Godfather.
Who cares about the specifics... They're saying the AR-15 Holmes had either had 100 capacity magazine or maybe 30...its excessive.
And I don't need to know shit about weaponry to know that the USA has the most guns on the planet and coincidentally, the most shooting deaths. That correlation is no concern to you?
Zero chance it had a 100 round magazine. 30 would be more likely.
That aside, didn't high-cap mags get banned a while back?
Saw this in a few places, dont know how true it is:
"He lobbed gas canisters at the crowd, then opened fire. By the time police arrived, 90 seconds later, Holmes had shot dozens of people because his rifle was modified with a high-powered drum magazine that allowed him to fire immense amounts of bullets without reloading. "It was a pretty rapid pace of fire in that theater," Oates said.
The high-capacity magazine had also been prohibited under the assault weapon ban, and even though the federal law expired a few states outlaw the devices. Colorado, which has relatively permissive gun laws, does not.
Colorado State Senator John Morse, a Democrat, said he wished the state barred large-capacity magazines and guns like the AR-15, but he does not expect the attack to make that likely. "The NRA has managed to convince the country that this has to happen to protect our Second Amendment rights," Morse said. "As long as we let people buy these guns, we will bury our children."
Rep Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY), whose husband was killed in a mass shooting on the Long Island Railroad in 1993, has proposed a ban on high-capacity magazines in Congress but acknowledges it has little chance of passage. She said she was horrified by the shooting but most shocked by the other material that Holmes allegedly accumulated -- the bullets and combat gear." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/2 ... 94451.html
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
Godfather.
Who cares about the specifics... They're saying the AR-15 Holmes had either had 100 capacity magazine or maybe 30...its excessive.
And I don't need to know shit about weaponry to know that the USA has the most guns on the planet and coincidentally, the most shooting deaths. That correlation is no concern to you?
eeeezzzzzzz bronco I just pointed out that holmes ar-15 is not an assult rifle and btw I am glad we have the most guns in the world...it stoped japan from attacking the california coast during WWII , remember the "gun behind every blade of grass" comment when they were asked why they did not attack our shores ?
Godfather.
You also implied that people who dont know about the specifics of these guns cant have an opinion. And No, I don't recall how our massive stockpile of guns saved us from Japan. I learned something today...But rest assured, anyone would be silly to attack us with guns these days, knowing how overly prepared our private citizens are...unless they use improvised missiles such as an airliner I suppose...boy did that make its way around our massive arsenal or what?!?! :fp:
Yes I would say too late when our gun sales here in GA went up by 300%, after the shooting,
compared to the same day last year.
Not only are guns needed they are wanted.
Guns protect.
That's interesting; I'm always hearing that guns don't kill, people kill yet apparently it's okay to flip it around and say 'guns protect'. If guns protect, they also kill.
Fortunately, guns are neither needed or wanted in Canada and other parts of the world in the same way they are needed in the US. I guess you guys are just better killers and protectors than the rest of us.
Christians and their guns... just like Jesus taught right? Everyone thinking they've got the inside track on heaven but they're all afraid to die and experience this eternal bliss they so believe in... Seems like you should thank the person that ends your toil here on earth prematurely. Or at least forgive them...
Comments
again, it will not stop all these things from happening but do you believe that limiting the guns that people can have access too will stop some?
this is not a one prong solution. its not just getting guns off the street, we also have to look at why people use guns to kill.
Age of the country is only one point I made here that makes comparison difficult.
How and why our country was founded is unique as is the role in the world,
something envisioned by its founders. I think we know why the very wealthy founded this country.
Add the uncontrolled immigration problem unique to the US,
this adding crime, the sheer number of guns, illegal drug use, gang violence
and the terrible drain on social services,
all these factors are devaluing the living conditions of the average American.
When a person lives a life of strife, lives without hope, they do not value life itself,
not their own or their neighbors.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns- ... 1812.story
Timeline: Mass shooting incidents in last 25 years
(Reuters) - Here is a timeline of some of the worst shooting incidents carried out by one or two gunmen around the world in the last 25 years:
March 13, 1996 - BRITAIN - Gunman Thomas Hamilton burst into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and shot dead 16 children and their teacher before killing himself.
April 28, 1996 - AUSTRALIA - Martin Bryant unleashed modern Australia's worst mass murder when he shot dead 35 people at the Port Arthur tourist site in the southern state of Tasmania.
April 1999 - UNITED STATES - Two heavily-armed teenagers went on a rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Denver, shooting 13 students and staff before taking their own lives.
July 1999 - UNITED STATES - A gunman killed nine people at two brokerages in Atlanta, after apparently killing his wife and two children. He committed suicide five hours later.
June 2001 - NEPAL - Eight members of the Nepalese Royal family were killed in a palace massacre by Crown Prince Dipendra who later turned a gun on himself and died few days later. His youngest brother also died later raising the death toll to 10.
April 26, 2002 - GERMANY - In Erfurt, eastern Germany, 19-year-old Robert Steinhauser opened fire after saying he was not going to take a math test. He killed 12 teachers, a secretary, two pupils and a policeman at the Gutenberg Gymnasium, before killing himself.
October 2002 - UNITED STATES - John Muhammad and Lee Malvo killed 10 people in sniper-style shooting deaths that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area.
April 16, 2007 - USA - Virginia Tech, a university in Blacksburg, Virginia, became the site of the deadliest rampage in U.S. history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.
November 7, 2007 - FINLAND - Pekka-Eric Auvinen killed six fellow students, the school nurse, the principal and himself with a handgun at the Jokela High School near Helsinki.
September 23, 2008 - FINLAND - Student Matti Saari opened fire in a vocational school in Kauhajoki in northwest Finland, killing nine other students and one male staff member before killing himself.
March 11, 2009 - GERMANY - A 17-year-old gunman dressed in combat gear killed nine students and three teachers at a school near Stuttgart. He also killed one other person at a nearby clinic. He was later killed in a shoot-out with police. Two additional passers-by were killed and two policemen seriously injured, bringing the death toll to 16 including the gunman.
June 2, 2010 - BRITAIN - Gunman Derrick Bird opened fire on people in towns across the rural county of Cumbria. Twelve people were killed and 11 injured. Bird also killed himself.
April 9, 2011 - NETHERLANDS - Tristan van der Vlis opened fire in the Ridderhof mall in Alphen aan den Rijn, south of Amsterdam, killing six before turning the gun on himself.
July 22, 2011 - NORWAY - Police seize a gunman who killed 69 people at a youth summer camp of Norway's ruling political party, on the small, holiday island of Utoeya. Anders Behring Breivik is later charged with the killings, as well as with an earlier bombing in Oslo which killed eight people. The trial ended last month with Breivik saying that his bombing and shooting rampage was necessary to defend the country - prompting a walk-out by relatives of his victims.
December 13, 2011 - BELGIUM - Gunman Nordine Armani killed three people, including a 17-month-old toddler, wounding 121 in a central square in the eastern city of Liege, before shooting himself. The next day Belgian investigators found the body of a woman in warehouse used by the gunman raising the death toll, including the killer, to five.
July 20, 2012 - UNITED STATES - A masked gunman killed 14 people and wounded 50 others when he opened fire on moviegoers at a showing of new Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" in the city of Denver.
It seems it is a worldwide problem but the devaluation of life in America, a rise in mental illness,
1 out of 5 now in the US, and the lack of good affordable readily available treatment for
those in need, these are the reasons for gun violence, not the guns themselves.
Nope, they are some of the reasons for violence, but the availability of guns is certainly one of the big reasons for GUN violence.
the stricter gun laws are having where these laws have been passed?
This very much effects availability or the lack there of, and prove,
if someone is going to be a criminal with a gun, they will find one.
Prohibiting buying guns in a legal way only keep those who follow the law
without a way to protect themselves.
Like I said here in Atl it is wise, prudent to be a gun owner to protect
loved ones, property and neighbors.
Yeah, that is a big part of it..but did you see the link a few pages back (maybe the other gun thread) that Cincy posted? here it is again:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=192967&p=4532115#p4532115
The states with the least permissive gun laws were all at the bottom of the list in gun deaths per 100,000. I thought that was interesting.
Just going on simple probability and statistics, I believe if you reduced the amount of guns (probably too late for that though), we'd be much better off. There's no denying that the USA is the absolute #1 in numbers of guns and gun deaths. Those stats are likely correlated somehow. (That list you posted is just mass shootings.)
we have a gun problem.
Well shit, then let's forget about laws that protect children from sexual predators, i mean if someone is going to do it, no matter the laws, they will find a way.
And don't get me started on drugs....or domestic violence...or theft... people are going to do it anyhow so we might as well not take any sort of action to try to minimize it or reduce it's harmful effects.
I'm so tired of hearing this speculation. Unless you are talking about prohibiting ALL guns -- in that case I agree, but nobody is talking about prohibiting ALL guns in here. Most are saying that guns like AR-15 should be more regulated. If they were regulated there's no way of telling if Holmes would've gone through the trouble to get his hands on something with so much firepower or if he'd have the ability to find one illegally. He, and many other future shooters, might just settle for a handgun and only kill 2-3 people instead of killing 12 and injuring 70+. Its all just speculation though.
compared to the same day last year.
Not only are guns needed they are wanted.
Guns protect.
I am for enforcing gun laws we have in place which we are learning is not happening.
I figure if the feds know who is taking a flight lesson,
they know who is buying a gun like you speak of.
It's not as hard as you think to find an illegal assault weapon.
http://global.christianpost.com/news/co ... deo-78663/ when someone has a purpose
they find a way.
And there are people talking about prohibiting all guns every night on TV talk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
what do you all think classifies any weapon an assult weapon ?
the weapon has to be able fire full auto and this wapon did not I believe.
is it just the weapon is scary looking and everybody needs a direction to point
with out really knowing the facts about the weapon, yes people tragically died but it seem that the people
screaming the most know little about weapondry.
just my thought on it.
Godfather.
Godfather.
"Let your gun be your constant companion on all your walks." Jefferson
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Lama
"Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them." Walter Mondale, VP
"Gun control? It's the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing." Sammy "The Bull" Gravano
"A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie." Lenin, Creator of USSR
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms" Hitler
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason, Father of the Bill of Rights
"I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should in a cowardly manner become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor." Gandhi
The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government." Hubert H Humphrey, VP
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life." John F Kennedy
"Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the state." Heinrich Himmler, Head of Nazi SS
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy." George Orwell
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in their government." Jefferson
"The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."Washington
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." Luke 22:36
So that is considered a hunting rifle
own gratification to be responsible behavior in any way?
Because I don't so comparing it to gun ownership is ridiculous.
There are responsible gun owners, who follow laws in place, gun ownership
the responsible decision in many places in our country.
The responsible decision to protect family and life itself.
The other examples mentioned are all illegal and not practiced by responsible law abiding
citizens.
Of course we need laws governing and protecting, we have them already in place for guns,
let's enforce the laws we have.
Timeline: Mass shooting incidents in last 25 years
(Reuters) - Here is a timeline of some of the worst shooting incidents carried out by one or two gunmen around the world in the last 25 years:
March 13, 1996 - BRITAIN - Gunman Thomas Hamilton burst into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and shot dead 16 children and their teacher before killing himself.
April 28, 1996 - AUSTRALIA - Martin Bryant unleashed modern Australia's worst mass murder when he shot dead 35 people at the Port Arthur tourist site in the southern state of Tasmania.
April 1999 - UNITED STATES - Two heavily-armed teenagers went on a rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Denver, shooting 13 students and staff before taking their own lives.
July 1999 - UNITED STATES - A gunman killed nine people at two brokerages in Atlanta, after apparently killing his wife and two children. He committed suicide five hours later.
June 2001 - NEPAL - Eight members of the Nepalese Royal family were killed in a palace massacre by Crown Prince Dipendra who later turned a gun on himself and died few days later. His youngest brother also died later raising the death toll to 10.
April 26, 2002 - GERMANY - In Erfurt, eastern Germany, 19-year-old Robert Steinhauser opened fire after saying he was not going to take a math test. He killed 12 teachers, a secretary, two pupils and a policeman at the Gutenberg Gymnasium, before killing himself.
October 2002 - UNITED STATES - John Muhammad and Lee Malvo killed 10 people in sniper-style shooting deaths that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area.
April 16, 2007 - USA - Virginia Tech, a university in Blacksburg, Virginia, became the site of the deadliest rampage in U.S. history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.
November 7, 2007 - FINLAND - Pekka-Eric Auvinen killed six fellow students, the school nurse, the principal and himself with a handgun at the Jokela High School near Helsinki.
September 23, 2008 - FINLAND - Student Matti Saari opened fire in a vocational school in Kauhajoki in northwest Finland, killing nine other students and one male staff member before killing himself.
March 11, 2009 - GERMANY - A 17-year-old gunman dressed in combat gear killed nine students and three teachers at a school near Stuttgart. He also killed one other person at a nearby clinic. He was later killed in a shoot-out with police. Two additional passers-by were killed and two policemen seriously injured, bringing the death toll to 16 including the gunman.
June 2, 2010 - BRITAIN - Gunman Derrick Bird opened fire on people in towns across the rural county of Cumbria. Twelve people were killed and 11 injured. Bird also killed himself.
April 9, 2011 - NETHERLANDS - Tristan van der Vlis opened fire in the Ridderhof mall in Alphen aan den Rijn, south of Amsterdam, killing six before turning the gun on himself.
July 22, 2011 - NORWAY - Police seize a gunman who killed 69 people at a youth summer camp of Norway's ruling political party, on the small, holiday island of Utoeya. Anders Behring Breivik is later charged with the killings, as well as with an earlier bombing in Oslo which killed eight people. The trial ended last month with Breivik saying that his bombing and shooting rampage was necessary to defend the country - prompting a walk-out by relatives of his victims.
December 13, 2011 - BELGIUM - Gunman Nordine Armani killed three people, including a 17-month-old toddler, wounding 121 in a central square in the eastern city of Liege, before shooting himself. The next day Belgian investigators found the body of a woman in warehouse used by the gunman raising the death toll, including the killer, to five.
July 20, 2012 - UNITED STATES - A masked gunman killed 14 people and wounded 50 others when he opened fire on moviegoers at a showing of new Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" in the city of Denver.
don't feel bad I diden't know either until today.
Godfather.
Who cares about the specifics... They're saying the AR-15 Holmes had either had 100 capacity magazine or maybe 30...its excessive.
And I don't need to know shit about weaponry to know that the USA has the most guns on the planet and coincidentally, the most shooting deaths. That correlation is no concern to you?
That aside, didn't high-cap mags get banned a while back?
:ugeek:
The term assault weapon is a United States political and legal term used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features generally associated with military assault rifles. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, codified the definition of an assault weapon. It defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine containing more than 10 rounds, and two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Primary pistol grip
Forward grip
Threaded barrel (for a muzzle brake or a suppressor, commonly called a silencer)
Barrel shroud
The assault weapons ban did not restrict weapons capable of fully automatic fire, such as assault rifles and machine guns, which have been continuously and heavily regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed. Subsequent laws such as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 also affected the importation and civilian ownership of fully automatic firearms, the latter fully prohibiting sales of newly manufactured machine guns to non-law enforcement or SOT (special occupational taxpayer) dealers.
My sarcastic overtone flew right over your head sorry about that .....
eeeezzzzzzz bronco I just pointed out that holmes ar-15 is not an assult rifle and btw I am glad we have the most guns in the world...it stoped japan from attacking the california coast during WWII , remember the "gun behind every blade of grass" comment when they were asked why they did not attack our shores ?
Godfather.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Saw this in a few places, dont know how true it is:
"He lobbed gas canisters at the crowd, then opened fire. By the time police arrived, 90 seconds later, Holmes had shot dozens of people because his rifle was modified with a high-powered drum magazine that allowed him to fire immense amounts of bullets without reloading. "It was a pretty rapid pace of fire in that theater," Oates said.
The high-capacity magazine had also been prohibited under the assault weapon ban, and even though the federal law expired a few states outlaw the devices. Colorado, which has relatively permissive gun laws, does not.
Colorado State Senator John Morse, a Democrat, said he wished the state barred large-capacity magazines and guns like the AR-15, but he does not expect the attack to make that likely. "The NRA has managed to convince the country that this has to happen to protect our Second Amendment rights," Morse said. "As long as we let people buy these guns, we will bury our children."
Rep Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY), whose husband was killed in a mass shooting on the Long Island Railroad in 1993, has proposed a ban on high-capacity magazines in Congress but acknowledges it has little chance of passage. She said she was horrified by the shooting but most shocked by the other material that Holmes allegedly accumulated -- the bullets and combat gear."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/2 ... 94451.html
Godfather.
Dont get defensive because I called you out on something silly. I'm not upset, just pointing it out.
I'm having a great day actually, thanks.
That's interesting; I'm always hearing that guns don't kill, people kill yet apparently it's okay to flip it around and say 'guns protect'. If guns protect, they also kill.
Fortunately, guns are neither needed or wanted in Canada and other parts of the world in the same way they are needed in the US. I guess you guys are just better killers and protectors than the rest of us.
you da man JP
Godfather.