and there is now new studies approaching the idea it can bring on full blown
mental illness as in schizophreniaSubstance abuse can cause family violence
just to name a few
and sorry it doesn't perfectly fit for you....
But could you have a problem with cause and effect?
Like in the big picture...
Really?? I would like to see an article of these said studies from an nationally acclaimed journal, such as those approved by the AMA or the APA. Substance abuse may 'bring on' similar symptomology as these psychotic disorders (which is widely known), but it is not known that substance abuse develops into 'full blown' schizophrenia. If what I'm saying is wrong, it's news to me, and show me proof (and I will gladly eat my shoe--it's just something that I have never heard of without being concomitant, insofar as what you're saying). And substance abuse has the potential to cause violence?? What?? No way. :roll:
Speaking from the addicts point of view. I used to hear police sirens and helicopters while I wa shigh on crack. Made this known to the clinic i was going to at the time. drug induced auditory schizo disorder? Something like that. Once the drug use stopped , so did the sounds. Many times I wished I would die, but could never bring myself to do it. Many reasons for that , but I couldnt do that to my mother as my sister did. She kinda took that decision away from me. Sis commited suicide in 1988.
Many years ago , I was also diagnosed with chronic depression, more so on the family history , I think, than in depth exam of me. Turns out when the drinking and drugging stopped and I was able to address many of my "issues" through the working of a 12 step program, the depression has went away as well. This is not to say thats the path for everyone.
But from my experience, a 12 step program has the best chance of daily success in not using , coupled with professional help for those that need that level of care , would go a long way for those folks.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
and do you think that insurance, or any federally regulated institution, is going to grant treatment of these individuals based on anything other than this so-called 'mumbo jumbo'.. eat another mushroom.
With all due respect, don't you talk to ME about my 'mumbo jumbo'. I have almost 8 years of post-secondary education in this field/area, and years of experience.. I did not invest that time (nor MONEY in student loans) because I don't care about that population. As usual, you turned what I said around into an argument regarding substance abuse, when that is not the question I asked you. I did not say that substance abuse was not a mental issue (or related), but it is NOT schizophrenia. And you make too many assumptions and you assume that nobody knows what he/she is talking about from firsthand experience (not to mention work-related or educational-related experience), and you are just wrong and need to step back and take a good look at yourself.
oh...and it's not a 'label' so much as a DIAGNOSIS...which is required for mental health care workers and health care workers in general to give care and decide upon a proper and helpful intervention.. the fact that you LABEL my references to actual diagnoses as listed in the DSM-IV 'mumbo jumbo' proves that you don't know what you're talking about.
...
You know how when you talk to your cat and all they hear is, " . . ' ' ' , ' ' ' . ' . , ' . ' ' . ' ' , ' . . ' ' . , " ?
...
I'm just sayin'.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
and there is now new studies approaching the idea it can bring on full blown
mental illness as in schizophreniaSubstance abuse can cause family violence
just to name a few
and sorry it doesn't perfectly fit for you....
But could you have a problem with cause and effect?
Like in the big picture...
Really?? I would like to see an article of these said studies from an nationally acclaimed journal, such as those approved by the AMA or the APA. Substance abuse may 'bring on' similar symptomology as these psychotic disorders (which is widely known), but it is not known that substance abuse develops into 'full blown' schizophrenia. If what I'm saying is wrong, it's news to me, and show me proof (and I will gladly eat my shoe--it's just something that I have never heard of without being concomitant, insofar as what you're saying). And substance abuse has the potential to cause violence?? What?? No way. :roll:
Speaking from the addicts point of view. I used to hear police sirens and helicopters while I wa shigh on crack. Made this known to the clinic i was going to at the time. drug induced auditory schizo disorder? Something like that. Once the drug use stopped , so did the sounds. Many times I wished I would die, but could never bring myself to do it. Many reasons for that , but I couldnt do that to my mother as my sister did. She kinda took that decision away from me. Sis commited suicide in 1988.
Many years ago , I was also diagnosed with chronic depression, more so on the family history , I think, than in depth exam of me. Turns out when the drinking and drugging stopped and I was able to address many of my "issues" through the working of a 12 step program, the depression has went away as well. This is not to say thats the path for everyone.
But from my experience, a 12 step program has the best chance of daily success in not using , coupled with professional help for those that need that level of care , would go a long way for those folks.
I'm terribly sorry for your losses. I'm not saying that every clinician performs their job adequately, because, as it has been said, the funds and availability are very limited for a multitude of reasons. But, yes, as far as substance abuse, 12 step programs are very much embraced and encouraged by the mental health field. I'm glad you have found your way!!
With all due respect, don't you talk to ME about my 'mumbo jumbo'. I have almost 8 years of post-secondary education in this field/area, and years of experience.. I did not invest that time (nor MONEY in student loans) because I don't care about that population. As usual, you turned what I said around into an argument regarding substance abuse, when that is not the question I asked you. I did not say that substance abuse was not a mental issue (or related), but it is NOT schizophrenia. And you make too many assumptions and you assume that nobody knows what he/she is talking about from firsthand experience (not to mention work-related or educational-related experience), and you are just wrong and need to step back and take a good look at yourself.
oh...and it's not a 'label' so much as a DIAGNOSIS...which is required for mental health care workers and health care workers in general to give care and decide upon a proper and helpful intervention.. the fact that you LABEL my references to actual diagnoses as listed in the DSM-IV 'mumbo jumbo' proves that you don't know what you're talking about.
...
You know how when you talk to your cat and all they hear is, " . . ' ' ' , ' ' ' . ' . , ' . ' ' . ' ' , ' . . ' ' . , " ?
...
I'm just sayin'.
sorry, I was responding to Pandora, who must know about these things.
and do you think that insurance, or any federally regulated institution, is going to grant treatment of these individuals based on anything other than this so-called 'mumbo jumbo'.. eat another mushroom.
and do you think that insurance, or any federally regulated institution, is going to grant treatment of these individuals based on anything other than this so-called 'mumbo jumbo'.. eat another mushroom.
ever tried mushrooms? Good Stuff
lol. No, I haven't personally, but I'm thinking that some are under the influence of something similar..peyote, maybe.. I feel like I'm in (or trying to dispel) the peace, love, and happiness place of the Manson commune in this discussion.
normy, normy, normy... what to say, what to say. thanks for the uplifting support of sorts. your kindness is huge. this topic has my brain cells in a chaotic state of cluster fucking and something like a dark deep hole where bullshit nasty old ass trolls, witches, warthogs, battle axes, war horses, zombies, evil dictators, communists, and sarah palin & ted nugent dwell and they have automatic weapons they got from their sister's boyfriend which is also their brother and dad :shock:
normy, normy, normy... what to say, what to say. thanks for the uplifting support of sorts. your kindness is huge. this topic has my brain cells in a chaotic state of cluster fucking and something like a dark deep hole where bullshit nasty old ass trolls, witches, warthogs, battle axes, war horses, zombies, evil dictators, communists, and sarah palin & ted nugent dwell and they have automatic weapons they got from their sister's boyfriend which is also their brother and dad :shock:
brother, out of all the sane voices in this thread, you're the most sanest...sometime brutal honesty is needed and dude, you bring it like no other! :thumbup:
yeah, I got that now... always been slow on the pick-up.
[/quote]
yes, norm, you came through again. Luckily it came to me before your enlightenment.. I'm the type that you shouldn't tell jokes to because you get a blank stare for a moment (or 20)...but otherwise, I'm not so bad.
normy, normy, normy... what to say, what to say. thanks for the uplifting support of sorts. your kindness is huge. this topic has my brain cells in a chaotic state of cluster fucking and something like a dark deep hole where bullshit nasty old ass trolls, witches, warthogs, battle axes, war horses, zombies, evil dictators, communists, and sarah palin & ted nugent dwell and they have automatic weapons they got from their sister's boyfriend which is also their brother and dad :shock:
brother, out of all the sane voices in this thread, you're the most sanest...sometime brutal honesty is needed and dude, you bring it like no other! :thumbup:
yes, norm, you came through again. Luckily it came to me before your enlightenment.. I'm the type that you shouldn't tell jokes to because you get a blank stare for a moment (or 20)...but otherwise, I'm not so bad.
you're awesome, em...i just speak cosmo...helps to have a overly sarcastic mind
yes, norm, you came through again. Luckily it came to me before your enlightenment.. I'm the type that you shouldn't tell jokes to because you get a blank stare for a moment (or 20)...but otherwise, I'm not so bad.
you're awesome, em...i just speak cosmo...helps to have a overly sarcastic mind
Thank you, norm. I appreciate that, really. So are you. And cosmo, too. . I have a sarcastic mind usually, also (as you can probably tell by some of my posts--diplomacy on this board [or in life in general] is not my forte)..but sometimes..you guys are over my head for a few..
you're awesome, em...i just speak cosmo...helps to have a overly sarcastic mind
...
That's for translating. I know that sometimes my mind works if odd ways... just part of being a cat... that smokes too much, I suppose.
...
Now... do you speak pandorian, by chance?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
you're awesome, em...i just speak cosmo...helps to have a overly sarcastic mind
...
That's for translating. I know that sometimes my mind works if odd ways... just part of being a cat... that smokes too much, I suppose.
...
Now... do you speak pandorian, by chance?
okay, I'll play for a second, since it has my attention (meant jokingly, and not elitist)..
There is a difference--thus referred to as a differential diagnosis, between schizophrenia, and a Substance-Induced Psychotic Disorder, Substance-Induced Delirium, and Substance-Related Disorders, etc.. This is from the DSM-IV. Please stop stating things as fact when they are not.
Tangential thought...tangential thread. just saying.
Does the person care about your mumbo jumbo?
I know I don't ...
What difference does it make to them? The suffering,
they want help before they hurt themselves or others...
Semantics again...
I was asked what I propose to do to help those with mental issues
and I came up with a solution of help.
All I hear is a bunch of crap on what to label someone.
I'll play along too...
young man deep in depression from the overuse of illegal sought
prescription drugs, his body has been calling for something so long
he can't remenber when he ever felt right... even long before
the first pill.
He gets in his car... he's angry at the world at himself
he never does anything right. He's going to do this right though.
It is the wee hours of the morning, he pops his last pills...
downed with a half a bottle of Jack
and gets on the highway going in the wrong direction...
on purpose.
Young beautiful family, two beautiful children sleeping peacefully in the back seat
of the mini van, on their way to their first visit to Disneyworld,
the impact is horrifying, cars collide head on..
leaving teddy bears lying in blood on the ground. All five are dead.
Do we think this young man had mental issues?
Do we think he needed help?
Do we think he cared or the family cared what you were going to label him?
Do we think we could have changed this?
I do if some would get over themselves and care about people who are just people
who need help.
With all due respect, don't you talk to ME about my 'mumbo jumbo'. I have almost 8 years of post-secondary education in this field/area, and years of experience.. I did not invest that time (nor MONEY in student loans) because I don't care about that population. As usual, you turned what I said around into an argument regarding substance abuse, when that is not the question I asked you. I did not say that substance abuse was not a mental issue (or related), but it is NOT schizophrenia. And you make too many assumptions and you assume that nobody knows what he/she is talking about from firsthand experience (not to mention work-related or educational-related experience), and you are just wrong and need to step back and take a good look at yourself.
oh...and it's not a 'label' so much as a DIAGNOSIS...which is required for mental health care workers and health care workers in general to give care and decide upon a proper and helpful intervention.. the fact that you LABEL my references to actual diagnoses as listed in the DSM-IV 'mumbo jumbo' proves that you don't know what you're talking about.
Don't you love it when a person starts with that then let's you have it
I never said substance abuse was a mental illness nor schizophrenia...
of course it is not believe me I know both all to well unfortunately
maybe better than you who knows
you know what they say about experience first hand...
Do you not get cause and effect either? hmmm
you didn't answer the questions though in the post...
you're awesome, em...i just speak cosmo...helps to have a overly sarcastic mind
...
That's for translating. I know that sometimes my mind works if odd ways... just part of being a cat... that smokes too much, I suppose.
...
Now... do you speak pandorian, by chance?
I figured it out before norm told me!! :oops: I'm part cat too!!
here's the deal. i wanna be friendly with most people, here and in the eye to eye world. i myself do not want anyone i communicate with on here to feel bad about anything i type out. pandora and some other folks may drive me batshit crazy but in no way shape or form do i want hatred and anything cruel to come between us.
i do admire folks with strong opinions even when we do not share views. different views is good and adds color to the mix. i want peace at the end of the day when it comes to these exhausting topics. then we can pick up where we left off the next morning. no ill will should be cast towards anyone of us. we're all here to rock & learn.
here's the deal. i wanna be friendly with most people, here and in the eye to eye world. i myself do not want anyone i communicate with on here to feel bad about anything i type out. pandora and some other folks may drive me batshit crazy but in no way shape or form do i want hatred and anything cruel to come between us.
i do admire folks with strong opinions even when we do not share views. different views is good and adds color to the mix. i want peace at the end of the day when it comes to these exhausting topics. then we can pick up where we left off the next morning. no ill will should be cast towards anyone of us. we're all here to rock & learn.
Mental illness encompasses all types of mental issues and behaviors.
From thought disorders, to depression to anger management, on and on.
It includes alcoholism and other substance abuse.
So if we address this and are proactive on getting people well in their heads,
well in their bodies, well in their lives,
the guns will remain in the hands of responsible people, who have no need to
resort to rage, crime for gain, revenge or killing in a delusional state.
Your information is not correct, but I'm not going to debate it with you. To be considered an "illness" it has to have a biological basis or we can't even bill for it. Substance abuse and milk was are separate issues that can co-occur but require different treatments and are not interchangeable. Youve been referring to schizophrenia and psychotic disorders, not substance abuse. I don't think it's relevant to the conversation, but would be happy to discuss it on another thread.
Oh boy priceless
This on the list to make a person who needs help crack I'm sure...
this the people others rely on to help keep the from cracking ...
no wonder the people with mental issues are losing it :fp:
unfrickinbelievable
Substance abuse is starting in young undiagnosed children...
it causes them to get addicted, who then sell or commit crimes to support the habit
Substance abuse causes side effects in young adults very much like clinical depression
and there is now new studies approaching the idea it can bring on full blown
mental illness as in schizophrenia
Substance abuse can cause family violence
just to name a few
and sorry it doesn't perfectly fit for you....
But could you have a problem with cause and effect?
Like in the big picture...
Damn! You have caught on to our evil plan! *insert evil laughter*
I'm going to strongly suggest that you refrain from the provocative and condescending comments. Stick to the issue.
To try and explain it, an injury is different from a disease which is different from an illness, right? A broken leg (injury) is different than a disease (cancer) and an illness (flu). Why do the names matter? Because they help us understand the origins and best treatments. The treatment for a broken leg is very different than the treatment for cancer. Now all these things can influence each other and impact the treatment as well. You can't group things together because they are very different. If you're going to help someone you better damn well make sure you understand the origin of the issue and the most effective treatment.
As Mickeyrat explained, substance abuse can in fact cause psychosis. I mentioned this very early on the thread. The treatment would be very different, however. In this case a substance is causing the psychosis and proper treatment would be to remove that substance from the system. Very different from schizophrenia which would require medication. On top of the addiction issues there may be underlying mental health issues. Both deserve treatment.
I'm not sure why I'm even explaining this anymore you have been successful in having a circular discussion veering way off topic. I'm not sure how we even got here my only point being the current system is overburdened and cannot meet your vision.
EmBleve thanks for you're input. It's spot on.
Cosmo - I will take that helmet now. I found myself explaining this to my cat, she got it. It's probably time to move on.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
here's the deal. i wanna be friendly with most people, here and in the eye to eye world. i myself do not want anyone i communicate with on here to feel bad about anything i type out. pandora and some other folks may drive me batshit crazy but in no way shape or form do i want hatred and anything cruel to come between us.
i do admire folks with strong opinions even when we do not share views. different views is good and adds color to the mix. i want peace at the end of the day when it comes to these exhausting topics. then we can pick up where we left off the next morning. no ill will should be cast towards anyone of us. we're all here to rock & learn.
basically guns are nasty as fuck
agreed
Chad for president...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Did see a drink (though I may have had a couple already!), and noticed that I would have more chance of a conversation with my cat?
**goes off to see if any of her 6 cats aren't hiding away from daughter's noisy party outside/downstairs to have a conversation....... found one! "Hey Rogue... so... what do you think". "Well... looking at all the arguments put forth, I do believe that you should feed me." OK... so that didn't quite work out as anticipated...**
Did see a drink (though I may have had a couple already!), and noticed that I would have more chance of a conversation with my cat?
**goes off to see if any of her 6 cats aren't hiding away from daughter's noisy party outside/downstairs to have a conversation....... found one! "Hey Rogue... so... what do you think". "Well... looking at all the arguments put forth, I do believe that you should feed me." OK... so that didn't quite work out as anticipated...**
Comments
Many years ago , I was also diagnosed with chronic depression, more so on the family history , I think, than in depth exam of me. Turns out when the drinking and drugging stopped and I was able to address many of my "issues" through the working of a 12 step program, the depression has went away as well. This is not to say thats the path for everyone.
But from my experience, a 12 step program has the best chance of daily success in not using , coupled with professional help for those that need that level of care , would go a long way for those folks.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
You know how when you talk to your cat and all they hear is, " . . ' ' ' , ' ' ' . ' . , ' . ' ' . ' ' , ' . . ' ' . , " ?
...
I'm just sayin'.
Hail, Hail!!!
ever tried mushrooms? Good Stuff
Just sayin'... you might be better off explaining all that stuff to your cat.
Hail, Hail!!!
a cat could pick it up quicker
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
brother, out of all the sane voices in this thread, you're the most sanest...sometime brutal honesty is needed and dude, you bring it like no other! :thumbup:
yes, norm, you came through again. Luckily it came to me before your enlightenment..
you're awesome, em...i just speak cosmo...helps to have a overly sarcastic mind
http://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl= ... oCx_7sTBsM
i typed aww shucks america into google images. this is what came up. look at the 4th pic from left.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
an axe, a soldier and tom cruise being batshit
yep, that's amurica!
That's for translating. I know that sometimes my mind works if odd ways... just part of being a cat... that smokes too much, I suppose.
...
Now... do you speak pandorian, by chance?
Hail, Hail!!!
unfortunately i don't...i never saw the movie
I never said substance abuse was a mental illness nor schizophrenia...
of course it is not
believe me I know both all to well unfortunately
maybe better than you who knows
you know what they say about experience first hand...
Do you not get cause and effect either? hmmm
you didn't answer the questions though in the post...
why?
i do admire folks with strong opinions even when we do not share views. different views is good and adds color to the mix. i want peace at the end of the day when it comes to these exhausting topics. then we can pick up where we left off the next morning. no ill will should be cast towards anyone of us. we're all here to rock & learn.
basically guns are nasty as fuck
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I'm going to strongly suggest that you refrain from the provocative and condescending comments. Stick to the issue.
To try and explain it, an injury is different from a disease which is different from an illness, right? A broken leg (injury) is different than a disease (cancer) and an illness (flu). Why do the names matter? Because they help us understand the origins and best treatments. The treatment for a broken leg is very different than the treatment for cancer. Now all these things can influence each other and impact the treatment as well. You can't group things together because they are very different. If you're going to help someone you better damn well make sure you understand the origin of the issue and the most effective treatment.
As Mickeyrat explained, substance abuse can in fact cause psychosis. I mentioned this very early on the thread. The treatment would be very different, however. In this case a substance is causing the psychosis and proper treatment would be to remove that substance from the system. Very different from schizophrenia which would require medication. On top of the addiction issues there may be underlying mental health issues. Both deserve treatment.
I'm not sure why I'm even explaining this anymore
EmBleve thanks for you're input. It's spot on.
Cosmo - I will take that helmet now. I found myself explaining this to my cat, she got it. It's probably time to move on.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Did see a drink (though I may have had a couple already!), and noticed that I would have more chance of a conversation with my cat?
**goes off to see if any of her 6 cats aren't hiding away from daughter's noisy party outside/downstairs to have a conversation....... found one! "Hey Rogue... so... what do you think". "Well... looking at all the arguments put forth, I do believe that you should feed me." OK... so that didn't quite work out as anticipated...**
Oh... and CHADWICK FOR PRESIDENT!