Power and control is this normal behavior?
Do people seek help for violence against their loved ones?
Depression leads to self medicating with substances.
Mental illness effects a huge part of our population
and these are the people who have sought help and been diagnosed,
lets at least double that for the people
who have no insurance, no means to seek help,
until after violence towards themselves or others.
This is the why to the shootings, to the crime, to the violence
so much so it should addressed to stop gun violence.
Power and control is very unhealthy behavior. It is not mental illness, however. People seek anger management for domestic violence, not psychiatric treatment unless there is a co-occuring mental illness. The myth that mental illness causes domestic violence is one that should not be perpetuated. Advocacy programs list this as a major myth.
Some people self-medicate when they are depressed. They may have a co-occuring substance abuse issue and we consider them to be dually diagnosed (two separate diagnoses). Many substance abuse programs will not accept people with a co-occuring mental illness because they require different treatment.
Many people in our society do live with mental illness that deserves proper diagnosis and treatment. I agree. Most of these people will never be violent.
You can treat mental illness and gun violence will still exist. They are separate issues that at times overlap and both deserve to be addressed.
Anger management is therapy / counseling :fp:
Most people with depression who can not afford to see doctors and pay for
prescriptions, self medicate.
I disagree it is more than at times they overlap as we are seeing in the recent shootings.
I think we can trace back mental illness issues to the examples I have made prior
and if these were addressed properly in our society with comprehensive care
we wouldn't be discussing guns at all.
I'll ask this again. How do you plan to go about forcing people to get the mental health help they need? Do you know how low the percentage is of people with mental issues actually seek treatment. It is incredibly low. Why? because of the stigma. which is actually being perpetuated by you, saying nonsense like people with mental illness are responsible for most if not all shooting sprees. How can you claim this? it's irresponsible to say so and borderline an ignorant statement that further stigmatizes the mentally ill.
Are you saying those who are mentally ill do not want treatment?
Is that not a terrible stigma?
Are you saying when it is within their power to seek treatment they don't?
This is a terrible thing to say about people who would very much like to get help
for themselves but at 200 dollar an hour and the cost of prescription drugs
it is just not going to happen.
And the families of those who need help but can't find or afford it.
I think your view is ignorant of the fact that many recognize and want help
but it is not available.
Your idea of mental illness being something to be ashamed of is so 1990's.
Awareness has taken us past that, some help is is being offered even to school age children
to turn that stigma even more as we head into the future. But it matters not if
mental health care is not going to be readily available in our society for all.
you have no idea what it is I just said. did you actually read my post?
it is a FACT that a very high percentage of the population do not get help because of the stigma of mental illness from society. I have gotten that help myself many years ago, and continue to do so. But it was actually very difficult because I was afraid to do so. Talk to any mental health professional, they will tell you how difficult it is to get people to get help.
it is nothing to be ashamed of. it's a disease like any other physical disease.
of course there are people who want help and can't afford it. OBVIOUSLY. I said a "very high percentage" of peolpe don't, not 100%.
please read posts before you comment on them.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Most people with depression who can not afford to see doctors and pay for
prescriptions, self medicate.
I disagree it is more than at times they overlap as we are seeing in the recent shootings.
Yes of course it's counseling. It's just not mental health counseling.
No, most people with depression do not self-medicate with alcohol or illicit substances. Some do. Some cope in other unhealthy ways (ie. cutting, sleeping too much), some find healthier ways to cope. Many do not even require prescription medication. There are very effective counseling treatments for depression.
Did you read the articles? The majority of mass shootings don't involve mental illness
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
When we remove the real threat... the person from the equation
is when violent acts and crime will cease.
so if I see two people, one with a gun, and one without a gun, they are the same threat level to you? HAHAHA.
wow
Do you just love to pull a sentence out from an entire thought and then pretend to be dumb to what the point was?
I guess that's one way to debate :fp:
too funny indeed
good god. this has been the idea behind this whole thread. you think people kill people, not guns. you have said numerous times that people who kill will find a way, gun or not.
so it's logical to deduce from that statement then that you believe someone without a gun is the same threat level to you as someone with a gun. if you are embarassed by the things you post, don't post them.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'll ask this again. How do you plan to go about forcing people to get the mental health help they need? Do you know how low the percentage is of people with mental issues actually seek treatment. It is incredibly low. Why? because of the stigma. which is actually being perpetuated by you, saying nonsense like people with mental illness are responsible for most if not all shooting sprees. How can you claim this? it's irresponsible to say so and borderline an ignorant statement that further stigmatizes the mentally ill.
Are you saying those who are mentally ill do not want treatment?
Is that not a terrible stigma?
Are you saying when it is within their power to seek treatment they don't?
This is a terrible thing to say about people who would very much like to get help
for themselves but at 200 dollar an hour and the cost of prescription drugs
it is just not going to happen.
And the families of those who need help but can't find or afford it.
I think your view is ignorant of the fact that many recognize and want help
but it is not available.
Your idea of mental illness being something to be ashamed of is so 1990's.
Awareness has taken us past that, some help is is being offered even to school age children
to turn that stigma even more as we head into the future. But it matters not if
mental health care is not going to be readily available in our society for all.
you have no idea what it is I just said. did you actually read my post?
it is a FACT that a very high percentage of the population do not get help because of the stigma of mental illness from society. I have gotten that help myself many years ago, and continue to do so. But it was actually very difficult because I was afraid to do so. Talk to any mental health professional, they will tell you how difficult it is to get people to get help.
it is nothing to be ashamed of. it's a disease like any other physical disease.
of course there are people who want help and can't afford it. OBVIOUSLY. I said a "very high percentage" of peolpe don't, not 100%.
please read posts before you comment on them.
I read your post and replied to it.
I say your years ago is a tell all because mental illness does not have the same stigma
as when you sought treatment as I have already said. More do not get help because it is not available nor affordable then those who are "afraid" to
so if I see two people, one with a gun, and one without a gun, they are the same threat level to you? HAHAHA.
wow
Do you just love to pull a sentence out from an entire thought and then pretend to be dumb to what the point was?
I guess that's one way to debate :fp:
too funny indeed
good god. this has been the idea behind this whole thread. you think people kill people, not guns. you have said numerous times that people who kill will find a way, gun or not.
so it's logical to deduce from that statement then that you believe someone without a gun is the same threat level to you as someone with a gun. if you are embarassed by the things you post, don't post them.
logical?
I'm embarrassed for you actually
I think you never understand my posts... I use never on purpose here, so why keep trying?
I think we can trace back mental illness issues to the examples I have made prior
and if these were addressed properly in our society with comprehensive care
we wouldn't be discussing guns at all.
This is simply untrue.
The USA has a blatant gun problem with laughable laws. Even gun advocates in this very thread have said that. We do acknowledge mental illness contributes to this sometimes, but our laws and culture are still a problem.
thank you, jonny p. this country has huge problems. one of the problems is guns. it is very simple to see & understand
I find all this thing about the link between mental illness and crime (whether perpetrator or victim) interesting. From a medical point of view but also from the judicial and media point of view. Maybe this could be a separate thread? A couple of links ref violent crime and mental health. Sure, some will say that one may be a study/publication from New Zealand and the other two a couple of articles from the BBC but they just seem to corroborate what CBG is trying to say (and I guess she has seen many, many studies as part of her job/expertise area). These were the first ones to be listed, thus chosen as I don't have much time to do any reading right now. One can always dig further by checking out the sources referenced in the articles.
Just a few quotes from these:
"This means that 5.2% of all violent crimes over the period were committed by people with severe mental illness." Note: violent crime includes, but is not limited to gun crime.
"Having a severe mental health problem does not make a person violent."
"People with conditions like schizophrenia are in fact more likely to be the victims of violence than others in the population."
"Mentally ill patients are six times more likely to be murdered than the general population, researchers have found."
"Serious mental illness has only a small influence on murder rates"
"They also found that alcohol and drug problems and personality disorder were
conditions associated with greater risk of violent offending than mental illness"
"Alcohol use, for example, was four times as likely as mental illness to be a precipitating factor in
homicide with a gun."
I think you never understand my posts... I use never on purpose here, so why keep trying?
nice personal jab. maybe you'd like to report yourself on that one?
no, I don't, and by far I'm not alone on that.
but you make a great point.
"the definition of crazy is attempting the same task while achieving the same undesired result".
I'm out.
That wasn't a jab I am sincere.
Continually you take one line separate from a thought and draw a
conclusion that was not at all what the post was about,
actually twisting or attempting to make fun of it or pretend you just don't get it.
I have mentioned this numerous times and it is transparent your motive for it.
It is embarrassing for you.
If you can't or won't understand my posts, I don't mean agree with I mean understand...
maybe just give it a rest. If your motive is to be rude give that a rest too.
So take that quoted advice for yourself and on a lighter note
never said I wasn't crazy
I think we can trace back mental illness issues to the examples I have made prior
and if these were addressed properly in our society with comprehensive care
we wouldn't be discussing guns at all.
This is simply untrue.
The USA has a blatant gun problem with laughable laws. Even gun advocates in this very thread have said that. We do acknowledge mental illness contributes to this sometimes, but our laws and culture are still a problem.
thank you, jonny p. this country has huge problems. one of the problems is guns. it is very simple to see & understand
The problem is not guns because millions upon millions own gunswithout ever a problem.
Getting illegal guns off the streets, putting criminals away ...
no chance for parole when a gun is used in a crime, this will help hugely.
And again getting help for those who need help with mental illness issues before violence occurs.
There is no reason to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
with all due respect...
hugh f-ing dillon is not the only one here who has trouble comprehending what you put out. i admit i have trouble following your written dialogue. you lose me often. many times i reread your stuff several times and am still lost.
i & many wanna be friendly
to many you come across as someone who is very much on a high & mighty power-trip-crusade of some kind. i knew something was off when you supported ted nugent killing every animal ins the world and now your belief system supports millions of wacko gun owners
again... many wanna be friendly here but we just can't for the life of us understand the pot stirring and argumentative horse manure being slung around
with all due respect...
hugh f-ing dillon is not the only one here who has trouble comprehending what you put out. i admit i have trouble following your written dialogue. you lose me often. many times i reread your stuff several times and am still lost.
i & many wanna be friendly
to many you come across as someone who is very much on a high & mighty power-trip-crusade of some kind. i knew something was off when you supported ted nugent killing every animal ins the world and now your belief system supports millions of wacko gun owners
again... many wanna be friendly here but we just can't for the life of us understand the pot stirring and argumentative horse manure being slung around
The problem is not guns because millions upon millions own gunswithout ever a problem.
Getting illegal guns off the streets, putting criminals away ...
no chance for parole when a gun is used in a crime, this will help hugely.
And again getting help for those who need help with mental illness issues before violence occurs.
There is no reason to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
booze drunk by sane ppl leads to four times as many homicides with a gun as a crazy
your stance on crazies is dead wrong. it is off base and needs adjustment.
The problem is not guns because millions upon millions own gunswithout ever a problem.
Getting illegal guns off the streets, putting criminals away ...
no chance for parole when a gun is used in a crime, this will help hugely.
And again getting help for those who need help with mental illness issues before violence occurs
so by this line of thinking mental illness is not the problem either since millions upon millions live with mental illness and never become violent.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I would say which comes first the illness or the movie?
Of course the mentally ill are not necessarily violent
that would be ridiculous, I have much illness in my family and in my life
none are violent.
What I am saying is violent people are mentally ill who can be helped
with the proper care.
As far as revenge that is personal gain. The person may be delusional or they may be depressed
both mental issues or they may be just mad as hell planning on leaving this world
and taking the most people they can with them.
I think mental illness healthcare can address all these though,
the people just need help and their loved ones know it.
This we know, they knew it but couldn't get it for them.
The problem is not guns because millions upon millions own gunswithout ever a problem.
Getting illegal guns off the streets, putting criminals away ...
no chance for parole when a gun is used in a crime, this will help hugely.
And again getting help for those who need help with mental illness issues before violence occurs
so by this line of thinking mental illness is not the problem either since millions upon millions live with mental illness and never become violent.
The guns in the hands of the mentally ill person is who kills.
I think that is what should be focused on ...
helping the mentally ill whether they will become violent or not. :?
They deserve this, they need this, and so does our society.
It will reduce crime of all kinds. It will help with substance abuse and with domestic violence.
It will also help the homeless.
I would say which comes first the illness or the movie?
Of course the mentally ill are not necessarily violent
that would be ridiculous, I have much illness in my family and in my life
none are violent.
What I am saying is violent people are mentally ill who can be helped
with the proper care.
As far as revenge that is personal gain. The person may be delusional or they may be depressed
both mental issues or they may be just mad as hell planning on leaving this world
and taking the most people they can with them.
I think mental illness healthcare can address all these though,
the people just need help and their loved ones know it.
This we know, they knew it but couldn't get it for them.
Most violent people are not mentally I'll. Revenge would be more indicative of a personality disorder than depression or other axis I disorders.
So what are your ideas for making mental health services more accessible?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
with all due respect...
hugh f-ing dillon is not the only one here who has trouble comprehending what you put out. i admit i have trouble following your written dialogue. you lose me often. many times i reread your stuff several times and am still lost.
i & many wanna be friendly
to many you come across as someone who is very much on a high & mighty power-trip-crusade of some kind. i knew something was off when you supported ted nugent killing every animal ins the world and now your belief system supports millions of wacko gun owners
again... many wanna be friendly here but we just can't for the life of us understand the pot stirring and argumentative horse manure being slung around
...
I gave up a long time ago. I found it to be a blatant waste of keystrokes.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The problem is not guns because millions upon millions own gunswithout ever a problem.
Getting illegal guns off the streets, putting criminals away ...
no chance for parole when a gun is used in a crime, this will help hugely.
And again getting help for those who need help with mental illness issues before violence occurs
so by this line of thinking mental illness is not the problem either since millions upon millions live with mental illness and never become violent.
The guns in the hands of the mentally ill person is who kills.
I think that is what should be focused on ...
helping the mentally ill whether they will become violent or not. :?
They deserve this, they need this, and so does our society.
It will reduce crime of all kinds. It will help with substance abuse and with domestic violence.
It will also help the homeless.
Of course anyone with a mental illness should be supported. That will not stop crime however. Your first statement is false
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
The problem is not guns because millions upon millions own gunswithout ever a problem.
Getting illegal guns off the streets, putting criminals away ...
no chance for parole when a gun is used in a crime, this will help hugely.
And again getting help for those who need help with mental illness issues before violence occurs.
There is no reason to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
booze drunk by sane ppl leads to four times as many homicides with a gun as a crazy
your stance on crazies is dead wrong. it is off base and needs adjustment.
Yes and people who drink and have a gun sitting on the table are irresponsible
gun owners. They are thoughtless but we can not remove the rights
of those who are thoughtful because of that.
Often it is these people who have illegal guns or will if restrictions are put in place
solving absolutely nothing.
every employer should pay mental health insurance to their workers; all employers both large & small, as well as pay their employees' dental insurance and health care, yes/no?
with all due respect...
hugh f-ing dillon is not the only one here who has trouble comprehending what you put out. i admit i have trouble following your written dialogue. you lose me often. many times i reread your stuff several times and am still lost.
i & many wanna be friendly
to many you come across as someone who is very much on a high & mighty power-trip-crusade of some kind. i knew something was off when you supported ted nugent killing every animal ins the world and now your belief system supports millions of wacko gun owners
again... many wanna be friendly here but we just can't for the life of us understand the pot stirring and argumentative horse manure being slung around
...
I gave up a long time ago. I found it to be a blatant waste of keystrokes.
care to share what you got in your avatar? puff, puff pass... please
The problem is not guns because millions upon millions own guns without ever a problem.
Getting illegal guns off the streets, putting criminals away ...
no chance for parole when a gun is used in a crime, this will help hugely.
And again getting help for those who need help with mental illness issues
before violence occurs.
There is no reason to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
No chance for parole would equal stronger gun control. After pages and pages of saying we don't need more laws now you're for a stiffer gun control law?
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
I would say which comes first the illness or the movie?
Of course the mentally ill are not necessarily violent
that would be ridiculous, I have much illness in my family and in my life
none are violent.
What I am saying is violent people are mentally ill who can be helped
with the proper care.
As far as revenge that is personal gain. The person may be delusional or they may be depressed
both mental issues or they may be just mad as hell planning on leaving this world
and taking the most people they can with them.
I think mental illness healthcare can address all these though,
the people just need help and their loved ones know it.
This we know, they knew it but couldn't get it for them.
Most violent people are not mentally I'll. Revenge would be more indicative of a personality disorder than depression or other axis I disorders.
So what are your ideas for making mental health services more accessible?
One step would be walk in clinics where people can not be turned away.
Not asked ... has that person injured themselves or another?
Then told sorry we can't help you until they do...
:fp:
Comments
Most people with depression who can not afford to see doctors and pay for
prescriptions, self medicate.
I disagree it is more than at times they overlap as we are seeing in the recent shootings.
you have no idea what it is I just said. did you actually read my post?
it is a FACT that a very high percentage of the population do not get help because of the stigma of mental illness from society. I have gotten that help myself many years ago, and continue to do so. But it was actually very difficult because I was afraid to do so. Talk to any mental health professional, they will tell you how difficult it is to get people to get help.
it is nothing to be ashamed of. it's a disease like any other physical disease.
of course there are people who want help and can't afford it. OBVIOUSLY. I said a "very high percentage" of peolpe don't, not 100%.
please read posts before you comment on them.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
No, most people with depression do not self-medicate with alcohol or illicit substances. Some do. Some cope in other unhealthy ways (ie. cutting, sleeping too much), some find healthier ways to cope. Many do not even require prescription medication. There are very effective counseling treatments for depression.
Did you read the articles? The majority of mass shootings don't involve mental illness
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
good god. this has been the idea behind this whole thread. you think people kill people, not guns. you have said numerous times that people who kill will find a way, gun or not.
so it's logical to deduce from that statement then that you believe someone without a gun is the same threat level to you as someone with a gun. if you are embarassed by the things you post, don't post them.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
once again, an absolute falsehood.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I say your years ago is a tell all because mental illness does not have the same stigma
as when you sought treatment as I have already said.
More do not get help because it is not available nor affordable then those who are "afraid" to
but I am repeating my original post :fp:
I'm embarrassed for you actually
I think you never understand my posts... I use never on purpose here, so why keep trying?
get your popcorn and enjoy the show.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
nice personal jab. maybe you'd like to report yourself on that one?
no, I don't, and by far I'm not alone on that.
but you make a great point.
"the definition of crazy is attempting the same task while achieving the same undesired result".
I'm out.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
thank you, redrock. and i love the alcohol bit ... 4x's greater to be a factor in homicide than mental illness. well yeah... no frickin shit....
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
but now that we're at page 2907, you'd think we'd have gotten somewhere, yes/no?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Continually you take one line separate from a thought and draw a
conclusion that was not at all what the post was about,
actually twisting or attempting to make fun of it or pretend you just don't get it.
I have mentioned this numerous times and it is transparent your motive for it.
It is embarrassing for you.
If you can't or won't understand my posts, I don't mean agree with I mean understand...
maybe just give it a rest. If your motive is to be rude give that a rest too.
So take that quoted advice for yourself and on a lighter note
never said I wasn't crazy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxsaW3O53XU
Getting illegal guns off the streets, putting criminals away ...
no chance for parole when a gun is used in a crime, this will help hugely.
And again getting help for those who need help with mental illness issues
before violence occurs.
There is no reason to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
hugh f-ing dillon is not the only one here who has trouble comprehending what you put out. i admit i have trouble following your written dialogue. you lose me often. many times i reread your stuff several times and am still lost.
i & many wanna be friendly
to many you come across as someone who is very much on a high & mighty power-trip-crusade of some kind. i knew something was off when you supported ted nugent killing every animal ins the world and now your belief system supports millions of wacko gun owners
again... many wanna be friendly here but we just can't for the life of us understand the pot stirring and argumentative horse manure being slung around
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
:thumbup:
your stance on crazies is dead wrong. it is off base and needs adjustment.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I would say which comes first the illness or the movie?
Of course the mentally ill are not necessarily violent
that would be ridiculous, I have much illness in my family and in my life
none are violent.
What I am saying is violent people are mentally ill who can be helped
with the proper care.
As far as revenge that is personal gain. The person may be delusional or they may be depressed
both mental issues or they may be just mad as hell planning on leaving this world
and taking the most people they can with them.
I think mental illness healthcare can address all these though,
the people just need help and their loved ones know it.
This we know, they knew it but couldn't get it for them.
I think that is what should be focused on ...
helping the mentally ill whether they will become violent or not. :?
They deserve this, they need this, and so does our society.
It will reduce crime of all kinds. It will help with substance abuse and with domestic violence.
It will also help the homeless.
So what are your ideas for making mental health services more accessible?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I gave up a long time ago. I found it to be a blatant waste of keystrokes.
Hail, Hail!!!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
gun owners. They are thoughtless but we can not remove the rights
of those who are thoughtful because of that.
Often it is these people who have illegal guns or will if restrictions are put in place
solving absolutely nothing.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Your second statement is false of course it will stop crime.
Stricter gun laws will not because the guns are still available. :fp:
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
No chance for parole would equal stronger gun control. After pages and pages of saying we don't need more laws now you're for a stiffer gun control law?
Not asked ... has that person injured themselves or another?
Then told sorry we can't help you until they do...
:fp: