Even as mentally unstable he was he was still sane enough to be able to key word here PURCHASE 4 WEAPONS IN A SPAN OF 4MONTHS , don't you think if we would of had laws in place to prevent these purchases some lives could of been saved ......
true
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Even as mentally unstable he was he was still sane enough to be able to key word here PURCHASE 4 WEAPONS IN A SPAN OF 4MONTHS , don't you think if we would of had laws in place to prevent these purchases some lives could of been saved ......
No I do not, he would have used a different method is all.
He is not sane, not then, not when he was firing shots, not now
but many sane people collect guns, perhaps even a weapon a month,
that does not make them a danger. It is mental illness that can make a person
a danger to others.
Attack the real problem with your giant letters and make some real change.
Again, why can't we do both. Work on mental health and gun control?
I don't really care about gun collectors. My dad is a gun collector. They can find a new hobby.
Also, what method could he have used where all the elements were obtained legally and it was this easy to carry out?
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
It surprises me the number of people here who do not understand mental illness
that can only look at the killer as though he was just like them, in his right mind.
And if he was in his right mind the whole time, a smiling monster, tons more would
be dead and wounded.
It's ok to hate him, if that's what you feel, how you deal.
I hate the men who terrorized the family a couple years back,
raped the women, a young daughter, killed the women,
left the dad for dead, set fire to the home.
To me that was pure evil, absolute joy in the hands on torment
and suffering of another human being. The sick satisfying sexual enjoyment
of raping a young girl. Listening to her pleads and cries, watching the
fathers hellish anguish.
Some may say I don't know this man's motives, this is true of course.
I can only conclude from my own feelings, as others have.
I have stated what I feel of this young man.
I have empathy because I know mental illness and know how next to impossible
it is to get help until after someone is hurt, either themselves or at their hands,
when that changes we will have real change.
I have heard more than one victim say they have empathy for the killer too.
Now there is an understanding heart.
What can we take from this of value? Maybe just that, a heart that is more understanding.
Good lord. Yah, we're all a bunch of clods with cold hearts incapable of love- definitely below you and that one other person on this thread.
We understand mental illness. Duh. We just don't give a shit. Ill, drunk, mad, sad... whatever has a person move to large scale violence places them in the category of: 'piece of shit'.
In a similar vein, your argument would absolve the alcoholic from mowing down a mother and child at a crosswalk ("You guys are stupid. Don't you understand alcoholism? He's sober now. ")... or Sandusky ("He was sick. He's gotten therapy to assist him overcome his poor past.")... or the junkie who stabs an old lady and takes her purse with $7 in it ("What's with you guys? Don't you understand addiction. He was in pain and needed a fix. He's better now.")... you can excuse every horrible action if you really wanted to. I'll go on no further other than to state it is the bleeding hearts that allow for levels of patience and understanding that, quite frankly, mainstream society is completely exhausted with.
Your position is a strange one to take. People are outraged. Very very angry and sad. Your insistence that this mutant is the real victim here borders on offensive. Very little tact displayed here, Pandora. It's my feel that your comments are in very poor taste.
And, can you stop entering after every sentence? I keep thinking I'm reading a poem when I read your posts.
Humm, there is an assumption that this guy has a mental illness as people cant comprehend that maybe he wanted to do this. Yes mental health systems most places are poor and people look back and say that people should have helped before someone does something like this but at the end of the day I dont think this all lies with mental illness.
This was premeditated for months, stockpiling weapons and bomb stuff. He rigged his apartment and then calmly wnt and shot those people. Yes maybe now hes claiming mental illness, just like anders brevik did afterwards, and maybe people will accept that as it is easier to take than believing he just wanted to do it! but I think overall maybe people have devalued life and it doesnt take a mental illness for someone to wipe someone else out.
Lets be realistic down through history massacres have taken place, everyone says hitler was mad, but there were plenty willing to carry out his instructions.
I think there are just some people willing to do stuff like this because they are evil.
gun collectors are for the most part, fucked in the head. sure some are ok decent folks. others? not so much.
having a bleeding heart, feeling sorry for this maniac is absurd
who the hell needs to own $30,000-$50,000 in guns? many ppl around here (rural iowa) own a lot of guns. practically every household houses at least one gun. i know of ppl who own so many guns it would be impossible for me to guess at the number and to guess at the lifetime's money spent on their collection.
they are not dangerous like this freak-show here but they sure aren't right either. it's a fucking waste of time & money
Humm, there is an assumption that this guy has a mental illness as people cant comprehend that maybe he wanted to do this. Yes mental health systems most places are poor and people look back and say that people should have helped before someone does something like this but at the end of the day I dont think this all lies with mental illness.This was premeditated for months, stockpiling weapons and bomb stuff. He rigged his apartment and then calmly wnt and shot those people. Yes maybe now hes claiming mental illness, just like anders brevik did afterwards, and maybe people will accept that as it is easier to take than believing he just wanted to do it! but I think overall maybe people have devalued life and it doesnt take a mental illness for someone to wipe someone else out.
Lets be realistic down through history massacres have taken place, everyone says hitler was mad, but there were plenty willing to carry out his instructions.
I think there are just some people willing to do stuff like this because they are evil.
thank you. thank you. & thank you.
he aint mentally ill. he is flat out a monster. this was a game for him, that is all. to him life has no meaning. he has no cares about murdering everyone. his blood pressure probably did not even elevate nor his pulse.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I don't give a damn if this guy was in his right mind (whatever that is) or not. He planned out this shit, took lives, and would've taken more if his assault rifle hadn't jammed.
As was mentioned earlier as it relates to pedophiles and others I consider sick fucks...of course some path brought them to where they are/were, and while I'm sorry that something(s) horrible played a part in their lives, it's not an excuse.
It surprises me the number of people here who do not understand mental illness
that can only look at the killer as though he was just like them, in his right mind.
And if he was in his right mind the whole time, a smiling monster, tons more would
be dead and wounded.
It's ok to hate him, if that's what you feel, how you deal.
I hate the men who terrorized the family a couple years back,
raped the women, a young daughter, killed the women,
left the dad for dead, set fire to the home.
To me that was pure evil, absolute joy in the hands on torment
and suffering of another human being. The sick satisfying sexual enjoyment
of raping a young girl. Listening to her pleads and cries, watching the
fathers hellish anguish.
Some may say I don't know this man's motives, this is true of course.
I can only conclude from my own feelings, as others have.
I have stated what I feel of this young man.
I have empathy because I know mental illness and know how next to impossible
it is to get help until after someone is hurt, either themselves or at their hands,
when that changes we will have real change.
I have heard more than one victim say they have empathy for the killer too.
Now there is an understanding heart.
What can we take from this of value? Maybe just that, a heart that is more understanding.
Good lord. Yah, we're all a bunch of clods with cold hearts incapable of love- definitely below you and that one other person on this thread.
We understand mental illness. Duh. We just don't give a shit. Ill, drunk, mad, sad... whatever has a person move to large scale violence places them in the category of: 'piece of shit'.
In a similar vein, your argument would absolve the alcoholic from mowing down a mother and child at a crosswalk ("You guys are stupid. Don't you understand alcoholism? He's sober now. ")... or Sandusky ("He was sick. He's gotten therapy to assist him overcome his poor past.")... or the junkie who stabs an old lady and takes her purse with $7 in it ("What's with you guys? Don't you understand addiction. He was in pain and needed a fix. He's better now.")... you can excuse every horrible action if you really wanted to. I'll go on no further other than to state it is the bleeding hearts that allow for levels of patience and understanding that, quite frankly, mainstream society is completely exhausted with.
Your position is a strange one to take. People are outraged. Very very angry and sad. Your insistence that this mutant is the real victim here borders on offensive. Very little tact displayed here, Pandora. It's my feel that your comments are in very poor taste.
And, can you stop entering after every sentence? I keep thinking I'm reading a poem when I read your posts.
Thank you very much I will compose my posts as I see fit
you are free of course to not read them if you find them that troubling.
A poem can always do a heart well I might add.
So you conclude I am not outraged at the loss of life...
that I am not sad and angry... how do you come to this conclusion?
is this because I can also show empathy for the person committing the crime?
It is unusual for me to do so but it is so very obvious he himself is a victim also.
I think your presumptions of me and what I think of child molesters,
DUI's or criminals preying on other human beings for their own gain,
are very telling of you.
Is seems you are assuming much of me with knowing little, wouldn't you say?
Not really good debate form... assuming of others.
You would be so very wrong in all cases / examples you have given.
Even as mentally unstable he was he was still sane enough to be able to key word here PURCHASE 4 WEAPONS IN A SPAN OF 4MONTHS , don't you think if we would of had laws in place to prevent these purchases some lives could of been saved ......
No I do not, he would have used a different method is all.
He is not sane, not then, not when he was firing shots, not now
but many sane people collect guns, perhaps even a weapon a month,
that does not make them a danger. It is mental illness that can make a person
a danger to others.
Attack the real problem with your giant letters and make some real change.
Again, why can't we do both. Work on mental health and gun control?
I don't really care about gun collectors. My dad is a gun collector. They can find a new hobby.
Also, what method could he have used where all the elements were obtained legally and it was this easy to carry out?
Gun control will not stop mass shootings.
Mental health readily available will be an aid but will not stop mass killings.
As far as methods I think your imagination can work as well as mine, as well as
anyone's who is bent on taking life.
Hey what was up with the needles in the food from the flights from Amsterdam...
good thing they weren't dipped in something deadly or even contagious.
You've personalized my comment. I never stated that I felt you were not outraged at loss of life. I assumed nothing of you other than you spoke of your position as, say, 'a little richer' than mine. As well, I suggested that your position might be better received at a different time when the wounds were at least a little dry.
I referred to your argument that this man's mental illness was an acceptable alibi for his actions and presented some other examples that would at the very least appear to be very close to this way of thinking- these scenarios had nothing to do with what I assumed of you. You missed this point though and that, I would suggest, is not great debating form.
Let's get honest here, it's not exactly as if you take the high road on every occasion: earlier you poked fun at someone for their large letters.
You're on an island here... and you had to know you would be. How are you going to convince anyone that we should empathize with this guy? No problems here though. You are welcome to your position.
people in high places are still saying that if more people in the theater were armed that the killer MIGHT have been stopped with no evidence to support it....
this is a post from page 6 that nobody has addressed, and i am curious to see what the pro-gun people think about it, since nobody said anything the first time i posted it..... i think having more people with guns in that theater would have only created more death and more chaos....
Re: Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings
by gimmesometruth27 » 20 Jul 2012 17:23
i love how people are saying "more guns would have saved those people"....
this is hypothetical at best, and i am not dealing with hypotheticals.
imagine this scenario.
you are sitting in a sold out, packed to the gills, dark movie theater. you are sitting there with your "small" bag of huge popcorn and have a large soda in the cupholder near your right hand expecting to see the greatest movie of the summer. you are thinking "this is so awesome!" you might be on a date, or sitting with your niece, or sitting next to your parents or best friend... all of a sudden you hear a small "pop" and you smell the smell and see the sight of gas wafting throughout the theater. then a man in army grade body armor from head to toe, a helmet, and a gas mask comes in and starts shooting people with multiple guns. the people behind you, the people in front of you.... your eyes are watering from the gas and you are in sheer terror as the gunman draws near shooting in random directions, in the DARK, at random people. people are lying there bleeding to death, some are already dead, some are running for their lives, climbing over each other, knocking each other over in attempt to save themselves. sheer and utter chaos ensues...
in that situation, how can anyone honestly say that one or more people could calmly stand up, find the shooter in the dark, get him and him alone in their gun sights, with watery eyes effected by the tear gas, people scurrying about all around them, and shoot him to stop the assault?
i am betting that if you introduce more guns into that situation you are going to have more victims, because shooting at a moving target, while you are terrified, in the dark, with teargas in the confined space, is going to miss his target at least once and hit someone else. this situation is the most challenging scenario to shoot a handgun and hit a target, even for the most accurate marksmen.
i don't buy the argument that more guns could have stopped this tragedy. i am sorry, but i can't believe that at all..
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
It surprises me the number of people here who do not understand mental illness
that can only look at the killer as though he was just like them, in his right mind.
And if he was in his right mind the whole time, a smiling monster, tons more would
be dead and wounded.
It's ok to hate him, if that's what you feel, how you deal.
I hate the men who terrorized the family a couple years back,
raped the women, a young daughter, killed the women,
left the dad for dead, set fire to the home.
To me that was pure evil, absolute joy in the hands on torment
and suffering of another human being. The sick satisfying sexual enjoyment
of raping a young girl. Listening to her pleads and cries, watching the
fathers hellish anguish.
Some may say I don't know this man's motives, this is true of course.
I can only conclude from my own feelings, as others have.
I have stated what I feel of this young man.
I have empathy because I know mental illness and know how next to impossible
it is to get help until after someone is hurt, either themselves or at their hands,
when that changes we will have real change.
I have heard more than one victim say they have empathy for the killer too.
Now there is an understanding heart.
What can we take from this of value? Maybe just that, a heart that is more understanding.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Once again assuming you know and understand more than very one else.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The access to guns in the US is really scary. Assault rifles and hand guns? Why? I can understand people owning a hunting rifle or a shot gun for hunting... but what purpose does an assault rifle serve other than killing people? Who hunts with a handgun?
How can one argue that fewer guns (and absolutely no automatic or semi-automatic guns) would not make a difference with regards to gun related homicides and these types of events?
I feel awful for those people in the theater... and shame on those (such as the NRA) that have consistently and defiantly and sometimes even tastelessly stood in the way of legislation that just may have kept these victims safe from the weapons that took their lives. If a person wants a really cool gun, they should be able to have it- regardless of any national tragedy that consistently rears its head?
Remember, when your constitution was written, there might have been a legitimate need for weapons. Times have changed.
as far as I know assualt rifles are ilegal but anyway I was just watching cnn .....Jesse jackson is an idiot..a freakin grand stander with the active brain cells of a rock, bottom line I am aginst any gun laws that restrict citizens from owning a gun ...unless they are convicted fellons or mently challenged with violent behavior, when something like this happens the death penality right away, no shrinks no ple-deals no long drug out trials..straight to the death chamber ! period......thats my rant
Godfather.
The rifle he used would have been illegal under the expired assault weapons ban.
Today, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg called on the President and Governor Romney to address gun violence, saying “maybe it’s time that the two people who want to be President of the United States stand up and tell us what they are going to do about it, because this is obviously a problem across the country.”
they wont touch this with a ten foot pole....as well they should not, would you bring this rant up during a interview for a job...say as a city offical ? smart money would address it after the election.
so when is the appropriate time to properly discuss gun laws and the possibility of tightening them?
how many more events such as this one will it take? how many more deaths and maimings will it take before someone on the right says "ok, i have had enough, let's take a good hard look at gun crime and the gun laws that allow it to happen"???
you might call me unreasonable for having repeatedly said "enough is enough" and that some of these large magazines and assault weapons serve no purpose other than to hunt people and to kill and we need to evaluate their legality and the lax laws that allow people to get them.... it is time we evaluate their legality. i say you are unreasonable for refusing to allow a dialogue....
so where do we go from here?
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
people in high places are still saying that if more people in the theater were armed that the killer MIGHT have been stopped with no evidence to support it....
this is a post from page 6 that nobody has addressed, and i am curious to see what the pro-gun people think about it, since nobody said anything the first time i posted it..... i think having more people with guns in that theater would have only created more death and more chaos....
Re: Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings
by gimmesometruth27 » 20 Jul 2012 17:23
i love how people are saying "more guns would have saved those people"....
this is hypothetical at best, and i am not dealing with hypotheticals.
imagine this scenario.
you are sitting in a sold out, packed to the gills, dark movie theater. you are sitting there with your "small" bag of huge popcorn and have a large soda in the cupholder near your right hand expecting to see the greatest movie of the summer. you are thinking "this is so awesome!" you might be on a date, or sitting with your niece, or sitting next to your parents or best friend... all of a sudden you hear a small "pop" and you smell the smell and see the sight of gas wafting throughout the theater. then a man in army grade body armor from head to toe, a helmet, and a gas mask comes in and starts shooting people with multiple guns. the people behind you, the people in front of you.... your eyes are watering from the gas and you are in sheer terror as the gunman draws near shooting in random directions, in the DARK, at random people. people are lying there bleeding to death, some are already dead, some are running for their lives, climbing over each other, knocking each other over in attempt to save themselves. sheer and utter chaos ensues...
in that situation, how can anyone honestly say that one or more people could calmly stand up, find the shooter in the dark, get him and him alone in their gun sights, with watery eyes effected by the tear gas, people scurrying about all around them, and shoot him to stop the assault?
i am betting that if you introduce more guns into that situation you are going to have more victims, because shooting at a moving target, while you are terrified, in the dark, with teargas in the confined space, is going to miss his target at least once and hit someone else. this situation is the most challenging scenario to shoot a handgun and hit a target, even for the most accurate marksmen.
i don't buy the argument that more guns could have stopped this tragedy. i am sorry, but i can't believe that at all..
I'd throw my date/wife to the floor lay over and cover her then draw my weapon wait till he was in sight and then smoke that piece of shit.. aim for the head first if he looks garbed in bullet proof clothing.
so when is the appropriate time to properly discuss gun laws and the possibility of tightening them?
how many more events such as this one will it take? how many more deaths and maimings will it take before someone on the right says "ok, i have had enough, let's take a good hard look at gun crime and the gun laws that allow it to happen"???
you might call me unreasonable for having repeatedly said "enough is enough" and that some of these large magazines and assault weapons serve no purpose other than to hunt people and to kill and we need to evaluate their legality and the lax laws that allow people to get them.... it is time we evaluate their legality. i say you are unreasonable for refusing to allow a dialogue....
so where do we go from here?
I asked the same thing yesterday. What's the body count that leads to change? Did he need to kill 100 people in that theater? 1,000?
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
people in high places are still saying that if more people in the theater were armed that the killer MIGHT have been stopped with no evidence to support it....
this is a post from page 6 that nobody has addressed, and i am curious to see what the pro-gun people think about it, since nobody said anything the first time i posted it..... i think having more people with guns in that theater would have only created more death and more chaos....
Re: Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings
by gimmesometruth27 » 20 Jul 2012 17:23
i love how people are saying "more guns would have saved those people"....
this is hypothetical at best, and i am not dealing with hypotheticals.
imagine this scenario.
you are sitting in a sold out, packed to the gills, dark movie theater. you are sitting there with your "small" bag of huge popcorn and have a large soda in the cupholder near your right hand expecting to see the greatest movie of the summer. you are thinking "this is so awesome!" you might be on a date, or sitting with your niece, or sitting next to your parents or best friend... all of a sudden you hear a small "pop" and you smell the smell and see the sight of gas wafting throughout the theater. then a man in army grade body armor from head to toe, a helmet, and a gas mask comes in and starts shooting people with multiple guns. the people behind you, the people in front of you.... your eyes are watering from the gas and you are in sheer terror as the gunman draws near shooting in random directions, in the DARK, at random people. people are lying there bleeding to death, some are already dead, some are running for their lives, climbing over each other, knocking each other over in attempt to save themselves. sheer and utter chaos ensues...
in that situation, how can anyone honestly say that one or more people could calmly stand up, find the shooter in the dark, get him and him alone in their gun sights, with watery eyes effected by the tear gas, people scurrying about all around them, and shoot him to stop the assault?
i am betting that if you introduce more guns into that situation you are going to have more victims, because shooting at a moving target, while you are terrified, in the dark, with teargas in the confined space, is going to miss his target at least once and hit someone else. this situation is the most challenging scenario to shoot a handgun and hit a target, even for the most accurate marksmen.
i don't buy the argument that more guns could have stopped this tragedy. i am sorry, but i can't believe that at all..
I'd throw my date/wife to the floor lay over and cover her then draw my weapon wait till he was in sight and then smoke that piece of shit.. aim for the head first if he looks garbed in bullet proof clothing.
Godfather.
He had a helmet on too as well as a throat guard. Unless you're fucking iron man good luck. Also, I hope you're immune to tear gas.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
so when is the appropriate time to properly discuss gun laws and the possibility of tightening them?
how many more events such as this one will it take? how many more deaths and maimings will it take before someone on the right says "ok, i have had enough, let's take a good hard look at gun crime and the gun laws that allow it to happen"???
you might call me unreasonable for having repeatedly said "enough is enough" and that some of these large magazines and assault weapons serve no purpose other than to hunt people and to kill and we need to evaluate their legality and the lax laws that allow people to get them.... it is time we evaluate their legality. i say you are unreasonable for refusing to allow a dialogue....
so where do we go from here?
I asked the same thing yesterday. What's the body count that leads to change? Did he need to kill 100 people in that theater? 1,000?
i just want to know what these gun supporters think the magic number is and when is the appropriate time....
i think i know the answer and it will be "never!", but if the right was smart they would want to have that discussion now, in this election year, and they would want to have obama and romney debate it, because i think romney would gain some support by having that dialogue now...
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
"Jeez I just wanted to make sure that we had a strong militia in case those uppity British decided to take our country back! I never wanted the average schmo to become their own Rambo!" - Thomas Jefferson
so when is the appropriate time to properly discuss gun laws and the possibility of tightening them?
how many more events such as this one will it take? how many more deaths and maimings will it take before someone on the right says "ok, i have had enough, let's take a good hard look at gun crime and the gun laws that allow it to happen"???
you might call me unreasonable for having repeatedly said "enough is enough" and that some of these large magazines and assault weapons serve no purpose other than to hunt people and to kill and we need to evaluate their legality and the lax laws that allow people to get them.... it is time we evaluate their legality. i say you are unreasonable for refusing to allow a dialogue....
so where do we go from here?
sorry I don't believe punishing the masses for the crimes of a few is the correct answer, harsher laws for crimes committed with guns is an option,as I said before no long drug out trials no ple-deals no bullshit just exacute right away, no going after the cops for eleminating a problem,no shrinks,no multi million dollar defense team long drug out time on death row, when there is undisputable proof as in this case there is no need for all the leagle bullshit...red tape that sets a criminal on death row for 20 years,no courts to challenge un-humain death process,1 to 2 bullets to the head..game over.
so when is the appropriate time to properly discuss gun laws and the possibility of tightening them?
how many more events such as this one will it take? how many more deaths and maimings will it take before someone on the right says "ok, i have had enough, let's take a good hard look at gun crime and the gun laws that allow it to happen"???
you might call me unreasonable for having repeatedly said "enough is enough" and that some of these large magazines and assault weapons serve no purpose other than to hunt people and to kill and we need to evaluate their legality and the lax laws that allow people to get them.... it is time we evaluate their legality. i say you are unreasonable for refusing to allow a dialogue....
so where do we go from here?
sorry I don't believe punishing the masses for the crimes of a few is the correct answer, harsher laws for crimes committed with guns is an option,as I said before no long drug out trials no ple-deals no bullshit just exacute right away, no going after the cops for eleminating a problem,no shrinks,no multi million dollar defense team long drug out time on death row, when there is undisputable proof as in this case there is no need for all the leagle bullshit...red tape that sets a criminal on death row for 20 years,no courts to challenge un-humain death process,1 to 2 bullets to the head..game over.
Godfather.
i don't know what is more disturbing, that you are seem to be promoting ending due process for criminals or that your suggestion does absolutely nothing to address the actual problem, which is access to military grade weapons and 100 round magazines, etc...
fuck it....i as a private citizen, want a rpg launcher and a drone. not because i necessarily need it for anything, but only because the 2nd amendment says i can have it...
:fp: :fp:
and the kicker is that the brady bill, which expired under bush II, had this rifle illegal to own and purchase up until 2004...
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
so when is the appropriate time to properly discuss gun laws and the possibility of tightening them?
how many more events such as this one will it take? how many more deaths and maimings will it take before someone on the right says "ok, i have had enough, let's take a good hard look at gun crime and the gun laws that allow it to happen"???
you might call me unreasonable for having repeatedly said "enough is enough" and that some of these large magazines and assault weapons serve no purpose other than to hunt people and to kill and we need to evaluate their legality and the lax laws that allow people to get them.... it is time we evaluate their legality. i say you are unreasonable for refusing to allow a dialogue....
so where do we go from here?
sorry I don't believe punishing the masses for the crimes of a few is the correct answer, harsher laws for crimes committed with guns is an option,as I said before no long drug out trials no ple-deals no bullshit just exacute right away, no going after the cops for eleminating a problem,no shrinks,no multi million dollar defense team long drug out time on death row, when there is undisputable proof as in this case there is no need for all the leagle bullshit...red tape that sets a criminal on death row for 20 years,no courts to challenge un-humain death process,1 to 2 bullets to the head..game over.
Godfather.
When has one of these guys ever had a multi million dollar defense fund? Usually they kill themselves anyway.
I think a lot of us would rather learn why these things happen rather than just killing them. Violence breeds more violence.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
so when is the appropriate time to properly discuss gun laws and the possibility of tightening them?
how many more events such as this one will it take? how many more deaths and maimings will it take before someone on the right says "ok, i have had enough, let's take a good hard look at gun crime and the gun laws that allow it to happen"???
you might call me unreasonable for having repeatedly said "enough is enough" and that some of these large magazines and assault weapons serve no purpose other than to hunt people and to kill and we need to evaluate their legality and the lax laws that allow people to get them.... it is time we evaluate their legality. i say you are unreasonable for refusing to allow a dialogue....
so where do we go from here?
sorry I don't believe punishing the masses for the crimes of a few is the correct answer, harsher laws for crimes committed with guns is an option,as I said before no long drug out trials no ple-deals no bullshit just exacute right away, no going after the cops for eleminating a problem,no shrinks,no multi million dollar defense team long drug out time on death row, when there is undisputable proof as in this case there is no need for all the leagle bullshit...red tape that sets a criminal on death row for 20 years,no courts to challenge un-humain death process,1 to 2 bullets to the head..game over.
Godfather.
i don't know what is more disturbing, that you are seem to be promoting ending due process for criminals or that your suggestion does absolutely nothing to address the actual problem, which is access to military grade weapons and 100 round magazines, etc...
fuck it....i as a private citizen, want a rpg launcher and a drone. not because i necessarily need it for anything, but only because the 2nd amendment says i can have it...
:fp: :fp:
and the kicker is that the brady bill, which expired under bush II, had this rifle illegal to own and purchase up until 2004...
Good point on the due process thing. You stand behind the constitution on the right to bear arms but completely shit on the right to a fair trial. Hypocrisy at its finest.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I wish mental health care were as easy to get as, say, a gun. - Andy Borowitz
+1
it says something about a society where we are willing to cut programs to help save lives such as those for the poor and those suffering from mental illness in the name of balancing a budget, yet it is taboo to even have a discussion about guns and the 2nd amendment when that right allows for a huge number of injuries and deaths in a month.
this IS idiocracy....
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I wish mental health care were as easy to get as, say, a gun. - Andy Borowitz
that says all..thanks Tim..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
You've personalized my comment. I never stated that I felt you were not outraged at loss of life. I assumed nothing of you other than you spoke of your position as, say, 'a little richer' than mine. As well, I suggested that your position might be better received at a different time when the wounds were at least a little dry.
I referred to your argument that this man's mental illness was an acceptable alibi for his actions and presented some other examples that would at the very least appear to be very close to this way of thinking- these scenarios had nothing to do with what I assumed of you. You missed this point though and that, I would suggest, is not great debating form.
Let's get honest here, it's not exactly as if you take the high road on every occasion: earlier you poked fun at someone for their large letters.
You're on an island here... and you had to know you would be. How are you going to convince anyone that we should empathize with this guy? No problems here though. You are welcome to your position.
Good lord. Yah, we're all a bunch of clods with cold hearts incapable of love- definitely below you and that one other person on this thread.
We understand mental illness. Duh. We just don't give a shit. Ill, drunk, mad, sad... whatever has a person move to large scale violence places them in the category of: 'piece of shit'.
In a similar vein, your argument would absolve the alcoholic from mowing down a mother and child at a crosswalk ("You guys are stupid. Don't you understand alcoholism? He's sober now. ")... or Sandusky ("He was sick. He's gotten therapy to assist him overcome his poor past.")... or the junkie who stabs an old lady and takes her purse with $7 in it ("What's with you guys? Don't you understand addiction. He was in pain and needed a fix. He's better now.")... you can excuse every horrible action if you really wanted to. I'll go on no further other than to state it is the bleeding hearts that allow for levels of patience and understanding that, quite frankly, mainstream society is completely exhausted with.
Your position is a strange one to take. People are outraged. Very very angry and sad. Your insistence that this mutant is the real victim here borders on offensive. Very little tact displayed here, Pandora. It's my feel that your comments are in very poor taste.
And, can you stop entering after every sentence? I keep thinking I'm reading a poem when I read your posts.
No you personalized and made your post all about me
and it was insulting, incredibly judgmental and presumptuous besides being so far off target
and against posting guidelines.
There are many, even some victims of this heinous crime, that have empathy for him
because of mental illness.
Have you ever known anyone close to you with schizophrenia?
Have you seen results from the disease?
Have you seen trauma caused by the disease?
If this was a war vet would you accept his insanity better?
And for some one who said excuse... no it is not an excuse it is the cause.
Comments
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Again, why can't we do both. Work on mental health and gun control?
I don't really care about gun collectors. My dad is a gun collector. They can find a new hobby.
Also, what method could he have used where all the elements were obtained legally and it was this easy to carry out?
Good lord. Yah, we're all a bunch of clods with cold hearts incapable of love- definitely below you and that one other person on this thread.
We understand mental illness. Duh. We just don't give a shit. Ill, drunk, mad, sad... whatever has a person move to large scale violence places them in the category of: 'piece of shit'.
In a similar vein, your argument would absolve the alcoholic from mowing down a mother and child at a crosswalk ("You guys are stupid. Don't you understand alcoholism? He's sober now. ")... or Sandusky ("He was sick. He's gotten therapy to assist him overcome his poor past.")... or the junkie who stabs an old lady and takes her purse with $7 in it ("What's with you guys? Don't you understand addiction. He was in pain and needed a fix. He's better now.")... you can excuse every horrible action if you really wanted to. I'll go on no further other than to state it is the bleeding hearts that allow for levels of patience and understanding that, quite frankly, mainstream society is completely exhausted with.
Your position is a strange one to take. People are outraged. Very very angry and sad. Your insistence that this mutant is the real victim here borders on offensive. Very little tact displayed here, Pandora. It's my feel that your comments are in very poor taste.
And, can you stop entering after every sentence? I keep thinking I'm reading a poem when I read your posts.
This was premeditated for months, stockpiling weapons and bomb stuff. He rigged his apartment and then calmly wnt and shot those people. Yes maybe now hes claiming mental illness, just like anders brevik did afterwards, and maybe people will accept that as it is easier to take than believing he just wanted to do it! but I think overall maybe people have devalued life and it doesnt take a mental illness for someone to wipe someone else out.
Lets be realistic down through history massacres have taken place, everyone says hitler was mad, but there were plenty willing to carry out his instructions.
I think there are just some people willing to do stuff like this because they are evil.
having a bleeding heart, feeling sorry for this maniac is absurd
who the hell needs to own $30,000-$50,000 in guns? many ppl around here (rural iowa) own a lot of guns. practically every household houses at least one gun. i know of ppl who own so many guns it would be impossible for me to guess at the number and to guess at the lifetime's money spent on their collection.
they are not dangerous like this freak-show here but they sure aren't right either. it's a fucking waste of time & money
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
he aint mentally ill. he is flat out a monster. this was a game for him, that is all. to him life has no meaning. he has no cares about murdering everyone. his blood pressure probably did not even elevate nor his pulse.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
As was mentioned earlier as it relates to pedophiles and others I consider sick fucks...of course some path brought them to where they are/were, and while I'm sorry that something(s) horrible played a part in their lives, it's not an excuse.
It's a reason, sure. But not an excuse.
So nope, no empathy from me.
you are free of course to not read them if you find them that troubling.
A poem can always do a heart well I might add.
So you conclude I am not outraged at the loss of life...
that I am not sad and angry... how do you come to this conclusion?
is this because I can also show empathy for the person committing the crime?
It is unusual for me to do so but it is so very obvious he himself is a victim also.
I think your presumptions of me and what I think of child molesters,
DUI's or criminals preying on other human beings for their own gain,
are very telling of you.
Is seems you are assuming much of me with knowing little, wouldn't you say?
Not really good debate form... assuming of others.
You would be so very wrong in all cases / examples you have given.
Mental health readily available will be an aid but will not stop mass killings.
As far as methods I think your imagination can work as well as mine, as well as
anyone's who is bent on taking life.
Hey what was up with the needles in the food from the flights from Amsterdam...
good thing they weren't dipped in something deadly or even contagious.
:fp:
who thinks this stuff up?
I referred to your argument that this man's mental illness was an acceptable alibi for his actions and presented some other examples that would at the very least appear to be very close to this way of thinking- these scenarios had nothing to do with what I assumed of you. You missed this point though and that, I would suggest, is not great debating form.
Let's get honest here, it's not exactly as if you take the high road on every occasion: earlier you poked fun at someone for their large letters.
You're on an island here... and you had to know you would be. How are you going to convince anyone that we should empathize with this guy? No problems here though. You are welcome to your position.
Do you think these types of assault rifles should be legal?
this is a post from page 6 that nobody has addressed, and i am curious to see what the pro-gun people think about it, since nobody said anything the first time i posted it..... i think having more people with guns in that theater would have only created more death and more chaos....
Re: Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings
by gimmesometruth27 » 20 Jul 2012 17:23
i love how people are saying "more guns would have saved those people"....
this is hypothetical at best, and i am not dealing with hypotheticals.
imagine this scenario.
you are sitting in a sold out, packed to the gills, dark movie theater. you are sitting there with your "small" bag of huge popcorn and have a large soda in the cupholder near your right hand expecting to see the greatest movie of the summer. you are thinking "this is so awesome!" you might be on a date, or sitting with your niece, or sitting next to your parents or best friend... all of a sudden you hear a small "pop" and you smell the smell and see the sight of gas wafting throughout the theater. then a man in army grade body armor from head to toe, a helmet, and a gas mask comes in and starts shooting people with multiple guns. the people behind you, the people in front of you.... your eyes are watering from the gas and you are in sheer terror as the gunman draws near shooting in random directions, in the DARK, at random people. people are lying there bleeding to death, some are already dead, some are running for their lives, climbing over each other, knocking each other over in attempt to save themselves. sheer and utter chaos ensues...
in that situation, how can anyone honestly say that one or more people could calmly stand up, find the shooter in the dark, get him and him alone in their gun sights, with watery eyes effected by the tear gas, people scurrying about all around them, and shoot him to stop the assault?
i am betting that if you introduce more guns into that situation you are going to have more victims, because shooting at a moving target, while you are terrified, in the dark, with teargas in the confined space, is going to miss his target at least once and hit someone else. this situation is the most challenging scenario to shoot a handgun and hit a target, even for the most accurate marksmen.
i don't buy the argument that more guns could have stopped this tragedy. i am sorry, but i can't believe that at all..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Once again assuming you know and understand more than very one else.
they wont touch this with a ten foot pole....as well they should not, would you bring this rant up during a interview for a job...say as a city offical ? smart money would address it after the election.
Godfather.
how many more events such as this one will it take? how many more deaths and maimings will it take before someone on the right says "ok, i have had enough, let's take a good hard look at gun crime and the gun laws that allow it to happen"???
you might call me unreasonable for having repeatedly said "enough is enough" and that some of these large magazines and assault weapons serve no purpose other than to hunt people and to kill and we need to evaluate their legality and the lax laws that allow people to get them.... it is time we evaluate their legality. i say you are unreasonable for refusing to allow a dialogue....
so where do we go from here?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I'd throw my date/wife to the floor lay over and cover her then draw my weapon wait till he was in sight and then smoke that piece of shit.. aim for the head first if he looks garbed in bullet proof clothing.
Godfather.
I asked the same thing yesterday. What's the body count that leads to change? Did he need to kill 100 people in that theater? 1,000?
He had a helmet on too as well as a throat guard. Unless you're fucking iron man good luck. Also, I hope you're immune to tear gas.
i think i know the answer and it will be "never!", but if the right was smart they would want to have that discussion now, in this election year, and they would want to have obama and romney debate it, because i think romney would gain some support by having that dialogue now...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
sorry I don't believe punishing the masses for the crimes of a few is the correct answer, harsher laws for crimes committed with guns is an option,as I said before no long drug out trials no ple-deals no bullshit just exacute right away, no going after the cops for eleminating a problem,no shrinks,no multi million dollar defense team long drug out time on death row, when there is undisputable proof as in this case there is no need for all the leagle bullshit...red tape that sets a criminal on death row for 20 years,no courts to challenge un-humain death process,1 to 2 bullets to the head..game over.
Godfather.
fuck it....i as a private citizen, want a rpg launcher and a drone. not because i necessarily need it for anything, but only because the 2nd amendment says i can have it...
:fp: :fp:
and the kicker is that the brady bill, which expired under bush II, had this rifle illegal to own and purchase up until 2004...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
When has one of these guys ever had a multi million dollar defense fund? Usually they kill themselves anyway.
I think a lot of us would rather learn why these things happen rather than just killing them. Violence breeds more violence.
Good point on the due process thing. You stand behind the constitution on the right to bear arms but completely shit on the right to a fair trial. Hypocrisy at its finest.
it says something about a society where we are willing to cut programs to help save lives such as those for the poor and those suffering from mental illness in the name of balancing a budget, yet it is taboo to even have a discussion about guns and the 2nd amendment when that right allows for a huge number of injuries and deaths in a month.
this IS idiocracy....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Perfect.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
No you personalized and made your post all about me
and it was insulting, incredibly judgmental and presumptuous besides being so far off target
and against posting guidelines.
There are many, even some victims of this heinous crime, that have empathy for him
because of mental illness.
Have you ever known anyone close to you with schizophrenia?
Have you seen results from the disease?
Have you seen trauma caused by the disease?
If this was a war vet would you accept his insanity better?
And for some one who said excuse... no it is not an excuse it is the cause.