Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

kenny olav

Fifi_Ireland, I appreciate that the original post had nothing to do with guns... but I don't think you should be surprised that it turned into a discussion about guns... how else would this have happened? A bomb? Possible, but to have a bomb or any other weapon that could kill so many people at once would be illegal. The guns this troubled young man used were legal.... it was much too easy for him to do what he did... which is why it was the sixth mass shooting this year alone in the US.

I agree with you about bringing young kids to a violent movie... I've seen it many times, and I don't get it either.

Fifi_Ireland

I understand what you are saying, but the point I am making is that its the morals and lack of respect for life that is leading to these acts rather than the fact people have guns. If you raise peoples respect for each other then they will turn away from violent acts and consider the consequences of what they are doing more.

I'm pretty sure that at least 14 people were beaten to death/ died from random acts of violence yesterday in the US and this wont be commented on at all its just that guns are a contencious issue in the US and theres more than one victim involved that has this particular act in the media!

The focus needs to be taken away from the weapons and a look at values done instead. If all guns were taken away tomorrow people would still be killed by random stuff like this as these people will turn to a different weapon!

kenny olav

Fifi_Ireland wrote:

I understand what you are saying, but the point I am making is that its the morals and lack of respect for life that is leading to these acts rather than the fact people have guns. If you raise peoples respect for each other then they will turn away from violent acts and consider the consequences of what they are doing more.

And that's a fine point to make. I think you explain very well what causes violence. I think we need be better at understanding how people lose respect for life, and to reach out to those who appear troubled. But how do we prevent someone who's lost respect for life from shooting people? I think it's easy to prove that there would be less violent crime if there were less guns, and I don't think we should think it's too difficult to begin creating a society with less guns.

Fifi_Ireland

I dont disagree with you but here in Ireland there arent guns and I made the point in my first point someone went to a gig and stabbed 9 people, sure none of them died but its still crazy.
I'm pretty sure we're on the same wavelength in the long run

Thirty Bills Unpaid

The access to guns in the US is really scary. Assault rifles and hand guns? Why? I can understand people owning a hunting rifle or a shot gun for hunting... but what purpose does an assault rifle serve other than killing people? Who hunts with a handgun?

How can one argue that fewer guns (and absolutely no automatic or semi-automatic guns) would not make a difference with regards to gun related homicides and these types of events?

I feel awful for those people in the theater... and shame on those (such as the NRA) that have consistently and defiantly and sometimes even tastelessly stood in the way of legislation that just may have kept these victims safe from the weapons that took their lives. If a person wants a really cool gun, they should be able to have it- regardless of any national tragedy that consistently rears its head?

Remember, when your constitution was written, there might have been a legitimate need for weapons. Times have changed.

Godfather.

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

The access to guns in the US is really scary. Assault rifles and hand guns? Why? I can understand people owning a hunting rifle or a shot gun for hunting... but what purpose does an assault rifle serve other than killing people? Who hunts with a handgun?

How can one argue that fewer guns (and absolutely no automatic or semi-automatic guns) would not make a difference with regards to gun related homicides and these types of events?

I feel awful for those people in the theater... and shame on those (such as the NRA) that have consistently and defiantly and sometimes even tastelessly stood in the way of legislation that just may have kept these victims safe from the weapons that took their lives. If a person wants a really cool gun, they should be able to have it- regardless of any national tragedy that consistently rears its head?

Remember, when your constitution was written, there might have been a legitimate need for weapons. Times have changed.

as far as I know assualt rifles are ilegal but anyway I was just watching cnn .....Jesse jackson is an idiot..a freakin grand stander with the active brain cells of a rock, bottom line I am aginst any gun laws that restrict citizens from owning a gun ...unless they are convicted fellons or mently challenged with violent behavior, when something like this happens the death penality right away, no shrinks no ple-deals no long drug out trials..straight to the death chamber ! period......thats my rant

Godfather.

DriftingByTheStorm

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Remember, when your constitution was written, there might have been a legitimate need for weapons. Times have changed.

I mean, i SORT of take your point.

However one could argue now IS the time for guns.
We have high unemployment and rapidly debasing currency (severely masked by slow-as-molasses velocity of money, but bad enough that UBS is talking about "hyperinflation") ...

I don't want to jump-to-baseless-Nazi-comparisons but this is *functionally* the BEGINNING of a similar climate to Post WWI Germany. Obviously we're physically wrecked by war, though you could make comparisons to the de-industrialization of America and being ruined by war ... and certainly we are saddled with ridiculous debts just like the reparations placed on Germany were ridiculous ... but the point is we are on the verge of entering a socio-political climate similar to the one in which a Dictatorial Regime took control of another once proud country in another era ... and so it COULD be rationally argued that now would be the time for American's to be on guard against tyranny and to keep arms on hand in defense of their liberties.

But hey, like i said, I SORT of take your point.
I know that in THEORY the "good guys" "won" the last real war, and that in THEORY we have ever-increasingly liberalized and democratized world where the notion of having to shoot your way out of Tyranny is just a bad nightmare from a bygone era ... but *functionally* the climate in the western world could arguably be approaching a similar scenario.



ps - and yes, i'm as sick as anyone over this recent event. have been on the verge of tears a few times today just internally reconciling the mass stupidity seemingly everywhere.

gimmesometruth27

i love how people are saying "more guns would have saved those people"....

this is hypothetical at best, and i am not dealing with hypotheticals.

imagine this scenario.

you are sitting in a sold out, packed to the gills, dark movie theater. you are sitting there with your "small" bag of huge popcorn and have a large soda in the cupholder near your right hand expecting to see the greatest movie of the summer. you are thinking "this is so awesome!" you might be on a date, or sitting with your niece, or sitting next to your parents or best friend... all of a sudden you hear a small "pop" and you smell the smell and see the sight of gas wafting throughout the theater. then a man in army grade body armor from head to toe, a helmet, and a gas mask comes in and starts shooting people with multiple guns. the people behind you, the people in front of you.... your eyes are watering from the gas and you are in sheer terror as the gunman draws near shooting in random directions, in the DARK, at random people. people are lying there bleeding to death, some are already dead, some are running for their lives, climbing over each other, knocking each other over in attempt to save themselves. sheer and utter chaos ensues...

in that situation, how can anyone honestly say that one or more people could calmly stand up, find the shooter in the dark, get him and him alone in their gun sights, with watery eyes effected by the tear gas, people scurrying about all around them, and shoot him to stop the assault?

i am betting that if you introduce more guns into that situation you are going to have more victims, because shooting at a moving target, while you are terrified, in the dark, with teargas in the confined space, is going to miss his target at least once and hit someone else. this situation is the most challenging scenario to shoot a handgun and hit a target, even for the most accurate marksmen.

i don't buy the argument that more guns could have stopped this tragedy. i am sorry, but i can't believe that at all..

ComeToTX

Critics that gave less than great reviews of this movie received death threats. What does that say about the thirst for violence in this country?

ComeToTX

Godfather. wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

The access to guns in the US is really scary. Assault rifles and hand guns? Why? I can understand people owning a hunting rifle or a shot gun for hunting... but what purpose does an assault rifle serve other than killing people? Who hunts with a handgun?

How can one argue that fewer guns (and absolutely no automatic or semi-automatic guns) would not make a difference with regards to gun related homicides and these types of events?

I feel awful for those people in the theater... and shame on those (such as the NRA) that have consistently and defiantly and sometimes even tastelessly stood in the way of legislation that just may have kept these victims safe from the weapons that took their lives. If a person wants a really cool gun, they should be able to have it- regardless of any national tragedy that consistently rears its head?

Remember, when your constitution was written, there might have been a legitimate need for weapons. Times have changed.

as far as I know assualt rifles are ilegal but anyway I was just watching cnn .....Jesse jackson is an idiot..a freakin grand stander with the active brain cells of a rock, bottom line I am aginst any gun laws that restrict citizens from owning a gun ...unless they are convicted fellons or mently challenged with violent behavior, when something like this happens the death penality right away, no shrinks no ple-deals no long drug out trials..straight to the death chamber ! period......thats my rant

Godfather.

The rifle he used would have been illegal under the expired assault weapons ban.

Today, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg called on the President and Governor Romney to address gun violence, saying “maybe it’s time that the two people who want to be President of the United States stand up and tell us what they are going to do about it, because this is obviously a problem across the country.”

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Godfather. wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

The access to guns in the US is really scary. Assault rifles and hand guns? Why? I can understand people owning a hunting rifle or a shot gun for hunting... but what purpose does an assault rifle serve other than killing people? Who hunts with a handgun?

How can one argue that fewer guns (and absolutely no automatic or semi-automatic guns) would not make a difference with regards to gun related homicides and these types of events?

I feel awful for those people in the theater... and shame on those (such as the NRA) that have consistently and defiantly and sometimes even tastelessly stood in the way of legislation that just may have kept these victims safe from the weapons that took their lives. If a person wants a really cool gun, they should be able to have it- regardless of any national tragedy that consistently rears its head?

Remember, when your constitution was written, there might have been a legitimate need for weapons. Times have changed.

as far as I know assualt rifles are ilegal but anyway I was just watching cnn .....Jesse jackson is an idiot..a freakin grand stander with the active brain cells of a rock, bottom line I am aginst any gun laws that restrict citizens from owning a gun ...unless they are convicted fellons or mently challenged with violent behavior, when something like this happens the death penality right away, no shrinks no ple-deals no long drug out trials..straight to the death chamber ! period......thats my rant

Godfather.

Well, I'll agree with you regarding the death chamber for this loser.

I'll politely disagree with you regarding restrictions on firearms though.

g under p

Hard to imagine that this guy JH was able to order some of his weapons and ammo over the internet. Do some of you gun lovers and advocates approve of anyone being able to buy these items over the internet?

This to me is more of a major problem in that how do you know as a gun seller to whom are you selling these deadly items to?

Oh let me add the idea of shooting in a dark movie theatre with smoke, maybe tear gas, screaming people running and attempt to shoot the killer.....is a BAD IDEA all together. Instead of becoming a hero you'll probably get shot as the killer instead or end up shooting an innocent person....NOT a very bright idea.

Peace

hedonist

g under p wrote:

Hard to imagine that this guy JH was able to order some of his weapons and ammo over the internet. Do some of you gun lovers and advocates approve of anyone being able to buy these items over the internet?

This to me is more of a major problem in that how do you know as a gun seller to whom are you selling these deadly items to?

Oh let me add the idea of shooting in a dark movie theatre with smoke, maybe tear gas, screaming people running and attempt to shoot the killer.....is a BAD IDEA all together. Instead of becoming a hero you'll probably get shot as the killer instead or end up shooting an innocent person....NOT a very bright idea.

Peace

I'm not a gun lover but support those who use them responsibly, with circumspect.

I saw the police chief say that the guns were purchased legally (I don't think online), but that the ammo was obtained - also legally - via the internet. I believe the same restrictions to purchasing a weapon should apply to ammo too.

As to your last point, agreed. It'd do additional harm - plus this guy was head-to-toe protected. How he got all that gear is another issue that worries me.

Also, like Drifting said at the end of his post, this too has...hit me. All day. The loss of life, the changes both physical and mental to the lives of those who survived, and my wondering what could have led up to this seemingly-intelligent young man planning and carrying out this atrocity.

Byrnzie

Why do people here think America is so riddled with violence?

Byrnzie

hedonist wrote:

I'm not a gun lover but support those who use them responsibly, with circumspect.

I saw the police chief say that the guns were purchased legally (I don't think online), but that the ammo was obtained - also legally - via the internet. I believe the same restrictions to purchasing a weapon should apply to ammo too.

As to your last point, agreed. It'd do additional harm - plus this guy was head-to-toe protected. How he got all that gear is another issue that worries me.

Also, like Drifting said at the end of his post, this too has...hit me. All day. The loss of life, the changes both physical and mental to the lives of those who survived, and my wondering what could have led up to this seemingly-intelligent young man planning and carrying out this atrocity.

So are you saying that guns aren't the problem?


How many times will people need to have these discussions before something is done about it? The next gun massacre like this in the U.S isn't just a possibility, it's a certainty. Just a matter of when, and where.
And yet people will continue arguing that guns aren't the problem...until the next massacre...and again the same arguments...and then the next massacre...and on....and on...and on...and more and more lives are destroyed...and on it goes...

Byrnzie

http://www.theonion.com/articles/sadly- ... ngs,28857/

Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out

July 20, 2012



WASHINGTON—Americans across the nation confirmed today that, unfortunately, due to their extreme familiarity with the type of tragedy that occurred in a Colorado movie theater last night, they sadly know exactly how the events following the horrific shooting of 12 people will unfold.

While admitting they "absolutely hate" the fact they have this knowledge, the nation's 300 million citizens told reporters they can pinpoint down to the hour when the first candlelight vigil will be held, roughly how many people will attend, how many times the county sheriff will address the media in the coming weeks, and when the town-wide memorial service will be held.

Additionally, sources nationwide took no pleasure in confirming that some sort of video recording, written material, or disturbing photographs made by the shooter will be surfacing in about an hour or two.

"I hate to say it, but we as Americans are basically experts at this kind of thing by now,” said 45-year-old market analyst Jared Gerson, adding that the number of media images of Aurora, CO citizens crying and looking shocked is “pretty much right in line with where it usually is at this point." "The calls not to politicize the tragedy should be starting in an hour, but by 1:30 p.m. tomorrow the issue will have been politicized. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the shooter’s high school classmate is interviewed within 45 minutes."

"It's like clockwork," said Gerson, who sighed, shook his head, and walked away.

According to the nation's citizenry, calls for a mature, thoughtful debate about the role of guns in American society started right on time, and should persist throughout the next week or so. However, the populace noted, the debate will soon spiral out of control and ultimately lead to nothing of any substance, a fact Americans everywhere acknowledged they felt "absolutely horrible" to be aware of.

With scalpel-like precision, the American populace then went on to predict, to the minute, how long it will take for the media to swarm Aurora, CO, how long it will take for them to leave, and exactly when questions will be raised as to whether or not violence in movies and video games had something to do with the act.

The nation's citizens also confirmed that, any time now, some religious figure or cable news personality will say something unbelievably insensitive about the tragic shooting.

"Unfortunately, I've been through this a lot, and I pretty much have it down to a science when President Obama will visit Colorado, when he will meet with the families of those who lost loved ones, and when he will give his big speech that people will call 'unifying' and 'very presidential,'" Jacksonville resident Amy Brennen, 32, said, speaking for every other person in the country. "Nothing really surprises me when it comes to this kind of thing anymore. And that makes me feel terrible."

"Oh, and here's another thing I hate I know," Brennen continued, "In exactly two weeks this will all be over and it will be like it never happened."

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/sadly-nation-knows-exactly-how-colorado-shootings,28857/

Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out

July 20, 2012



WASHINGTON—Americans across the nation confirmed today that, unfortunately, due to their extreme familiarity with the type of tragedy that occurred in a Colorado movie theater last night, they sadly know exactly how the events following the horrific shooting of 12 people will unfold.

While admitting they "absolutely hate" the fact they have this knowledge, the nation's 300 million citizens told reporters they can pinpoint down to the hour when the first candlelight vigil will be held, roughly how many people will attend, how many times the county sheriff will address the media in the coming weeks, and when the town-wide memorial service will be held.

Additionally, sources nationwide took no pleasure in confirming that some sort of video recording, written material, or disturbing photographs made by the shooter will be surfacing in about an hour or two.

"I hate to say it, but we as Americans are basically experts at this kind of thing by now,” said 45-year-old market analyst Jared Gerson, adding that the number of media images of Aurora, CO citizens crying and looking shocked is “pretty much right in line with where it usually is at this point." "The calls not to politicize the tragedy should be starting in an hour, but by 1:30 p.m. tomorrow the issue will have been politicized. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the shooter’s high school classmate is interviewed within 45 minutes."

"It's like clockwork," said Gerson, who sighed, shook his head, and walked away.

According to the nation's citizenry, calls for a mature, thoughtful debate about the role of guns in American society started right on time, and should persist throughout the next week or so. However, the populace noted, the debate will soon spiral out of control and ultimately lead to nothing of any substance, a fact Americans everywhere acknowledged they felt "absolutely horrible" to be aware of.

With scalpel-like precision, the American populace then went on to predict, to the minute, how long it will take for the media to swarm Aurora, CO, how long it will take for them to leave, and exactly when questions will be raised as to whether or not violence in movies and video games had something to do with the act.

The nation's citizens also confirmed that, any time now, some religious figure or cable news personality will say something unbelievably insensitive about the tragic shooting.

"Unfortunately, I've been through this a lot, and I pretty much have it down to a science when President Obama will visit Colorado, when he will meet with the families of those who lost loved ones, and when he will give his big speech that people will call 'unifying' and 'very presidential,'" Jacksonville resident Amy Brennen, 32, said, speaking for every other person in the country. "Nothing really surprises me when it comes to this kind of thing anymore. And that makes me feel terrible."

"Oh, and here's another thing I hate I know," Brennen continued, "In exactly two weeks this will all be over and it will be like it never happened."

though this is from the onion its hit the nail on the head with a sad truth.

RFTC

Full disclosure; have been anti-gun for most my life. have lived in TX for 5.5 years now and have come around to gun ownership to the degree i will buy a handgun sometime in 2012.

i still do not understand semi-automatic/automatic rifles not being regulated to the nth degree. someone posted an expired bill, and not even sure about what sort of approval process it takes to buy these killing machines.

for all those that will spout the 'incremental legislative' argument, fuck off. that is nra 101 bullshit. thanks!

catefrances

RFTC wrote:

Full disclosure; have been anti-gun for most my life. have lived in TX for 5.5 years now and have come around to gun ownership to the degree i will buy a handgun sometime in 2012.

i still do not understand semi-automatic/automatic rifles not being regulated to the nth degree. someone posted an expired bill, and not even sure about what sort of approval process it takes to buy these killing machines.

for all those that will spout the 'incremental legislative' argument, fuck off. that is nra 101 bullshit. thanks!

can i ask why have you decided to buy a gun.

hedonist

Byrnzie wrote:

So are you saying that guns aren't the problem?


How many times will people need to have these discussions before something is done about it? The next gun massacre like this in the U.S isn't just a possibility, it's a certainty. Just a matter of when, and where.
And yet people will continue arguing that guns aren't the problem...until the next massacre...and again the same arguments...and then the next massacre...and on....and on...and on...and more and more lives are destroyed...and on it goes...

See the first sentence I posted, please.

It's not those who grasp the gravity of what the weapon can do. I assume, hope, that those who get it are the ones who aren't going the shakiest-gun-in-the-west route, the madman route.

I'm more worried about the clueless, or people with mental issues like young Mr. Holmes, or the whatever, add to the list as you see fit - that's the problem (at least, part of it) - those who have been given so-called legal access to purchase.

Like I said, there should be regulations, checks, in place.