Do you think this guy is your average law abiding person that owns a gun?
Do you think he owns his gun responsibly as millions and millions do?
Was his gun legal at all?
I would say too bad there was not a responsible person there carrying to stop this guy... because one again the police are there to clean up a crime scene, after the fact.
yes i do think he was your average gun owner. probably bought it legally and probably had a permit. he did not carry it into the bar, which was a wise and responisble choice, but then he went out and got it, came back in gun a blazin.
and i am sorry pandora, introducing more guns into a dark strip bar in the middle of a mass panic would have probably caused more death. this is why most public places have signs that say "no guns allowed inside this establishment".
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I'm sure this responsible gun owner (most probably gun purchased legally...) was only only using his gun in self defense and that the people that got shot deserved it. After all, he felt ripped off....
i am sorry. you can not start an altercation, shoot someone, and then claim self defense.
Hold on Gimme, come to FLorida where our laws are tough -- you can start an alttercation and shoot someone dead and claim self defense remember!?
Three people were shot and killed and another injured by a dissatisfied patron of a strip club in Alabama late Thursday, police say.
Houston County Sheriff Andy Hughes told NBC News the shooting happened at Teasers, a topless nightclub outside of Dothan, Ala.
Police arrested the alleged shooter, Ryan Clark Petersen, 22, at 7:30 a.m. CT and charged him with three counts of capital murder and one count of attempted murder.
Authorities received a call about a shooting around 11:30 p.m. Thursday. When deputies arrived on scene, they found four people who had been shot.
Hughes said that a dispute erupted in the club after Petersen complained about a dancer's performance and began touching her. A club employee asked Petersen to leave and escorted him outside. Petersen then allegedly went to his car and retrieved a handgun and reentered the night club and opened fire.
The victims of the shooting included one of the club’s female dancers, a male employee and a male patron.
Hughes said police are not releasing the names of the victims until their families have been notified.
The nightclub, in the Wicksburg community just west of Dothan, is about 100 miles southeast of Montgomery.
Do you think this guy is your average law abiding person that owns a gun?
Do you think he owns his gun responsibly as millions and millions do?
Was his gun legal at all?
I would say too bad there was not a responsible person there carrying to stop this guy... because one again the police are there to clean up a crime scene, after the fact.
No one knew he was going to do this. At what point would they shoot him? When he touches the dancer? On his way to the car? By the time he's shooting people would be too stunned to react. After he stops shooting?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I'm sure this responsible gun owner (most probably gun purchased legally...) was only only using his gun in self defense and that the people that got shot deserved it. After all, he felt ripped off....
What was ever responsible about this guy?
Are you just assuming the gun was legally purchased or do you have facts to back that up?
Is it now responsible behavior to grope a dancer? :fp:
the guy was a jag clearly and by his actions alone definitely not a responsible citizen
I'm sure this responsible gun owner (most probably gun purchased legally...) was only only using his gun in self defense and that the people that got shot deserved it. After all, he felt ripped off....
What was ever responsible about this guy?
Are you just assuming the gun was legally purchased or do you have facts to back that up?
Is it now responsible behavior to grope a dancer? :fp:
the guy was a jag clearly and by his actions alone definitely not a responsible citizen
Guys grope girls in strip clubs every night. They get thrown out, go home and sleep it off. This guy had easy access to a gun and used it. Another obvious example that gun control is needed.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
No one knew he was going to do this. At what point would they shoot him? When he touches the dancer? On his way to the car? By the time he's shooting people would be too stunned to react. After he stops shooting?
really? you don't know much about the license to carry folk do you?
I think the establishment themselves should have had protection and
been well aware of the retaliation that is possible with disgruntled patrons.
This could have been easily avoided and has nothing to do with responsible gun ownership
except they needed some there. We have off duty cops in our places like this to help
protect citizens.
Guys grope girls in strip clubs every night. They get thrown out, go home and sleep it off. This guy had easy access to a gun and used it. Another obvious example that gun control is needed.
No ... a rent a cop would have done fine :fp:
cannot punish the thoughtful because of the thoughtless ...
the answer is always more government control ... when so many incidents like this can be avoided
with good common sense.
No one knew he was going to do this. At what point would they shoot him? When he touches the dancer? On his way to the car? By the time he's shooting people would be too stunned to react. After he stops shooting?
really? you don't know much about the license to carry folk do you?
I think the establishment themselves should have had protection and
been well aware of the retaliation that is possible with disgruntled patrons.
This could have been easily avoided and has nothing to do with responsible gun ownership
except they needed some there. We have off duty cops in our places like this to help
protect citizens.
I know how the brain works during trauma and that most people will first freeze in a situation like this. Having cops there is great. I don't think the average citizen should be expected to be armed and ready to react. The shooting could be easily avoided if there were stricter access to guns in the first place.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
No one knew he was going to do this. At what point would they shoot him? When he touches the dancer? On his way to the car? By the time he's shooting people would be too stunned to react. After he stops shooting?
really? you don't know much about the license to carry folk do you?
I think the establishment themselves should have had protection and
been well aware of the retaliation that is possible with disgruntled patrons.
This could have been easily avoided and has nothing to do with responsible gun ownership
except they needed some there. We have off duty cops in our places like this to help
protect citizens.
Condescending again?
I am sure the establishment would have some kind of firearm. But I am also sure that, should the establishment wish to stay open, this firearm would have been stored responsibly (under lock and key). Someone blazes in, shooting, not much chance to get to this responsibly held firearm, is there? They have 'club employees' which I am sure are there for security.
No one knew he was going to do this. At what point would they shoot him? When he touches the dancer? On his way to the car? By the time he's shooting people would be too stunned to react. After he stops shooting?
really? you don't know much about the license to carry folk do you?
I think the establishment themselves should have had protection and
been well aware of the retaliation that is possible with disgruntled patrons.
This could have been easily avoided and has nothing to do with responsible gun ownership
except they needed some there. We have off duty cops in our places like this to help
protect citizens.
Have you ever been in a dark club? What's anyone gonna do in a matter of seconds to stop them?
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
I think the establishment themselves should have had protection and
been well aware of the retaliation that is possible with disgruntled patrons.
This could have been easily avoided and has nothing to do with responsible gun ownership
except they needed some there. We have off duty cops in our places like this to help
protect citizens.
That's also just a guess and a very biased one. You dont know the details either. He very well may have retrieved his weapon and concealed it until he shot and killed someone. In that case, there is usually nothing you can do until the violence starts.
I know how the brain works during trauma and that most people will first freeze in a situation like this. Having cops there is great. I don't think the average citizen should be expected to be armed and ready to react. The shooting could be easily avoided if there were stricter access to guns in the first place.
This 'freeze' thing is a well known and documented fact - in all traumatic situations, not just shootings. But you know this - it's your area of expertise.
Off duty cops... hmmm... only if they are not twitchy and there are no dogs allowed in the establishment
i am sorry. you can not start an altercation, shoot someone, and then claim self defense.
Can't you? Damn... but I thought guns were owned to 'protect'! :?
against criminals of course ...
I know you get this ... owned by responsible law abiding citizens,
bought legally...
anyone know his criminal record yet? His past?
So much assumption wonder what will be found out.
Again an off duty cop prepared for just this was needed.
Just the sight of a gun in a place like this...
behavior is effected positively where there are cops and license to carry holsters,
not going to start trouble.
Why automatically bring 'negative' assumptions up? Lots of guys are jerks and don't have criminal records. Lots of 'responsible' gun owners are complete jerks but seem to be OK in some people's books (one famous name springs to mind - TN anyone?).
Just like the guy who ate the face off another guy.. automatically assuming it was bath salts (and whole 'debate' ensuing this) when he had nothing more than marijuana in his system.
I know how the brain works during trauma and that most people will first freeze in a situation like this. Having cops there is great. I don't think the average citizen should be expected to be armed and ready to react. The shooting could be easily avoided if there were stricter access to guns in the first place.
How so? what laws would that be?
Do you know if this is a legal gun even? Do you know if he is a felon and
should not even have a gun in his possession by law?
And because one man does this others should not have access to guns
or what would make it stricter for this guy and not others?
As far as freeze it is more an awareness of surroundings, foreseeing trouble,
this what carriers learn. And they are prepared.
As far as freeze it is more an awareness of surroundings, foreseeing trouble,
this what carriers learn. And they are prepared.
Highly trained professionals cannot be fully prepared - why would someone who bought a gun legally over the internet be? How could someone who took a couple of shots at well lit, still target in an appropriate environment, taking all his/her time to do so be prepared?
You know it's not true. Just listen to the ones with expertise and experience on this thread. There are a couple!
I know how the brain works during trauma and that most people will first freeze in a situation like this. Having cops there is great. I don't think the average citizen should be expected to be armed and ready to react. The shooting could be easily avoided if there were stricter access to guns in the first place.
This 'freeze' thing is a well known and documented fact - in all traumatic situations, not just shootings. But you know this - it's your area of expertise.
Off duty cops... hmmm... only if they are not twitchy and there are no dogs allowed in the establishment
Yes of course it's for all traumatic situations We're wired to survive. Typically we flee if we're able, we fight if we're able and if we can't do either, we freeze. In a situation that is likely to result in imminent death, most people will freeze first. It takes a lot of training to undo that wiring. Cops and military personnel go through such training. While a member of the general public or someone without training may also be able to react, they are are very likely to freeze.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Why automatically bring 'negative' assumptions up? Lots of guys are jerks and don't have criminal records. Lots of 'responsible' gun owners are complete jerks but seem to be OK in some people's books (one famous name springs to mind - TN anyone?).
Just like the guy who ate the face off another guy.. automatically assuming it was bath salts (and whole 'debate' ensuing this) when he had nothing more than marijuana in his system.
I am more saying you are all assuming he is a great responsible gun owner
I am saying his actions prove otherwise.
The bathsalts was released information by the media :fp: not me
bathsalts don't remain in the system but 24 to 48 hours when was the guy tested?
They are not illegal either as the criminals are changing the chemistry to continue
to sell them.
I know how the brain works during trauma and that most people will first freeze in a situation like this. Having cops there is great. I don't think the average citizen should be expected to be armed and ready to react. The shooting could be easily avoided if there were stricter access to guns in the first place.
How so? what laws would that be?
Do you know if this is a legal gun even? Do you know if he is a felon and
should not even have a gun in his possession by law?
And because one man does this others should not have access to guns
or what would make it stricter for this guy and not others?
As far as freeze it is more an awareness of surroundings, foreseeing trouble,
this what carriers learn. And they are prepared.
How about if we start with registering guns and mandatory background checks, and follow that up by not recommending that the general public get themselves armed and ready for a gun fight at every given moment.
It's always just "one man". How many situations do we have to have of "one man" doing something like this before we think it's enough?
Be aware of your surrounding is great, but people can't be hypervigilant all the time, nor would we want them to be. What do you recommend in the way of preparation? It's going to take more than a training video.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I am more saying you are all assuming he is a great responsible gun owner
I am saying his actions prove otherwise..
Sarcasm.
Though we never did get a real definition of what 'responsible gun owner' was from a pro-gun person on this thread, reading between the lines (yep.. we can do that!), would suggest that all was needed was a legally purchased gun. I would have thought it would be storing it safely as well but examples of 'bravery' and 'responsible' were given where guns were not stored safely - so I am assuming safe gun storage is not a requirement. Nor is it the law? (I'm not sure of that).
It's always just "one man". How many situations do we have to have of "one man" doing something like this before we think it's enough?.
One man, a few seconds, three dead. A guy who was just there to oggle girls and two who were trying to make a living. Did they have wives/husbands? Children? How many lives ruined by one man?
I just did a quick google in order to purchase firearms online. Wow... just wow. Sure, it would seem that of them you have to 'register' in order to purchase, but this is no different to many other sites that sell anything from cake making items to small electrical appliances. I tried a site, registering with an address at which I used to live many years ago. Then I chose my gun and ammo then went to check out. I even had the choice to put in a different billing and delivery address. Oh, and I had to tick a little thing saying I understood the 'Terms and Conditions' (again like one does for a number of sites. I did stop when I got to the point of entering credit card details.
Not saying that all sites are like that, but wow... This one was on the 5th page of my google search.
This is really scary. How can it be this easy?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Comments
and i am sorry pandora, introducing more guns into a dark strip bar in the middle of a mass panic would have probably caused more death. this is why most public places have signs that say "no guns allowed inside this establishment".
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
haha, Hard to compare the crazies really. :P
What was ever responsible about this guy?
Are you just assuming the gun was legally purchased or do you have facts to back that up?
Is it now responsible behavior to grope a dancer? :fp:
the guy was a jag clearly and by his actions alone definitely not a responsible citizen
Guys grope girls in strip clubs every night. They get thrown out, go home and sleep it off. This guy had easy access to a gun and used it. Another obvious example that gun control is needed.
really? you don't know much about the license to carry folk do you?
I think the establishment themselves should have had protection and
been well aware of the retaliation that is possible with disgruntled patrons.
This could have been easily avoided and has nothing to do with responsible gun ownership
except they needed some there. We have off duty cops in our places like this to help
protect citizens.
Can't you? Damn... but I thought guns were owned to 'protect'! :?
cannot punish the thoughtful because of the thoughtless ...
the answer is always more government control ... when so many incidents like this can be avoided
with good common sense.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Condescending again?
I am sure the establishment would have some kind of firearm. But I am also sure that, should the establishment wish to stay open, this firearm would have been stored responsibly (under lock and key). Someone blazes in, shooting, not much chance to get to this responsibly held firearm, is there? They have 'club employees' which I am sure are there for security.
Have you ever been in a dark club? What's anyone gonna do in a matter of seconds to stop them?
That's also just a guess and a very biased one. You dont know the details either. He very well may have retrieved his weapon and concealed it until he shot and killed someone. In that case, there is usually nothing you can do until the violence starts.
Off duty cops... hmmm... only if they are not twitchy and there are no dogs allowed in the establishment
I know you get this ... owned by responsible law abiding citizens,
bought legally...
anyone know his criminal record yet? His past?
So much assumption wonder what will be found out.
Again an off duty cop prepared for just this was needed.
Just the sight of a gun in a place like this...
behavior is effected positively where there are cops and license to carry holsters,
not going to start trouble.
Why automatically bring 'negative' assumptions up? Lots of guys are jerks and don't have criminal records. Lots of 'responsible' gun owners are complete jerks but seem to be OK in some people's books (one famous name springs to mind - TN anyone?).
Just like the guy who ate the face off another guy.. automatically assuming it was bath salts (and whole 'debate' ensuing this) when he had nothing more than marijuana in his system.
Do you know if this is a legal gun even? Do you know if he is a felon and
should not even have a gun in his possession by law?
And because one man does this others should not have access to guns
or what would make it stricter for this guy and not others?
As far as freeze it is more an awareness of surroundings, foreseeing trouble,
this what carriers learn. And they are prepared.
Highly trained professionals cannot be fully prepared - why would someone who bought a gun legally over the internet be? How could someone who took a couple of shots at well lit, still target in an appropriate environment, taking all his/her time to do so be prepared?
You know it's not true. Just listen to the ones with expertise and experience on this thread. There are a couple!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I am saying his actions prove otherwise.
The bathsalts was released information by the media :fp: not me
bathsalts don't remain in the system but 24 to 48 hours when was the guy tested?
They are not illegal either as the criminals are changing the chemistry to continue
to sell them.
It's always just "one man". How many situations do we have to have of "one man" doing something like this before we think it's enough?
Be aware of your surrounding is great, but people can't be hypervigilant all the time, nor would we want them to be. What do you recommend in the way of preparation? It's going to take more than a training video.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Sarcasm.
Though we never did get a real definition of what 'responsible gun owner' was from a pro-gun person on this thread, reading between the lines (yep.. we can do that!), would suggest that all was needed was a legally purchased gun. I would have thought it would be storing it safely as well but examples of 'bravery' and 'responsible' were given where guns were not stored safely - so I am assuming safe gun storage is not a requirement. Nor is it the law? (I'm not sure of that).
Let's not go down that path....
One man, a few seconds, three dead. A guy who was just there to oggle girls and two who were trying to make a living. Did they have wives/husbands? Children? How many lives ruined by one man?
oh let's...the current path is stuck in a roundabout with no exiting in sight
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
True... this path might make things more 'interesting'. Any 'experts' on this? :corn: