Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

unsung

ComeToTX wrote:

yeah, nothing wrong with gun laws in this country...

In the NRA’s view of the world, Ian Stawicki was a law-abiding citizen with the right to carry a loaded gun in any neighborhood of his choosing.

Until he shot four people to death in a Seattle café and then grabbed a mom and shot her in the head near her children’s school, Washington State’s NRA-style gun carry law meant that police had no choice but to issue Stawicki a license to carry a loaded, hidden handgun. Police were not allowed to consider his long history of violence and mental illness – dangerous gun laws forced them to let him be armed and dangerous.

Stawicki’s father said he wanted his son’s concealed carry license revoked due to his son’s long history of mental illness and violence but “The response to us was, there’s nothing we can do,” because the law mandated that he could be armed. Washington State’s dangerous gun laws require police to allow public gun carrying by anyone who simply pays their fee and passes a quick background check.

Nope, there is a problem there. But I've also asked who defines what mental illnesses would disqualify someone from owning a firearm? The politicians? No thanks. Are you good with a soldier serving for two tours in Iraq/Afghanistan getting shot at on a near daily basis, having IEDs blowing his buddies to bits, and then finally coming back to his family only to find he can't own a gun as a citizen because someone says he has PTSD? Because I'm not, and that is being discussed by those that think they are smarter than all of us.

Cosmo

unsung wrote:

Cosmo, first of all do you honestly think that this guy would have tried to commit this if he knew that people were encouraged to concealed carry in the theatre? I'm guessing he would have thought better of it. Ever hear of a mass shooting at a gun show?

And if you think for one second that wearing all of those clothes would cause bullets to just bounce of off him like Superman, well, I think you are smarter than that.

...
Sorry.. and please, don't take this wrong... because I know you are a smart guy... but, that really sounded like something that would have come out of Sarah Palin's mouth... not Ron Paul's. It really did.
...
I mean, you know this guy was fucking nuts, right? At the same time, he was fucking smart. Maybe... he would have devised a plan to consider those concealed weapons... maybe bought a conversion kit for his AR-15 (from a Good Samaritan at the Gun Show)... and brought more than one gas canister. Uparmoured his vest to military grade... really studied kill zones and firing patterns... shut down the exits by spraying them with fire to send peole back towards the seats. He wasn't a 'Call Of Duty' dumb fuck... he was a PhD candidate and was planning this for a while.
You CAN'T be serious in thinking that having more guns creating deadly cross fire in that small, confined area with tear gas in the air would have saved lives, instead of creating more casualties. Right?
...
And yeah... working closely with military folks, I understand how fucking GREAT Kevlar works. Ever see those guys from that North Hollywood bank heist? Yeah... cop bullets were bouncing off of them like they were Superman. Your solution would work if average citizens were prepared for this type of attack. That means they would have to bring long guns to movie houses. How does THAT promote 'Family Night Out'?

LikeAnOcean

If you own a gun, you are statistically 50% more likely to die from your own gun than somebody elses.

So, owning a gun is statistically more deadly than not owning a gun.


I'm still for the right to bear arms, I just don't feel the need to own a gun.

AzWicker

LikeAnOcean wrote:

I'm still for the right to bear arms, I just don't feel the need to own a gun.

Thats how I feel, I had many guns when I was younger, never an AR-15, mostly Browning 9mm and Wicnchestor Police Defenders. As I got older, I just don't feel the need to carry one or own one. Thankfully I never carried a gun in my car, I would have been a road rage statistic waiting to happen. I just don't want to live my life feeling I need to carry a gun everwhere I go, that would suck, for me at least.

LikeAnOcean

unsung wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

unsung wrote:

What's it like to be oblivious to facts?

Gun-free zones only benefit murderers.

...
So... wait... your solution to this tragedy would have been to put more bullets in the air of a dark movie theater that had a gas canister ignited in it and terror stricken men, women and children running across the rows and up the aisles?
Really? That's your solution???
Because i would think that more bullets in the air would result in more bullets in the the bodies of people. Unless, of course, all of the good bullets in the air only went into the body of the bad man... who happened to be wearing body armor.
Silly me.

Cosmo, first of all do you honestly think that this guy would have tried to commit this if he knew that people were encouraged to concealed carry in the theatre? I'm guessing he would have thought better of it. Ever hear of a mass shooting at a gun show?

And if you think for one second that wearing all of those clothes would cause bullets to just bounce of off him like Superman, well, I think you are smarter than that.

I'm pretty sure if you decide to shoot a bunch of people, chances are you are going to shorten your own lifespan and you probably aren't too worried about it.. Bet this guy could have taken a dozen out at a gun show if he really wanted to.. Probably could have taken a few bullets and still killed a few folks. Gun shows aren't as convenient as movie theaters though.

dimitrispearljam

comebackgirl wrote:

catefrances wrote:

oh and kudos to AMc for now banning costumes... thatll surely fix the problem. :roll: idiots.

so costumes aren't allowed, but guns are? :think:

unreal...

blueandwhite

AzWicker wrote:

LikeAnOcean wrote:

I'm still for the right to bear arms, I just don't feel the need to own a gun.

Thats how I feel, I had many guns when I was younger, never an AR-15, mostly Browning 9mm and Wicnchestor Police Defenders. As I got older, I just don't feel the need to carry one or own one. Thankfully I never carried a gun in my car, I would have been a road rage statistic waiting to happen. I just don't want to live my life feeling I need to carry a gun everwhere I go, that would suck, for me at least.

Well said.

Gun ownership isn't an issue; responsible gun ownership with reasonable limits on the other hand is a serious issue in the US. As far as I can tell, no individual needs that kind of firepower to protect themselves. This extreme paranoia over the state oppressing gun owners is absolutely ridiculous. Most free and democratically elected governments allow for gun ownership with some reasonable restrictions.

Why is a ban on assault rifles like the one used by this shooter so strongly opposed? I have never heard of a person defending themselves with such a weapon.

pandora

PJ_Soul wrote:

Fifi_Ireland wrote:

pandora wrote:

Why would anyone think someone in a full blown episode, a break from reality,
a schizophrenic seek help at a school counseling center.

Really?

The wouldn't, they couldn't even.
Just like Loughner ... the illness manifests as a purpose.

He will be brain tested ... hollow mask anyone

I'm pretty sure someone who had a break from reality and woke up surrounded by guns and bombs might seek some form of assistance! I've never heard of someone having a 6 month long break from reality, although i will stand corrected by the experts.

Exactly. That's why I don't think he is schizophrenic. There was too much planning involved for too long for that kind of thing. I don't think this was a break from reality. I don't know what it was about though. I don't know that he is even mentally I'll. There are LOTS of cases where mass killers weren't.S maybe he is sick and maybe he isn't.Either way, I think that his actions seem to demonstrate that he knew what he was dong was wrong and evil, yet he chose to do it anyway for whatever reason, crazy or not. But in the end no one knows yet. The guy has apparently not said one word to police or anyone else except MAYBE his lawyer. That is another reason to guess that he's not broken from reality though. Those who are would normally talk after the deed. Not clam up completely.

What about this guy committing an eerily similar crime, very recently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner

you are using a logical mind, can you walk through a schizophrenics mind?

As I mentioned the disease presents and manifest in young people as a purpose.
What is your purpose in life?
Certainly a logical mind with a grasp on reality every moment of everyday
has a very different answer than a young man who is mentally ill.
Recently so,schizophrenia first presenting in this age group.

He did not kill himself, he did not try to flee, he waited around for police,
he told them of the booby traps saving lives. Why? This not a logical thing to do
after a vengeful killing spree with logical motive.

I watched him yesterday, speculation again, I have seen this, he has spent
the last 3 days asleep in the fetal position and has pictures snapping through his head.
As though a movie itself. As though he was part of this movie. A very important part.

Not condoning, just coming from a place of empathy if indeed he will be found
to be diseased. And if so should get mental health treatment and be imprisoned for life,
in my opinion.

pandora

dimitrispearljam wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

catefrances wrote:

oh and kudos to AMc for now banning costumes... thatll surely fix the problem. :roll: idiots.

so costumes aren't allowed, but guns are? :think:

unreal...

Here's a notion ... they did that for the psychological comfort of their patrons.

dimitrispearljam

there is no way "we" here in the forum to play the doctors and do diagnose from our home about this guy mind...
no opinion has any value at this matter..with i heard,i know,i read ,cant have an opinion about if he has mental pro or not
there are specialist for this job that court probably will order to do it..
attorneys will play their roles and etc..
..no matter if he has mental pro,or he just like to shoot people and he is a cold murderer
one thing is for sure..he cant never ,ever again must be a free man in the streets..
he is dangerous,and im pretty sure the authorities there at USA,will do the right thing..

pandora

Go Beavers wrote:

Often, the people on TV aren't experts. An expert, at this point, would say it's too soon to draw a conclusion. What producer is going to put that person on TV? They want a dramatic sound bite that is under 60 seconds.

You can add internet forum users to the list also, it's just opinions guys
whether an expert or not. We all got em.

g under p

So if I go to this movie in my scrubs will they consider that to be a costume?

Peace

pandora

g under p wrote:

pandora wrote:

Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.


It appears you still haven't answered my question if this were your son would you have empathy towards the killer?

Peace

that answers your question in my very fist line.

catefrances

g under p wrote:

So if I go to this movie in my scrubs will they consider that to be a costume?

Peace

are you a doctor or a nurse or perhaps an anaesthetist?? if not then best you wear jeans and a kevlar vest.

g under p

pandora wrote:

Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.

g under p wrote:

It appears you still haven't answered my question if this were your son would you have empathy towards the killer?

pandora wrote:

that answers your question in my very fist line.

Thank you for clearing that up....that line wasn't so clear to me, it's been noted now.

peace

pandora

dimitrispearljam wrote:

there is no way "we" here in the forum to play the doctors and do diagnose from our home about this guy mind...
no opinion has any value at this matter..with i heard,i know,i read ,cant have an opinion about if he has mental pro or not
there are specialist for this job that court probably will order to do it..
attorneys will play their roles and etc..
..no matter if he has mental pro,or he just like to shoot people and he is a cold murderer
one thing is for sure..he cant never ,ever again must be a free man in the streets..
he is dangerous,and im pretty sure the authorities there at USA,will do the right thing..

People have opinions from past experiences, from drawing similarities, from knowledge
of a particular subject.

It's only opinions...
We certainly have some here on this subject who have opinions ...

he is a cold blooded killer with a hate for people, blood lust
when no one knows that.

It's just an opinion.
Seems it's more those making something out of a difference of opinion ...

pandora

hedonist wrote:

I do hope that understanding the black place this young man's acts came from can provide insight as to the why - not just for this situation but perhaps to also provide warning signs down the road for others.

But in the end, does it matter if he's mentally ill or just a sick fuck? Or some of both?

Had I lost someone in that bloodbath, I don't think it would mean anything for me to see further into his mind.

It would make all the difference to me knowing mental illness.
But again sadness that there was no help for him before he played this out.

Godfather.

g under p wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Pandora wrote:

How do you get from my words that he was seeking help?

I have heard his victims say they have empathy for him...
some of his victims of course not all :? and yes on TV interviews.

And no I am not saying he found relief in his actions, quite the opposite.

After working in a facility one would think you would have more knowledge
of mental illness and not apply logic to a victim of disease
who is not living in a real and logical world like the rest of us.

It appears you still haven't answered my question if this were your son would you have empathy towards the killer?

Peace

Godfather wrote:

a very realistic question but also cheap and over used in my opinion.

Godfather.

Thanks GF, I don't know why or how it's cheap maybe if I threw some gold in there it wouldn't be. There's reason I asked that question due what she has written past posts and there must be a reason why she appears to NOT want to answer the question when it's turned to her family. It appears she has two standards of operating procedures and I want to find out why.

Not an attack or cheap shot just to be clear...I just want to know does her strong stance still hold when it comes to her relatives. That's all since you care to appear to defend...good for you.

Peace

it's just that that question always comes up on topics like this one, honestly if were my child or other family member I would want blood brains and balls but in a court of law relatives and friends and even people that have been affected by violance get weeded out of the jury process and that's why killers get life or 1 to 20 years or even walk on a murder charge,mabye not very often but it does happen.

Godfather.

catefrances

Godfather. wrote:

it's just that that question always comes up on topics like this one, honestly if were my child or other family member I would want blood brains and balls but in a court of law relatives and friends and even people that have been affected by violance get weeded out of the jury process and that's why killers get life or 1 to 20 years or even walk on a murder charge,mabye not very often but it does happen.

Godfather.

perhaps then we should call for a life for a life. now before you get all vengeancy and start baying for blood, you know i dont support the death penalty.. so for every life a killer takes he/she should serve a life sentence... a real life sentence.. not one that is valued at 25 years or whatever the going rate is now. that way no killer will ever be let loose on the streets again.

pandora

g under p wrote:

It appears you still haven't answered my question if this were your son would you have empathy towards the killer?


Thanks GF, I don't know why or how it's cheap maybe if I threw some gold in there it wouldn't be. There's reason I asked that question due what she has written past posts and there must be a reason why she appears to NOT want to answer the question when it's turned to her family. It appears she has two standards of operating procedures and I want to find out why.

Not an attack or cheap shot just to be clear...I just want to know does her strong stance still hold when it comes to her relatives. That's all since you care to appear to defend...good for you.

Peace

my my what to say ...
have you thought this more than once and been wrong?
Sounds familiar. It is rather insulting when one is committed to their beliefs
and not compromised, again answer in the first line.

For me there is evil and there is ill.

Killing for personal gratification, greed, lust, revenge, joy, fun is entirely
different than killing from a place of loss of reality insanity.

Because I know loss of reality insanity, I must forgive those who are ill
even if I were the victim of loss. I would have no choice and that is based in logic
not empathy.