Give up our freedoms? Well, it's already too late for you anyhow. The checkpoints are already set up. You don't want to answer a simple question then avoid the checkpoints. There's your freedom for you.
Give up our freedoms? Well, it's already too late for you anyhow. The checkpoints are already set up. You don't want to answer a simple question then avoid the checkpoints. There's your freedom for you.
It's all fun and games until someday you are driving, get stopped for no reason, they check your insurance card and while you have insurance you still have the old card in your wallet and you get a ticket for not having insurance.
These measures are not about protecting people at all. If they were, simply asking someone if they are a citizen would certainly not be enough. What a waste of time and money.
They don't have the right to stop someone for no reason. I'll drive where I want and I will likely answer them similar to this person, minus the nazi comparison.
What will you give up next for your security? How about a random house search asking everyone in the house if they are citizens? How about coming up to your table at a restaurant and asking? How about they ask your kid everyday on the way into school? What's the purpose anyhow? What's the success rate? Not only is a violation of our individual rights, but it is a horribly inefficient way to try and combat any crime.
What's the purpose anyhow? What's the success rate? Not only is a violation of our individual rights, but it is a horribly inefficient way to try and combat any crime.
I dont agree with the way the guy did it in the video, but I have to agree with you here and say that for the amount of time and work these checkpoints take, I doubt much good comes out of it. Just a hunch though.
It's all fun and games until someday you are driving, get stopped for no reason, they check your insurance card and while you have insurance you still have the old card in your wallet and you get a ticket for not having insurance.
These measures are not about protecting people at all. If they were, simply asking someone if they are a citizen would certainly not be enough. What a waste of time and money.
They don't have the right to stop someone for no reason. I'll drive where I want and I will likely answer them similar to this person, minus the nazi comparison.
What will you give up next for your security? How about a random house search asking everyone in the house if they are citizens? How about coming up to your table at a restaurant and asking? How about they ask your kid everyday on the way into school? What's the purpose anyhow? What's the success rate? Not only is a violation of our individual rights, but it is a horribly inefficient way to try and combat any crime.
Waste of time and money? You really have no idea about this at all. The checkpoints are primarily put up in major drug trafficking and illegal immigrant trafficking pipelines coming from Mexico. You really think a van full of 17 illegal immigrants are going to try and drive a highway from Mexico to Phoenix knowing they will have to pass through a few checkpoints? What happens is they go into the desert where we have the technology to track and hopefully catch them. Police are already on patrol...how is this a waste of time and money?
I love how in this country people bitch about jobs leaving the country...illegal immigrants are taking our jobs...but when the government does something they hide behind the constituion. Sorry guys, this is a problem and you may have to answer a police officers question or show ID in highly active areas...oh my god the fucking horror of it!!!! :fp:
This is such a joke discussion at this point. It really is. You talk about the government wasting time and money. Here's another point. How would you rather them spend the time and money to catch the illegals that are here? Would you rather have them set up relatively low cost checkpoints or conduct lengthy and costly investigations on anyone suspected?
What's the purpose anyhow? What's the success rate? Not only is a violation of our individual rights, but it is a horribly inefficient way to try and combat any crime.
I dont agree with the way the guy did it in the video, but I have to agree with you here and say that for the amount of time and work these checkpoints take, I doubt much good comes out of it. Just a hunch though.
Just remember, where these checkpoints are set up it's not like the east coast where there are hundreds of routes to get where you're going. These are primarily on roads where it's pretty much the only way to get where you want to go or you can hike it out in the desert.
Waste of time and money? You really have no idea about this at all.
Now instead of wondering if this guy was over the top, I'm wondering why you discuss topics by making really dumbass statements.
Obviously you are the only one that is allowed to have an opinion here. Enjoying being scared of "illegals" and giving up your rights.
Giving up my rights? :fp: Answering a law enforcement officer's question in high areas of criminial activity. Oh my...the horror!!! Hope you don't buy any alcohol tonight...you may have to show ID. Just whip out a copy of the constitution instead.
Giving up my rights? :fp: Answering a law enforcement officer's question in high areas of criminial activity. Oh my...the horror!!! Hope you don't buy any alcohol tonight...you may have to show ID. Just whip out a copy of the constitution instead.
Waste of time and money? You really have no idea about this at all.
Now instead of wondering if this guy was over the top, I'm wondering why you discuss topics by making really dumbass statements.
Obviously you are the only one that is allowed to have an opinion here. Enjoying being scared of "illegals" and giving up your rights.
Giving up my rights? :fp: Answering a law enforcement officer's question in high areas of criminial activity. Oh my...the horror!!! Hope you don't buy any alcohol tonight...you may have to show ID. Just whip out a copy of the constitution instead.
No one gives a shit about illegal search and seizure rights until it happens to them, then it is all "this is a travesty...this is ridiculous..."
fuck that constitution, I trust the gov't to always do what is good and just, how freeing it is to say that...
If you want to live in an ever growing police state continue supporting the representatives and senators at the state and federal level that would like nothing more than to turn it into one...for your safety of course...
The only analogy that really fits is police officers stopping people in high crime areas and asking them to show id and frisking them...are you ok with this happening as well? Those are the same things...buying alcohol at a private business that is required to sell to people older than 21 is vastly different than setting up road blocks to check to see if all drivers are criminals or not.
You are probably someone who calls proving that someone's rights were violated during arrest/investigation/trials as getting a criminal off on a technicality...Now I know that is making an assumption about you, but judging from your obvious disdain for constitutional review and adherence, I think it is a safe one.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Giving up my rights? :fp: Answering a law enforcement officer's question in high areas of criminial activity. Oh my...the horror!!! Hope you don't buy any alcohol tonight...you may have to show ID. Just whip out a copy of the constitution instead.
Great comparison actually. You are required to show proof that you can buy alcohol but suddenly you shouldn't be able to fucking prove that you actually live here?
If you want to live in an ever growing police state
A growing police state. That's pretty funny actually. Well the roadblocks are already here and luckliy we live in a society where info is traded very freely. If you do a google search you can find the locations of the roadblocks. Enjoy avoiding them.
I think the questions I was asked yesterday (analogies, targeting hispanics, etc), have already been addressed with similar answers by other posters....
You, DS, said yourself that if you're acting within the law, you should be able to do what you want - I posted a link to it....and you ignored getting called on it. Do you not see any inconsistency in your arguments between the threads?
Throwing in the lines about 'drug corridors' is another bone of contention for me, and a hint at part of the bigger problem. The heavy handed, law enforcement approach to social problems is almost never the most effective. These check points, like the drug war in general, do NOTHING to solve the base problems. Band aid fixes. The whole 'they're taking our jobs' anger at illegal immigrants is misplaced. We can start the circular conversation about the affects of removing the slave labour workforce from the US economy here if you want...but it seems like a topic for another thread. Also, the drug war tie is a reason I don't support checkpoints. I don't support it, and these checkpoints are another way to screw even casual, recreational pot smokers. fuck that. You're probably talking a truckload of coke, but what about the guy with an eighth of stinky bud, coming home from his friend's house, who now has a cop sticking his nose in the window, but has broken no other law? Throw the book at him, right? Why is so much of US culture based on enFORCEment instead of solving the actual problems? From foreign policy to these checkstops.....Punish those who don't submit to your will (usually at a huge cost), but don't question why they won't.....No wonder your country is broke.
To me, the bottom line is this: If they can’t legally make you answer the question, let alone show ID, this is nothing more than police harassment.
Giving up my rights? :fp: Answering a law enforcement officer's question in high areas of criminial activity. Oh my...the horror!!! Hope you don't buy any alcohol tonight...you may have to show ID. Just whip out a copy of the constitution instead.
Great comparison actually. You are required to show proof that you can buy alcohol but suddenly you shouldn't be able to fucking prove that you actually live here?
Should you have to prove that you haven't been smoking weed? that you didn't steal the contents of your back pack, that you didn't rob a bank, that you didn't buy crack, that you don't have any illegal firearms, etc.etc.etc...
If you aren't ok with one, why are you ok with the other?...I would call that selective use of the bill of rights...rights that should be extended to not only the citizens of our country but any citizen visiting here. If a french national gets caught buying crack does that mean we can do whatever the fuck we want to him because he isn't a US citizen?
please address the fact that one is private sale where law dictates who the customer can be with sharp penalties for a business owner who does not verify age, and being guilty of nothing and simply driving on a road and becoming subject to a traffic stop for no other reason than you were driving. You see we have the protection of the 4th amendment from the government...If you go into a liquor store to buy alcohol and don't have your id, the business owner cannot find you guilty of having weed in your glove box. It is a poor analogy and quite frankly it is intellectually dishonest to say they are the same thing.
The road blocks haven't always been there, kind of lending proof to the fact that the Police state is ever growing. I am starting to believe that this is simply an epic troll job.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I think the questions I was asked yesterday (analogies, targeting hispanics, etc), have already been addressed with similar answers by other posters....
You, DS, said yourself that if you're acting within the law, you should be able to do what you want - I posted a link to it....and you ignored getting called on it. Do you not see any inconsistency in your arguments between the threads?
Throwing in the lines about 'drug corridors' is another bone of contention for me, and a hint at part of the bigger problem. The heavy handed, law enforcement approach to social problems is almost never the most effective. These check points, like the drug war in general, do NOTHING to solve the base problems. Band aid fixes. The whole 'they're taking our jobs' anger at illegal immigrants is misplaced. We can start the circular conversation about the affects of removing the slave labour workforce from the US economy here if you want...but it seems like a topic for another thread. Also, the drug war tie is a reason I don't support checkpoints. I don't support it, and these checkpoints are another way to screw even casual, recreational pot smokers. fuck that. You're probably talking a truckload of coke, but what about the guy with an eighth of stinky bud, coming home from his friend's house, who now has a cop sticking his nose in the window, but has broken no other law? Throw the book at him, right? Why is so much of US culture based on enFORCEment instead of solving the actual problems? From foreign policy to these checkstops.....Punish those who don't submit to your will (usually at a huge cost), but don't question why they won't.....No wonder your country is broke.
To me, the bottom line is this: If they can’t legally make you answer the question, let alone show ID, this is nothing more than police harassment.
First of all, I didn't acknowledge when you quoted me because that was from an entirely different thread on an entirely different subject. Having someone tell me I should carpool to save the earth's resources is entirely different than a government official asking me if I'm a citizen. Secondly, if you believe the US is broke you need to firmly remove your head from your ass. Thirdly, I don't care if it's recreational drugs, trafficking, whatever. If it's illegal you should be willing to pay the price for that. Evryone here knows the laws and that's the bottom line. Also, if you consider checkpoints heavy handed law then there's no help for you. But you don't live here so it doesn't matter for you. The checkpoints are here...I support them...get the illegals out of here.
Should you have to prove that you haven't been smoking weed? that you didn't steal the contents of your back pack, that you didn't rob a bank, that you didn't buy crack, that you don't have any illegal firearms, etc.etc.etc...
If you aren't ok with one, why are you ok with the other?...I would call that selective use of the bill of rights...rights that should be extended to not only the citizens of our country but any citizen visiting here. If a french national gets caught buying crack does that mean we can do whatever the fuck we want to him because he isn't a US citizen?
please address the fact that one is private sale where law dictates who the customer can be with sharp penalties for a business owner who does not verify age, and being guilty of nothing and simply driving on a road and becoming subject to a traffic stop for no other reason than you were driving. You see we have the protection of the 4th amendment from the government...If you go into a liquor store to buy alcohol and don't have your id, the business owner cannot find you guilty of having weed in your glove box. It is a poor analogy and quite frankly it is intellectually dishonest to say they are the same thing.
The road blocks haven't always been there, kind of lending proof to the fact that the Police state is ever growing. I am starting to believe that this is simply an epic troll job.
Whwn people say things about troll jobs it means they usually have run out of arguments. Also, you bring up law and private business. This country you can think of as a private business. If you don't belong here, get the fuck out. We have had problems controlling the border to keep these fucks out, now it's time to take a different stance. Everyone here talks like they are pulling everyone's cars over and tearing them apart. You pull up to the stop, they give you a once over, if something isn't on the up and up you move on. If your car stinks of weed, sorry taht's against the law. If you're drunk...sorry that's against the law. If you aren't a US citizen...sorry that's against the law. The checkpoints are here though and thank goodness. And if you don't think it's a problem sit in a Home Depot parking lot anywhere along the southern border and watch a police car pull in. Illegals scramble like roaches. These are people that work here and don't pay into the system. Make money, pay no taxes, and leave.
Whwn people say things about troll jobs it means they usually have run out of arguments. Also, you bring up law and private business. This country you can think of as a private business. If you don't belong here, get the fuck out. We have had problems controlling the border to keep these fucks out, now it's time to take a different stance. Everyone here talks like they are pulling everyone's cars over and tearing them apart. You pull up to the stop, they give you a once over, if something isn't on the up and up you move on. If your car stinks of weed, sorry taht's against the law. If you're drunk...sorry that's against the law. If you aren't a US citizen...sorry that's against the law. The checkpoints are here though and thank goodness. And if you don't think it's a problem sit in a Home Depot parking lot anywhere along the southern border and watch a police car pull in. Illegals scramble like roaches. These are people that work here and don't pay into the system. Make money, pay no taxes, and leave.
You haven;t made a single argument yet except that you are willing to let the cops do whatever they want so long as they say they are trying to get illegals out.
So, what shows someone isn't on the "up and up" regarding citizenship? They are only asking the person. What would be suspicious?
Should you have to prove that you haven't been smoking weed? that you didn't steal the contents of your back pack, that you didn't rob a bank, that you didn't buy crack, that you don't have any illegal firearms, etc.etc.etc...
If you aren't ok with one, why are you ok with the other?...I would call that selective use of the bill of rights...rights that should be extended to not only the citizens of our country but any citizen visiting here. If a french national gets caught buying crack does that mean we can do whatever the fuck we want to him because he isn't a US citizen?
please address the fact that one is private sale where law dictates who the customer can be with sharp penalties for a business owner who does not verify age, and being guilty of nothing and simply driving on a road and becoming subject to a traffic stop for no other reason than you were driving. You see we have the protection of the 4th amendment from the government...If you go into a liquor store to buy alcohol and don't have your id, the business owner cannot find you guilty of having weed in your glove box. It is a poor analogy and quite frankly it is intellectually dishonest to say they are the same thing.
The road blocks haven't always been there, kind of lending proof to the fact that the Police state is ever growing. I am starting to believe that this is simply an epic troll job.
Whwn people say things about troll jobs it means they usually have run out of arguments. Also, you bring up law and private business. This country you can think of as a private business. If you don't belong here, get the fuck out. We have had problems controlling the border to keep these fucks out, now it's time to take a different stance. Everyone here talks like they are pulling everyone's cars over and tearing them apart. You pull up to the stop, they give you a once over, if something isn't on the up and up you move on. If your car stinks of weed, sorry taht's against the law. If you're drunk...sorry that's against the law. If you aren't a US citizen...sorry that's against the law. The checkpoints are here though and thank goodness. And if you don't think it's a problem sit in a Home Depot parking lot anywhere along the southern border and watch a police car pull in. Illegals scramble like roaches. These are people that work here and don't pay into the system. Make money, pay no taxes, and leave.
YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE WITH STOP AND FRISK LAWS THAT ARE IN PLACE. When you ignore questions and fail to respond to valid points while offering nothing new, that is when you make me think you are simply trying to get a rise out of people. Run out of arguments? you don't know me very well...run out of ways to say the same thing while getting ignored? maybe, however I am starting to realize your intent all along. You want illegals caught and are willing to be subject to all the random searches possible in order to do that...are you ok with them doing random house by house searches in neighborhoods?
At no other time do you have to prove that you haven't committed a crime simply for driving unless
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
First of all, I didn't acknowledge when you quoted me because that was from an entirely different thread on an entirely different subject. Having someone tell me I should carpool to save the earth's resources is entirely different than a government official asking me if I'm a citizen.
You are just a little selective when it comes to your analogies. You're right, it's different because one was a suggestion, one is enforced by a person with the abililty to seriously fuck up your life. If anything, the context makes your statement even more hypocritical.
Should you be able to do what you want within the law or not?
Thirdly, I don't care if it's recreational drugs, trafficking, whatever. If it's illegal you should be willing to pay the price for that. Evryone here knows the laws and that's the bottom line.
Also, if you consider checkpoints heavy handed law then there's no help for you. But you don't live here so it doesn't matter for you. The checkpoints are here...I support them...get the illegals out of here.
fiiiine. I suppose being Canadian negates my opinion . You guys worry about your own rights. This is like talking to an easily offended brick wall, anyway. I'll look for my help elsewhere :roll:
By the way, I'm also against DUI checkpoints, etc. Same thing. I'm also against cops stopping cars for no reason and then checking insurance, etc.
If there is reasonable suspicion or you violate the law (speeding, etc) sure, stop them, ask people for their cards/paperwork.
Where I live, DUI checkpoint s are the ONLY thing keeping thousands and thousands of drunk people from driving. I think it's ludicrous to be against them. I also think it is rather ludicrous to bitch about being asked if you are a citizen as though it is a violation of your freedom. Gimme a break. A question being asked you or having to stop your car briefly is not a violation of any rights. Makes you all sound like a bunch if spoiled brats(sorry).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You're right cincy, all along my problem's been that my requests for help are too muffled
PJsoul - I disagree....the only thing keeping millions of people from drinking and driving is their conscience. The only thing getting tens of people caught is checkpoints. I don't think they work as a deterrent, at least not on a scale that justifies the means. Generally, people who do it will regardless of the checkpoints...people who don't, wouldn't if there were none. It's just like criminalizing drug use. Again, there are more effective ways of dealing with these things that aren't even on the radar. What about finding ways to make a car inoperable by someone under the influence? What about limiting parking at bars, or having gates on the lots? Or have rolling patrols or a selective checkpoint actually outside a bar, where an officer can observe people getting into their cars and approach them with reasonable suspicion, instead of stopping everyone? Just throwin stuff out there, I've never put much thought into it. But based on principal alone, I don't agree with checkpoints. They're enforcement with little focus on prevention.
Why the hostility from your side of the argument, you two? I can think of a few names for people willing to bend for the law.....but using them is counterproductive, apology or not...
By the way, I'm also against DUI checkpoints, etc. Same thing. I'm also against cops stopping cars for no reason and then checking insurance, etc.
If there is reasonable suspicion or you violate the law (speeding, etc) sure, stop them, ask people for their cards/paperwork.
Where I live, DUI checkpoint s are the ONLY thing keeping thousands and thousands of drunk people from driving. I think it's ludicrous to be against them. I also think it is rather ludicrous to bitch about being asked if you are a citizen as though it is a violation of your freedom. Gimme a break. A question being asked you or having to stop your car briefly is not a violation of any rights. Makes you all sound like a bunch if spoiled brats(sorry).
sorry we're acting like brats, grandma...
I wonder, ONLY way, huh...?
I guess no DUI arrests were made prior to roadblocks...
Should you have to prove that you haven't been smoking weed? that you didn't steal the contents of your back pack, that you didn't rob a bank, that you didn't buy crack, that you don't have any illegal firearms, etc.etc.etc...
If you aren't ok with one, why are you ok with the other?...I would call that selective use of the bill of rights...rights that should be extended to not only the citizens of our country but any citizen visiting here. If a french national gets caught buying crack does that mean we can do whatever the fuck we want to him because he isn't a US citizen?
please address the fact that one is private sale where law dictates who the customer can be with sharp penalties for a business owner who does not verify age, and being guilty of nothing and simply driving on a road and becoming subject to a traffic stop for no other reason than you were driving. You see we have the protection of the 4th amendment from the government...If you go into a liquor store to buy alcohol and don't have your id, the business owner cannot find you guilty of having weed in your glove box. It is a poor analogy and quite frankly it is intellectually dishonest to say they are the same thing.
The road blocks haven't always been there, kind of lending proof to the fact that the Police state is ever growing. I am starting to believe that this is simply an epic troll job.
Should you have to prove that you haven't been smoking weed? that you didn't steal the contents of your back pack, that you didn't rob a bank, that you didn't buy crack, that you don't have any illegal firearms, etc.etc.etc...
If you aren't ok with one, why are you ok with the other?...I would call that selective use of the bill of rights...rights that should be extended to not only the citizens of our country but any citizen visiting here. If a french national gets caught buying crack does that mean we can do whatever the fuck we want to him because he isn't a US citizen?
please address the fact that one is private sale where law dictates who the customer can be with sharp penalties for a business owner who does not verify age, and being guilty of nothing and simply driving on a road and becoming subject to a traffic stop for no other reason than you were driving. You see we have the protection of the 4th amendment from the government...If you go into a liquor store to buy alcohol and don't have your id, the business owner cannot find you guilty of having weed in your glove box. It is a poor analogy and quite frankly it is intellectually dishonest to say they are the same thing.
The road blocks haven't always been there, kind of lending proof to the fact that the Police state is ever growing. I am starting to believe that this is simply an epic troll job.
Whwn people say things about troll jobs it means they usually have run out of arguments. Also, you bring up law and private business. This country you can think of as a private business. If you don't belong here, get the fuck out. We have had problems controlling the border to keep these fucks out, now it's time to take a different stance. Everyone here talks like they are pulling everyone's cars over and tearing them apart. You pull up to the stop, they give you a once over, if something isn't on the up and up you move on. If your car stinks of weed, sorry taht's against the law. If you're drunk...sorry that's against the law. If you aren't a US citizen...sorry that's against the law. The checkpoints are here though and thank goodness. And if you don't think it's a problem sit in a Home Depot parking lot anywhere along the southern border and watch a police car pull in. Illegals scramble like roaches. These are people that work here and don't pay into the system. Make money, pay no taxes, and leave.
YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE WITH STOP AND FRISK LAWS THAT ARE IN PLACE. When you ignore questions and fail to respond to valid points while offering nothing new, that is when you make me think you are simply trying to get a rise out of people. Run out of arguments? you don't know me very well...run out of ways to say the same thing while getting ignored? maybe, however I am starting to realize your intent all along. You want illegals caught and are willing to be subject to all the random searches possible in order to do that...are you ok with them doing random house by house searches in neighborhoods?
At no other time do you have to prove that you haven't committed a crime simply for driving unless
Yes I do agree with sop and frisk laws. Absolutely.And stop with the random seacrh bullshit. BTW...they are already happening so keep arguing until you're blue in the face or go write a congressman or something.
First of all, I didn't acknowledge when you quoted me because that was from an entirely different thread on an entirely different subject. Having someone tell me I should carpool to save the earth's resources is entirely different than a government official asking me if I'm a citizen.
You are just a little selective when it comes to your analogies. You're right, it's different because one was a suggestion, one is enforced by a person with the abililty to seriously fuck up your life. If anything, the context makes your statement even more hypocritical.
Should you be able to do what you want within the law or not?
Thirdly, I don't care if it's recreational drugs, trafficking, whatever. If it's illegal you should be willing to pay the price for that. Evryone here knows the laws and that's the bottom line.
Also, if you consider checkpoints heavy handed law then there's no help for you. But you don't live here so it doesn't matter for you. The checkpoints are here...I support them...get the illegals out of here.
fiiiine. I suppose being Canadian negates my opinion . You guys worry about your own rights. This is like talking to an easily offended brick wall, anyway. I'll look for my help elsewhere :roll:
What about finding ways to make a car inoperable by someone under the influence? What about limiting parking at bars, or having gates on the lots? Or have rolling patrols or a selective checkpoint actually outside a bar, where an officer can observe people getting into their cars or not...
So you want to pass along the responsibilty of preventing DUI's onto the automotive industry by putting breathalyzers in each car? A cost that would be passed down to every consumer. You want to gate the bars and put the resposibilty on the bar owner to police his cusotmers (thought that's what we had police for actually). Or you support checkpoints but only outside each individual bar so they can sit there and watch each individual driver walking to their car. For someone that doesn't want to have their rights "infringed on" by random DUI checkpoints you have offered some excellent alternatives. :roll:
By the way, I'm also against DUI checkpoints, etc. Same thing. I'm also against cops stopping cars for no reason and then checking insurance, etc.
If there is reasonable suspicion or you violate the law (speeding, etc) sure, stop them, ask people for their cards/paperwork.
Where I live, DUI checkpoint s are the ONLY thing keeping thousands and thousands of drunk people from driving. I think it's ludicrous to be against them. I also think it is rather ludicrous to bitch about being asked if you are a citizen as though it is a violation of your freedom. Gimme a break. A question being asked you or having to stop your car briefly is not a violation of any rights. Makes you all sound like a bunch if spoiled brats(sorry).
sorry we're acting like brats, grandma...
.
I wonder, ONLY way, huh...?
I guess no DUI arrests were made prior to roadblocks...
What? That doesn't make sense. I said roadblocks are the oy thing keeping tons of people from runk driving. Not that they're the only way to keep people from doing it (but I am pretty sure it's the best deterrent by far) .... I see. Your method of debate is to twist what people say to suit you. I don't roll like that.
And why are you calling me grandma??
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Oh really? You've fallen back on 'illegal = bad" in every post in this thread, yet I'm the one saying nothing?
There were three parts to my post. Two of them criticized your inability to debate without getting your panties in a bunch, getting condescending, insulting, and indignant over someone disagreeing with you. You obviously have nothing to say about that:
fiiiine. I suppose being Canadian negates my opinion . You guys worry about your own rights. This is like talking to an easily offended brick wall, anyway. I'll look for my help elsewhere ..
The other part pointed out your hypocrisy, and asked a specific question which you've chosen to ignore again:
You are just a little selective when it comes to your analogies. You're right, it's different because one was a suggestion, one is enforced by a person with the abililty to seriously fuck up your life. If anything, the context makes your statement even more hypocritical. Should you be able to do what you want within the law or not? ..
What about finding ways to make a car inoperable by someone under the influence? What about limiting parking at bars, or having gates on the lots? Or have rolling patrols or a selective checkpoint actually outside a bar, where an officer can observe people getting into their cars or not...
So you want to pass along the responsibilty of preventing DUI's onto the automotive industry by putting breathalyzers in each car? A cost that would be passed down to every consumer. You want to gate the bars and put the resposibilty on the bar owner to police his cusotmers (thought that's what we had police for actually). Or you support checkpoints but only outside each individual bar so they can sit there and watch each individual driver walking to their car. For someone that doesn't want to have their rights "infringed on" by random DUI checkpoints you have offered some excellent alternatives. :roll:
hey, I said i didn't put much thought into it In any way we approach the issue, we're all paying for it. If the true objective is to prevent drunk driving, there are more effective ways of doing so. Is the objective to save lives or to save money? I said 'rolling' because it obviously couldn't happen at every bar. I have no problem with the police watching me walk out of a bar as long as they leave me alone if I'm not doing anythign wrong. Same goes for driving. They can sit on the side of the road and watch me drive by all fucking day if they want.
Comments
exactly... :!:
It's all fun and games until someday you are driving, get stopped for no reason, they check your insurance card and while you have insurance you still have the old card in your wallet and you get a ticket for not having insurance.
These measures are not about protecting people at all. If they were, simply asking someone if they are a citizen would certainly not be enough. What a waste of time and money.
They don't have the right to stop someone for no reason. I'll drive where I want and I will likely answer them similar to this person, minus the nazi comparison.
What will you give up next for your security? How about a random house search asking everyone in the house if they are citizens? How about coming up to your table at a restaurant and asking? How about they ask your kid everyday on the way into school? What's the purpose anyhow? What's the success rate? Not only is a violation of our individual rights, but it is a horribly inefficient way to try and combat any crime.
I dont agree with the way the guy did it in the video, but I have to agree with you here and say that for the amount of time and work these checkpoints take, I doubt much good comes out of it. Just a hunch though.
Waste of time and money?
I love how in this country people bitch about jobs leaving the country...illegal immigrants are taking our jobs...but when the government does something they hide behind the constituion. Sorry guys, this is a problem and you may have to answer a police officers question or show ID in highly active areas...oh my god the fucking horror of it!!!! :fp:
This is such a joke discussion at this point. It really is. You talk about the government wasting time and money. Here's another point. How would you rather them spend the time and money to catch the illegals that are here? Would you rather have them set up relatively low cost checkpoints or conduct lengthy and costly investigations on anyone suspected?
Just remember, where these checkpoints are set up it's not like the east coast where there are hundreds of routes to get where you're going. These are primarily on roads where it's pretty much the only way to get where you want to go or you can hike it out in the desert.
Now instead of wondering if this guy was over the top, I'm wondering why you discuss topics by making really dumbass statements.
Obviously you are the only one that is allowed to have an opinion here. Enjoying being scared of "illegals" and giving up your rights.
Giving up my rights?
:fp: :fp: :nono: ::nono: :geek: :corn: :corn: :x :x
Good comparison.
No one gives a shit about illegal search and seizure rights until it happens to them, then it is all "this is a travesty...this is ridiculous..."
fuck that constitution, I trust the gov't to always do what is good and just, how freeing it is to say that...
If you want to live in an ever growing police state continue supporting the representatives and senators at the state and federal level that would like nothing more than to turn it into one...for your safety of course...
The only analogy that really fits is police officers stopping people in high crime areas and asking them to show id and frisking them...are you ok with this happening as well? Those are the same things...buying alcohol at a private business that is required to sell to people older than 21 is vastly different than setting up road blocks to check to see if all drivers are criminals or not.
You are probably someone who calls proving that someone's rights were violated during arrest/investigation/trials as getting a criminal off on a technicality...Now I know that is making an assumption about you, but judging from your obvious disdain for constitutional review and adherence, I think it is a safe one.
edit: forgot these
:fp: :nono: :corn: :roll:
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Great comparison actually. You are required to show proof that you can buy alcohol but suddenly you shouldn't be able to fucking prove that you actually live here?
A growing police state. That's pretty funny actually.
You, DS, said yourself that if you're acting within the law, you should be able to do what you want - I posted a link to it....and you ignored getting called on it. Do you not see any inconsistency in your arguments between the threads?
Throwing in the lines about 'drug corridors' is another bone of contention for me, and a hint at part of the bigger problem. The heavy handed, law enforcement approach to social problems is almost never the most effective. These check points, like the drug war in general, do NOTHING to solve the base problems. Band aid fixes. The whole 'they're taking our jobs' anger at illegal immigrants is misplaced. We can start the circular conversation about the affects of removing the slave labour workforce from the US economy here if you want...but it seems like a topic for another thread. Also, the drug war tie is a reason I don't support checkpoints. I don't support it, and these checkpoints are another way to screw even casual, recreational pot smokers. fuck that. You're probably talking a truckload of coke, but what about the guy with an eighth of stinky bud, coming home from his friend's house, who now has a cop sticking his nose in the window, but has broken no other law? Throw the book at him, right? Why is so much of US culture based on enFORCEment instead of solving the actual problems? From foreign policy to these checkstops.....Punish those who don't submit to your will (usually at a huge cost), but don't question why they won't.....No wonder your country is broke.
To me, the bottom line is this: If they can’t legally make you answer the question, let alone show ID, this is nothing more than police harassment.
Should you have to prove that you haven't been smoking weed? that you didn't steal the contents of your back pack, that you didn't rob a bank, that you didn't buy crack, that you don't have any illegal firearms, etc.etc.etc...
If you aren't ok with one, why are you ok with the other?...I would call that selective use of the bill of rights...rights that should be extended to not only the citizens of our country but any citizen visiting here. If a french national gets caught buying crack does that mean we can do whatever the fuck we want to him because he isn't a US citizen?
please address the fact that one is private sale where law dictates who the customer can be with sharp penalties for a business owner who does not verify age, and being guilty of nothing and simply driving on a road and becoming subject to a traffic stop for no other reason than you were driving. You see we have the protection of the 4th amendment from the government...If you go into a liquor store to buy alcohol and don't have your id, the business owner cannot find you guilty of having weed in your glove box. It is a poor analogy and quite frankly it is intellectually dishonest to say they are the same thing.
The road blocks haven't always been there, kind of lending proof to the fact that the Police state is ever growing. I am starting to believe that this is simply an epic troll job.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
First of all, I didn't acknowledge when you quoted me because that was from an entirely different thread on an entirely different subject. Having someone tell me I should carpool to save the earth's resources is entirely different than a government official asking me if I'm a citizen. Secondly, if you believe the US is broke you need to firmly remove your head from your ass. Thirdly, I don't care if it's recreational drugs, trafficking, whatever. If it's illegal you should be willing to pay the price for that. Evryone here knows the laws and that's the bottom line. Also, if you consider checkpoints heavy handed law then there's no help for you. But you don't live here so it doesn't matter for you. The checkpoints are here...I support them...get the illegals out of here.
Whwn people say things about troll jobs it means they usually have run out of arguments. Also, you bring up law and private business. This country you can think of as a private business. If you don't belong here, get the fuck out. We have had problems controlling the border to keep these fucks out, now it's time to take a different stance. Everyone here talks like they are pulling everyone's cars over and tearing them apart. You pull up to the stop, they give you a once over, if something isn't on the up and up you move on. If your car stinks of weed, sorry taht's against the law. If you're drunk...sorry that's against the law. If you aren't a US citizen...sorry that's against the law. The checkpoints are here though and thank goodness. And if you don't think it's a problem sit in a Home Depot parking lot anywhere along the southern border and watch a police car pull in. Illegals scramble like roaches. These are people that work here and don't pay into the system. Make money, pay no taxes, and leave.
You haven;t made a single argument yet except that you are willing to let the cops do whatever they want so long as they say they are trying to get illegals out.
So, what shows someone isn't on the "up and up" regarding citizenship? They are only asking the person. What would be suspicious?
Interesting choice in words. Also, now you are saying they leave, I thought you wanted them too
YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE WITH STOP AND FRISK LAWS THAT ARE IN PLACE. When you ignore questions and fail to respond to valid points while offering nothing new, that is when you make me think you are simply trying to get a rise out of people. Run out of arguments? you don't know me very well...run out of ways to say the same thing while getting ignored? maybe, however I am starting to realize your intent all along. You want illegals caught and are willing to be subject to all the random searches possible in order to do that...are you ok with them doing random house by house searches in neighborhoods?
At no other time do you have to prove that you haven't committed a crime simply for driving unless
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Should you be able to do what you want within the law or not?
mad debating skills, bro.
fiiiine. I suppose being Canadian negates my opinion
You have no shot at finding help considering your head is up your ass!!!
You're right cincy, all along my problem's been that my requests for help are too muffled
PJsoul - I disagree....the only thing keeping millions of people from drinking and driving is their conscience. The only thing getting tens of people caught is checkpoints. I don't think they work as a deterrent, at least not on a scale that justifies the means. Generally, people who do it will regardless of the checkpoints...people who don't, wouldn't if there were none. It's just like criminalizing drug use. Again, there are more effective ways of dealing with these things that aren't even on the radar. What about finding ways to make a car inoperable by someone under the influence? What about limiting parking at bars, or having gates on the lots? Or have rolling patrols or a selective checkpoint actually outside a bar, where an officer can observe people getting into their cars and approach them with reasonable suspicion, instead of stopping everyone? Just throwin stuff out there, I've never put much thought into it. But based on principal alone, I don't agree with checkpoints. They're enforcement with little focus on prevention.
Why the hostility from your side of the argument, you two? I can think of a few names for people willing to bend for the law.....but using them is counterproductive, apology or not...
sorry we're acting like brats, grandma...
I wonder, ONLY way, huh...?
I guess no DUI arrests were made prior to roadblocks...
great post, Mike...
Yes I do agree with sop and frisk laws. Absolutely.And stop with the random seacrh bullshit. BTW...they are already happening so keep arguing until you're blue in the face or go write a congressman or something.
yet censorship seems to bother you....
:?
And yet another post where you say nothing.
So you want to pass along the responsibilty of preventing DUI's onto the automotive industry by putting breathalyzers in each car? A cost that would be passed down to every consumer. You want to gate the bars and put the resposibilty on the bar owner to police his cusotmers (thought that's what we had police for actually). Or you support checkpoints but only outside each individual bar so they can sit there and watch each individual driver walking to their car. For someone that doesn't want to have their rights "infringed on" by random DUI checkpoints you have offered some excellent alternatives.
And why are you calling me grandma??
There were three parts to my post. Two of them criticized your inability to debate without getting your panties in a bunch, getting condescending, insulting, and indignant over someone disagreeing with you. You obviously have nothing to say about that:
The other part pointed out your hypocrisy, and asked a specific question which you've chosen to ignore again:
hey, I said i didn't put much thought into it