People like this...

Jason P

inmytree wrote:

you buy your jeans at Kohl's....??

Buddy Lee's. You betcha! $23 a pair.

mikepegg44

DS1119 wrote:

This isn't against you but as a political science major I really hate when modern issues try to get translated word for word by documents that were written hundreds of years ago.

yeah, fuck that constitution, we should have kings

I know that isn't what you meant, but I would rather them take a little longer and apply the constitution than simply let the feds do whatever they can get passed. Shit...judicial review rarely stops them anyway.

are you ok with the stop and frisk laws in NYC and other major cities?

DS1119

Drowned Out wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

I'm curious...what happens if an hispanic American person goes thru one of these checkpoints as a passenger, if they own no govt issued ID to prove who they are? Are they held until they can prove citizenship, or let go? (genuinely, I'm not very familiar with this).

Illegally detained? Anytime I go to the capitol building here in Albany I need to show proper ID. Is this being illegally detained. This is the country we're talking about. And yes, if you're in the southern part of the States and happen to be of Hispanic descent, carry some ID. As for that fact, everyone should carry ID. There's no one that lives in the country, especially if you moved here legally, that doesn't have proof of citizneship. This is such a non issue it's unbelievable. Carry your ID and there's no issue. Answer the officer's question and there's no issue. :fp:

Unless you're a hispanic citizen (even american born), who doesn't carry their papers at all times, then you have an issue...right? How is that equal rights?
Again....Going into a government building and showing ID could be argued to be another safety function (tho I'm not a big fan of that either).. Travelling from one place to another unimpeded is totally different.

If the police can't even make this guy answer the question, asking it obviously isnt legal....but we should answer anyway?
Hispanics should carry ID?
Everyone should? (well, southerners should anyway?)
I paraphrase you because you're stating belief, not law. In your opinion, this is how people should act.
do you remember this conversation?
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=150322&hilit=how+much+are+you+paying%3F&start=195

DS1119 wrote:

I live my life how I want within the laws. Perhaps its the one's who preach that are feeling the guilt and feel it necessary to try and direct others on how to act. Still it all comes down to the word SHOULD. I shouldn't do anything but pay my bills, take care of my friends and family, and enjoy life. If I CHOOSE to recycle, carpool, whatever...that's my choice. Having someone tell me I should have only one car...someone telling me I should carpool...someone telling me I should ride a bike...no.

Slightly out of context, but def relevent....illegal immigration is a big problem to you, the environment is to others. You carpool, you ride a bike, and the environment is a non-issue.....doesn't work like that, does it?....and I'm assuming these checkpoints lead to a lot of rights being trampled.
I won't keep harping on the future consequence angle....

This is pretty comical actually. Targeting Hispanics? Yes random roadblocks asking for your citzenship are targeting hispanics and is unCOnstitutional?

DS1119

inmytree wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

inmytree wrote:

if I'm not doing anything wrong, i.e. driving down the road and obeying all laws...I should be pestered by law enforcement...

Well unfortunately sometimes an individual will need to be "pestered" for the good of society and if answering a law officer's question about my citizenship when I'm in that particular country is considered being pestered than that's fine with me.

And about the illegal immingrant issue. Move along the southern border...California, Arizona, Texas, etc. and tell me then it's not an issue.

I'm glad you're ok with some pestering...I'm not......I know you see the roadblocks as benign, I don't...I think I should be able to move freely without being stopped...I guess that's a hard concept for some...

I think I should be able to buy a gun without ID and carry it wherever I want to. The Constitution says that too.

DS1119

mikepegg44 wrote:

are you ok with the stop and frisk laws in NYC and other major cities?

Being stopped at random checkpoints along known drug and illegal immigrant trafficking corridors and asked your citizenship is far from this.

inmytree

DS1119 wrote:

I think I should be able to buy a gun without ID and carry it wherever I want to. The Constitution says that too.

perhaps you should do this...get yourself a gun and carry it wherever you want...

I hope you're not arrested at one these random checkpoints that you're so supportive of...

Drowned Out

DS1119 wrote:

This is pretty comical actually. Targeting Hispanics? Yes random roadblocks asking for your citzenship are targeting hispanics and is unCOnstitutional?

You keep mocking my responses with face palms - laughing, rolling eyes...yet you're not really adressing any of my points.
You said yourself that the roadblocks are set up to target illegal immigrants, right? Buuuut....they're not targeting hispanics?
So you must mean the roadblocks are meant to target all of those pesky Scandinavian 'illegals', right?

DS1119

inmytree wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I think I should be able to buy a gun without ID and carry it wherever I want to. The Constitution says that too.

perhaps you should do this...get yourself a gun and carry it wherever you want...

I hope you're not arrested at one these random checkpoints that you're so supportive of...

Hmm...imagine the amount of illegal guns they would be able to get off the streets from people who aren't citizens. Imagine the illegal ones they could get off the streets from legal citizens. Sounds like a win win situation to me..

Jason P

inmytree wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I think I should be able to buy a gun without ID and carry it wherever I want to. The Constitution says that too.

perhaps you should do this...get yourself a gun and carry it wherever you want...

I hope you're not arrested at one these random checkpoints that you're so supportive of...

All you have to do is legally obtain a concealed carry permit, have it with you, and no worries. Just keep it in your wallet.

DS1119

Drowned Out wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

This is pretty comical actually. Targeting Hispanics? Yes random roadblocks asking for your citzenship are targeting hispanics and is unCOnstitutional?

You keep mocking my responses with face palms - laughing, rolling eyes...yet you're not really adressing any of my points.
You said yourself that the roadblocks are set up to target illegal immigrants, right? Buuuut....they're not targeting hispanics?
So you must mean the roadblocks are meant to target all of those pesky Scandinavian 'illegals', right?

They're not trageting Hispancis. Are Hispanic people the only people being pulled over and being asked their citizenship? Nope. They may even come across some Italians, French, or Kenyans here illegally. Doesn't matter. If you're here illegally...get the fuck out. Plain and simple.

DS1119

Jason P wrote:

inmytree wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I think I should be able to buy a gun without ID and carry it wherever I want to. The Constitution says that too.

perhaps you should do this...get yourself a gun and carry it wherever you want...

I hope you're not arrested at one these random checkpoints that you're so supportive of...

All you have to do is legally obtain a concealed carry permit, have it with you, and no worries. Just keep it in your wallet.

You mean I would have to carry paperwork to prove I can have a concealed weapon? This along with you having to show ID at Kohls? Whats going on with this country? Is it Nazi Germany? :fp:

cincybearcat

DS1119 wrote:

You mean I would have to carry paperwork to prove I can have a concealed weapon? This along with you having to show ID at Kohls? Whats going on with this country? Is it Nazi Germany? :fp:

So, can an officer stop you on the street for no other reason but to frisk you to see if you have a gun and then ask for your permit if you do?

Also, at Kohls, you have the option of cash no?

PJ_Soul

Drowned Out wrote:

You keep mocking my responses with face palms - laughing, rolling eyes...yet you're not really adressing any of my points.
You said yourself that the roadblocks are set up to target illegal immigrants, right? Buuuut....they're not targeting hispanics?
So you must mean the roadblocks are meant to target all of those pesky Scandinavian 'illegals', right?

Targeting Hispanics would be only pulling over Hispanics and only asking to see Hispanics ID. They are targeting illegal immigrants. If every illegal they find happens to be Hispanic, that is meaningless as far as their in tensions go, because they seem to checking everyone's ID.
I personally see no difference at all between this kind of road check and counterattack road checks. Just because one thinks counterattack is for the public safety while the illegal immigrant road check isn't doesn't really make it so. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who think the illegal immigrant situation is dangerous in many different ways. There are plenty of people who think they are totally fine driving after five beers. So they shouldn't be stopped at a counterattack road checks?
Everyone knows that certain freedoms need to be sacrificed for the betterment of the whole. That's what having laws is all about. Just wondering how those against these road checks feel about poloce road checks that are set up to catch criminals on the run. Like to try and keep them from leaving a city. Because i never hear anyone complaining abput those, yet i see no difference between that and this except for the fact that this happens to be a political hot button. But it's about catching people breaking the law. Our personal opinions about said law shpuld not be a factor. No way would you folks be against this if the roadblock was set up to stop every driver to see.if you and anyone else was some guy who just blew up a government building or the kidnapper of a child.e

There is no difference here in the legal sense. The only difference is your personal opinions about the crime that they are trying to stop.

Jason P

cincybearcat wrote:

So, can an officer stop you on the street for no other reason but to frisk you to see if you have a gun and then ask for your permit if you do?

Also, at Kohls, you have the option of cash no?

1) I guess in some parts they can. If it starts happening in parts near me ... probably a good sign the neighborhood has gone to crap. :?

2) I rarely carry cash ... so personally, it wasn't an option.

DS1119

cincybearcat wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

You mean I would have to carry paperwork to prove I can have a concealed weapon? This along with you having to show ID at Kohls? Whats going on with this country? Is it Nazi Germany? :fp:

So, can an officer stop you on the street for no other reason but to frisk you to see if you have a gun and then ask for your permit if you do?

Also, at Kohls, you have the option of cash no?

We are not talking about an officer stopping me on the street for no reason and frisking me.

These are measures to catch illegal aliens in high trafficking areas.. One of the other posters made a great point. He had to show ID to buy a pair of fucking jeans with a credit card...but people get all up in arms if a government official ever asked to see ID or just asked a simple fucking question about your citzenship to verify that said person may actually have the right to be in this fucking country?!

Sorry for the little rant. It's not against you...I just really see zero problem with this.

DS1119

PJ_Soul wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

You keep mocking my responses with face palms - laughing, rolling eyes...yet you're not really adressing any of my points.
You said yourself that the roadblocks are set up to target illegal immigrants, right? Buuuut....they're not targeting hispanics?
So you must mean the roadblocks are meant to target all of those pesky Scandinavian 'illegals', right?

Targeting Hispanics would be only pulling over Hispanics and only asking to see Hispanics ID. They are targeting illegal immigrants. If every illegal they find happens to be Hispanic, that is meaningless as far as their in tensions go, because they seem to checking everyone's ID.
I personally see no difference at all between this kind of road check and counterattack road checks. Just because one thinks counterattack is for the public safety while the illegal immigrant road check isn't doesn't really make it so. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who think the illegal immigrant situation is dangerous in many different ways. There are plenty of people who think they are totally fine driving after five beers. So they shouldn't be stopped at a counterattack road checks?
Everyone knows that certain freedoms need to be sacrificed for the betterment of the whole. That's what having laws is all about. Just wondering how those against these road checks feel about poloce road checks that are set up to catch criminals on the run. Like to try and keep them from leaving a city. Because i never hear anyone complaining abput those, yet i see no difference between that and this except for the fact that this happens to be a political hot button. But it's about catching people breaking the law. Our personal opinions about said law shpuld not be a factor. No way would you folks be against this if the roadblock was set up to stop every driver to see.if you and anyone else was some guy who just blew up a government building or the kidnapper of a child.e

There is no difference here in the legal sense. The only difference is your personal opinions about the crime that they are trying to stop.

Pretty much spot on. I should have read further down the thread before posting.

I posted earlier that they have checkpoints in Nevada AND ARIZONA (huh??? The horror!!!!) before you drive over the Hoover Dam. You pull up, the officer asks you some questions...you're vehicle is scanned from underneath...I've seen dogs at various times at these checkpoints...but yet no one ever had an issue with these??

Try at one of these checkpoints being a wise ass like the guy in the video. Also, I mentioned the checkpoint in Arizona. That one wasn't a problem...but suddenly checkpoints looking for illegals is?

cincybearcat

DS1119 wrote:

We are not talking about an officer stopping me on the street for no reason and frisking me.

These are measures to catch illegal aliens in high trafficking areas.. One of the other posters made a great point. He had to show ID to buy a pair of fucking jeans with a credit card...but people get all up in arms if a government official ever asked to see ID or just asked a simple fucking question about your citzenship to verify that said person may actually have the right to be in this fucking country?!

Sorry for the little rant. It's not against you...I just really see zero problem with this.

Sure we are. That's what they did. They stopped people in cars going about their business to ask them for identification. That's exactly like stopping you on the street and doing it as well.

I'm fine with doing this at the border (duh?) but just wherever they want? That is bullshit. I'm not willing to sacrifice my freedoms for security against illegal immigrants.

If you really think showing an id when using a credit card is the same thing, then I don't know what to tell you. You obviously don't understand how a credit card works.

Jason P

cincybearcat wrote:

They stopped people in cars going about their business to ask them for identification. That's exactly like stopping you on the street and doing it as well.

Watch the beginning again. He was asked if he was a US citizen. He was not asked to provide ID.

Jason P

If you want to avoid the checkpoints, here is where they are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_Interior_Checkpoints

PJ_Soul

Jason P wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

They stopped people in cars going about their business to ask them for identification. That's exactly like stopping you on the street and doing it as well.

Watch the beginning again. He was asked if he was a US citizen. He was not asked to provide ID.

I don't know about you all, but I'm asked if I'm a Canadian citizen all the time. Surveys, forms for all kinds of things... I don't get the big deal at all.