I think of the victims in all crime and their loved ones....
the suffering in this case immense I am sure.
It seems others here disregard them and that.
I know about mental illness first hand ...
it's not nor ever was curable only controllable.
It would be very dangerous to think anything otherwise especially in this case
and controllable just isn't good enough.
Lock and key!
you seem to believe that no one is thinking of the victims which is not the case. the issue boils down to the fact that this person is also a victim. he is a mental health victim. Yes mental health is not curable but it is treatable. I don't doubt for a second that these doctors have supervised him for a very long time and I will also not doubt that they feel that he is safe to be outside with supervision.
Four years :? ...
fours years is yesterday.
And no I have not seen many speak on behalf of the poor victims here,
not as they deserve, surely.
I have touched on why I believe I would not trust doctors to make calls like this in other posts
in this thread, so I won't go over all that again.
This level of violence :fp: of course I say NO to freedom jaunts,
out of respect for the victim's family and the safety of society.
I think of the victims in all crime and their loved ones....
the suffering in this case immense I am sure.
It seems others here disregard them and that.
I know about mental illness first hand ...
it's not nor ever was curable only controllable.
It would be very dangerous to think anything otherwise especially in this case
and controllable just isn't good enough.
Lock and key!
you seem to believe that no one is thinking of the victims which is not the case. the issue boils down to the fact that this person is also a victim. he is a mental health victim. Yes mental health is not curable but it is treatable. I don't doubt for a second that these doctors have supervised him for a very long time and I will also not doubt that they feel that he is safe to be outside with supervision.
Four years :? ...
fours years is yesterday.
And no I have not seen many speak on behalf of the poor victims here,
not as they deserve, surely.
I have touched on why I believe I would not trust doctors to make calls like this in other posts
in this thread, so I won't go over all that again.
This level of violence :fp: of course I say NO to freedom jaunts,
out of respect for the victim's family and the safety of society.
No one here or anyone that I have talked to about this case has not said that what this person did was good. Infact everyone was horrified by what happen. but the main issue is that we have rules in place that says that if a person is found to not be able to understand what they did that it would be cruel and unusual punishment to put this person in prison. This person had/has major mental health issue but our courts understand that people with mental health issues can live a normal life.
you seem to believe that no one is thinking of the victims which is not the case. the issue boils down to the fact that this person is also a victim. he is a mental health victim. Yes mental health is not curable but it is treatable. I don't doubt for a second that these doctors have supervised him for a very long time and I will also not doubt that they feel that he is safe to be outside with supervision.
Four years :? ...
fours years is yesterday.
And no I have not seen many speak on behalf of the poor victims here,
not as they deserve, surely.
I have touched on why I believe I would not trust doctors to make calls like this in other posts
in this thread, so I won't go over all that again.
This level of violence :fp: of course I say NO to freedom jaunts,
out of respect for the victim's family and the safety of society.
No one here or anyone that I have talked to about this case has not said that what this person did was good. Infact everyone was horrified by what happen. but the main issue is that we have rules in place that says that if a person is found to not be able to understand what they did that it would be cruel and unusual punishment to put this person in prison. This person had/has major mental health issue but our courts understand that people with mental health issues can live a normal life.
Yes I'm sure no one thought it good to behead and eat a human being and of course everyone
was shocked. That though is not showing respect for the victim or his loved ones.
and yes they can but without the possibility of ever hurting others again
When I read this, a thread of thought ran through my head and I must apologize ahead of time here but it's been a really, really, long day and I'm super tired.
The first thing that crossed my wind when I read this, 81, was, "Is he allowed to drive the bus?" The next thing that crossed my mind was the R.E.M. song, "Driver Eight".
I'm sorry, honestly!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
When I read this, a thread of thought ran through my head and I must apologize ahead of time here but it's been a really, really, long day and I'm super tired.
The first thing that crossed my wind when I read this, 81, was, "Is he allowed to drive the bus?" The next thing that crossed my mind was the R.E.M. song, "Driver Eight".
I'm sorry, honestly!
I was thinking of Dirty Frank!
HughFD, I think what he DID was monstrous. Literally. I do have some sympathy / empathy for its source.
And I really, really feel for the family of the victim. I try to imagine being in their place, and just can't.
What is this magical "treatment" that makes the Board certain that he won't murder and cannibalize another random stranger after only 4 years out of society?
Discuss, disagree and debate politely.
Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.
Paranoid schizophrenia yeah can bring violence but this is something else... primal.
The hideousness of this crime speaks for itself... this person must be under lock and key.
The nature of the disease allows the patient to relapse without meds, even with, this factor
mixed with his very violent dangerous side is a lethal equation, one that should not have
freedoms of any kind added.
You may not have a problem in this case or any but I see it as tempting a most horrible fate
when it comes to this man.
Because you know better than the qualified doctors and psychologists who've been treating him for the past four years, right?
Discuss, disagree and debate politely.
Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.
So.... if god 'speaks' to you and talks about the future/saving orphans in africa/converting (or killing) infidels - all is well - one is 'enlightened'. But if god 'speaks' to you and tells you the person next to you is an alien and you must kill him/her in order to protect others - one is a dangerous schitzo. Hmmmm..... And before anyone mentions it - of course I know the actions that may follow these 'conversations' could have very different consequences but I'm talking about having this 'conversation' in your head to start with. What is the difference (again - besides possible resulting actions)? Why does one type of conversation is seen as 'good' and the other as 'bad' - one being praised and the other requiring treatment and removal from society. Then again... who knows which is the correct conversation/what god really wants to talk about?
So.... if god 'speaks' to you and talks about the future/saving orphans in africa/converting (or killing) infidels - all is well - one is 'enlightened'. But if god 'speaks' to you and tells you the person next to you is an alien and you must kill him/her in order to protect others - one is a dangerous schitzo. Hmmmm..... And before anyone mentions it - of course I know the actions that may follow these 'conversations' could have very different consequences but I'm talking about having this 'conversation' in your head to start with. What is the difference (again - besides possible resulting actions)? Why does one type of conversation is seen as 'good' and the other as 'bad'. Then again... who knows which is the correct conversation/what god really wants to talk about?
Maybe it depends on what side of the bed 'God' got out of that morning.
Didn't 'God' tell Tony Blair to invade Iraq? Maybe he was having a bad hair day.
Do people seriously think this dude has any chance of rehabilitation (or even desreve it for that matter)? Fuk's sakes, man. Seriously? I don't give a shit how many doctors and social workers are clapping their hands and nodding approvingly at each other over the progress they think they have made with this fuking moron. He's beyond rehabilitation.
"Let them eat cake!" Out of touch with reality.
For every 'successful' rehabilitation, there are countless failures that have spawned pain and misery on people who were simply placed in harm's way by idiots with diplomas. What weight bears on the minds of enlightened social working know-it-alls, parole boards, and wet tissue wristed judges after they discover their missentenced, rehabilitated and released convict has gone and raped/killed/brutalized an innocent person/family?
Some people have it figured out: Canada is fucked up with how far we've gone to protect criminals' rights. Sadly, some posts on here reflect more empathy towards the creep instead of the proper amount of sensitivity to the poor chap who he turned into Mr. Potato Head.
So.... if god 'speaks' to you and talks about the future/saving orphans in africa/converting (or killing) infidels - all is well - one is 'enlightened'. But if god 'speaks' to you and tells you the person next to you is an alien and you must kill him/her in order to protect others - one is a dangerous schitzo. Hmmmm..... And before anyone mentions it - of course I know the actions that may follow these 'conversations' could have very different consequences but I'm talking about having this 'conversation' in your head to start with. What is the difference (again - besides possible resulting actions)? Why does one type of conversation is seen as 'good' and the other as 'bad'. Then again... who knows which is the correct conversation/what god really wants to talk about?
Maybe it depends on what side of the bed 'God' got out of that morning.
Didn't 'God' tell Tony Blair to invade Iraq? Maybe he was having a bad hair day.
He did... get rid of a 'bad' man to 'save' others. This sounds familiar.... :think:
i have read a little about this, and I am on the fence. Rehab seems possible, but Im not sure I would be too comfortable with loved ones getting exposed to this guy... of course there are sickos everywhere... it actually seems like they are doing the correct thing.
So, the guy he killed, does he get to be "reintroduced" to society now too?
Thank you for thinking of the victim, he and his family are all I can think of...
that and doing everything to insure this man will not have the opportunity to hurt others again.
i must publicly say that i, chadwick, love to pieces one mr. byrnzie. this frickin dude inspires me, changes my views, helps me see things differently and is a brave soul that i admire.
btw, i still think this head muncher is a lunatic and could be extremely dangerous. however, i am no psychiatric doctor, i have not, did not nor do i plan on attending a school of psychiatry. all that said, i am fully capable of making up my own mind on this bunk ass bullshit.
the friends and family of the man killed will suffer through mourning until the day they themselves die.
yes i believe the killer is a monster. in spite of all that, maybe just maybe he himself is a true victim of mental pain & suffering. which seems to be the case.
in spite of all that, maybe just maybe he himself is a true victim of mental pain & suffering. which seems to be the case.
Agree Chadwick. He is also a victim. Though, whilst he was not responsible for his actions at the time of the killing, as you say 'he' was a monster. A monster due to his illness which, with treatment over the years, is under control. He does realise this as well.
Again, we are not talking about releasing this man from the institution and leaving him on his own - just some short, supervised outings.
just curious and thinkin i'd do a what if scenario
what if this gentleman (the word gentleman being used lightly) has friends on the outside whom he communicates with, what if those pals stash alcohol, drugs, guns & bullets, and other weaponry around downtown whatever, canada for this gentleman to locate and use. just sayin.
this is how shit happens. it happens inside the walls of penitentiaries constantly; someone brings in weaponry and or drugs pretty much everyday of the week across the board in this coutry and other countries such as Canada, if it isn't happening then please explain all the drugs that are in the penal system today. yes even guards can be suckered into smuggling dope and other bullshit into a penitentiary
what if this dude has people wanting to help break him out of the mental institution? jump the guard and the hospital worker... easy as pie.
now i sit and wait for someone to say, chadwick, you are daydreaming in a bullshit hollywood film; please go take a nap, you gotta be tired
I'm pretty sure they'd be monitoring all communications.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think of the victims in all crime and their loved ones....
the suffering in this case immense I am sure.
It seems others here disregard them and that.
I know about mental illness first hand ...
it's not nor ever was curable only controllable.
It would be very dangerous to think anything otherwise especially in this case
and controllable just isn't good enough.
Lock and key!
you seem to believe that no one is thinking of the victims which is not the case. the issue boils down to the fact that this person is also a victim. he is a mental health victim. Yes mental health is not curable but it is treatable. I don't doubt for a second that these doctors have supervised him for a very long time and I will also not doubt that they feel that he is safe to be outside with supervision.
Four years :? ...
fours years is yesterday.
And no I have not seen many speak on behalf of the poor victims here,
not as they deserve, surely.
I have touched on why I believe I would not trust doctors to make calls like this in other posts
in this thread, so I won't go over all that again.
This level of violence :fp: of course I say NO to freedom jaunts,
out of respect for the victim's family and the safety of society.
Who said he got his freedom or will ever have his freedom...a supervised half out of the institution is still miles away from release.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
So, the guy he killed, does he get to be "reintroduced" to society now too?
Thank you for thinking of the victim, he and his family are all I can think of...
that and doing everything to insure this man will not have the opportunity to hurt others again.
Before this thread all yo could think of was the victoms family...right?
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
someone who chooses to drink and drive and then goes and kills someone is ok to be reintroduced into society ... despite all the awareness of the dangers drinking and driving causes ...
while someone who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia which caused him to kill someone and had absolutely no control of his actions and did not choose to have this mental illness is not?
family, friends, etc of victims all mourn the same way ... the victims in the above scenarios are both dead ... the difference is the drunk driver knew he was doing something risky and did it anyways while vince li had absolutely no control of his actions nor did he choose to have this illness ...
Comments
fours years is yesterday.
And no I have not seen many speak on behalf of the poor victims here,
not as they deserve, surely.
I have touched on why I believe I would not trust doctors to make calls like this in other posts
in this thread, so I won't go over all that again.
This level of violence :fp: of course I say NO to freedom jaunts,
out of respect for the victim's family and the safety of society.
No one here or anyone that I have talked to about this case has not said that what this person did was good. Infact everyone was horrified by what happen. but the main issue is that we have rules in place that says that if a person is found to not be able to understand what they did that it would be cruel and unusual punishment to put this person in prison. This person had/has major mental health issue but our courts understand that people with mental health issues can live a normal life.
was shocked. That though is not showing respect for the victim or his loved ones.
and yes they can but without the possibility of ever hurting others again
in my opinion
is he allowed to take the bus?
When I read this, a thread of thought ran through my head and I must apologize ahead of time here but it's been a really, really, long day and I'm super tired.
The first thing that crossed my wind when I read this, 81, was, "Is he allowed to drive the bus?" The next thing that crossed my mind was the R.E.M. song, "Driver Eight".
I'm sorry, honestly!
good god.
and I never took offense to the Canadian angle of this. I took offense at mental illness being portrayed as monstrous.
so much ignorance still resides in this world.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
HughFD, I think what he DID was monstrous. Literally. I do have some sympathy / empathy for its source.
And I really, really feel for the family of the victim. I try to imagine being in their place, and just can't.
this is the key. making that distinction.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
L.S.D? :think:
Discuss, disagree and debate politely.
Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Because you know better than the qualified doctors and psychologists who've been treating him for the past four years, right?
Discuss, disagree and debate politely.
Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.
Maybe it depends on what side of the bed 'God' got out of that morning.
Didn't 'God' tell Tony Blair to invade Iraq? Maybe he was having a bad hair day.
Do people seriously think this dude has any chance of rehabilitation (or even desreve it for that matter)? Fuk's sakes, man. Seriously? I don't give a shit how many doctors and social workers are clapping their hands and nodding approvingly at each other over the progress they think they have made with this fuking moron. He's beyond rehabilitation.
"Let them eat cake!" Out of touch with reality.
For every 'successful' rehabilitation, there are countless failures that have spawned pain and misery on people who were simply placed in harm's way by idiots with diplomas. What weight bears on the minds of enlightened social working know-it-alls, parole boards, and wet tissue wristed judges after they discover their missentenced, rehabilitated and released convict has gone and raped/killed/brutalized an innocent person/family?
Some people have it figured out: Canada is fucked up with how far we've gone to protect criminals' rights. Sadly, some posts on here reflect more empathy towards the creep instead of the proper amount of sensitivity to the poor chap who he turned into Mr. Potato Head.
He did... get rid of a 'bad' man to 'save' others. This sounds familiar.... :think:
that and doing everything to insure this man will not have the opportunity to hurt others again.
btw, i still think this head muncher is a lunatic and could be extremely dangerous. however, i am no psychiatric doctor, i have not, did not nor do i plan on attending a school of psychiatry. all that said, i am fully capable of making up my own mind on this bunk ass bullshit.
the friends and family of the man killed will suffer through mourning until the day they themselves die.
yes i believe the killer is a monster. in spite of all that, maybe just maybe he himself is a true victim of mental pain & suffering. which seems to be the case.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Agree Agree Chadwick. He is also a victim. Though, whilst he was not responsible for his actions at the time of the killing, as you say 'he' was a monster. A monster due to his illness which, with treatment over the years, is under control. He does realise this as well.
Again, we are not talking about releasing this man from the institution and leaving him on his own - just some short, supervised outings.
I'm pretty sure they'd be monitoring all communications.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Who said he got his freedom or will ever have his freedom...a supervised half out of the institution is still miles away from release.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
only in Chicago.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Before this thread all yo could think of was the victoms family...right?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
let me get this straight:
someone who chooses to drink and drive and then goes and kills someone is ok to be reintroduced into society ... despite all the awareness of the dangers drinking and driving causes ...
while someone who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia which caused him to kill someone and had absolutely no control of his actions and did not choose to have this mental illness is not?
family, friends, etc of victims all mourn the same way ... the victims in the above scenarios are both dead ... the difference is the drunk driver knew he was doing something risky and did it anyways while vince li had absolutely no control of his actions nor did he choose to have this illness ...