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Greyhound Bus Cannibal rehabilitated after 4 years?
Bronx Bombers
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WINNIPEG, Manitoba - A man who beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in Canada won his bid to leave the grounds of the mental hospital where he is being kept, a criminal review board ruled Thursday.
The Criminal Code review board said Vince Li's treatment team may grant him short escorted trips into the central Canadian city of Selkirk, Manitoba. The review board said the passes will start at 30 minutes and increase incrementally to a maximum of full days.
Li was found not criminally responsible for the July 2008 death of Tim McLean, a young carnival worker who was sitting next to Li on a bus near Portage la Prairie.
The board said the passes should only be granted if Li's treatment team believes his condition is stable and that it would be "appropriate and safe for him to leave the locked ward." He will have to be escorted at all times by a staff member and a security officer.
"It's terrible. It's disgusting," Nadine McLean, the victim's stepmother, said Thursday after she learned about the decision. "It's kind of a waste going to the review board every year when he's going to get whatever he asks for."
Carol DeDelley, the victim's mother, also called it unacceptable and vowed to continue her efforts to fight the law dealing with people found not criminally responsible.
"My son died this way to shed light on the issue," DeDelley told reporters. "I'm not stigmatizing mental issues. If he's doing well in a controlled environment with regularly administrated medications leave him there ... but freedom for him? I don't think that should ever be an option."
The passes can be issued starting May 24.
Li was initially confined to a locked wing of the Selkirk Mental Health Centre, but in 2010 was given the right to escorted walks on the hospital grounds.
Li's psychiatrist said the 44-year-old has responded well to treatment and asked the review board earlier this week to let Li take trips into town.
McLean had his eyes closed and was listening to music on his headphones when Li, a stranger who was sitting beside him, suddenly stood up and started stabbing him. As the bus stopped and horrified passengers fled, Li carved up McLean's body and ate portions of it.
A judge was was told at Li's trial four years ago that Li was an untreated schizophrenic.
As part of this year's review, Li's psychiatrist, Dr. Steven Kremer, described Li as a model patient, who has shown no security risks and who has participated in treatment programs and taken up odd jobs at the hospital.
Justice Minister Rob Nicholson announced he asked officials to review the Criminal Code section dealing with people found not criminally responsible. He said public safety must come first.
Li emigrated from China in 2001 and worked menial jobs in Canada.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z1vE6O7dG4
This is a disgrace, how is this possible?
The Criminal Code review board said Vince Li's treatment team may grant him short escorted trips into the central Canadian city of Selkirk, Manitoba. The review board said the passes will start at 30 minutes and increase incrementally to a maximum of full days.
Li was found not criminally responsible for the July 2008 death of Tim McLean, a young carnival worker who was sitting next to Li on a bus near Portage la Prairie.
The board said the passes should only be granted if Li's treatment team believes his condition is stable and that it would be "appropriate and safe for him to leave the locked ward." He will have to be escorted at all times by a staff member and a security officer.
"It's terrible. It's disgusting," Nadine McLean, the victim's stepmother, said Thursday after she learned about the decision. "It's kind of a waste going to the review board every year when he's going to get whatever he asks for."
Carol DeDelley, the victim's mother, also called it unacceptable and vowed to continue her efforts to fight the law dealing with people found not criminally responsible.
"My son died this way to shed light on the issue," DeDelley told reporters. "I'm not stigmatizing mental issues. If he's doing well in a controlled environment with regularly administrated medications leave him there ... but freedom for him? I don't think that should ever be an option."
The passes can be issued starting May 24.
Li was initially confined to a locked wing of the Selkirk Mental Health Centre, but in 2010 was given the right to escorted walks on the hospital grounds.
Li's psychiatrist said the 44-year-old has responded well to treatment and asked the review board earlier this week to let Li take trips into town.
McLean had his eyes closed and was listening to music on his headphones when Li, a stranger who was sitting beside him, suddenly stood up and started stabbing him. As the bus stopped and horrified passengers fled, Li carved up McLean's body and ate portions of it.
A judge was was told at Li's trial four years ago that Li was an untreated schizophrenic.
As part of this year's review, Li's psychiatrist, Dr. Steven Kremer, described Li as a model patient, who has shown no security risks and who has participated in treatment programs and taken up odd jobs at the hospital.
Justice Minister Rob Nicholson announced he asked officials to review the Criminal Code section dealing with people found not criminally responsible. He said public safety must come first.
Li emigrated from China in 2001 and worked menial jobs in Canada.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z1vE6O7dG4
This is a disgrace, how is this possible?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
the justice system may not be great but i don't see this as being inconsistent with how it's framed
The masses must protest him being able to leave that facility, that is as crazy as what he did!
Can anyone say Hannibal ... :shock: shocking
Sometimes I think these docs have huge egos or something
they need to keep the vision of what he did to another human being
in their minds at all times ...
cause cure is fragile if not nonexistent.
Lock and key lock and key
the force it takes to remove a head is incredible i'd think.
that maniac deserves to be put to death. simple dimple pimple.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
sick fucker has zero right to walk freely in downtown whatever, canada
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
i'm no expert on schizophrenia but i don't find it a stretch to think that the paranoia could lead to something like that ... my understanding also is that there is treatment for that illness ... there are two parts to this i suppose:
1. is he likely to reoffend while on escorted visits?
2. does he deserve to see the light of day?
personally, if the courts ruled that he remain in a mental institution for the rest of his life - i would be somewhat indifferent to that ... but if they feel that he was criminally not responsible and that the treatment he receives ultimately allows him to either enter or partake in society - so be it ... i know many people will be upset by this but it's the nature of our justice system and I don't really see this particular aspect a problem ...
and maybe he is the grandest of evil manipulators waiting ... waiting
I know schizophrenia pretty well this is more than just that.
we, as a country, do not believe in capital punishment ...
i know several schizophrenia foks. i could not ever in a billion years ever imagine themn doing this
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
then allow this maniac to walk downtown
good luck, sir & all of canada
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
The hideousness of this crime speaks for itself... this person must be under lock and key.
The nature of the disease allows the patient to relapse without meds, even with, this factor
mixed with his very violent dangerous side is a lethal equation, one that should not have
freedoms of any kind added.
You may not have a problem in this case or any but I see it as tempting a most horrible fate
when it comes to this man.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Hey if the guy is cured the doctor should take him on a picnic with his own family to celebrate.
and.............................
...it doesn't mean they should breathe
once they have done some very violent monsterous act(s)
removing a dude's head on a greyhound bus and eating his flesh is beyond help in my book. to me this kinda action is evil. the guy should be put in a wooden box and placed in a dark cold hole in the ground.
but that's just me. i believe in love, kindness and peace. and i believe society should be safe from evil. society is not safe with this dude breathing let alone walking freely downtown.
as someone above said... the dr. and his family should have this maniac over for a picnic
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
so ... what about drunk drivers that kill people?
Doctors, its almost like they have their Frankenstein, they created, they cured,
they might even be so blinded by ego that they would go on a picnic! :?
I think a bond grows and one of sympathy, which has no place in the safety of society.
Some minds are uncanny... we don't understand the power there or where
exactly it comes from. More of this man's childhood and story should be known,
not for understanding but as a warning. Sick or otherwise, sympathy I have is for the victims
and I want no more at his hands.
should never walk free again.
And have you seen his eyes? His smirks says much about how he really feels
about his society or mine. He is a predator of mankind.
I hope he is not in our headlines 25 years from now
because that blood will be on the hands of Norway. We have a responsibility to each other.
This is what I feel about paranoid schizophrenia at this horrific level.
Lock and key.
I can picture it now his wife asks this nut hey could you help me with this head of lettuce?
I know you didn't ask me but I'll take a stab at this... sorry Bronx brought out
my dark humor
I can not see how one can compare a maniac to someone who drinks and drives,
the leap there is too far for me to even compare.
I am not pro death penalty either I am a lock and key person.
Would I like to see those who drink and drive get help for their illness
not just dumped in a prison to learn and be branded the rest of their lives,
yes I would, but unfortunately they are guilty of a crime and their justice is jail time.
An eye for an eye does not improve your society. Taking your justice system down the path of revenge makes your country more dangerous, not less, at a greater financial cost to taxpayers. The only thing it accomplishes is to satisfy the bloodlust so many seem to feel. I swear there is a segment of western society who would relish public executions....being able to stand around and cheer death like they did in the dark ages, or do in some of the 'savage' countries those same people like to be so critical of.
As polaris said, if a team of doctors has determined this guy to not be criminally responsible for his actions, and that he is safe to be allowed escorted passes, so be it. What good does it do the doctors or their egos to be leniant in this?
This is from the Canadian government website...
http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/res/cor/s ... 1-eng.aspx
Question
Does punishment of offenders reduce their re-offending?
Background
In the mid-1970s, there was a noticeable shift in criminal justice policy in the United States, and less markedly in Canada. Emphasis was directed away from offender rehabilitation programming toward punishment in order to control recidivistic crime. The use of incarceration increased substantially in many jurisdictions and sentences of imprisonment became longer. In addition to the increased use of incarceration, the last 25 years saw an explosion in the use of intermediate sanctions.
Intermediate sanctions represent a range of punishments falling between traditional probation and imprisonment. They include intensive probation supervision, electronic monitoring, boot camps and short periods of incarceration followed by intensive surveillance in the community ("shock incarceration"). Underlying these punitive approaches to criminal behaviour is the belief that criminal justice sanctions will deter offenders from re-offending.
Method
A meta-analytic review of the literature on the effects of criminal justice sanctions on recidivism was conducted. Meta-analysis provides a quantitative synthesis of the research literature and this method is widely regarded as superior to the more traditional narrative literature review.
The literature search identified 111 studies that examined the association between various criminal justice punishments and recidivism. Over 442,000 offenders were involved in these studies. The review included studies of imprisonment and intermediate sanctions. Noteworthy in the review were analyses of the findings with different types of offenders (e.g., juveniles, women, minorities).
Answer
The overall findings showed that harsher criminal justice sanctions had no deterrent effect on recidivism. On the contrary, punishment produced a slight (3%) increase in recidivism. These findings were consistent across subgroups of offenders (adult/youth, male/female, white/minority).
Compared to community sanctions, imprisonment was associated with an increase in recidivism. Further analysis of the incarceration studies found that longer sentences were associated with higher recidivism rates. Short sentences (less than six months) had no effect on recidivism but sentences of more than two years had an average increase in recidivism of seven per cent.
Intermediate sanctions demonstrated no relationship with recidivism. This category included studies of intensive supervision, fines, boot camps, electronic monitoring, scared straight, drug testing and restitution. Once again, no differential effects were found with respect to age group, gender and race.
Policy implications
Criminal justice policies that are based on the belief that "getting tough" on crime will reduce recidivism are without empirical support. Imprisonment and other criminal justice sanctions should be used for purposes other than reducing re-offending (e.g., incapacitation of dangerous offenders, denunciation of prohibited behaviour).
The lack of suppression effects across different offender groups indicates that applying sanctions selectively to specific groups is without merit. For example, imprisonment and intermediate sanctions were no more effective in reducing recidivism among youthful offenders than with adult offenders.
The ineffectiveness of punishment strategies to reduce recidivism further strengthens the need to direct resources to alternative approaches that are supported by evidence. Research based offender rehabilitation programs offer such a viable alternative for reducing recidivism.
it is possible in some states to get life but rare and yes some states appear lenient
so a person who kills someone by drinking and driving has an illness and a person who has a mental health issue should be locked up for life. I know many people with mental health issues and with medication they can be a part of society such like someone who has a drinking problem.
:fp:
I are not generalizing I am speaking of this killers case.
I am not saying all people with mental illness should never be released
but in my opinion in the case of extremely violent crimes as this was
no one has the right to take a chance and put that killer anywhere
near potential victims again.
And my point is that society, the law, has justice for the drunk drivers, it is prison time.
Whether someone perceives alcoholism to be an illness or not this is what they get.
This the consequence for the decision to drive drunk and kill a person.
Agree. He committed this unthinkable act when he had not been diagnosed and not receiving treatment for his illness. I'm not sure whether one can qualify the nastiness of his act compared some others (say stabbing and burning the victim's body, etc.) as a schizophrenic mind does not have the same 'benchmarks' as the normal one. This man has a brain disorder and with proper treatment and supervision, he seems to be able to 'function' (within reason). With treatment, this man is not the one that committed the crime. As he did not seem to pose a security risk in the institution, he is being 'rehabilitated' into society - though in a VERY limited way.
What there are talking of here, are 'outings' supervised by two people (a member of staff and a security officer). At no time has the article mentioned anything about a permanent release.
There have been so many threads and posts on this forum regarding people having committed dreadful acts (for various reasons) saying all deserve a second chance, people change, there is rehabilitation, etc. I guess when the act committed offends our senses a bit too much, it isn't the case anymore?
Reading a number of other articles regarding Li, it would seem that he has responded extremely well to his holistic treatment and he is a 'transformed' man. Whilst I believe he is 'fine' in a supervised environment, ensuring he continues his treatments/takes his meds, I do believe that it would be irresponsible to ever let him out of the institution - too many mental patients with no support in the 'real world' do not continue treatment and forget to take their meds. But that doesn't mean he needs to be 'locked up with the key thrown away'.
Given Canada's laws, I'm with the mom on this. That poor woman, and her son.
To clarify - I don't think Li should be set free - the bolded text above sums up my feelings on that exactly.
My first post was meant to address people using vengeance, punishment, and prevention of recidivism as reasoning for harsher sentences. Not to excuse or minimize the crime, sympathize with the criminal, or make an appeal for him to be free someday.