exactly Godfather ... pull the trigger
no gun?...
what is the average person who is not one of The Avengers
going to do against a gun to their head?
What is the average concealed carry wannabe Avenger going to do about a gun to their head? Aside from get themself shot for sure, instead of possibly?
The thing with using a hand gun for self defense...you better draw first. Then you better shoot first. And i you manage both, you better be fucking right about what you think is happening...or there's a good chance you've made yourself a murderer. I would guess that much of the gun crime you people fear does not involve a plan to 'pull the trigger'; to harm or kill...bringing a second gun into the equation pretty much guarantees that the trigger is pulled, and someone doesn't walk away.
Why proliferate something that only increases the possibility of violence. Why all this business about guns? I don't get it. (And yes, I've been through and lived in some rough neighborhoods.)
Exactly. People talking about self-defense are a huge part of the problem. More people arming themselves for protection also means more criminals arming themselves to perform their crimes. It also makes the criminals more likely to draw and fire first. But the criminals have 'um' and we need to defend ourselves.....How many law-abiding, permit carrying gun owners get their guns stolen every year? I tried to look into this, but as Halifax2TheMax said, gun stats and record keeping in the US are shockingly inadequate....most of the stats I found were more than a decade old.
(from a 1997 National Institute of Justice study - https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt) o About 211,000 handguns and 382,000 long guns were
stolen in noncommercial thefts in 1994.
o Slightly more than half of all privately owned
firearms were stored unlocked; 16 percent of
firearms were stored unlocked and loaded.
(from a 1994 article in the Economist) thefts or losses of firearms do not have to be reported, so the recorded figure of 200,000 guns stolen each year is probably a large underestimate. Dealers are not even required to look through their records when the ATF calls them for help in tracing a gun used in a crime
According to a Justice Department survey, about 27% of felons buy their guns over the counter like anyone else; 31% get them from family and friends, most of whom will also have bought them routinely in a store; and 42% obtain them ``by other means'' - predominantly theft - from legal dealers or private owners. Almost every gun that ends up in the illegal street network starts its active life in the hands of a licensed dealer.
so much for responsible gun owners. More than half a million a year into the hands of criminals....
so much for turning the other cheek and having faith in humanity, eh god lovers?
for shit's sake, "pull the trigger"??? Kill the bad guys before they get you seems to be the mantra of the day around the train.
You can't tell me you're surprised. I've seen some of the 'god-lovers' here advocate a shotgun to the chest of drug dealers.
Get them before they get you. From the street to foreign policy. Paranoia will destroy ya...
Can anyone explain to me why the US is so much more violent, has so many more inmates, has so many more guns than any other wealthy western country?
The only reason I see to have a gun in my house, unless I took up hunting (which is not exactly my idea of an enjoyable way to spend my outdoors time), is for self defense in the event of a complete societal breakdown; total anarchy or revolution. I'm not stocking the shelter just yet. Even for recreation...if you just want to shoot targets or whatever, store a gun at a range, or rent one. Why allow something that could accidentally get an innocent person (family member?) killed, or stolen to be used in a crime, into your house?
And as for day-to-day self defense while I'm out for groceries, or something to keep under my pillow in case the boogeyman visits.....? ...I think Hugh and Cliff are right. These people are victims and pansies, and a big part of the problem.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
it's my opinion that those that feel the need to arm themselves and live in fear are already victims.
Walk the south side of Chicago then try and make the same obviously ignorant to reality statement.
Couldn't agree more and I would say a trip to Atlanta is in order
being prepared has nothing to do with fear...
do you own a fire extinguisher in your home? I do just in case, am I living in fear of a fire?
It is called protecting your loved ones, your home and your property.
Those living in lala land may find out what it is to be unprepared and know real fear.
Yes, and that mantra seems to be a nationwide state of mind. My belief is that this idea of "kill the bad guys" and other forms of violent thinking are things strongly engrained in our society.
Faith in humanity? I have hope for humanity, this is what God has given me.
Eyes wide open.
Watch the news, odds are in this life you will be a victim, that is the real world.
If you don't want to be prepared for that whatever....
if you want to forgive and enable robbers murders rapists with apathy, so be it.
Others want to not be a victim and fight back against those living as parasites
on humanity.
As far as society it is becoming more violent for many reasons....
and angry!
Choosing to own and carry or protect has much to do with the crime around you.
In many places within our country it is good common sense to do just that.
But then there are those in smaller towns talking crap that have no idea
the threat others live under. They only see what is good for them in their little
safe world.
so much for turning the other cheek and having faith in humanity, eh god lovers?
for shit's sake, "pull the trigger"??? Kill the bad guys before they get you seems to be the mantra of the day around the train.
us "God lovers" must be anoying you, you and the others can give your opinion on CWP or gun ownership in a million threads to come in a million ways but the fact still remains that we still have those rights given to us by God and our forefather's and the best part is....NOBODY WILL EVER TAKE IT AWAY because we are Americans and this counrty is full God Loving Honest and good people that know the importance of freedom and the rights we have as a God Loving free people and thats the bottom line.
Godfather.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Faith in humanity? I have hope for humanity, this is what God has given me.
Eyes wide open.
Watch the news, odds are in this life you will be a victim, that is the real world.
If you don't want to be prepared for that whatever....
if you want to forgive and enable robbers murders rapists with apathy, so be it.
Others want to not be a victim and fight back against those living as parasites
on humanity.
As far as society it is becoming more violent for many reasons....
and angry!
Choosing to own and carry or protect has much to do with the crime around you.
In many places within our country it is good common sense to do just that.
But then there are those in smaller towns talking crap that have no idea
the threat others live under. They only see what is good for them in their little
safe world.
Faith in humanity? I have hope for humanity, this is what God has given me.
Eyes wide open.
Watch the news, odds are in this life you will be a victim, that is the real world.
If you don't want to be prepared for that whatever....
if you want to forgive and enable robbers murders rapists with apathy, so be it.
Others want to not be a victim and fight back against those living as parasites
on humanity.
As far as society it is becoming more violent for many reasons....
and angry!
Choosing to own and carry or protect has much to do with the crime around you.
In many places within our country it is good common sense to do just that.
But then there are those in smaller towns talking crap that have no idea
the threat others live under. They only see what is good for them in their little
safe world.
Bravo.
I want to add I think some people don't know what it feels like to be helpless
at the hands of another, to be victimized in a most horrible way.
There is two things you can do after that,
you can break or you can fight back.
Once you look into the empty eyes of someone who cares
nothing for your suffering and you see that other side of humanity
you know without a doubt you must fight!
Never can you allow yourself to be hurt again nor any other human being
go through what you did.
So many here making light of crime, to me that pretty much says why we have it, we allow it.
It is cowardly to allow yourself and others to be victims every second of every day.
When all the good ban together and say no more is when real justice will prevail.
What is the average concealed carry wannabe Avenger going to do about a gun to their head? Aside from get themself shot for sure, instead of possibly?
The thing with using a hand gun for self defense...you better draw first. Then you better shoot first. And i you manage both, you better be fucking right about what you think is happening...or there's a good chance you've made yourself a murderer. I would guess that much of the gun crime you people fear does not involve a plan to 'pull the trigger'; to harm or kill...bringing a second gun into the equation pretty much guarantees that the trigger is pulled, and someone doesn't walk away.
you judge the person that decides to be proactive and protect themselves wtf
labeling them a "wannabe Avenger" what an attitude wonder how smart you'd be
staring down the barrel of a glock 22 more like begging and crying like a baby
like i heard here
so being a victim is ok with you great but some of us got more balls and good sense
people here aren't getting it cause you carry that doesn't mean you use
good decision has the gun there the same for if or when you decide you need
it or use it reminds me of a saying my dad said
don't go off half cocked i learned long ago never to do that
those who are against guns will invent and manipulate statistics to support why CC permits are bad
those who are for them will invent and manipulate statistics to support why they are good...
I don't believe it has ever been definitively shown or proven that it has an affect in either direction.
All we can do is look for correlations I suppose...CC permits are through the roof up and crime including violent crime are at historic lows. I would have to be an idiot to assume that CC permits are the sole reason for this, but I would also be an idiot to dismiss the idea that they are a factor. When no one can point to one thing that lowers or raises crime rates, all we can do is look for factors.
If you don't want to carry no one will make you, that is your choice. But why do people feel the need carry their way of life and force it on others when we are all less likely to be victims today than just about any other time?
Sad thing is we would all hear much more outrage if an innocent person was killed by accident by a CC permit holder than we heard about the young kid shot in the head while her brothers and sisters were all going to the closet they go to every time they hear gunfire in their neighborhoods...or the kid on his bike delivering food who was simply shot to death because some punk wanted his bike...yeah...we should focus our attention on the legal gun holders and not the asshole gangs that terrorize neighborhoods...I think I just thought of a good use of the NDAA provisions...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Anyone offering up an over/under on the number of Stand Your Ground shootings, brandishing/felony intimidation charges, drunken possession of a handgun charges, justifiable homicides, cop shoots drunk driver reaching for his wallet or "accidental" discharges there will be in Tampa during the convention? Any of you Brits have a line on this? You guys bet on everything.
are we starting at the norm for a weekend in Tampa?...I believe there will be ZERO increase in those things listed. I will take bets.
Although...now that I think about it...it is Florida...ALL BETS ARE OFF
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
it's my opinion that those that feel the need to arm themselves and live in fear are already victims.
Walk the south side of Chicago then try and make the same obviously ignorant to reality statement.
I live in Winnipeg. the murder and all around violence capital of Canada. my statement is not ignorant and I'm steeped in reality thank you. I don't believe carrying a loaded gun around with either help me or anyone around me.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
What is the average concealed carry wannabe Avenger going to do about a gun to their head? Aside from get themself shot for sure, instead of possibly?
The thing with using a hand gun for self defense...you better draw first. Then you better shoot first. And i you manage both, you better be fucking right about what you think is happening...or there's a good chance you've made yourself a murderer. I would guess that much of the gun crime you people fear does not involve a plan to 'pull the trigger'; to harm or kill...bringing a second gun into the equation pretty much guarantees that the trigger is pulled, and someone doesn't walk away.
you judge the person that decides to be proactive and protect themselves wtf
labeling them a "wannabe Avenger" what an attitude wonder how smart you'd be
staring down the barrel of a glock 22 more like begging and crying like a baby
like i heard here
so being a victim is ok with you great but some of us got more balls and good sense
people here aren't getting it cause you carry that doesn't mean you use
good decision has the gun there the same for if or when you decide you need
it or use it reminds me of a saying my dad said
don't go off half cocked i learned long ago never to do that
Too bad you didn't learn to use punctuation long ago, cause I lost you after the crying and begging part
I was playing on pandora's words:
what is the average person who is not one of The Avengers
going to do against a gun to their head?
...and I stand by what I said in the rest of the post. If I was staring down the barrel of a glock, I sure as fuck wouldn't be very smart in reaching for a gun, would I? That would probably negate any chance I had of getting out of the situation without getting shot. If I wasn't staring down the barrel of a glock, that would mean I would have to be 'proactive' and draw first, right? I would never do that. Sorry if you think that makes me less of a man :roll:
And why do gun proponents so often feel the need to talk in sound bytes? Like they're cast in some b-list Western? You're a victim, I've got balls...Staring into the eyes of the other side of humanity....fighting back....pulling the trigger....parasites on humanity....rights given to us by God....good band together/justice will prevail blah blah blah......so weak:
Yes, it's easy for me to make these statements because all Canadian cities are less dangerous than South Chicago, or parts of Atlanta. Why is that? There are other reasons...but I'd posit that it's mostly cause there are less guns.
Mike:
I don't see many other stats here, so I will assume you were referring to mine when you speak of 'manipulated' and 'invented' stats....
The stats I posted were outdated, but applicable to the years the studies were done. To me, they read like factual interpretations - the National Institute of Justice article in particular. Most of their data is found in the National Survey of Private Ownership of Firearms--NSPOF. Not sure what would lead you to believe the numbers were manipulated or invented. The NIJ study even goes into detail about how and why Defensive Gun Use statistics are difficult to ascertain, and usually inflated. As stated in the Economist article, the numbers for stolen firearms are likely lowballed cause they don't have to be reported (or at least didn't have to at the time, I can't speak to current law). So supposedly well-intentioned, law-abiding citizens are major contributors to putting guns in the hands of criminals.
so much for turning the other cheek and having faith in humanity, eh god lovers?
for shit's sake, "pull the trigger"??? Kill the bad guys before they get you seems to be the mantra of the day around the train.
us "God lovers" must be anoying you, you and the others can give your opinion on CWP or gun ownership in a million threads to come in a million ways but the fact still remains that we still have those rights given to us by God and our forefather's and the best part is....NOBODY WILL EVER TAKE IT AWAY because we are Americans and this counrty is full God Loving Honest and good people that know the importance of freedom and the rights we have as a God Loving free people and thats the bottom line.
Godfather.
you're not annoying me, I don't understand why you claim this and almost are proud of it. I simply think it's hypcritical. your friend there talks about nothing forgiveness and love and all that, but look at her posts, full of hate and anger and fear.
god didn't give you those rights. your government did 200 years ago because it was applicable at the time. I highly doubt that would have become law had they been able to see the cultural impact it would have in this place in time.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
as children my two brothers and i were not allowed to have toy guns of any sort. sure we made homemade wooden guns for fucking around with. we had real guns at an early age. i first got a bb gun in 1st grade. by 3rd grade i have a single shot 20 gauge shotgun for hunting. i went through dad's and (his dad) grandpa's hunting and severally strict gun safety regimen like none other. so yeah we were not allowed to touch and play with toy guns; we had very much the real deal.
next... i'll read the articale ...after my swim. enjoy your day, folks. out
it's my opinion that those that feel the need to arm themselves and live in fear are already victims.
Walk the south side of Chicago then try and make the same obviously ignorant to reality statement.
Couldn't agree more and I would say a trip to Atlanta is in order
being prepared has nothing to do with fear...
do you own a fire extinguisher in your home? I do just in case, am I living in fear of a fire?
It is called protecting your loved ones, your home and your property.
Those living in lala land may find out what it is to be unprepared and know real fear.
I knew someone was going to bring something like this up. a fire extinguisher DOES NOT have the possibility of harming oneself or others fatally. pretty big difference I'd say.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I want to add I think some people don't know what it feels like to be helpless
at the hands of another, to be victimized in a most horrible way.
There is two things you can do after that,
you can break or you can fight back.
Once you look into the empty eyes of someone who cares
nothing for your suffering and you see that other side of humanity
you know without a doubt you must fight!
Never can you allow yourself to be hurt again nor any other human being
go through what you did.
So many here making light of crime, to me that pretty much says why we have it, we allow it.
It is cowardly to allow yourself and others to be victims every second of every day.
When all the good ban together and say no more is when real justice will prevail.
so by NOT wanting to carry a weapon I'm a coward. :?
this post is in direct contradiction to your post about being prepared isn't born out of fear. I say this post is full of fear, maybe for good reason out of some experience, but still fearful.
and I don't see anyone making light of crime. we just choose not to participate in it.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Mike:
I don't see many other stats here, so I will assume you were referring to mine when you speak of 'manipulated' and 'invented' stats....
The stats I posted were outdated, but applicable to the years the studies were done. To me, they read like factual interpretations - the National Institute of Justice article in particular. Most of their data is found in the National Survey of Private Ownership of Firearms--NSPOF. Not sure what would lead you to believe the numbers were manipulated or invented. The NIJ study even goes into detail about how and why Defensive Gun Use statistics are difficult to ascertain, and usually inflated. As stated in the Economist article, the numbers for stolen firearms are likely lowballed cause they don't have to be reported (or at least didn't have to at the time, I can't speak to current law). So supposedly well-intentioned, law-abiding citizens are major contributors to putting guns in the hands of criminals.
I was referring to any stats that claim one way or the other that CC permits have an affect on crime. I wasn't referring to you specifically. It cannot be proven that it makes the world less safe, and it cannot be proven it makes it more safe. Until there good uniform measures we will never know...the site I linked to earlier was a count of all the deaths related to cc permit users who committed crimes with their weapons...there were 440 in the last 5 years. including the deaths of some peace officers...those are all tragic, but how many people were murdered, raped, or violently beaten in those same 5 years?
So again I will say this...If someone feels they should carry a weapon for reasons you don't know of, possibly victims of crimes in the case of my friends who carry, why on earth, if it cannot be proven that CC permits raise crime rates, should they not be able to?
I would venture to guess most people who carry would never want to pull their trigger in self defense...but that is me making assumptions that I have no real evidence of...kind of like assuming that most people who CC are cowboys...considering the violent crime rates continue to drop, couldn't one argue, through the same lack of evidence, that they are helping?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I knew someone was going to bring something like this up. a fire extinguisher DOES NOT have the possibility of harming oneself or others fatally. pretty big difference I'd say.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
I'm surprised by the posts here that seem to claim (correct me if I'm wrong) that carrying a gun makes us more safe. America is full of guns and full of violence. Places like Canada and France where there are fewer guns have lower incidences of violence and fewer prisons and prisoners (per capita). All this talk about carrying guns just precipitates more violent thinking and more violence. You say, "Try walking around such-and-such a town without a gun!" I say, "Move!" If your town is that messed up why aggravate the situation by adding more guns to the scene? Besides, most violent crime is domestic. Most murders are domestic. Afraid of getting shot? Get a divorce. The one thing I have seen no one here to is prove that violence does not precipitate more violence. I'm not even going to bother to provide the statistics. They're easy to find. America has too many guns, too many prisons and too much violence (especially domestic violence) and it's all connected.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
Oh, and another thing. I carry a concealed fire extinguisher so look out people!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Oh, and another thing. I carry a concealed fire extinguisher so look out people!
those things are dangerous...
I don't know how anyone could argue that it definitively makes us as a whole more safe... One could argue it makes them more safe...
also Brian you may be happy to hear that we are all more safefrom violent crime...rates are dropping...it seems like as we add more and more people to this country ... those that wish others harm just cannot keep up
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
also Brian you may be happy to hear that we are all more safe from violent crime...rates are dropping...it seems like as we add more and more people to this country ... those that wish others harm just cannot keep up
Oh I hope that is true! That's good to hear- I mean that crime rates are dropping, not that were adding more people to this country .
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
also Brian you may be happy to hear that we are all more safe from violent crime...rates are dropping...it seems like as we add more and more people to this country ... those that wish others harm just cannot keep up
Oh I hope that is true! That's good to hear- I mean that crime rates are dropping, not that were adding more people to this country .
it will show you both are happening...so you will be :arrow:
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
alright "Richard", I'll rephrase and state that its intended purpose is not to protect yourself by harming others. is that better?
ok. I just thought the story was too good (in a morbid way of course) to not share.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
so much for turning the other cheek and having faith in humanity, eh god lovers?
for shit's sake, "pull the trigger"??? Kill the bad guys before they get you seems to be the mantra of the day around the train.
us "God lovers" must be anoying you, you and the others can give your opinion on CWP or gun ownership in a million threads to come in a million ways but the fact still remains that we still have those rights given to us by God and our forefather's and the best part is....NOBODY WILL EVER TAKE IT AWAY because we are Americans and this counrty is full God Loving Honest and good people that know the importance of freedom and the rights we have as a God Loving free people and thats the bottom line.
Godfather.
you're not annoying me, I don't understand why you claim this and almost are proud of it. I simply think it's hypcritical. your friend there talks about nothing forgiveness and love and all that, but look at her posts, full of hate and anger and fear.
god didn't give you those rights. your government did 200 years ago because it was applicable at the time. I highly doubt that would have become law had they been able to see the cultural impact it would have in this place in time.
:think: o.k fair enuff, I'll say it this way, Jesus died for me and God gave me certin rights as a man.
200+ years ago thimes were much more at a boiling point with the war to gain our freedom from across the pond then there were land grants that sparked off some conflict,there was a slavery issue that was dividing our country and the rail roads were buying up as much land as possible and those that did not sell were greeted with violence and forced off their property or killed and thru it all gus were the great equlizer.
I just don't understand why our crime and violance is blamed on guns ? it's messed up people that cause the problem not the guns.
Comments
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The thing with using a hand gun for self defense...you better draw first. Then you better shoot first. And i you manage both, you better be fucking right about what you think is happening...or there's a good chance you've made yourself a murderer. I would guess that much of the gun crime you people fear does not involve a plan to 'pull the trigger'; to harm or kill...bringing a second gun into the equation pretty much guarantees that the trigger is pulled, and someone doesn't walk away.
Exactly. People talking about self-defense are a huge part of the problem. More people arming themselves for protection also means more criminals arming themselves to perform their crimes. It also makes the criminals more likely to draw and fire first. But the criminals have 'um' and we need to defend ourselves.....How many law-abiding, permit carrying gun owners get their guns stolen every year? I tried to look into this, but as Halifax2TheMax said, gun stats and record keeping in the US are shockingly inadequate....most of the stats I found were more than a decade old.
(from a 1997 National Institute of Justice study - https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt)
o About 211,000 handguns and 382,000 long guns were
stolen in noncommercial thefts in 1994.
o Slightly more than half of all privately owned
firearms were stored unlocked; 16 percent of
firearms were stored unlocked and loaded.
(from a 1994 article in the Economist)
thefts or losses of firearms do not have to be reported, so the recorded figure of 200,000 guns stolen each year is probably a large underestimate. Dealers are not even required to look through their records when the ATF calls them for help in tracing a gun used in a crime
According to a Justice Department survey, about 27% of felons buy their guns over the counter like anyone else; 31% get them from family and friends, most of whom will also have bought them routinely in a store; and 42% obtain them ``by other means'' - predominantly theft - from legal dealers or private owners. Almost every gun that ends up in the illegal street network starts its active life in the hands of a licensed dealer.
so much for responsible gun owners. More than half a million a year into the hands of criminals....
You can't tell me you're surprised. I've seen some of the 'god-lovers' here advocate a shotgun to the chest of drug dealers.
Get them before they get you. From the street to foreign policy. Paranoia will destroy ya...
Can anyone explain to me why the US is so much more violent, has so many more inmates, has so many more guns than any other wealthy western country?
The only reason I see to have a gun in my house, unless I took up hunting (which is not exactly my idea of an enjoyable way to spend my outdoors time), is for self defense in the event of a complete societal breakdown; total anarchy or revolution. I'm not stocking the shelter just yet. Even for recreation...if you just want to shoot targets or whatever, store a gun at a range, or rent one. Why allow something that could accidentally get an innocent person (family member?) killed, or stolen to be used in a crime, into your house?
And as for day-to-day self defense while I'm out for groceries, or something to keep under my pillow in case the boogeyman visits.....? ...I think Hugh and Cliff are right. These people are victims and pansies, and a big part of the problem.
YES! Another good point!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Walk the south side of Chicago then try and make the same obviously ignorant to reality statement.
being prepared has nothing to do with fear...
do you own a fire extinguisher in your home? I do just in case, am I living in fear of a fire?
It is called protecting your loved ones, your home and your property.
Those living in lala land may find out what it is to be unprepared and know real fear.
Eyes wide open.
Watch the news, odds are in this life you will be a victim, that is the real world.
If you don't want to be prepared for that whatever....
if you want to forgive and enable robbers murders rapists with apathy, so be it.
Others want to not be a victim and fight back against those living as parasites
on humanity.
As far as society it is becoming more violent for many reasons....
and angry!
Choosing to own and carry or protect has much to do with the crime around you.
In many places within our country it is good common sense to do just that.
But then there are those in smaller towns talking crap that have no idea
the threat others live under. They only see what is good for them in their little
safe world.
Godfather.
Bravo.
I want to add I think some people don't know what it feels like to be helpless
at the hands of another, to be victimized in a most horrible way.
There is two things you can do after that,
you can break or you can fight back.
Once you look into the empty eyes of someone who cares
nothing for your suffering and you see that other side of humanity
you know without a doubt you must fight!
Never can you allow yourself to be hurt again nor any other human being
go through what you did.
So many here making light of crime, to me that pretty much says why we have it,
we allow it.
It is cowardly to allow yourself and others to be victims every second of every day.
When all the good ban together and say no more is when real justice will prevail.
you judge the person that decides to be proactive and protect themselves wtf
labeling them a "wannabe Avenger" what an attitude wonder how smart you'd be
staring down the barrel of a glock 22 more like begging and crying like a baby
like i heard here
so being a victim is ok with you great but some of us got more balls and good sense
people here aren't getting it cause you carry that doesn't mean you use
good decision has the gun there the same for if or when you decide you need
it or use it reminds me of a saying my dad said
don't go off half cocked i learned long ago never to do that
those who are for them will invent and manipulate statistics to support why they are good...
I don't believe it has ever been definitively shown or proven that it has an affect in either direction.
All we can do is look for correlations I suppose...CC permits are through the roof up and crime including violent crime are at historic lows. I would have to be an idiot to assume that CC permits are the sole reason for this, but I would also be an idiot to dismiss the idea that they are a factor. When no one can point to one thing that lowers or raises crime rates, all we can do is look for factors.
If you don't want to carry no one will make you, that is your choice. But why do people feel the need carry their way of life and force it on others when we are all less likely to be victims today than just about any other time?
Sad thing is we would all hear much more outrage if an innocent person was killed by accident by a CC permit holder than we heard about the young kid shot in the head while her brothers and sisters were all going to the closet they go to every time they hear gunfire in their neighborhoods...or the kid on his bike delivering food who was simply shot to death because some punk wanted his bike...yeah...we should focus our attention on the legal gun holders and not the asshole gangs that terrorize neighborhoods...I think I just thought of a good use of the NDAA provisions...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
are we starting at the norm for a weekend in Tampa?...I believe there will be ZERO increase in those things listed. I will take bets.
Although...now that I think about it...it is Florida...ALL BETS ARE OFF
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I live in Winnipeg. the murder and all around violence capital of Canada. my statement is not ignorant and I'm steeped in reality thank you. I don't believe carrying a loaded gun around with either help me or anyone around me.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I was playing on pandora's words: ...and I stand by what I said in the rest of the post. If I was staring down the barrel of a glock, I sure as fuck wouldn't be very smart in reaching for a gun, would I? That would probably negate any chance I had of getting out of the situation without getting shot. If I wasn't staring down the barrel of a glock, that would mean I would have to be 'proactive' and draw first, right? I would never do that. Sorry if you think that makes me less of a man :roll:
And why do gun proponents so often feel the need to talk in sound bytes? Like they're cast in some b-list Western? You're a victim, I've got balls...Staring into the eyes of the other side of humanity....fighting back....pulling the trigger....parasites on humanity....rights given to us by God....good band together/justice will prevail blah blah blah......so weak:
Yes, it's easy for me to make these statements because all Canadian cities are less dangerous than South Chicago, or parts of Atlanta. Why is that? There are other reasons...but I'd posit that it's mostly cause there are less guns.
Mike:
I don't see many other stats here, so I will assume you were referring to mine when you speak of 'manipulated' and 'invented' stats....
The stats I posted were outdated, but applicable to the years the studies were done. To me, they read like factual interpretations - the National Institute of Justice article in particular. Most of their data is found in the National Survey of Private Ownership of Firearms--NSPOF. Not sure what would lead you to believe the numbers were manipulated or invented. The NIJ study even goes into detail about how and why Defensive Gun Use statistics are difficult to ascertain, and usually inflated. As stated in the Economist article, the numbers for stolen firearms are likely lowballed cause they don't have to be reported (or at least didn't have to at the time, I can't speak to current law). So supposedly well-intentioned, law-abiding citizens are major contributors to putting guns in the hands of criminals.
you're not annoying me, I don't understand why you claim this and almost are proud of it. I simply think it's hypcritical. your friend there talks about nothing forgiveness and love and all that, but look at her posts, full of hate and anger and fear.
god didn't give you those rights. your government did 200 years ago because it was applicable at the time. I highly doubt that would have become law had they been able to see the cultural impact it would have in this place in time.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
as children my two brothers and i were not allowed to have toy guns of any sort. sure we made homemade wooden guns for fucking around with. we had real guns at an early age. i first got a bb gun in 1st grade. by 3rd grade i have a single shot 20 gauge shotgun for hunting. i went through dad's and (his dad) grandpa's hunting and severally strict gun safety regimen like none other. so yeah we were not allowed to touch and play with toy guns; we had very much the real deal.
next... i'll read the articale
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I knew someone was going to bring something like this up. a fire extinguisher DOES NOT have the possibility of harming oneself or others fatally. pretty big difference I'd say.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
so by NOT wanting to carry a weapon I'm a coward. :?
this post is in direct contradiction to your post about being prepared isn't born out of fear. I say this post is full of fear, maybe for good reason out of some experience, but still fearful.
and I don't see anyone making light of crime. we just choose not to participate in it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I was referring to any stats that claim one way or the other that CC permits have an affect on crime. I wasn't referring to you specifically. It cannot be proven that it makes the world less safe, and it cannot be proven it makes it more safe. Until there good uniform measures we will never know...the site I linked to earlier was a count of all the deaths related to cc permit users who committed crimes with their weapons...there were 440 in the last 5 years. including the deaths of some peace officers...those are all tragic, but how many people were murdered, raped, or violently beaten in those same 5 years?
So again I will say this...If someone feels they should carry a weapon for reasons you don't know of, possibly victims of crimes in the case of my friends who carry, why on earth, if it cannot be proven that CC permits raise crime rates, should they not be able to?
I would venture to guess most people who carry would never want to pull their trigger in self defense...but that is me making assumptions that I have no real evidence of...kind of like assuming that most people who CC are cowboys...considering the violent crime rates continue to drop, couldn't one argue, through the same lack of evidence, that they are helping?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
again me being a dick but
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/workplace-acc ... d=10394717
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
those things are dangerous...
I don't know how anyone could argue that it definitively makes us as a whole more safe... One could argue it makes them more safe...
also Brian you may be happy to hear that we are all more safefrom violent crime...rates are dropping...it seems like as we add more and more people to this country ... those that wish others harm just cannot keep up
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Oh I hope that is true! That's good to hear- I mean that crime rates are dropping, not that were adding more people to this country
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
it will show you both are happening...so you will be
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
alright "Richard", I'll rephrase and state that its intended purpose is not to protect yourself by harming others. is that better?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
1) state?
2) political affiliation?
just curious.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
ok. I just thought the story was too good (in a morbid way of course) to not share.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
:think: o.k fair enuff, I'll say it this way, Jesus died for me and God gave me certin rights as a man.
200+ years ago thimes were much more at a boiling point with the war to gain our freedom from across the pond then there were land grants that sparked off some conflict,there was a slavery issue that was dividing our country and the rail roads were buying up as much land as possible and those that did not sell were greeted with violence and forced off their property or killed and thru it all gus were the great equlizer.
I just don't understand why our crime and violance is blamed on guns ? it's messed up people that cause the problem not the guns.
Godfather.
These links might help:
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... s-arrested
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... e-us-state
Peace.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©