Again, everyone is arguing the wrong thing here, in my opinion. We should all be upset about the stupid stand your ground law...that's what made Zimmerman not guilty. And we should be upset at the stupid, gang/thug/tough guy culture that rules most urban areas and lives especially strong in the African-american community.
Good points Cincy. I agree. I asked a few pages back - how would this case have been different a few short years ago, before the stand your ground law went into effect. Zimmerman wouldn't be at home right now trying to write chapter one.
George Zimmerman (the defense) used "Self Defense" not "stand your ground law".
It honestly seems that all these people that are doing the "complaining" about this trail, I am talking about most in this thread have not listened to or followed this case/trial and all and have relied on "their" media to spoon feed their information.
while his defense revolved around self defense, there is no question that stand your ground was brought up and was also central to many of the early proceedings. Some still believe it played a part, and allows for excessive force.
In fact, I think the defense was extremely smart to dance around the stand your ground because it is so controversial. they likely didnt want his case associated with a newer law that is questionable.
We can still discuss the questionable law here because although it wasnt central to the defense, it still exists and might have played a part to some degree.
It honestly seems that all these people that are doing the "complaining" about this trail, I am talking about most in this thread have not listened to or followed this case/trial and all and have relied on "their" media to spoon feed their information.
While i didnt have time to sit around and watch the entire trial, I did read the jury instructions, and it appears as you might be wrong:
"In an interview on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night, an anonymous juror said the panel that found George Zimmerman not guilty considered Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in its deliberations. Earlier reports suggested the notorious law that authorizes the unfettered use of deadly force in self-defense was not applied to the case, because Zimmerman’s lawyers opted not to request a Stand Your Ground hearing. But as ThinkProgress explained in a post earlier today, the jury instructions contained the law’s key provision and instructed jurors that self-defense meant Zimmerman was entitled to “stand his ground” with “no duty to retreat.”"
After asking the question of the judge about something related to the manslaughter spec, and the judge and both sides conferring, I wonder why the jury didn't respond to the judges subsequent question of specifics related to the juries manslaughter question?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The prosecution team was horrible. Their own key witnesses did the damage. And they ended up doing the equivilant of a hail mary pass on the last day in the form of asking for child abuse charges. They knew they were cooked.
And it's not like Zimmerman had the OJ defense team behind him.
Again, everyone is arguing the wrong thing here, in my opinion. We should all be upset about the stupid stand your ground law...that's what made Zimmerman not guilty. And we should be upset at the stupid, gang/thug/tough guy culture that rules most urban areas and lives especially strong in the African-american community.
Finally, a voice of reason amongst all the sillyness.
That this rule exists in the first place is crazy beyond belief.
Getting rid of "stand your ground law" does not get rid of "self defense"
Which is, if you have been paying attention, what the defense (GZ) used in this case/trial...
:thumbup:
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
if zimmerman was black and trayvon was white, he would have been immediately charged, tried, locked up, and the key thrown away.
the jury was looking for any possible excuse to acquit.
that would not have happened if the races were reversed.
If? :fp:
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I'm not sure if this was posted, but I read every one of the 46 911 calls that Zimmerman made and I stand by my initial assement of the man. I would NOT want him as my neighbor.
The man called 911 on a 7-9 year old BM (black male) for suspicious activity for god's sakes.
I think most Zimmerman supporters would be annoyed by this man if they stopped, read the call logs, and imagined having a disturbance called on them at 4pm in the afternoon. LOL
ETA:
This was my favorite:
43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Children “running and playing in the street”
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
in my day it was called sippin' drank. syrup in the bottom mixed in with big red or sprite. very tasty and a nice partner for a fat blunt.
And he also tried to buy a cigar for the blunt at the same time but the cashier would not sell it to him, so he had someone else buy it for him....go figure
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I'm not sure if this was posted, but I read every one of the 46 911 calls that Zimmerman made and I stand by my initial assement of the man. I would NOT want him as my neighbor.
The man called 911 on a 7-9 year old BM (black male) for suspicious activity for god's sakes.
I think most Zimmerman supporters would be annoyed by this man if they stopped, read the call logs, and imagined having a disturbance called on them at 4pm in the afternoon. LOL
ETA:
This was my favorite:
43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Children “running and playing in the street”
Again, what is your point, are you trying to make it about race?
Lets review a few things about George Zimmermans racisit past that caused him such hatred towards blacks.
1. He was raised in a racially integrated household. His great grandfather was Afro Peruvian.
2. He partnered with a black friend to start a business.
3. He and his wife mentored minority children for free.
4. Zimmerman led the inquiry into the official death of a black homeless man. Zimmerman pubicially critizied the Sanford Police Department for covering up the 2011 beating of the black homeless man by the son of a "white" Police officer. Which resulted in the resignation of then Sanford police chief Brian Tooley.
5. 20% of the residents of this gated community are black.
Maybe the reason why he was suspicious in the first place was because:
1. At least 8 burglaries from Nov 2010 thru Feb 2012 were committed by black men in the community, with dozens unreported.
It honestly seems that all these people that are doing the "complaining" about this trail, I am talking about most in this thread have not listened to or followed this case/trial and all and have relied on "their" media to spoon feed their information.
While i didnt have time to sit around and watch the entire trial, I did read the jury instructions, and it appears as you might be wrong:
"In an interview on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night, an anonymous juror said the panel that found George Zimmerman not guilty considered Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in its deliberations. Earlier reports suggested the notorious law that authorizes the unfettered use of deadly force in self-defense was not applied to the case, because Zimmerman’s lawyers opted not to request a Stand Your Ground hearing. But as ThinkProgress explained in a post earlier today, the jury instructions contained the law’s key provision and instructed jurors that self-defense meant Zimmerman was entitled to “stand his ground” with “no duty to retreat.”"
I am not wrong, the case presented by the defense (GZ) was Self Defense
I'm not sure if this was posted, but I read every one of the 46 911 calls that Zimmerman made and I stand by my initial assement of the man. I would NOT want him as my neighbor.
The man called 911 on a 7-9 year old BM (black male) for suspicious activity for god's sakes.
I think most Zimmerman supporters would be annoyed by this man if they stopped, read the call logs, and imagined having a disturbance called on them at 4pm in the afternoon. LOL
ETA:
This was my favorite:
43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Children “running and playing in the street”
Again, what is your point, are you trying to make it about race?
Lets review a few things about George Zimmermans racisit past that caused him such hatred towards blacks.
1. He was raised in a racially integrated household. His great grandfather was Afro Peruvian.
2. He partnered with a black friend to start a business.
3. He and his wife mentored minority children for free.
4. Zimmerman led the inquiry into the official death of a black homeless man. Zimmerman pubicially critizied the Sanford Police Department for covering up the 2011 beating of the black homeless man by the son of a "white" Police officer. Which resulted in the resignation of then Sanford police chief Brian Tooley.
5. 20% of the residents of this gated community are black.
Maybe the reason why he was suspicious in the first place was because:
1. At least 8 burglaries from Nov 2010 thru Feb 2012 were committed by black men in the community, with dozens unreported.
So again what is your point about him?
Well you assumed that I was talking about the BM part...I was reffering to the 7-9 year old part. Also he called the cops for what it seemed was kids playing in the street.
So my point is that Zimmerman supporters not only on this board but everywhere are supporting a POS. As a private person, based on the call logs, he and I would not get along well if we were in the same neighborhood. Like if he called the cops bc I left my garage door open, I'd be knocking on his door saying to mind his business. If called the cops becuase my kids were playing the street at 5PM, I'd tell him to get a life you friggin' loser.
I don't really have a point other than I don't like this guy and I laugh that some think he's a "concerned" citizen that got a bad wrap. Based on the call logs he looks for trouble.
Race not an issue.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
and to blow your sizzrup claim out of the water, do you even know what is in sizzrup? the active ingredient in sizzrup is cough syrup containing codeine. sizzrup is slang for syrup. they can flavor it with skittles or jolly ranchers, or whatever candy, but it has to have codeine cough syrup in it or it ain't "sizzrup". is there evidence that trayvon had cough syrup with codeine at the place where he was staying? is there evidence he was trying to get it if not, then you people need to stop spreading bullshit stereotypical nonsense. martin was not on trial. zimmerman the killer was on trial.
and to blow your "NO" evidence claim.
1. According to Trayvon Martin's own Facebook posts he had been using "lean" since at least June 2011.
2. June 27th 2011, Martin asks friend via Facebook "unow a connect for codien"
3. He tells his friend that "robitussin nd soda" could make "some fire ass lean". "I had it before" and wants "to make some more"
Next time you want to debate/discuss a case, especially one of this magnitude, you might want to know the actual facts, not just read whatever biased headlines "your news" feeds you. And quite attacking posters claiming their "spreading bullshit stereotypical nonsense."
I wish people like you didn't blindly following your political side on every subject.
Instead of discussing/debating this trial/case from your own formed opinion and forming your own conclusions you just "stuck" to your political side and let them do all the talking for you. And now look at how much you an idiot you look like by saying the things you do, when the evidence is so easily available if you actually did the research.
This is direct not only to you but several posters in this thread.
It honestly seems that all these people that are doing the "complaining" about this trail, I am talking about most in this thread have not listened to or followed this case/trial and all and have relied on "their" media to spoon feed their information.
While i didnt have time to sit around and watch the entire trial, I did read the jury instructions, and it appears as you might be wrong:
"In an interview on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night, an anonymous juror said the panel that found George Zimmerman not guilty considered Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in its deliberations. Earlier reports suggested the notorious law that authorizes the unfettered use of deadly force in self-defense was not applied to the case, because Zimmerman’s lawyers opted not to request a Stand Your Ground hearing. But as ThinkProgress explained in a post earlier today, the jury instructions contained the law’s key provision and instructed jurors that self-defense meant Zimmerman was entitled to “stand his ground” with “no duty to retreat.”"
I am not wrong, the case presented by the defense (GZ) was Self Defense
People "complaining" about the trial learned that the Stand your ground law definitely pertained to this case though. But yeah, you're right that Zimmerman's defense was self defense. My point is, we werent all spoon-fed by "our media..." this info about how stand your ground pertains to the case was put out there by several media sources directly showing the juror instructions. But you can try to equate misinformed media to our decisions regarding the case all you want, it may not be accurate though.
Cincy brought it up because it seems important to some. And a lot of people agree.
it doesn't mean that zimmerman was a racist ... it's a story about race because:
* would there have been an earlier arrest if martin was white
* would there have been as much media attention if martin was white
* would there be the outrage by members of the community/public if martin was white
* would sharpton/obama/jackson have gotten involved if martin was white
ultimately, as i have been saying for a while, issues of race have not been resolved in the american public ... the belief that is has been is only denial ... race plays a significant role in the daily happenings in america (and the rest of the world for that matter) ... amongst a myriad of issues ... this case is a story about what it means to be a young black male in america ...
Well you assumed that I was talking about the BM part...I was reffering to the 7-9 year old part. Also he called the cops for what it seemed was kids playing in the street.
So my point is that Zimmerman supporters not only on this board but everywhere are supporting a POS. As a private person, based on the call logs, he and I would not get along well if we were in the same neighborhood. Like if he called the cops bc I left my garage door open, I'd be knocking on his door saying to mind his business. If called the cops becuase my kids were playing the street at 5PM, I'd tell him to get a life you friggin' loser.
I don't really have a point other than I don't like this guy and I laugh that some think he's a "concerned" citizen that got a bad wrap. Based on the call logs he looks for trouble.
Race not an issue.
Here is what I don't get, and for some reason everybody is doing it.
Why do you care or why does it matter that you wouldn't like zimmerman as a neighbor? Why do you and other continue to focus on that?
I guess Ill be the first to say it, but;
I wouldn't want trayvon martin walking in my neighbor hood. And ill bring up the facts why i feel this way.
1. He previously and bragged about being in fights
2. when security guard searched his backpack he found women's ring and earring as well as a screw driver said to be used as a burglary tool.
3. Tested positive for marijuana after death/ had photos of himself using weed/ pictures of him growing weed.
Whether you like it or not, all three of these are illegal.
4. attempted to acquire a firearm illegal/ Had photographs of him holding a gun on twitter.
So again ill ask, why does it bother you so much that Zimmerman overreacted and called the cops a bunch of time and you try to draw conclusions of what kind of "character" he was from that, yet TM's actions don't get a peep?
Here is what I don't get, and for some reason everybody is doing it.
Why do you care or why does it matter that you wouldn't like zimmerman as a neighbor? Why do you and other continue to focus on that?
I guess Ill be the first to say it, but;
I wouldn't want trayvon martin walking in my neighbor hood. And ill bring up the facts why i feel this way.
1. He previously and bragged about being in fights
2. when security guard searched his backpack he found women's ring and earring as well as a screw driver said to be used as a burglary tool.
3. Tested positive for marijuana after death/ had photos of himself using weed/ pictures of him growing weed.
Whether you like it or not, all three of these are illegal.
4. attempted to acquire a firearm illegal/ Had photographs of him holding a gun on twitter.
So again ill ask, why does it bother you so much that Zimmerman overreacted and called the cops a bunch of time and you try to draw conclusions of what kind of "character" he was from that, yet TM's actions don't get a peep?
because zimmeman doesn't know those things ... all he knows is that he's a black kid with a hoodie on ... all the stuff you wrote about martin is irrelevant ... why did he continue to pursue this kid, which is an act of aggression, even tho he was told vehemently not to? ...
it doesn't mean that zimmerman was a racist ... it's a story about race because:
* would there have been an earlier arrest if martin was white
* would there have been as much media attention if martin was white
* would there be the outrage by members of the community/public if martin was white
* would sharpton/obama/jackson have gotten involved if martin was white
ultimately, as i have been saying for a while, issues of race have not been resolved in the american public ... the belief that is has been is only denial ... race plays a significant role in the daily happenings in america (and the rest of the world for that matter) ... amongst a myriad of issues ... this case is a story about what it means to be a young black male in america ...
Its a story about race because the MEDIA Wanted it to be about it. The media made up their own story and ran with it.
Ask yourself, why did the media:
1. Doctor zimmermans photo to make him more white?
2. Edit zimmermans 911 call to make it seem like he was a racisit.
3. Use Zimmermans mug shot and Trayon's smiling school boy photo?
4. CNN accusing zimmerman of using the word "coon"
5. Media describing zimmerman as "white"
6. Media then described zimmerman as "white Hispanic"
Who knows how things would have played out in your "scenarios" but we now know that if anybody other than a black person kills another black person, that, that person will be labeled as "white" and go through the American justice system as guilty until proven innocent with help from the media and the president.
1. He previously and bragged about being in fights
2. when security guard searched his backpack he found women's ring and earring as well as a screw driver said to be used as a burglary tool.
3. Tested positive for marijuana after death/ had photos of himself using weed/ pictures of him growing weed.
Whether you like it or not, all three of these are illegal.
4. attempted to acquire a firearm illegal/ Had photographs of him holding a gun on twitter.
So again ill ask, why does it bother you so much that Zimmerman overreacted and called the cops a bunch of time and you try to draw conclusions of what kind of "character" he was from that, yet TM's actions don't get a peep?
I'll take a crack at it.
1. I knew dozens of kids in high school that bragged about fights. So?
2. Screw driver "said" to be used as burglary tool? I hadnt heard this. Where's the info that Trayvon used a screwdriver to burglarize someone/something? was he convicted? I have a screwdriver in my car right now, and every now and then, you might find my wife's earrings in the cup holder. What am I guilty of?
3. I know a lot of people who smoke weed. there are pictures of Trayvon growing weed? This i did not know.
I also know a lot of people who go over the speed limit every day - also illegal.
4. I also didnt know he tried to get a firearm. That's not good.
To sum up, I'd rather not live next door to Trayvon OR Zimmerman. But I dont blame folks for saying they wouldnt want Zimemrman as a neighbor. He killed someone after making very poor decisions. I think a lot of people given the choice, would probably steer clear of the guy. And as Polaris said, none of those things you listed led to the decision Zimmerman made to pursue trayvon. But you make a good point about Trayvon's propensity to fight. That might have been a contributor to his death.
A lot of Trayvon's character flaws are similar to tons of kids that dont ever end up killing someone in their lifetime. So, the bottom line for me is, Zimmerman had it in him to make terrible decisions and kill someone. Trayvon is just a stupid kid. I'd pick trayvon as a neighbor over zimmerman any day.
Its a story about race because the MEDIA Wanted it to be about it. The media made up their own story and ran with it.
Ask yourself, why did the media:
1. Doctor zimmermans photo to make him more white?
2. Edit zimmermans 911 call to make it seem like he was a racisit.
3. Use Zimmermans mug shot and Trayon's smiling school boy photo?
4. CNN accusing zimmerman of using the word "coon"
5. Media describing zimmerman as "white"
6. Media then described zimmerman as "white Hispanic"
Who knows how things would have played out in your "scenarios" but we now know that if anybody other than a black person kills another black person, that, that person will be labeled as "white" and go through the American justice system as guilty until proven innocent with help from the media and the president.
the media is a reflection of our society ... if they made it about race it's only because that is what sells ... whether it is right or wrong is secondary to the fact that as a society - we ate it up that way ... it doesn't go that route if race wasn't an issue in america ...
do you think the election of barack obama is about race? ...
it doesn't mean that zimmerman was a racist ... it's a story about race because:
* would there have been an earlier arrest if martin was white
* would there have been as much media attention if martin was white
* would there be the outrage by members of the community/public if martin was white
* would sharpton/obama/jackson have gotten involved if martin was white
ultimately, as i have been saying for a while, issues of race have not been resolved in the american public ... the belief that is has been is only denial ... race plays a significant role in the daily happenings in america (and the rest of the world for that matter) ... amongst a myriad of issues ... this case is a story about what it means to be a young black male in america ...
Its a story about race because the MEDIA Wanted it to be about it. The media made up their own story and ran with it.
Ask yourself, why did the media:
1. Doctor zimmermans photo to make him more white?
2. Edit zimmermans 911 call to make it seem like he was a racisit.
3. Use Zimmermans mug shot and Trayon's smiling school boy photo?
4. CNN accusing zimmerman of using the word "coon"
5. Media describing zimmerman as "white"
6. Media then described zimmerman as "white Hispanic"
Who knows how things would have played out in your "scenarios" but we now know that if anybody other than a black person kills another black person, that, that person will be labeled as "white" and go through the American justice system as guilty until proven innocent with help from the media and the president.
Many of the mainstream media outlets certainly did butcher this thing in the early stages. It was really pathetic.
Here is what I don't get, and for some reason everybody is doing it.
Why do you care or why does it matter that you wouldn't like zimmerman as a neighbor? Why do you and other continue to focus on that?
I guess Ill be the first to say it, but;
I wouldn't want trayvon martin walking in my neighbor hood. And ill bring up the facts why i feel this way.
1. He previously and bragged about being in fights
2. when security guard searched his backpack he found women's ring and earring as well as a screw driver said to be used as a burglary tool.
3. Tested positive for marijuana after death/ had photos of himself using weed/ pictures of him growing weed.
Whether you like it or not, all three of these are illegal.
4. attempted to acquire a firearm illegal/ Had photographs of him holding a gun on twitter.
So again ill ask, why does it bother you so much that Zimmerman overreacted and called the cops a bunch of time and you try to draw conclusions of what kind of "character" he was from that, yet TM's actions don't get a peep?
because zimmeman doesn't know those things ... all he knows is that he's a black kid with a hoodie on ... all the stuff you wrote about martin is irrelevant ... why did he continue to pursue this kid, which is an act of aggression, even tho he was told vehemently not to? ...
LOL here we go again... Another lib that didn't follow the trial.
No he didn't know those things, but he did correctly assume the TM was on drugs, as that what was relayed to the dispatch and confirmed through the autopsy.
Zimmerman also know about the continual break in and burglaries from black people in the neighborhood, which again is supported by facts in the court.
The prosecution could not prove that zimmerman pursued TM. If you have that evidence please provide it.
What officer of the LAW and what LAW did zimmerman break by leaving his car?
Using words like "vehemently" and "agression" are nothing more than you making something a bigger issue than they really are and are doing the states tactic of rely on emotions.
Can you please link the audio tape of where zimmerman was "vehemently told not to" I haven't heard that version yet... Was it played in court?
it doesn't mean that zimmerman was a racist ... it's a story about race because:
* would there have been an earlier arrest if martin was white
* would there have been as much media attention if martin was white
* would there be the outrage by members of the community/public if martin was white
* would sharpton/obama/jackson have gotten involved if martin was white
ultimately, as i have been saying for a while, issues of race have not been resolved in the american public ... the belief that is has been is only denial ... race plays a significant role in the daily happenings in america (and the rest of the world for that matter) ... amongst a myriad of issues ... this case is a story about what it means to be a young black male in america ...
Its a story about race because the MEDIA Wanted it to be about it. The media made up their own story and ran with it.
Ask yourself, why did the media:
1. Doctor zimmermans photo to make him more white?
2. Edit zimmermans 911 call to make it seem like he was a racisit.
3. Use Zimmermans mug shot and Trayon's smiling school boy photo?
4. CNN accusing zimmerman of using the word "coon"
5. Media describing zimmerman as "white"
6. Media then described zimmerman as "white Hispanic"
Who knows how things would have played out in your "scenarios" but we now know that if anybody other than a black person kills another black person, that, that person will be labeled as "white" and go through the American justice system as guilty until proven innocent with help from the media and the president.
Many of the mainstream media outlets certainly did butcher this thing in the early stages. It was really pathetic.
Butcher???
I think the correct term is "witch-hunt"
1. He previously and bragged about being in fights
2. when security guard searched his backpack he found women's ring and earring as well as a screw driver said to be used as a burglary tool.
3. Tested positive for marijuana after death/ had photos of himself using weed/ pictures of him growing weed.
Whether you like it or not, all three of these are illegal.
4. attempted to acquire a firearm illegal/ Had photographs of him holding a gun on twitter.
So again ill ask, why does it bother you so much that Zimmerman overreacted and called the cops a bunch of time and you try to draw conclusions of what kind of "character" he was from that, yet TM's actions don't get a peep?
I'll take a crack at it.
1. I knew dozens of kids in high school that bragged about fights. So?
2. Screw driver "said" to be used as burglary tool? I hadnt heard this. Where's the info that Trayvon used a screwdriver to burglarize someone/something? was he convicted? I have a screwdriver in my car right now, and every now and then, you might find my wife's earrings in the cup holder. What am I guilty of?
3. I know a lot of people who smoke weed. there are pictures of Trayvon growing weed? This i did not know.
I also know a lot of people who go over the speed limit every day - also illegal.
4. I also didnt know he tried to get a firearm. That's not good.
To sum up, I'd rather not live next door to Trayvon OR Zimmerman. But I dont blame folks for saying they wouldnt want Zimemrman as a neighbor. He killed someone after making very poor decisions. I think a lot of people given the choice, would probably steer clear of the guy. And as Polaris said, none of those things you listed led to the decision Zimmerman made to pursue trayvon. But you make a good point about Trayvon's propensity to fight. That might have been a contributor to his death.
A lot of Trayvon's character flaws are similar to tons of kids that dont ever end up killing someone in their lifetime. So, the bottom line for me is, Zimmerman had it in him to make terrible decisions and kill someone. Trayvon is just a stupid kid. I'd pick trayvon as a neighbor over zimmerman any day.
You would pick someone who obtains guns illegally over someone who takes the time/pays for their CCW?
Yes, we know the defense didnt revolve their case around SYG, but it was obviously relevant to the case to some degree. And if you missed my post earlier, you can see that it was even outlined in the jury instructions.
So, no its not a stand your ground case of course. It was a murder case. (shouldve been a manslaughter case).
LOL here we go again... Another lib that didn't follow the trial.
No he didn't know those things, but he did correctly assume the TM was on drugs, as that what was relayed to the dispatch and confirmed through the autopsy.
Zimmerman also know about the continual break in and burglaries from black people in the neighborhood, which again is supported by facts in the court.
The prosecution could not prove that zimmerman pursued TM. If you have that evidence please provide it.
What officer of the LAW and what LAW did zimmerman break by leaving his car?
Using words like "vehemently" and "agression" are nothing more than you making something a bigger issue than they really are and are doing the states tactic of rely on emotions.
Can you please link the audio tape of where zimmerman was "vehemently told not to" I haven't heard that version yet... Was it played in court?
are you saying that there was no words telling him not to pursue martin? ... if so, i'll spend the time to look that up ... but if you are going to pick on the word vehemently ... then i'm not gonna waste my time ...
what does having smoked a joint have anything to do with this? ... if neighbourhood watch guys are meant to follow anyone that might have a smoked a j ... they have a lot of people to follow ...
where was he shot and where was his vehicle? ... if he was at his vehicle when the dispatcher told him to stop pursuit ... the fight should have been near the vehicle ...
Comments
while his defense revolved around self defense, there is no question that stand your ground was brought up and was also central to many of the early proceedings. Some still believe it played a part, and allows for excessive force.
In fact, I think the defense was extremely smart to dance around the stand your ground because it is so controversial. they likely didnt want his case associated with a newer law that is questionable.
We can still discuss the questionable law here because although it wasnt central to the defense, it still exists and might have played a part to some degree.
While i didnt have time to sit around and watch the entire trial, I did read the jury instructions, and it appears as you might be wrong:
"In an interview on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night, an anonymous juror said the panel that found George Zimmerman not guilty considered Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in its deliberations. Earlier reports suggested the notorious law that authorizes the unfettered use of deadly force in self-defense was not applied to the case, because Zimmerman’s lawyers opted not to request a Stand Your Ground hearing. But as ThinkProgress explained in a post earlier today, the jury instructions contained the law’s key provision and instructed jurors that self-defense meant Zimmerman was entitled to “stand his ground” with “no duty to retreat.”"
Now the doj wants to make it about race.
if zimmerman was black and trayvon was white, he would have been immediately charged, tried, locked up, and the key thrown away.
the jury was looking for any possible excuse to acquit.
that would not have happened if the races were reversed.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
And it's not like Zimmerman had the OJ defense team behind him.
:thumbup:
If? :fp:
I'm not sure if this was posted, but I read every one of the 46 911 calls that Zimmerman made and I stand by my initial assement of the man. I would NOT want him as my neighbor.
The man called 911 on a 7-9 year old BM (black male) for suspicious activity for god's sakes.
I think most Zimmerman supporters would be annoyed by this man if they stopped, read the call logs, and imagined having a disturbance called on them at 4pm in the afternoon. LOL
ETA:
This was my favorite:
43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Children “running and playing in the street”
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
And he also tried to buy a cigar for the blunt at the same time but the cashier would not sell it to him, so he had someone else buy it for him....go figure
Lets review a few things about George Zimmermans racisit past that caused him such hatred towards blacks.
1. He was raised in a racially integrated household. His great grandfather was Afro Peruvian.
2. He partnered with a black friend to start a business.
3. He and his wife mentored minority children for free.
4. Zimmerman led the inquiry into the official death of a black homeless man. Zimmerman pubicially critizied the Sanford Police Department for covering up the 2011 beating of the black homeless man by the son of a "white" Police officer. Which resulted in the resignation of then Sanford police chief Brian Tooley.
5. 20% of the residents of this gated community are black.
Maybe the reason why he was suspicious in the first place was because:
1. At least 8 burglaries from Nov 2010 thru Feb 2012 were committed by black men in the community, with dozens unreported.
So again what is your point about him?
Well you assumed that I was talking about the BM part...I was reffering to the 7-9 year old part. Also he called the cops for what it seemed was kids playing in the street.
So my point is that Zimmerman supporters not only on this board but everywhere are supporting a POS. As a private person, based on the call logs, he and I would not get along well if we were in the same neighborhood. Like if he called the cops bc I left my garage door open, I'd be knocking on his door saying to mind his business. If called the cops becuase my kids were playing the street at 5PM, I'd tell him to get a life you friggin' loser.
I don't really have a point other than I don't like this guy and I laugh that some think he's a "concerned" citizen that got a bad wrap. Based on the call logs he looks for trouble.
Race not an issue.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
1. According to Trayvon Martin's own Facebook posts he had been using "lean" since at least June 2011.
2. June 27th 2011, Martin asks friend via Facebook "unow a connect for codien"
3. He tells his friend that "robitussin nd soda" could make "some fire ass lean". "I had it before" and wants "to make some more"
Next time you want to debate/discuss a case, especially one of this magnitude, you might want to know the actual facts, not just read whatever biased headlines "your news" feeds you. And quite attacking posters claiming their "spreading bullshit stereotypical nonsense."
I wish people like you didn't blindly following your political side on every subject.
Instead of discussing/debating this trial/case from your own formed opinion and forming your own conclusions you just "stuck" to your political side and let them do all the talking for you. And now look at how much you an idiot you look like by saying the things you do, when the evidence is so easily available if you actually did the research.
This is direct not only to you but several posters in this thread.
People "complaining" about the trial learned that the Stand your ground law definitely pertained to this case though. But yeah, you're right that Zimmerman's defense was self defense. My point is, we werent all spoon-fed by "our media..." this info about how stand your ground pertains to the case was put out there by several media sources directly showing the juror instructions. But you can try to equate misinformed media to our decisions regarding the case all you want, it may not be accurate though.
Cincy brought it up because it seems important to some. And a lot of people agree.
it doesn't mean that zimmerman was a racist ... it's a story about race because:
* would there have been an earlier arrest if martin was white
* would there have been as much media attention if martin was white
* would there be the outrage by members of the community/public if martin was white
* would sharpton/obama/jackson have gotten involved if martin was white
ultimately, as i have been saying for a while, issues of race have not been resolved in the american public ... the belief that is has been is only denial ... race plays a significant role in the daily happenings in america (and the rest of the world for that matter) ... amongst a myriad of issues ... this case is a story about what it means to be a young black male in america ...
Why do you care or why does it matter that you wouldn't like zimmerman as a neighbor? Why do you and other continue to focus on that?
I guess Ill be the first to say it, but;
I wouldn't want trayvon martin walking in my neighbor hood. And ill bring up the facts why i feel this way.
1. He previously and bragged about being in fights
2. when security guard searched his backpack he found women's ring and earring as well as a screw driver said to be used as a burglary tool.
3. Tested positive for marijuana after death/ had photos of himself using weed/ pictures of him growing weed.
Whether you like it or not, all three of these are illegal.
4. attempted to acquire a firearm illegal/ Had photographs of him holding a gun on twitter.
So again ill ask, why does it bother you so much that Zimmerman overreacted and called the cops a bunch of time and you try to draw conclusions of what kind of "character" he was from that, yet TM's actions don't get a peep?
because zimmeman doesn't know those things ... all he knows is that he's a black kid with a hoodie on ... all the stuff you wrote about martin is irrelevant ... why did he continue to pursue this kid, which is an act of aggression, even tho he was told vehemently not to? ...
Ask yourself, why did the media:
1. Doctor zimmermans photo to make him more white?
2. Edit zimmermans 911 call to make it seem like he was a racisit.
3. Use Zimmermans mug shot and Trayon's smiling school boy photo?
4. CNN accusing zimmerman of using the word "coon"
5. Media describing zimmerman as "white"
6. Media then described zimmerman as "white Hispanic"
Who knows how things would have played out in your "scenarios" but we now know that if anybody other than a black person kills another black person, that, that person will be labeled as "white" and go through the American justice system as guilty until proven innocent with help from the media and the president.
I'll take a crack at it.
1. I knew dozens of kids in high school that bragged about fights. So?
2. Screw driver "said" to be used as burglary tool? I hadnt heard this. Where's the info that Trayvon used a screwdriver to burglarize someone/something? was he convicted? I have a screwdriver in my car right now, and every now and then, you might find my wife's earrings in the cup holder. What am I guilty of?
3. I know a lot of people who smoke weed. there are pictures of Trayvon growing weed? This i did not know.
I also know a lot of people who go over the speed limit every day - also illegal.
4. I also didnt know he tried to get a firearm. That's not good.
To sum up, I'd rather not live next door to Trayvon OR Zimmerman. But I dont blame folks for saying they wouldnt want Zimemrman as a neighbor. He killed someone after making very poor decisions. I think a lot of people given the choice, would probably steer clear of the guy. And as Polaris said, none of those things you listed led to the decision Zimmerman made to pursue trayvon. But you make a good point about Trayvon's propensity to fight. That might have been a contributor to his death.
A lot of Trayvon's character flaws are similar to tons of kids that dont ever end up killing someone in their lifetime. So, the bottom line for me is, Zimmerman had it in him to make terrible decisions and kill someone. Trayvon is just a stupid kid. I'd pick trayvon as a neighbor over zimmerman any day.
the media is a reflection of our society ... if they made it about race it's only because that is what sells ... whether it is right or wrong is secondary to the fact that as a society - we ate it up that way ... it doesn't go that route if race wasn't an issue in america ...
do you think the election of barack obama is about race? ...
Many of the mainstream media outlets certainly did butcher this thing in the early stages. It was really pathetic.
No he didn't know those things, but he did correctly assume the TM was on drugs, as that what was relayed to the dispatch and confirmed through the autopsy.
Zimmerman also know about the continual break in and burglaries from black people in the neighborhood, which again is supported by facts in the court.
The prosecution could not prove that zimmerman pursued TM. If you have that evidence please provide it.
What officer of the LAW and what LAW did zimmerman break by leaving his car?
Using words like "vehemently" and "agression" are nothing more than you making something a bigger issue than they really are and are doing the states tactic of rely on emotions.
Can you please link the audio tape of where zimmerman was "vehemently told not to" I haven't heard that version yet... Was it played in court?
I think the correct term is "witch-hunt"
Yes, we know the defense didnt revolve their case around SYG, but it was obviously relevant to the case to some degree. And if you missed my post earlier, you can see that it was even outlined in the jury instructions.
So, no its not a stand your ground case of course. It was a murder case. (shouldve been a manslaughter case).
are you saying that there was no words telling him not to pursue martin? ... if so, i'll spend the time to look that up ... but if you are going to pick on the word vehemently ... then i'm not gonna waste my time ...
what does having smoked a joint have anything to do with this? ... if neighbourhood watch guys are meant to follow anyone that might have a smoked a j ... they have a lot of people to follow ...
where was he shot and where was his vehicle? ... if he was at his vehicle when the dispatcher told him to stop pursuit ... the fight should have been near the vehicle ...